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| hdworak | paulproteus: http://www.imagesduo.com/uploads/948781results.png | 00:10 |
|---|---|---|
| hdworak | :) | 00:11 |
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| parkerhiggins | yo, ftobia are you there? | 00:49 |
| ftobia | parkerhiggins: yo higgs. | 00:49 |
| parkerhiggins | ftobia: hey fahtobes. i was just looking on wikipedia... | 00:49 |
| parkerhiggins | and two months ago you edited an article that i wrote | 00:50 |
| ftobia | which one? | 00:50 |
| parkerhiggins | but it's only been edited, like, 4 or 5 times, so i noticed it | 00:50 |
| ftobia | yeah i havne't wikistalked you. | 00:50 |
| ftobia | ..yet | 00:50 |
| parkerhiggins | constance rourke. you reformatted the birth and death dates. | 00:50 |
| Bovinity | he's here to break your knees for doing that | 00:50 |
| ftobia | that is incredibly random. | 00:50 |
| ftobia | oh i probably found it because i wikistalked you before i knew who you were. | 00:51 |
| ftobia | yeah i have your user page watched. it must be that. | 00:51 |
| nkinkade | This is a neat tool: http://guichaz.free.fr/iotop/ | 00:57 |
| nkinkade | But it require kernel >2.6.20. | 00:57 |
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| hdworak | ftobia: Public Domain is not libre? | 01:12 |
| hdworak | ftobia: I did print license.license_code, license.libre and got: ublicdomain False | 01:19 |
| hdworak | note the lack of "p" in "ublicdomain" | 01:19 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: I'd like to rename the branch "sandbox" to "master" in validator.git | 01:21 |
| * hdworak has pushed the latest update | 01:25 | |
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| hdworak | bye | 01:27 |
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| macic | -_- i need credit card numbers! is fbi the right place too look? | 10:01 |
| macic | i guess yes! cya :D | 10:01 |
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| hdworak | hi. what is the license of cc.license ? is it MIT as http://pypi.python.org/pypi/cc.license/ says? | 13:18 |
| CharelB | wtf? | 13:18 |
| hdworak | I couldn't find any information in the pypi source code | 13:23 |
| hdworak | nor in the cc.license.git repository | 13:24 |
| hdworak | I can see at SVN that the nathany's version is licensed under MIT | 13:25 |
| hdworak | though there is no boilerplate in the source code | 13:26 |
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| paulproteus | hdworak, MIT is fine, yes. | 14:21 |
| paulproteus | We will make a git commit later today to indicate that. | 14:21 |
| hdworak | with full license text pls | 14:21 |
| paulproteus | Natch. | 14:22 |
| hdworak | MIT license is supposed to provide a notice that is meant to be preserved acrossed distributions | 14:22 |
| hdworak | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mit_license#License_terms | 14:22 |
| hdworak | w/o providing the copyright year and holders at least, I guess it is not nice to say it's licensed under the MIT license | 14:23 |
| hdworak | but I may be wrong in this matter | 14:23 |
| hdworak | I'm dealing with the legal stuff right now | 14:28 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: cc.license uses Redland which is licensed under either GNU (L)GPL 2.1 or newer or Apache 2.0 License - is it legal to release such software (cc.license) under the MIT license then? | 14:34 |
| sucker007 | where can i get free photos and images/icons? | 14:39 |
| paulproteus | sucker007, Have you used search.creativecommons.org? | 14:41 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, Sure - so long as we don't include it in our own code. | 14:41 |
| paulproteus | We're not modifying Redland, so we're fine | 14:42 |
| sucker007 | paulproteus: no | 14:43 |
| sucker007 | paulproteus: what's the license for commercial use? | 14:43 |
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| paulproteus | sucker007, If you need commercial use, you can use any CC license that doesn't include the "NC" (non-commercial) restriction. | 14:43 |
| paulproteus | You still have to comply with the other parts of the license, like the attribution requirement. | 14:44 |
| paulproteus | nathany, Mornin'. | 14:44 |
| nathany | morning | 14:44 |
| sucker007 | paulproteus: can i put the acknoldgement in only one place? | 14:45 |
| nathany | how's argentina, paulproteus | 14:45 |
| sucker007 | or do i need to put it in every page of my web site? | 14:45 |
| paulproteus | nathany, Debconf is totally awesome. | 14:45 |
| paulproteus | I'm less enthusiastic about Argentina, except insofar as it includes Debconf right now. | 14:45 |
| nathany | got it | 14:45 |
| paulproteus | nathany, Can you answer sucker007's question? He's talking about attributing CC-licensed photos on a commercial website. | 14:47 |
| paulproteus | I think the answer's yes, but I'm not as sure as I want to be. | 14:48 |
| nathany | sucker007: you're using CC licensed photos and want to know where to attribute them? | 14:48 |
| nathany | the general answer is "you have to give credit where credit is given" ;) so for movies that means in the credits at the end | 14:48 |
| paulproteus | For a website that's not *about* photos, would the site's general copyright page suffice? | 14:49 |
| paulproteus | Rather than e.g. underneath each photo. | 14:49 |
| sucker007 | nathany: i just want to use some photos in my web site | 14:49 |
| nathany | i think it would technically | 14:49 |
| nathany | so long as the copyright notice is linked to from the pages (ie, it's easily discoverable) | 14:49 |
| nathany | not IANAL, TINLA | 14:49 |
| nathany | note, that is | 14:49 |
| sucker007 | can i just put a small link at the bottom ? | 14:49 |
| sucker007 | that link will go to a page that tell people where i get the photos from | 14:50 |
| paulproteus | That would be fine, so long as "small" is not a code-word for "unreadably small". (-: | 14:50 |
| nathany | sure (although i'd distinguish "small" from "microscopic" :) ) | 14:50 |
| nathany | exactly | 14:50 |
| sucker007 | but, do i need to put that link in every page that the photos appear? | 14:52 |
| sucker007 | i just want to put that link in "terms and conditions" | 14:52 |
| paulproteus | sucker007, You should put a link to that credits page at the bottom of every page that the photo appears in so people don't think you took all the photos yourself. | 14:53 |
| sucker007 | paulproteus: thanks | 14:54 |
| sucker007 | so, to be safe i would put that link in the footer area so that every page will show it | 14:54 |
| paulproteus | Great. | 14:54 |
| hdworak | if I've written software that uses a MIT-licensed library (not incorporating any of its source code itself), do I need to state that in any place? | 14:54 |
| * hdworak is aware he cannot expect a legal advice | 14:55 | |
| sucker007 | paulproteus: one more question, must i include the license name as well? | 14:55 |
| sucker007 | say, CC 2.5 | 14:55 |
| paulproteus | http://wiki.creativecommons.org/FAQ#How_do_I_properly_attribute_a_Creative_Commons_licensed_work.3F says in part: "You also need to provide the URL for the Creative Commons license selected with each copy of the work that you make available. " | 14:56 |
| paulproteus | Man, Ankit is writing some pretty un-Pythonic Python. | 14:59 |
| paulproteus | I wish he were around so we could talk about it. | 15:00 |
| hdworak | any1? *bump* | 15:01 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, Depends what "uses" means. | 15:01 |
| hdworak | like nosetests in libvalidator | 15:01 |
| hdworak | or BeautifulSoup | 15:02 |
| hdworak | I do not modify or incorporate the source code of nosetests and BeautifulSoup | 15:02 |
| paulproteus | Well, as you know, I think that's fine. | 15:02 |
| paulproteus | Due to you not creating a derived work. | 15:02 |
| paulproteus | nathany, If you could check my desktop and see if it is crashed and insane, and reboot it if it is, I'd appreciate that. | 15:03 |
| nathany | btw, why is your machine so unstable these days? | 15:04 |
| nathany | (checking now) | 15:04 |
| paulproteus | nathany, No real clue, honestly. | 15:04 |
| nathany | nope, it's up | 15:04 |
| paulproteus | nathany, Maybe we should have it run memtest86. | 15:04 |
| nathany | it's at the login screen | 15:04 |
| paulproteus | nathany, Okay, good - then I wonder why I can't seem to SSH in. | 15:04 |
| paulproteus | Wait, I can. | 15:05 |
| paulproteus | Buh. | 15:05 |
| paulproteus | It seems that the wireless router sometimes forgets my ARP entry. | 15:05 |
| paulproteus | When my machine is silent for a while. | 15:05 |
| hdworak | nose is GNU LGPL 2 or newer :) | 15:11 |
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| hdworak | paulproteus: if we consider MIT and W3C variations of BSD, then libvalidator+validator use BSD software, except for nose (GNU LGPL 2 or newer) and indirectly Redland (Apache 2.0 or GNU (L)GPL 2.1 or newer) | 15:20 |
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| hdworak | I've got all the licenses ( http://cc.pastebin.com/m1b70060a ) except for cc.license, which is coming tonight | 15:21 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, Do you include a copy of these programs? | 15:22 |
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| paulproteus | If not, why do you care about their copyright notices? | 15:22 |
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| hdworak | partially because I think it's good to give credit when it's due | 15:22 |
| hdworak | and because we need to decide for the license for the validator and libvalidator | 15:23 |
| hdworak | I would strongly opt for GNU Affero General Public License v3 or newer | 15:24 |
| hdworak | what do you think about this proposal? | 15:24 |
| hdworak | I consider it the perfect license for Web applications | 15:24 |
| paulproteus | I think the Affero GPL is too restrictive. | 15:24 |
| hdworak | I agree to license this software under any OSI-aproved (as per GSoC guidelines) license of your choice to comfort Creative Commons | 15:26 |
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| hdworak | nevertheless, I shall express my most sincere disappointment if the work is not released GNU Affero General Public License v3 or newer | 15:27 |
| hdworak | please decide what license should I release the code under | 15:28 |
| hdworak | nathany, paulproteus: ^^^^ | 15:28 |
| nathany | hdworak: i'm just looking at the code to see if the same license is necessarily needed for both pieces | 15:30 |
| nathany | libvalidator... handles extracting metadata from HTML documents? | 15:30 |
| hdworak | yes, a library | 15:30 |
| nathany | ok | 15:31 |
| hdworak | validator - a Web app interface | 15:31 |
| paulproteus | Wow, I seem to have 27s of lag. | 15:31 |
| paulproteus | And I have 4s pings. | 15:31 |
| paulproteus | Uh, let's talk about this later; apparently my connectivity sucks. | 15:31 |
| hdworak | I do not consider GNU LGPL 3.0 or newer for the library, because of http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/why-not-lgpl.html | 15:31 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: that's perfectly fine; allow me to leave the GNU Affero boilerplate for the time being, as I shall substitute it at your request when you decide upon the license | 15:32 |
| nathany | hdworak: i think that LGPL document reflects a very specific idea of what "good" is | 15:33 |
| nathany | in our case, *anyone* (even proprietary software) who enable the use of CC licenses in their work is a good thing | 15:34 |
| hdworak | nathany: I understand your point of view and, as stated, I shall release the code under any OSI license | 15:35 |
| nathany | right; just wanted to point that out.. thank you for being so flexible | 15:35 |
| hdworak | as for my personal views, I put all my trust in the GNU philosophy when it comes to software freedom and licensing | 15:36 |
| nathany | i'm not necessarily opposed to AGPL, but would probably be more incline to use it for validator, something else for the library; i'll talk to paulproteus as i'd like to hear what his objections are | 15:36 |
| paulproteus | AGPL is okay for the web app, it's just that I don't think we've made anything we need to protect *that* much. | 15:37 |
| paulproteus | I guess the question is, do we really mind if someone creates forked-cc-validator.com and runs a crazy awesome patched Validator without releasing source. | 15:38 |
| paulproteus | I guess it would be nice to get source then. | 15:38 |
| hdworak | I would like to stress that the rationale of my proposal of using GNU Affero General Public License is by no means having a high opinion of my software, it is just acting on what I consider a dear principle | 15:41 |
| paulproteus | Sure, why not, let's try AGPL for a web app. | 15:45 |
| paulproteus | libvalidator being GPL ("v2 or later, at your option") for now makes sense to me. | 15:45 |
| hdworak | nathany: do you agree? | 15:45 |
| nathany | i'm fine with AGPL for web app; how about LGPL for the library? (following the "let's get everyone to validate their shit" idea) | 15:46 |
| paulproteus | nathany, Since it's Python, they can import it without implicating the license. | 15:47 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: I am sorry if I'm asking about the obvious, but I need to ask: have you considered the dangers of using v2 of *GPL licenses? (the tivoisation and patents in particular) | 15:47 |
| paulproteus | But I'm okay with LGPL ("v2.1 or later, at your option") also. | 15:47 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, Tivoization is interesting | 15:47 |
| hdworak | are you pro-tivoisation? | 15:48 |
| paulproteus | Hah! No. | 15:48 |
| nathany | paulproteus: you're correct, but i don't think many people get that (the difference between importing and linking in this case) | 15:48 |
| paulproteus | nathany, Yeah, hence my "I'm okay with" statement. | 15:48 |
| nathany | so AGPL for validator, LGPL >= 2.1 for libvalidator | 15:48 |
| hdworak | I hereby acknowledge that AGPL might not be the best idea to use for the library, because of the online availability requirement | 15:48 |
| * nathany goes back to picking through scraper testing code | 15:49 | |
| hdworak | nathany | 15:49 |
| nathany | yes? | 15:49 |
| hdworak | I do not think AGPL 3.0 is compatible with LGPL 2.1, but I may be wrong | 15:49 |
| hdworak | if you decide to go for LGPL instead of GPL for the library, please just keep in mind http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/why-not-lgpl.html - but let me underline it again - I do not oppose any of your decissions | 15:50 |
| nathany | right | 15:51 |
| hdworak | how about validator AGPL 3+ and libvalidator LGPL 3+ | 15:51 |
| hdworak | ? | 15:51 |
| nathany | sure | 15:51 |
| paulproteus | Sure. | 15:51 |
| hdworak | ok, thank you very much | 15:51 |
| nathany | :) | 15:51 |
| hdworak | I shall include boilerplates at the beginning of every file as per FSF's guidelines | 15:52 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: shall we install the Web application on-line before the evaluation? | 15:55 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: the Web application has reached the state where it is functional, although it does not have all the features yet (DC.title usage, attribution extraction) | 15:55 |
| paulproteus | Yes, that sounds pretty cool. | 15:56 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, Totally we should. | 15:56 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: could you please help me with renaming the git branch (for validator) from "sandbox" to "master" ? | 15:56 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, Sure: | 15:56 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: if so, may I suggest that the validator could be available under a sub-domain of creativecommons.org ? | 15:57 |
| paulproteus | validator-beta dot, I suggest. | 15:57 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, What's the name of your local branch that maps to the code you like? | 15:57 |
| paulproteus | http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Git_phrasebook#Making_a_local_branch_available_as_a_remote_branch explains how to push a local branch to a new remote branch name. | 15:57 |
| paulproteus | And the same page has a note about deleting a remote branch, which you could do to sandbox. | 15:58 |
| hdworak | okay, great | 15:58 |
| hdworak | thank you | 15:58 |
| paulproteus | I'm going to go eat lunch now. | 15:58 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: do you have anything against 1) crediting you for mentoring the work 2) mentioning Google Inc. sponsorship of the project - in the "About the software" Web page and/or README? | 15:59 |
| hdworak | nathany: do you have anything against special thanks for you in the "About the software" Web page and/or README? | 16:00 |
| nathany | no' | 16:00 |
| hdworak | :) | 16:00 |
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| hdworak | paulproteus: I've pushed both libv and validator and got rid of the sandbox branch | 17:25 |
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| hdworak | we can run an app from that | 17:25 |
| hdworak | (dependencies are not yet written) | 17:26 |
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| ftobia | hdworak: did you manage to get that git submodule issue handled? | 17:32 |
| Ekushey | paulproteus, how was debconf? | 17:40 |
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| ftobia | nathany: is it possible that the git submodules in cc.license (bootstrap and license.rdf) were "git submodule add"ed as read/write instead of read-only, and that led to hdworak's git submodule issues? and do you foresee bad things happening if i re-add them as read-only (or is that even a distinction?) | 17:55 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, Super rad. | 17:57 |
| paulproteus | Ekushey, I'm still there, and it's still great. | 17:58 |
| Ekushey | paulproteus, oh great! upload some pictures | 17:59 |
| Ekushey | are you on flickr? | 17:59 |
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| paulproteus | Ekushey, I am! I actually did upload a couple. | 18:01 |
| Ekushey | great, can i've the URL? | 18:02 |
| paulproteus | flickr.com/whatever/paulproteus | 18:03 |
| Ekushey | flickr.com/paulproteus works fine, it'll redirect to flickr.com/photos/paulproteus | 18:05 |
| paulproteus | Cool. | 18:05 |
| paulproteus | I only posted three so far. | 18:06 |
| paulproteus | Bovinity, nathany - you probably already know this, but ufraw and dcraw + Canon CR2s from the XSi sucks horribly. | 18:07 |
| paulproteus | I've been using rawstudio which seems very, very nice. | 18:07 |
| Bovinity | does dcraw even support XSI raw? | 18:07 |
| nathany | paulproteus: yeah, Canon revved their RAW stuff for the XSI, IIRC | 18:11 |
| nathany | ftobia: I don't see anything bad happening if you re-add as read-only | 18:11 |
| nathany | and hey, it's version control, so we just roll back | 18:11 |
| paulproteus | Bovinity, It generates weird pink and yellow photos for me. | 18:12 |
| paulproteus | Rawstudio (a GPLware GNOMEy program) is easy to use and works great by default. | 18:12 |
| paulproteus | The photos have the content; they're just also very pink or yellow. | 18:12 |
| Bovinity | new sensor, so different raw data | 18:12 |
| paulproteus | Natch. | 18:12 |
| ftobia | hdworak: let me know when you're around. | 18:12 |
| Bovinity | paulproteus: shooting raw, or raw+jpg? | 18:13 |
| paulproteus | Bovinity, Just raw. | 18:13 |
| paulproteus | Seems silly to do raw + JPG, right? | 18:13 |
| Bovinity | the jpg is good in a pinch.. and apps like aperture and lightroom (perhaps f-spot too) use the jpgs for previews | 18:13 |
| Bovinity | i do find the jpg output to be a lot softer than the raw.. so i refrain from depending on it. | 18:14 |
| * paulproteus nods | 18:14 | |
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| ftobia | hdworak: try doing a fresh "git clone" next chance you get. i may have fixed things. | 18:46 |
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| paulproteus | hdworak, Hi. | 19:06 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, Let's talk about setting you up with a live version of the validator on the web when you're back. | 19:06 |
| hdworak | I'm back from my first lesson of riding a motorcycle :) | 19:34 |
| hdworak | ftobia: I'm around. Do you think "git clone" may resolve license.rdf issues? | 19:34 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: sure, have you created the domain? will I have the access to the domain or you will install everything? | 19:35 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, So basically, I want nkinkade to do it. | 19:35 |
| paulproteus | But if he's not around shortly, then I can. | 19:35 |
| paulproteus | nathany, Nice re: motocycle | 19:35 |
| hdworak | ftobia: (re: did you manage to get that git submodule issue handled?) no, I needed to switch back to pypi in order to continue the work; I'll give "git clone" a try in a sec | 19:36 |
| hdworak | ok, so 1) domain 2) python 2.5 3) stable version of pylons 4) stable version of genshi | 19:37 |
| paulproteus | Those are your goals? | 19:37 |
| paulproteus | Or the things I should provide? | 19:37 |
| hdworak | rather the latter :) I dunno much how to do it | 19:37 |
| hdworak | I run everything from Ubuntu packages | 19:37 |
| hdworak | libvalidator buildout is missing dependencies: utidylib and cc.license - I could add the latter without much problem as it is on pypi | 19:38 |
| hdworak | but uTidylib... it's probably something I could only get from a Ubuntu package | 19:38 |
| hdworak | ah, and cc.license required Redland which you have to install manually, as it is not on pypi | 19:39 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: please let me know if I'm missing something here or whether I should do something | 19:39 |
| * hdworak is git clone git://code.creativecommons.org/cc.license.git | 19:40 | |
| paulproteus | hdworak, I'll see what I can do about setting that up right now. | 19:40 |
| * hdworak is git submodule init | 19:40 | |
| * hdworak is git submodule update | 19:41 | |
| paulproteus | nathany, Shall I give hdworak a shell, then? I'm happy to help set up the Apache hosts etc. | 19:41 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: let me stress that I do not seek shell access and only use it if it means making your work easier | 19:41 |
| hdworak | although it would be genuinely interesting to see how to setup this software | 19:42 |
| hdworak | :) | 19:42 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, (-: | 19:44 |
| paulproteus | I think "all" we'll do is run ./bin/paster in a screen, and proxy to it. | 19:44 |
| hdworak | I'm more worried about the dependencies | 19:46 |
| paulproteus | nathany, Which machine should it be on, anyway? | 19:47 |
| paulproteus | Or nkinkade, if you're back. | 19:47 |
| hdworak | ftobia: so far, so good: http://cc.pastebin.com/m30678170 | 19:47 |
| hdworak | ftobia: great work | 19:47 |
| hdworak | ftobia: do you want me to check the linking now? (RDF_PATH issue) | 19:48 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, I will wait for nkinkade to tell me which machine and then set things up. | 19:48 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: no problem | 19:49 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: meanwhile, what should I do with the dependencies from the zc.buildout point of view? | 19:49 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: I mean, those dependencies that do not have pypi packages, just Ubuntu ones | 19:50 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, Leave a comment in a README or something. | 19:51 |
| hdworak | ftobia, nathany: could you please attach the MIT license code to cc.license.git ? | 19:51 |
| hdworak | (if cc.license is meant to be MIT-licensed in the first place) | 19:51 |
| nkinkade | paulproteus: Instead of reading backward a long way, what service are you talking about? | 19:54 |
| paulproteus | nkinkade, A beta of the new validator written by hdworak | 19:54 |
| nkinkade | paulproteus: How about where the present validator is? | 19:55 |
| hdworak | I'm adding cc.license to buildout.cfg: find-links = http://pypi.python.org/packages/2.5/c/cc.license/cc.license-0.01-py2.5.egg AND eggs = cc.license | 19:55 |
| nkinkade | I don't even think it's working. | 19:55 |
| hdworak | nkinkade: it isn't | 19:56 |
| paulproteus | nkinkade, It isn't really running. | 19:56 |
| nkinkade | Just a placeholder page saying "It's down." | 19:56 |
| nkinkade | paulproteus: hdworak: In that case, just make it a8. | 19:56 |
| ftobia | nathany: what time do you want to meet up? | 19:57 |
| nkinkade | Can I suggest validator-staging.creativecommons.org? | 19:57 |
| nkinkade | No! That's a joke. | 19:57 |
| hdworak | nkinkade: "it's down" ? where's that? | 19:57 |
| hdworak | nkinkade: it's not a joke, paulproteus proposed validator-beta | 19:57 |
| nkinkade | hdworak: I was paraphrasing. It really says "The CC Validator is offline while we retool it." | 19:57 |
| hdworak | ah :) | 19:57 |
| paulproteus | lol, nkinkade re: staging | 19:58 |
| nkinkade | paulproteus: hdworak: Why not just mv the old validator dir out of the way and put this one in there. | 19:58 |
| hdworak | the best part was when you clicked on "parse RDF" and it offered you a Python script to download (now defunct) | 19:58 |
| paulproteus | nathany, Is that okay with you, to clobber the current validator and jam this in? | 19:58 |
| paulproteus | nkinkade, I'd rather not, though. | 19:58 |
| nkinkade | Well, not to clobber it, but just move the current directly somewhere else. | 19:58 |
| nkinkade | paulproteus: Why not? | 19:58 |
| paulproteus | I'd rather have nathany look at it on not-validator.creativecommons.org and say, "Fix this link," "link this to that on the description web page," and then move it to the real URL. | 19:59 |
| nkinkade | The current one does nothing, as far I've been told. | 19:59 |
| hdworak | bear in mind that this validator that we want to install is NOT in final version, it's just FUNCTIONAL version | 19:59 |
| nkinkade | Sure. Well, in any case a8 seems like the logical place. | 19:59 |
| nkinkade | Why not validatorz.creativecommons.org? | 19:59 |
| hdworak | :D | 20:00 |
| nkinkade | :) | 20:00 |
| hdworak | v4l1d4t0r.creativecommons.org | 20:00 |
| nkinkade | Or validate-this-yo.creativecommons.org | 20:00 |
| nkinkade | haha. | 20:00 |
| Bovinity | is.this.under.creativecommons.org | 20:02 |
| nathany | hdworak: nkinkade: paulproteus: validator.cc.org is linked from other places, so i'd rather not put the prototype there | 20:02 |
| paulproteus | nathany, Agreed | 20:02 |
| nathany | (until it's ready to go) | 20:02 |
| nkinkade | paulproteus: Did you see the video with the GSoC guy demonstrating the usage of the accelerometers on the Freerunner. Not that it has anything to with CC, mind you. | 20:02 |
| paulproteus | Nope, I haven't seen the video yet. | 20:03 |
| paulproteus | I saw the mailing list post about the video. | 20:03 |
| paulproteus | While you chat on IRC, I'm making a Hackergotchi for Planet Debian for me. | 20:03 |
| nkinkade | http://digg.com/gadgets/Openmoko_Neo_Freerunner_Motion_Gestures_Screen_Orientation_2 | 20:03 |
| nkinkade | Pretty neat. | 20:03 |
| nkinkade | Looks like that functionality will be on a Freerunner near you very soon. | 20:04 |
| Bovinity | paulproteus: want to replace your /about/people headshot too? | 20:04 |
| paulproteus | I'm using that one, actually. | 20:04 |
| Bovinity | ah! | 20:04 |
| paulproteus | Is that a scream of agony? | 20:05 |
| Bovinity | terror! outrage! | 20:05 |
| paulproteus | Huh. | 20:05 |
| paulproteus | I kinda like that one. | 20:19 |
| paulproteus | Am I totally nuts in that? | 20:19 |
| hdworak | ftobia: when is this version of cc.license coming to the Python Package Index? | 20:24 |
| Bovinity | paulproteus: oh, no, it's fine. would probably work out well for a hackergotchi. | 20:25 |
| * hdworak pushed an update via git | 20:28 | |
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| nkinkade | nathany: Can you tell me how to change the NC Euro symbol to a USD symbol in the Deeds. Where is that configured? | 20:36 |
| nathany | i believe it's in the template (where it defines the jurisdiction codes to conditionally include the correct graphic) | 20:36 |
| nathany | why is this changing? | 20:36 |
| paulproteus | Did we decide on machine = a8, subdomain = validator-beta? | 20:37 |
| ftobia | hdworak: i'll have it uploaded by tomorrow. probably today. i'll let you know. | 20:38 |
| nkinkade | nathany: Florian would rather have it with a USD symbol. | 20:38 |
| nathany | ah | 20:39 |
| nathany | so that's probably in cc/engine/licenses/standard_templates/deed.pt | 20:39 |
| hdworak | http://not.endorsed.by.creativecommons.org/ | 20:40 |
| hdworak | ;) | 20:40 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: yes | 20:40 |
| paulproteus | creativecommons.makesad.us ! | 20:41 |
| hdworak | we can put robots.txt Disallow *, too | 20:41 |
| hdworak | $ dig validator.cc | grep NX | 20:42 |
| hdworak | ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id: 49484 | 20:42 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, Feel free to use the Web 2.0 Logo Generator to give you a "Validator (BETA)" logo. | 20:45 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: I have not written pylons unit tests yet | 20:45 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, Okay, well you should work on that shortly-ish. | 20:46 |
| Bovinity | bwahahaha | 20:46 |
| hdworak | no, no, no | 20:46 |
| Bovinity | i fully endorse the web 2.0 logo generator | 20:46 |
| paulproteus | GeneratoR (beta) | 20:46 |
| hdworak | creative commons + validator is all about Web 3.0 | 20:46 |
| hdworak | and that's what I love about this project | 20:46 |
| paulproteus | "Logo by Web 2.0. Technology by Web 3.0." | 20:46 |
| hdworak | http://www.h-master.net/web2.0/image/(reflect)validator.ccBETA.png | 20:47 |
| hdworak | :) | 20:47 |
| hdworak | if one combines Web 2.0 techniques with Web 3.0 techniques, this should yield Web 5.0 | 20:48 |
| paulproteus | Web six. | 20:48 |
| paulproteus | We multiply, not add! | 20:48 |
| Bovinity | that was winamp's rationale for Winamp 5 | 20:48 |
| hdworak | <object type="image/png" rel="sticker" | 20:48 |
| hdworak | Bovinity: exactly :) | 20:48 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: I think the code is ready to be run | 20:49 |
| ftobia | nathany: when are you around to meet about the formatter i18n? | 20:50 |
| paulproteus | Will try to set it up today, hdworak. | 20:50 |
| nathany | ftobia: i'm in a meeting until probably 3p | 20:50 |
| ftobia | okay i'll make myself ready at any time thereafter. | 20:50 |
| nathany | so let's chat right then, or tomorrow AM very first thing | 20:50 |
| nathany | great | 20:50 |
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| hdworak | ftobia, nathany: could you please attach the MIT license code to cc.license.git ? (if cc.license is meant to be MIT-licensed in the first place) | 20:51 |
| ftobia | i'll do it if nathany or paulproteus confirms that it should be MIT licensed. we never really decided which license to use. | 20:54 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: also, the pylons app has probably the sqlalchemy dependency, although I do not use SQL at all so far | 20:55 |
| nkinkade | nathany: It doesn't appear to be in that file you pointed me to. I found references to it in the deed3.css, but a recursive grep of cc/engine didn't turn up any other references to "nc-eu" | 20:55 |
| hdworak | ftobia: SVN version mentions that it's MIT-licensed | 20:55 |
| paulproteus | nathany, Sure, MIT is good | 20:55 |
| hdworak | ftobia: http://code.creativecommons.org/viewsvn/cc.license/branches/production/README.txt?revision=7807 | 20:56 |
| nathany | hdworak: that's the old cc.license | 20:56 |
| nathany | ftobia is doing completely new work | 20:56 |
| ftobia | yeah that's not the same codebase | 20:56 |
| nathany | i'm fine with MIT | 20:56 |
| ftobia | alright i'll include the license. | 20:56 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: is there any nice way to prevent urllib.FancyURLopener from opening local files? (and preserving data:, gopher, ftp, and http in the same time) | 20:59 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, I'm not sure off-hand; good thought. | 20:59 |
| hdworak | if I put the address "/etc/passwd" the application says: | 20:59 |
| hdworak | <class 'xml.parsers.expat.ExpatError'> syntax error: line 1, column 48 | 20:59 |
| paulproteus | You could always assert url.startswith('http://') | 20:59 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: reHyperlink = re.compile('^(?:data:|((ftp|gopher|https?)://))\S+$', re.IGNORECASE) | 21:00 |
| hdworak | ? | 21:00 |
| paulproteus | I would really just: | 21:00 |
| paulproteus | That looks okay to me. | 21:01 |
| paulproteus | But I would write it way simpler. | 21:01 |
| paulproteus | Like a bunch of asserts. | 21:01 |
| paulproteus | For transparency's sake. | 21:01 |
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| hdworak | ok, I've pushed the fix | 21:07 |
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| hdworak | paulproteus: if I want to put a file for the upload, /validator.tar.bz2 linked by this Pylons application | 21:10 |
| hdworak | what is the best way to do it? where should I put it? | 21:10 |
| paulproteus | Huh? | 21:10 |
| paulproteus | I'm going to git clone your repo to do the install. | 21:10 |
| hdworak | I want to provide a link to the source code of the app (we're dealing with GNU Affero GPL v3) | 21:11 |
| hdworak | it's a .tar.bz2 archive | 21:11 |
| hdworak | I don't know how to enable such a download in Pylons | 21:11 |
| paulproteus | Oh, right. | 21:11 |
| hdworak | so far I've just linked to /validator.tar.bz2 - but I do not know where to put that file | 21:11 |
| paulproteus | Bah. | 21:11 |
| paulproteus | Link to a gitweb-auto-generated git ID. | 21:12 |
| hdworak | could be solved with mod_rewrite though | 21:12 |
| paulproteus | It can autogenerate tarballs. | 21:12 |
| hdworak | hm... to a specific commit? | 21:12 |
| paulproteus | Yeah. | 21:12 |
| hdworak | then that could be a chicken-egg problem | 21:12 |
| paulproteus | Hah. | 21:13 |
| hdworak | if I write something, git will calculate sha1, and upload it | 21:13 |
| hdworak | then if I put this sha1 into a file, a new sha1 will emerge in a result | 21:13 |
| paulproteus | Pylons has a way to ship static files. | 21:13 |
| hdworak | or am I wrong? | 21:13 |
| paulproteus | I don't remember, but that's the term. | 21:13 |
| hdworak | ok | 21:13 |
| hdworak | I'll google and ask on #pylons then | 21:13 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, How should I deploy this app? | 21:16 |
| paulproteus | I'm sitting at a shell. | 21:16 |
| hdworak | install manually dependencies first (those that have no pypi) | 21:16 |
| hdworak | python 2.5, pylons, genshi, sqlalchemy, redland, utidylib | 21:17 |
| paulproteus | I just cloned validator.git. | 21:17 |
| hdworak | yes, it's in the README.txt | 21:17 |
| paulproteus | Can I deploy validator without being root to run easy_install validator? | 21:18 |
| paulproteus | I don't mind running other things as root, like the apt-get installs. | 21:19 |
| paulproteus | README.txt does not list what packages to install. | 21:19 |
| nkinkade | nathany: It would appear that the NC icon is handled in the file cc/engine/licenses/standard.py, just to document it here. | 21:20 |
| nkinkade | I'll modify accordingly and regenerate the Deeds. | 21:20 |
| nathany | nkinkade: ok | 21:21 |
| nkinkade | But it seems like there is a better way to do that than to have it hardcoded into the Python. | 21:21 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: it's because validator itself does not require manual packages, it's libvalidator | 21:21 |
| hdworak | libvalidator.git/README.txt | 21:21 |
| paulproteus | Trying lib now. | 21:25 |
| nkinkade | paulproteus: How do you feel about moving stats, at least until we can get a handle on the MySQL performance issues? Is it a serious chore to move? | 21:25 |
| paulproteus | nkinkade, uh wtf, installing a package on a8 caused Varnish to start/restart? | 21:25 |
| paulproteus | Setting up varnish (2.0~tp2-0) ... | 21:26 |
| paulproteus | Starting HTTP accelerator: varnishd failed! | 21:26 |
| paulproteus | invoke-rc.d: initscript varnish, action "start" failed. | 21:26 |
| paulproteus | dpkg: error processing varnish (--configure): | 21:26 |
| paulproteus | subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1 | 21:26 |
| nkinkade | paulproteus: I have seen that before, re: Varnish. | 21:26 |
| nkinkade | Maybe the package is marked as not- or half-configured? | 21:26 |
| paulproteus | I think it's a bug in the postinst init script. | 21:26 |
| paulproteus | It should return 0 if Varnish is already running. | 21:26 |
| paulproteus | Whereas it fails instead, so it thinks the package needs its postinit script run next time. | 21:27 |
| nkinkade | Ah, that could be. I had seen that a while back, but I haven't seen it in a while, and so I forgot about it. | 21:27 |
| nkinkade | But maybe I haven't installed anything on a8 in a while. | 21:27 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, The README.txt for libvalidator only mentions python-librdf. | 21:27 |
| nkinkade | Makes me wonder if that will be a problem on the other servers. | 21:27 |
| * paulproteus runs buildout | 21:29 | |
| * paulproteus sighs | 21:30 | |
| paulproteus | In the Debian etch days, python-librdf didn't set it up for Python 2.5. | 21:30 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, Tell me - do you require 2.5? | 21:31 |
| paulproteus | Getting distribution for 'cc.license'. | 21:31 |
| paulproteus | Error: Couldn't find a distribution for 'cc.license'. | 21:31 |
| paulproteus | No distribution for 2.4. | 21:32 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: I can't really tell, but I guess not | 21:32 |
| paulproteus | Why do you guess not, out of curiosity? | 21:33 |
| * paulproteus tries with 2.4 | 21:35 | |
| hdworak | no, because of my inexperience with Python | 21:35 |
| hdworak | I can't really tell if I have used any 2.5 features | 21:35 |
| hdworak | personally, I'm running all of this on 2.5 | 21:35 |
| hdworak | ok, I've asked on #pylons, they've told me to put the file in the ./public/ directory | 21:36 |
| hdworak | and it works now, I've checked | 21:36 |
| hdworak | (and git pushed) | 21:36 |
| paulproteus | nathany, What's the status of the CC0 dedication? | 21:37 |
| nathany | next iteration out in october, hopefully launching Q4 | 21:38 |
| nathany | paulproteus: ^^ | 21:38 |
| paulproteus | And what's the story on e.g. France and Germany where you can't disclaim copyright? | 21:39 |
| paulproteus | Legal as well as tech, basically. | 21:39 |
| nathany | in progress | 21:39 |
| nathany | see Diane's email to the cci list this morning | 21:39 |
| paulproteus | Oh! | 21:39 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: so it would look like the following: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:PD-self (re: France and Germany) | 21:41 |
| nkinkade | nathany: Do you have a problem with me implementing David McCabe's RDFa stuff to the CC wiki. | 21:43 |
| paulproteus | The Debian Wiki people were interested in the status, fwiw, nathany. | 21:43 |
| paulproteus | (As far as "use cases", then, that'd be one.) | 21:43 |
| nathany | paulproteus: uh, ok | 21:43 |
| nathany | nkinkade: there was an email to the SMW list about needing to use the URL resolver | 21:44 |
| nathany | i meant to read it more carefully to determine if it was actually a problem | 21:44 |
| nkinkade | I saw those messages, but it looked to me like the issue was only with how he was defining the xmlns. | 21:45 |
| nathany | nkinkade: | 21:47 |
| nathany | nope, just double checked | 21:48 |
| nathany | it's with the URLs he's generating... they appear correct but don't match the RDF generated by SMW for export | 21:48 |
| nkinkade | Alright, I'll solicit more comments from David on this before we do anything else. | 21:49 |
| nathany | see http://dmccabe.org/tmp/smw/index.php?title=Special:ExportRDF/Main_Page | 21:49 |
| nathany | yeah, i should have looked at that earlier... but it's a valid criticism :( | 21:50 |
| nathany | nkinkade: note that i didn't even look @ the xmlns question; i just compared GetN3 to the export | 21:50 |
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| hdworak | paulproteus: did Python 2.4 work for the project? | 21:54 |
| paulproteus | Not quite; hashlib is not there. | 21:54 |
| nathany | paulproteus: are you just blocking on cc.license not being in pypi for 2.5? | 21:55 |
| paulproteus | nathany, No, I made myself an egg. | 21:55 |
| nathany | oh, ok | 21:55 |
| paulproteus | sudo apt-get install python-librdf doesn't include a 2.5 version in stable. | 21:56 |
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| hdworak | what GNU/Linux distribution are you running there? Debian? | 22:00 |
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| hdworak | ftobia: I've noticed you have added the license. thank you | 22:36 |
| nkinkade | paulproteus: Did I hear anything from you about stats? | 22:40 |
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| paulproteus | nkinkade, no | 22:49 |
| paulproteus | currently in a key signing party | 22:50 |
| nkinkade | Intentionally? :-) | 22:50 |
| nkinkade | Alright, well maybe we can chat about it tomorrow. | 22:50 |
| paulproteus | would not be too hard, would take 10m to do and erify | 22:50 |
| paulproteus | I don't mind moving it | 22:50 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: did Python 2.4 work for the project? what GNU/Linux distribution are you running there? Debian maybe? | 22:51 |
| paulproteus | debaian stab;e | 22:52 |
| paulproteus | not yet for 2.4 | 22:52 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, It would be nice for you to port to 2.4 | 22:55 |
| paulproteus | Just as a favor | 22:56 |
| paulproteus | Just bootstrap w/ python2.4 | 22:56 |
| paulproteus | Then re-buildout | 22:56 |
| greg-g | http://ur1.ca/2ps | 22:57 |
| paulproteus | ut1.suck | 22:58 |
| paulproteus | ur1.suck | 22:58 |
| greg-g | ? | 23:03 |
| greg-g | do you hate freedom? ;) | 23:04 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: I run into errors with rdflib when doing python2.4 /usr/bin/buildout | 23:04 |
| hdworak | but it was the same with 2.5, I guess | 23:04 |
| hdworak | that's why I've installed it from the Ubuntu package | 23:04 |
| paulproteus | OK | 23:04 |
| paulproteus | We'll use 2.5 | 23:05 |
| paulproteus | somehoe | 23:05 |
| hdworak | I've got Error: Couldn't install: rdflib 2.4.0 | 23:05 |
| hdworak | :( | 23:06 |
| hdworak | I'm off to bed, bye! good luck, Asheesh | 23:08 |
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| sjuxax | Hi all. I want to incorporate a couple of icons from the tango icon set into my business card, and was wondering if I had to print on these cards icons (c) Tango Project or if I could simply link on the website. Tango icons are licensed under the CC-SA-BY. | 23:29 |
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| paulproteus | I'm sure given 1h I could port it to 2.4. Maybe I'll do that tonight. | 23:37 |
| paulproteus | Dinner time. | 23:37 |
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