Thursday, 2008-12-04

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paulproteusBoy, life away from IRC is strange.00:30
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EvilGeniusanyone here?02:29
EvilGeniusneed info on skimming02:30
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greg-ginteresting, I had not heard of "skimming" before.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_card_fraud#Skimming05:20
greg-gpaulproteus: since I know you missed it due to your irc issues, someone wanted some info on skimming.05:21
greg-g(obviously)05:21
paulproteusgreg-g, Yo05:25
paulproteusgreg-g, Did you link them to the WP article?05:25
greg-gI didn't, they left a while ago05:26
paulproteusSorry to hear it!05:26
paulproteusAnyway, yeah, I know all about skimming.05:27
paulproteusThat's why I hang out on #cc.05:27
paulproteusI was just telling a family member about it over Thanksgiving.05:27
greg-gawesome, I didn't realize I could just ask you those questions.05:27
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paulproteusDo keep in mind I used to be a teenager.05:30
paulproteusThis fact seems obvious enough to me.05:30
greg-gHey, I was one of those too!05:31
paulproteusSure, and so obviously you surfed the web in IE4 reading about carding on astalavista.box.sk and Phrack too?05:32
paulproteusMan, IE4 was awesome.05:32
paulproteusOh, bedtime!05:33
greg-gI did use IE4 (and benefited from the payment for Netscape my Dad made a brick and motar store).05:33
greg-gindeed, sleep time.05:33
paulproteusThe only thing cooler than IE4 was Mozilla M18 loading the awesome shell transparent PNG demo.05:33
paulproteusAnyway, toodle-oo.05:33
greg-gtah tah05:33
paulproteusSee you bright and early, EST!05:33
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_kehello09:37
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fox572h12:18
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paulproteusMorning, all.13:49
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nkinkadepaulproteus: You you migrate all the users from the old Pootle to Mozootle?15:40
paulproteusnkinkade, I think so.15:40
nkinkadepaulproteus: Would you make my user an admin.15:41
paulproteusOkay.15:41
nkinkadeDo the config files still live at /etc/pootle?15:41
paulproteusNo, not at all.15:41
paulproteusLet me update the deployment page to say where they live.15:41
nkinkadeCool.15:41
paulproteushttp://teamspace.creativecommons.org/Pootle15:43
paulproteusI'll make you an admin now.15:43
paulproteusDid that not correctly import?15:43
paulproteusEr, I don't see in the UI how to make you an admin.15:45
nkinkadepaulproteus: I logged in, but I don't see any admin options, so I figured I wasn't one.15:45
paulproteusI agree with that assessment.15:45
nkinkadeHmm.  I can read the doc, then manually make myself an admin.15:45
paulproteusI can modify the SQL tables easily.15:46
paulproteusUser information is no longer in pootle.prefs, fwiw.15:46
nkinkadeOh yeah.15:46
* paulproteus asks the Mozootle lead on #pootle what the deal is, but doesn't expect an answer in the next few minutes15:46
nkinkadeI forgot about that.  How do you feel about that?15:46
* paulproteus shrugs15:47
paulproteusSeems reasonable to me.15:47
nkinkade(about db vs. text file.15:47
nkinkade)15:47
paulproteusI know we were arguing 6mo ago where I was saying "databases suck," but even for Herder we stored user data in a DB.15:47
nkinkadeIt seems slightly less error prone to me.15:47
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paulproteusTotally, this is better.15:47
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nkinkadeBut I think you pretty much convinced me that git was a better option for Herder.15:48
nkinkadepaulproteus: Did you modify the table, or shall I?15:48
paulproteusI haven't; I will now.15:49
paulproteusnkinkade, Okay, I think I did the right SQL command.15:51
paulproteusYou should now be a siteadmin, I think.15:51
paulproteusLet me know.15:51
paulproteusYou may need to log out or log in, or I may need (I hope not) to restart the PootleServer.15:51
nkinkadepaulproteus: Thanks.  I now seem to be an admin.15:56
paulproteusAwesome.15:57
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paulproteusnathany, First things first: In Fx 3 with the CC UI metadata viewer extension I see two Metadata panels in Page Info:16:17
paulproteusThey correspond to pageInfo.xul and pageInfo3.xul, which have the same contents.16:17
paulproteusWhy two...?16:17
paulproteusAKA, Safe to merge that down into only one extra panel?16:17
paulproteusActually, zeroth things first: Good morning!16:17
nathanypaulproteus: weird16:20
nathany(and good morning)16:20
nathanyI seem to remember creating the pageInfo3.xul thinking that we'd need different UI for Fx2 v 316:21
nathanyof course, with Mz dropping support for Fx 2, I don't feel too bad about just targeting 316:21
nathanyso yes, merging is probably reasonable16:21
paulproteusThat makes sense.16:22
paulproteusI was sitting here scratching my head expecting it to make no sense at all.16:23
nathanysorry :(16:23
paulproteusHeh, no worries. (-:16:23
paulproteusI'm happy to have some sense have been made.16:23
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paulproteusnathany, Okay, so now the UI works again.  Other than TODO, is there a bugs list, or should I start hunting for them?16:39
paulproteus(I've already found a few, presumably due to Fx 3 changes.)16:39
nathanypaulproteus: nothing beyond the TODO16:40
paulproteus(I'm currently testing on Fx 3; I'll try 3.1 after that works.)16:40
nathanywe should add it as a project to roundup presumably16:40
paulproteusWorks flawlessly, that is.16:40
paulproteusAgreed.16:40
paulproteusBTW, did you see the issues@ bounces?16:40
nathanynot sure16:42
nathanyjust now?16:42
paulproteusNot just now, ca. 2-3d ago.16:42
paulproteusI didn't investigate at all, but it looked like inbound emails to issues@ don't record issues because of some permissions thing.16:42
nathanythe "undelivered mail returned to sender"?16:42
nathanyhrm... the one i see does seem to indicate that a message was bounced because they didn't have an account16:43
nathanywe should probably allow "auto registration" if we're asking people to just email things to issues@16:43
nathanyright?16:43
nathanypaulproteus: ^^?16:45
paulproteusOkay, sure, makes sense to me.16:46
paulproteusI didn't actually read it practically at all, I admit.16:46
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nathanypaulproteus: actually it appears the email gateway was disabled (uh, oops?) and is still rejecting unknown email addresses (contrary to the docs)17:02
nathanyi'm emailing roundup-users now17:02
paulproteusExciting.17:02
nathanyActually i've been quite pleased with roundup17:03
nathany(and i was able to hack in the milestone to project relationship + YUI-fication pretty easily)17:03
paulproteusYay!17:07
paulproteusYeah, Roundup has been a gentle thing to live with.17:08
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nkinkadenathany: Did you already resent that invite, or can I do it now?17:20
nathanynkinkade: I didn't send it... you can go ahead17:22
nkinkadeDone.17:23
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nathanypaulproteus: have you and nkinkade successfully used ekiga for voice calls?17:33
paulproteusNow'd be a good time for me to try.17:33
paulproteusBut not yet.17:33
paulproteusI've used it with other people though.17:33
nathanyi'm curious about both using it for voice and about recording the call (for basic podcasting)17:34
tonyb486mumble17:34
paulproteusI think for podcasting I'd use parecord.17:34
tonyb486mumble.sf.net is win17:34
nkinkadeI'm game to try it out any time.17:34
tonyb486its like teamspeak but without the fail17:34
paulproteus(BTW, by means of introduction, I know tonyb486 from #freeculture, where he's a frequent and excellent web team contributor.)17:35
tonyb486:D17:35
nathanypaulproteus: do you have a link for parecord?17:35
tonyb486hi17:35
nathanygoogling doesn't seem to quite do it17:36
paulproteusHmm, let me see.17:36
paulproteusparec instead.17:36
nkinkadeThere appears to be some connection between Gmail [Apps] and Rythmbox streaming an Internet radio station.17:36
nathanyoh, it's part of pulseaudio17:37
nathanynkinkade: huh?17:37
nkinkadeGoogle Apps is generally slow, but when frequently when it's loading a folder (tag) and says simply "Loading", the radio will stop playing.17:37
nathanyinteresting17:37
nathanybackground ajax-stuff?17:37
nkinkadeI don't notice this with any other web page or Internet application.17:38
nathanyi've also found that i can speed it up (weirdly) by going over https17:38
nathanyanyway, i need to do some writing17:38
nathanyi'll come back in 30 or so and maybe we can try ekiga stuff?17:38
nkinkadenathany: Did you use that pluging to force HTTPS?17:38
nkinkadeOr is there a setting now?17:38
paulproteusThere's a setting now I understand.17:38
paulproteusMy grandmother emailed me to tell me.17:38
nathanynkinkade: i just went to https://mail.google.com/a/creativecommons.org17:38
nathanypaulproteus: it's only in "real" gmail afaik17:39
nkinkadeLet me try it, because I must lose 30 minutes a day waiting for Google Apps.17:39
paulproteusOh, interesting.17:39
nathanyi haven't seen it trickle into apps yet17:39
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nkinkadeThere's an addon somewhere that will force it, if I recall.17:39
tonyb486I've experimented with gmail cookie cloning, quite easy if https isnt forced17:40
paulproteusnkinkade, What's your Ekiga address again?17:41
nkinkadeAh, there is an option in Google Apps now.17:41
nkinkade(to force HTTPS all the time)17:41
nkinkadepaulproteus: nkinkade@ekiga.net17:41
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nkinkadeBut let me find out whey Ekiga doesn't want to register.17:41
nkinkadepaulproteus: Weren't you having some problems with STUN before?17:41
paulproteusDude, I've been in like 10 different networks in the past week.17:41
paulproteusAnyway, I'm fine where I am.17:42
nkinkadeYou're kind of a network tramp.17:42
nkinkadepaulproteus: Strike that, my user is edaknik.17:42
paulproteusBovinity esp., but all: you might like this: http://www.postcardsfromyomomma.com/2008/10/09/what-mom-learned-from-aarp/17:42
paulproteusAre you online?17:43
paulproteusFeel free to dial me; I'm paulproteus@ekiga.net (right now).17:43
tonyb486I think someone just tried to swipe my laptop... while I was sitting here looking behind me17:44
Bovinitypaulproteus: umm.. wierd.17:46
paulproteusI found it hilarious.17:46
paulproteusO Kinkade,17:49
nkinkadepaulproteus: One second.17:50
nkinkadeYour voice is coming out my desktop speakers.17:50
paulproteusRight now, you can hear me typing these words.17:50
paulproteusIf you had a really great set of statistics, you could deduce my passphrase if you hear me type it in Ekiga.17:50
paulproteusx11vnc17:51
paulproteusvncviewer localhost:017:55
paulproteusYup, I can't reach you.18:09
paulproteusnkinkade.18:09
nkinkadeHmm18:09
nkinkadeLet me try to login again.18:09
paulproteusI do hear good things about Ekiga 3.18:09
nkinkadeDo you just have "paulproteus" as the user, or does it need @ekiga.net?18:10
paulproteusLike email, it appends your domain if you don't specify one.18:10
paulproteusOh, I meant for outgoing calls.18:10
paulproteusFor registering I just use "paulproteus."18:10
paulproteusWhat is the Status: indication for why you're not registered?18:11
nkinkadeAh, I just didn't have the "registrar" field filled in.18:11
nkinkadeIt should work now.18:11
paulproteusOh, okay!18:11
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paulproteusnkinkade, Should I ring you back, or are we good?18:13
paulproteusnkinkade, I'll try to leave this running all the time; feel free to ring me for any reason.18:13
nkinkadepaulproteus: I think we're good.18:13
paulproteusLike "Hey, what's that package called?"18:13
nkinkadeI'll leave mine on as well.  Maybe nathany_writing could do something similar.18:13
nathany_writingI'm nyergler18:15
nathany_writing(and online now)18:15
nkinkadeAccelerated full screen video conferencing.18:23
nkinkadepaulproteus: nathany_writing: ^^ Apparently that's a new feature of version 3.0 of Ekiga.18:23
nkinkadeThat could be interesting.18:23
paulproteusOh nice!18:23
paulproteusThat's the telepresence feature we're looking for.18:24
paulproteusApparently I recorded the past 30 minutes with parec.18:24
nkinkadeI wonder if something along those lines could allow to do some modified standups.18:24
paulproteusI make weird sounds with my mouth.18:24
nathany_writingnkinkade: is Ekiga 3 available?18:25
nkinkadeIt is, but I'm not sure it's available for Ubuntu yet.18:25
paulproteusIt's packaged in an Ekiga.net repository.18:25
paulproteusHmm, http://snapshots.ekiga.net/ has nightly snapshots18:26
paulproteusMan, it sounds like I'm eating.18:27
paulproteusWait, maybe I was at the time this was recording.18:27
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nkinkadehttp://packages.debian.org/experimental/ekiga18:30
nkinkadeIt's also in Debian experimental.18:30
nkinkadeBut maybe there would be dependency problems.18:30
nathanysigh... that means i have to figure out how to pin? i'll just add their repos18:30
paulproteusEr, that's a dangerous plan!18:34
nathanyyeah18:34
nathanyit requires new edataserver18:34
nathanyi guess i don't care that much18:34
nathanypaulproteus: what's your ekiga addr?18:34
nathany(and can it do multi-party calls?)18:35
paulproteuspaulproteus18:35
paulproteusre: multi-party: No idea, actually.18:35
paulproteusparec seems to only really record the microphone on my machine.18:35
* paulproteus is listening to the past 30 minutes of his microphone still18:35
nathanynot what you're hearing as well?18:35
nathanynkinkade: can you try to call paulproteus or i on ekiga?18:38
nkinkadenathany: I didn't see that Ekiga supports conference calls.18:38
nathanyboo18:38
nkinkadeBut ekida.net apparently does.18:38
nathanywhat is ekida?18:38
nkinkadeby dialing sip:######@ekiga.net18:39
paulproteusnkinkade, ?18:39
nkinkade6 numbers before the @, or somethign like that.18:39
nathanyoh, like a party line?18:39
nkinkadeThen we all dial that same number.18:39
nathanyoops18:39
nkinkadeThe first caller can set a pin to the channel.18:39
nathany424242@ekiga.net?18:39
paulproteussip:6060842@ekiga.net18:39
nkinkadenathany: I'll try to call you now.18:39
paulproteussip:5016060@ekiga.net18:40
nathanypaulproteus: are you on one of those?18:40
paulproteusJoin me there.  (That seems to actually work.)18:40
paulproteusYeah, that last one.18:40
nathanynkinkade: are you going to try and join us?18:41
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paulproteushttp://www.ipkall.com/18:58
paulproteushttp://www.asteriskvoipnews.com/sip/avaya_ip_office_pbx_adds_sip_support.html fwiw19:02
paulproteusI like the idea of us running our own conference call.19:07
m3cr3d1swhat is the protocol for adding a feed to the planet?19:11
nkinkadem3cr3d1s: You can do that through me.19:13
m3cr3d1scool19:13
nkinkadeJust tell me what the blog is.19:13
m3cr3d1sI mean I'm not sure its a good idea19:13
m3cr3d1sbut adding a microblog planet19:13
m3cr3d1smight be interesting19:13
nkinkadeI would ping mlinksva about it.19:13
m3cr3d1syeah19:13
nkinkadeHe's usually the one who suggests new ones for me to add.19:14
m3cr3d1sits got a pretty low SNR so19:14
m3cr3d1sit may not be worth it19:14
mlinksvam3cr3d1s: i'm not sure what you had in mind, but a quick hack is in there http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/1096619:15
m3cr3d1sah yes19:15
m3cr3d1sduh19:15
m3cr3d1smight be good to put http://search.twitter.com/search?q=%23cc+OR+%40creativecommons+OR+creativecommons+OR+%22creative+commons%22 in there somewhere19:15
mlinksvabtw nkinkade or Bovinity why does the "Creative Commons international" link appear above the post title on that post19:17
mlinksvahttp://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/1096619:17
Bovinitymlinksva: probably a miscategorisation19:17
Bovinityah, yep, it *was* tagged International19:17
mlinksvaah19:18
mlinksvamaybe my misclick19:18
mlinksvasorry19:18
mlinksvai guess it doesn't really hurt19:18
mlinksvais it intended for posts that are somehow international to be tagged like that?19:19
Bovinityit relates to the international section, and how things show up there19:19
Bovinity(iirc)19:19
mlinksvam3cr3d1s: that's a little different then stuff currently on planet, which all comes from ppl with some cc connection.  we could think about doing something similar (cc conversations from others) for blogs as well as microblogs, not to mention mainstream press...19:20
m3cr3d1syeah19:20
m3cr3d1sI just thought of that point too19:21
m3cr3d1sala Allison's suggestion19:21
Bovinityhttp://twitter.com/brandenp/statuses/103847893419:21
mlinksvayeah. we've trired to tackle that in the past, including auto-posting stuff from google news feed, never got it quite right and/or were able to sustain effort to do it well manually19:21
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mlinksvaanyway, definitely something to figure out how to make work19:23
mlinksvai mean to get to work, not to create "make work" :)19:23
m3cr3d1shaha19:23
m3cr3d1sdid we ever figure out why Google started hating on news alerts to cc-staff?19:24
m3cr3d1snot even a phone call19:24
m3cr3d1sit hurt19:24
paulproteusnathany, BTW:19:25
paulproteusWe could actually tell ipkall.com that we want to connect a Seattle # with 5016060@ekiga.net and not even have to run our own Asterisk.19:25
paulproteus(which is where we just were)19:25
nathanypaulproteus: can multiple people call the number @ the same time?19:26
mlinksvam3cr3d1s: no.  i added "creative commons" to my personal gnews, so i admit ignoring it since then19:26
mlinksvai mean cc-staff not getting them19:26
m3cr3d1syeah19:26
m3cr3d1sI've done the same19:26
m3cr3d1sabout to create a filter19:26
m3cr3d1sto fwd to my cc19:27
paulproteusnathany, The ipKall?  Ooh, I forgot to think about that.19:27
paulproteusLet me see.19:27
nathanypaulproteus: cool19:30
paulproteusnathany, http://64.233.169.132/search?q=cache:http://forum.voxilla.com/ipkall-support-forum/many-channels-ipkall-did-18287.html&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial&hs=1Vz&strip=1 indicates Yes.19:34
paulproteus94 max.19:34
paulproteusSweet, I built me an Ekiga 3.0 package.19:34
nathanypaulproteus: what's the relationship between ipKall and fwd.pulver.com?19:35
paulproteusNothing, but Free World Dialup used to be a free SIP hosting service like ekiga.net is.19:36
nathany(and while this is cool, it doesn't really solve our recording problem, does it?)19:36
nathanyah19:36
paulproteusWell, if we can e.g. easily have a computer join the SIP conversation with Ekiga or similar and record what it hears independent of the other participants, than it does.19:37
paulproteusThat is, it can just record the line, since it wouldn't have a mic to also record.19:37
nathanyright19:37
greg-gpaulproteus / nathany : do you have the slides available for the OSCON talk re liblicense? nothing here (http://en.oreilly.com/oscon2008/public/schedule/detail/2857) nor (http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Rights_on_the_Desktop_with_liblicense)19:47
* greg-g isn't sure why he put parens around those links19:47
paulproteusgreg-g, You should put <> instead.  Anyway, they're in git somewhere.19:47
greg-glooking19:48
paulproteushttp://code.creativecommons.org/viewgit?p=liblicense_oscon_talk.git;a=summary19:48
greg-gyep, thanks19:49
greg-gthe slow coffeeshop wireless failed me19:49
greg-gadded to the cc wiki page19:54
greg-gwell, wehn the wireless catches up19:57
nathanypaulproteus: does parec do .wav output by default?19:57
paulproteusNo, it does raw unheadered PCM data which is a pain to deal with.19:58
nathanyhrm19:58
nathanythat's lame19:58
paulproteuspacat can play it back.19:58
paulproteusI agree re: lame.19:58
nathanyi tried to record the "monitor" on my laptop19:58
nathanyi was suprised to see parec show up as  "source"19:59
nathanyi would have expected it to show up under the "sinks" listing19:59
nathanyoh, but it seems to have worked19:59
paulproteusThat's good at least.20:00
nathanyso how do you convert that to a wav or something you can manipulate easily?20:00
nathanyBovinity: mlinksva: curry?20:06
Bovinityyeah, jus tneed to get cash20:06
mlinksvay20:09
paulproteusnathany, re: to wav: In theory, it should be "easy" giving sox the right arguments.20:11
paulproteusI have no current plans to find those arguments today, though.20:11
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nathanypaulproteus: yup, just figured it out20:58
paulproteusYay!20:59
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m3cr3d1sI've resorted to microthreatening21:38
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m3cr3d1swoah22:03
m3cr3d1shttp://twitter.com/drapps/statuses/103897931122:03
greg-gwoah indeed22:07
paulproteusJust like last time.22:08
paulproteusnathany, mlinksva, should we do an emergency security audit of the servers?22:08
m3cr3d1shahahah22:08
* m3cr3d1s puts on tin foil hat22:08
paulproteusShortly after MS announced their Office CC add-in in 2006, apps.creativecommons.org was pwnt.22:09
paulproteusAdmittedly, that was to an irate audience at iSummit Rio that I wish I had seen.22:10
m3cr3d1sthey were throwing red clown noses22:10
m3cr3d1sit was kind of embaressing22:10
nathanyit was completely embarassing22:10
nathanythey were acting like children22:10
* paulproteus bursts into laughter at nathany's correction22:10
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paulproteusLuckily we have backups this time around anyway.22:11
nathanyi still can't believe how lame they were "omg! he has more toys than i do! why don't you [cc] make it right even though you didn't cause the problem!?!"22:11
nathanywell i hope the new version works well...22:12
paulproteusCreative Commons Add-in for Microsoft Office 2007: Date Published:7/25/2008 <http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:eEWDY1iXOf8J:www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx%3FFamilyId%3DD1DDBDC8-627F-415A-9B0A-97362BC9B480+creative+commons+office+2007&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a>22:13
paulproteusFYI22:13
m3cr3d1shrm22:13
paulproteusI could have sworn I had heard of this before.22:13
m3cr3d1sinteresting22:13
m3cr3d1syeah22:13
nathanynew version?22:13
m3cr3d1smaybe they're scared of telling us?22:13
paulproteusIndeed, http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/866122:13
paulproteusm3cr3d1s, Feel free to @thatguy: we scooped you <http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/8661>22:14
paulproteusNow it's 1.01; it was 1.0.22:14
m3cr3d1sso much for institutional knowledge22:14
paulproteussite:creativecommons.org office-2007 # institutional knowledge ftw!22:14
m3cr3d1shahah22:14
m3cr3d1shrm,22:15
m3cr3d1swas that snarky?22:15
m3cr3d1shttp://twitter.com/creativecommons/status/103900954522:15
nathanylol22:16
paulproteus"thanks for the update" is kind of zingy.22:16
paulproteusOh well, so it goes.22:16
paulproteusI was just chatting with a friend at CDT (Center for Democracy and Technology) who was complaining to me that they don't know that Twitter is supposed to be a conversation.22:17
m3cr3d1sI'm not quite sure either22:17
m3cr3d1sand I'm not even sure people like me @ theming22:17
m3cr3d1serr, @ing them22:17
m3cr3d1shaha22:17
paulproteusI think they probably think, "Ooh, CC is so hip!"22:18
paulproteusIn all honesty.22:18
m3cr3d1sI facetiously wrote something about Delicious22:20
m3cr3d1sand they replied back, facetiously22:20
m3cr3d1sit kind blew my mind22:20
m3cr3d1shttp://twitter.com/creativecommons/status/1039009545 and http://twitter.com/mecredis/status/102167391122:21
m3cr3d1serr http://twitter.com/Delicious/status/102186880622:21
paulproteusI have no idea what http://twitter.com/mecredis/status/1021673911 could possibly mean.22:22
m3cr3d1slook at your keyboard man22:23
paulproteusOh, I never do that.22:23
paulproteus(-:22:23
Bovinitym3cr3d1s: whenever i tweet annoyance about YUI, they always respond. it's the craziest thing.22:26
paulproteushttp://twitter.com/drapps/status/1039023721 is kind of hilarious.22:26
m3cr3d1syeah he must be a dev22:26
m3cr3d1slove it22:26
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