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| hdworak | hello | 02:49 |
|---|---|---|
| hdworak | what a beautiful *morning* | 02:49 |
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| bring3 | hello | 06:17 |
| hdworak | hi, bring3 | 06:19 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: which of the license embedding methods did the old ccValidator support? | 06:20 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: I assume that no RDFa | 06:20 |
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| hdworak | paulproteus: what if RDF is broken (not the HTML/XHTML/RSS it is embedded in)? stop parsing? | 08:19 |
| ankitg | Hi hdworak ... I see you still busy with badgering paulproteus with questions ... how goes? | 08:21 |
| hdworak | ankitg: I'm trying to understand what should be done | 08:22 |
| hdworak | hello :) | 08:22 |
| ankitg | aren't we all ... | 08:22 |
| hdworak | sup? | 08:22 |
| ankitg | After two sleepless nights of trying to met this deadline, I was beat by the computational inability of our modern day computers, and I just just asked my prof. for an extension and am now waiting for a reply ... | 08:24 |
| ankitg | *s/met/meet | 08:24 |
| hdworak | what/which deadline? | 08:25 |
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| hdworak | for the research project on USA patents in China? | 08:25 |
| ankitg | I was taking this course - an independent study ... ^^ yes that one ... | 08:26 |
| ankitg | and I am supposed to submit a term paper for it ... I am still extracting data coz we got it so darn late and it was to say the least in a bad format ... | 08:26 |
| hdworak | JPEGs in a PDF? | 08:28 |
| hdworak | encrypted ofc. | 08:29 |
| hdworak | ;) | 08:31 |
| ankitg | they had tiff versions too ... but we purchased a text version which was in a proprietary software [windows only] ... which allowed for extraction only to text ... with a limitation of 500 records a time ... and when I wrote a script to extract it, I find what, corrupt records ... | 08:38 |
| ankitg | oh the 500 record limit is important since there were some 350,000 + records ... so that is 716 extractions ... | 08:38 |
| hdworak | paulproteus/nathany: in ccValidator in support.py there is an inaccuracy: | 08:39 |
| hdworak | ENC_REGEX = '(<meta http-equiv="Content-Type".*?charset=)(.*?)(".*?>)' | 08:39 |
| hdworak | to check for the encoding in META | 08:39 |
| hdworak | the problem here is that the http-equiv attribute does not have to come first (right after meta and a single space) | 08:40 |
| hdworak | it can be <meta dir="ltr" (...) | 08:41 |
| hdworak | plus this might simply appear in a CDATA block, so using regex should be unreliable IMHO | 08:42 |
| hdworak | or even in a simple comment | 08:42 |
| hdworak | ankitg: definitely not a nice situation, I'm sorry | 08:43 |
| ankitg | hdworak: all's well, my supervisor is nice =) | 08:44 |
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| ankitg | hdworak: I don't think they are up and about yet ... it's nearing 7 am there now ... | 08:53 |
| hdworak | oh, so you have just woke up | 08:57 |
| hdworak | if u go to bed at 6am | 08:58 |
| ankitg | hdworak: it's 7 am in SFO ... it's 22:00 hrs here ... | 08:59 |
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| hdworak | 4pm here :) | 09:07 |
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| hdworak | was there ever any test suite for ccValidator or ccRdf? | 10:13 |
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| hdworak | what is "deprecation date" for a license? | 10:41 |
| hdworak | http://wiki.creativecommons.org/images/7/73/20080415_OpenWeb_2008.pdf | 10:41 |
| hdworak | the date after the license expires? | 10:41 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, BTW, I'm waking up now, and I'll be in the office in 30-40m and we can talk then. | 10:41 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, As for deprecation date - some licenses have been "retired". | 10:41 |
| hdworak | ok, don't forget to take the bike | 10:42 |
| paulproteus | They can still be used but we don't promote them anymore. | 10:42 |
| paulproteus | http://creativecommons.org/retiredlicenses | 10:42 |
| hdworak | "CC0" - huh???? | 10:43 |
| paulproteus | CC Zero | 10:43 |
| paulproteus | A new in-development public domain dedication | 10:43 |
| paulproteus | http://wiki.creativecommons.org/CC0 fwiw | 10:44 |
| hdworak | ok, has a Wiki page | 10:44 |
| hdworak | is this legal? | 10:44 |
| paulproteus | Huh? | 10:45 |
| hdworak | 'cause on public domain-licensed files on Wiki there's an adnotation | 10:45 |
| hdworak | that if under a given jurisdiction waving all the rights is not possible | 10:45 |
| paulproteus | Right - there's discussion of that going on... | 10:45 |
| hdworak | the author grants all possible rights permitted by law | 10:45 |
| hdworak | but not everything | 10:45 |
| paulproteus | That's part of what makes it "in-development". | 10:45 |
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| hdworak | in ccRdf package, file rdfextract.py which relies on regular expression to parse files | 12:37 |
| hdworak | rel_regex = re.compile('rel="meta"', | 12:37 |
| hdworak | "rel" is an attribute that accepts a space-separated list | 12:37 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, Since it's pulling the data out of HTML comments, there's not a *much* better way to do it. | 12:38 |
| paulproteus | He could use an SGML parser and look at the comment blocks, though. | 12:38 |
| hdworak | I'm talking about the <link rel="meta" stuff | 12:38 |
| hdworak | not the comments | 12:38 |
| paulproteus | Oh, I see. | 12:38 |
| paulproteus | Well, that sucks. | 12:38 |
| paulproteus | Wouldn't that fail on <link rel='meta' ..>? | 12:38 |
| hdworak | of course it would | 12:39 |
| hdworak | http://www.google.com/codesearch?hl=pl&q=show:izjB3CA13SM:7wGNlOa5HrM:WfIWOsJXViE&sa=N&ct=rd&cs_p=http://mirrors.creativecommons.org/software/ccrdf/download/ccrdf-0.5.0.dev-r669.tar.gz&cs_f=ccrdf-0.5.0.dev-r669/src/ccrdf/rdfextract.py&start=1 | 12:39 |
| paulproteus | The least it could do is use BeautifulSoup to identify the <link> tags. | 12:39 |
| paulproteus | But this might predate BeautifulSoup. | 12:39 |
| paulproteus | 2004 - No, BS was around back then, but maybe NY didn't know about it. | 12:40 |
| hdworak | w/o BS or not | 12:40 |
| hdworak | this regex is insufficient | 12:40 |
| hdworak | not that it's a big deal | 12:40 |
| paulproteus | Agreed. I'm saying BeautifulSoup is a good way to do it instead of the regex. | 12:40 |
| hdworak | but I'm just reporting a bug | 12:40 |
| hdworak | correct | 12:40 |
| hdworak | as for the comments | 12:41 |
| hdworak | RDF in comments | 12:41 |
| hdworak | that's tricky, indeed | 12:41 |
| hdworak | did you ever consider RDF in CDATA sections? | 12:41 |
| hdworak | or isn't this a historical method? | 12:41 |
| paulproteus | Interesting. | 12:41 |
| hdworak | (CDATA is allowed in XHTML) | 12:41 |
| paulproteus | That would escape it, though. | 12:41 |
| paulproteus | So you'd see it. | 12:41 |
| paulproteus | Which would be a little odd. | 12:42 |
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| hdworak | no, no | 12:42 |
| hdworak | no problem | 12:42 |
| hdworak | I'm doing a validator that honours current and deprecated methods | 12:43 |
| * paulproteus nods | 12:43 | |
| hdworak | I'm not doing a validator that parses every trick a human can think of | 12:43 |
| paulproteus | So right - that's not a historical method. (-: | 12:43 |
| hdworak | :) | 12:43 |
| hdworak | when I'm writing XHTML, I try to come up with a nice code | 12:44 |
| hdworak | I'm not writing <p>hey, unescaped >>>> </p> | 12:44 |
| hdworak | because I simply can | 12:44 |
| hdworak | ok | 12:45 |
| hdworak | I've posted some questions while you were sleeping | 12:45 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: which of the license embedding methods did the old ccValidator support? | 12:45 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: what if RDF is broken (not the HTML/XHTML/RSS it is embedded in)? stop parsing? | 12:46 |
| hdworak | paulproteus/nathany: in ccValidator in support.py there is an inaccuracy: | 12:46 |
| hdworak | ENC_REGEX = '(<meta http-equiv="Content-Type".*?charset=)(.*?)(".*?>)' | 12:46 |
| hdworak | to check for the encoding in META; the problem here is that the http-equiv attribute does not have to come first (right after meta and a single space); it can be <meta dir="ltr" (...) | 12:46 |
| hdworak | with regex the basic problem are comments and CDATA IMHO | 12:47 |
| hdworak | 'cause they are captured, too | 12:47 |
| nathany | hdworak: good point | 12:47 |
| hdworak | historically, we should capture RDF inside comments | 12:47 |
| hdworak | oh, nathany | 12:47 |
| hdworak | hi there | 12:47 |
| hdworak | but we never capture CDATA | 12:47 |
| nathany | my suggestion is to fix it in your new implementation ;) | 12:47 |
| hdworak | these days I'm analysing what can I use for your software | 12:48 |
| hdworak | for=from | 12:48 |
| hdworak | nathany: which of the license embedding methods did the old ccValidator support? | 12:48 |
| nathany | RDF-in-a-comment, linked RDF, meta tags | 12:48 |
| nathany | (IIRC) | 12:48 |
| hdworak | w/o data: URI ? | 12:49 |
| nathany | i think the data: URI was suggested by someone after the initial validator was done | 12:49 |
| hdworak | I haven't seen this in the source code | 12:49 |
| nathany | CC never gave out data: URIs or encouraged their use | 12:49 |
| hdworak | oh, the same bug with rdfextract.py: rel_regex = re.compile('rel="license"', | 12:49 |
| hdworak | for anchor elements | 12:49 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, If you find that bugfixing nathany's code is a useful thing to do, then by all means go down that path. | 12:50 |
| * hdworak notes to himself: include that in unit tests | 12:50 | |
| hdworak | I mean... which of these projects are still active? | 12:51 |
| hdworak | and which are dead? | 12:51 |
| paulproteus | I think none have been maintained since the (C) date listed at the top. | 12:51 |
| hdworak | START_TAG = '<rdf:rdf' | 12:51 |
| hdworak | rdf is a reserved namespace as far as I recall | 12:52 |
| hdworak | points out to http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns# | 12:52 |
| hdworak | right? | 12:52 |
| paulproteus | I don't recall it being reserved, but I don't know for sure. | 12:53 |
| paulproteus | I can read that link. | 12:53 |
| nathany | reserved is inaccurate; it does point to that URI, though, IIRC | 12:53 |
| hdworak | http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-rdf-syntax/#rdfmodel | 12:53 |
| nathany | btw, hdworak, i have a couple things that i have to focus on today so please don't alert my IRC nick unless you actually need my input | 12:53 |
| hdworak | ok, sorry, I was reporting bugs I found in your software | 12:54 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, I'll handle them for now (-: | 12:54 |
| nathany | and that's awesome | 12:54 |
| paulproteus | I committed a FIXME comment to that one you mentioned earlier. | 12:54 |
| paulproteus | If you like, you're welcome to have commit access. | 12:54 |
| nathany | i'm just saying i don't need to do it immediately :) | 12:54 |
| nathany | email, via paulproteus, etc is fine :) | 12:54 |
| hdworak | but is it legal to do xmlns:foo="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#" | 12:55 |
| nathany | hdworak: sure | 12:55 |
| hdworak | and then use <foo:rdf | 12:55 |
| paulproteus | Just superfluous. | 12:55 |
| nathany | i make a mistake in a lot of that old code that's pretty common -- ignoring namespaces | 12:55 |
| hdworak | and it's perfectly valid RDF for describing a license among other things? | 12:55 |
| nathany | we should probably warn about it since lots of people parse RDF in a namespace ignorant way | 12:56 |
| nathany | but it's legal, yes | 12:56 |
| *** nathany is now known as nathany_focused | 12:56 | |
| paulproteus | BTW: http://paulproteus.acm.jhu.edu/screenshot1.jpg | 12:56 |
| paulproteus | That was my server for most of Tuesday. | 12:56 |
| hdworak | getEncoding in support.py (ccValidator) ignored the mean of expressing the character encoding that has the highest priority - HTTP header | 12:57 |
| ankitg | heh ... console shuts up ... | 12:57 |
| paulproteus | Yeah, zing. | 12:57 |
| hdworak | (when we are considering remote files, not direct input) | 12:57 |
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| hdworak | html_quote - what's the point of escaping (as entities) quotes and apostrophes? | 12:59 |
| hdworak | (quotes are actually escaped here) | 12:59 |
| nathany_focused | paulproteus: your email forward has changed; please confirm that you received my confirmation msg as expected | 12:59 |
| paulproteus | nathany_focused, Got it, thanks. | 12:59 |
| hdworak | what is magnet (magnetic)? | 13:00 |
| hdworak | mag_regex = re.compile('urn:sha1:[a-zA-Z0-9]*') | 13:00 |
| hdworak | is this an eMule link? | 13:00 |
| hdworak | :) | 13:00 |
| paulproteus | http://www.magnetlink.org/ ? | 13:00 |
| paulproteus | Seems to be http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnet:_URI_scheme | 13:00 |
| hdworak | ah, it's KaZaA, not eMule | 13:01 |
| hdworak | thanks for the link | 13:01 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, Agreed, that getEncoding thing is a bug. | 13:01 |
| hdworak | in autolink we have | 13:02 |
| hdworak | re.compile('[a-z]*://[^ \t\n\r\f\v<>"]*') | 13:02 |
| hdworak | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/URI_scheme | 13:03 |
| hdworak | The scheme name consist of a letter followed by any combination of letters, digits, and the plus ("+"), period ("."), or hyphen ("-") characters; and is terminated by a colon (":"). | 13:03 |
| hdworak | but then again, we should have a plus sign not an asterisk | 13:03 |
| hdworak | plus double slashes are not always present, right? | 13:03 |
| paulproteus | Agreed. | 13:04 |
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| hdworak | like in mailto | 13:04 |
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| hdworak | so big thing is, how are we going to handle comments and CDATA | 13:06 |
| paulproteus | CDATA is part of none of the specs we've published, I think. | 13:06 |
| hdworak | I suggest stripping all CDATA right in the first parse | 13:06 |
| paulproteus | Why? | 13:06 |
| hdworak | 'cause they were not a part of the specification? | 13:06 |
| paulproteus | Okay, sure - but can't you just ignore them instead of removing them? | 13:07 |
| hdworak | but wait, they can be inside RDFa stuff, for instance | 13:07 |
| paulproteus | It's no big deal, I'm just curious. | 13:07 |
| paulproteus | Feel free to say, "Whatever, not worth arguing about". | 13:07 |
| hdworak | no, actually we're both wrong imho | 13:07 |
| paulproteus | Why's that? | 13:07 |
| hdworak | just a sec, I'm gonna find an example of RDFa | 13:08 |
| paulproteus | BTW, can we communicate more in the form of code and less in the form of IRC? | 13:08 |
| paulproteus | I guess we'll get to that eventually. | 13:08 |
| paulproteus | But this is the reason I like tests, you see. | 13:08 |
| paulproteus | While this *is* logged, I don't find IRC logs particularly easy to digest afterwards anyway. | 13:09 |
| paulproteus | Which is why I want to make sure what we discuss here goes onto a wikip age. | 13:09 |
| hdworak | everything relevant goes into unit tests and on the Wiki | 13:09 |
| hdworak | do not worry about that | 13:09 |
| paulproteus | Okay, great. | 13:09 |
| hdworak | but I'm not gonna post on Wiki one-sentence questions | 13:10 |
| hdworak | 'cause I think it's IRC that should be used for that | 13:10 |
| hdworak | but the OUTCOMES of these questions - sure | 13:10 |
| paulproteus | That makes good sense. | 13:10 |
| hdworak | other way, cc Wiki turns into a phpBB forum | 13:10 |
| paulproteus | The nice thing about writing the questions on the wiki is I can answer them in batch. | 13:11 |
| paulproteus | But that's not so important, and besides, that makes me more likely to put it off. (-; | 13:11 |
| hdworak | in RDFa, is the actual TEXT (not attribute values) ever used? (in terms of parsing for license) | 13:11 |
| hdworak | ? | 13:11 |
| paulproteus | The text inside a tag, you mean? | 13:12 |
| paulproteus | Like "text" in <tag>text</tag> ? | 13:12 |
| hdworak | <a rel="license" href="http://this.is.very.important">and this????</a> | 13:12 |
| hdworak | yes | 13:12 |
| paulproteus | Not for rel="license", I think, but it can be for other RDFa things. | 13:12 |
| hdworak | ok, so then CDATA will affect RDFa, too | 13:12 |
| hdworak | but it will 100% sure affect RDF | 13:12 |
| hdworak | this is why we cannot ignore it or remove it | 13:13 |
| paulproteus | Right, so just treat it normally. | 13:13 |
| hdworak | because in RDF the object does matter | 13:13 |
| paulproteus | Ignore it when it's irrelevant, and don't when it's not. (-; | 13:13 |
| hdworak | and object can be in CDATA | 13:13 |
| hdworak | like the example I extracted from the data: URI by na-tha-ny yesterday | 13:14 |
| hdworak | http://pastebin.com/f143f5fdf | 13:14 |
| paulproteus | You can write "NY" for short. | 13:15 |
| hdworak | it has <dc:title>Compilers in the Key of C</dc:title> | 13:15 |
| paulproteus | Ya. | 13:15 |
| hdworak | but it (="Compilers in the Key of C") could easily be in CDATA as well | 13:15 |
| paulproteus | Agreed. | 13:15 |
| hdworak | so then again, were there ever any unit tests for ccValidator and related? | 13:16 |
| hdworak | so that I could use them now | 13:16 |
| paulproteus | I don't think so. )-: | 13:16 |
| hdworak | ok :) | 13:16 |
| hdworak | I've been looking for software for feed parsing | 13:16 |
| hdworak | and I've stumbled upon the feedparser by Mark Pilgrim | 13:17 |
| paulproteus | Widely-used, well-maintained as I recall. | 13:17 |
| hdworak | the documentation says it allows extracting license info | 13:17 |
| paulproteus | So BTW, I never actually managed to get to the office. I should probably take 15m and go do that. | 13:17 |
| hdworak | but there are two problems with it: | 13:17 |
| paulproteus | (Let me know when you get to an ok stopping point) | 13:18 |
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| hdworak | (btw relevant part of the doc is http://www.feedparser.org/docs/reference-feed-license.html ) | 13:18 |
| hdworak | problem #1: the author says there are 3000 unit tests for that. unfortunately, the word "license" cannot be found in any of them | 13:19 |
| paulproteus | (I'm sure he'd say, "Then submit one!") | 13:20 |
| paulproteus | (But that's pretty surprising.) | 13:20 |
| hdworak | problem #2: it ignores ATOM means of expressing a license and xmlns:creativeCommons for RSS 2.0 | 13:21 |
| hdworak | if he would add that, I could use his code for feeds, huh? | 13:21 |
| paulproteus | That's probably true, but you might do well to implement that logic yourself since it's so easy. | 13:22 |
| paulproteus | It would be good to submit a patch + unit test for feedparser, though! | 13:23 |
| hdworak | is this namespace deprecated http://web.resource.org/cc/ | 13:26 |
| hdworak | ? | 13:26 |
| paulproteus | Yes. | 13:26 |
| paulproteus | So you would do well to point out its use and suggest a move. | 13:27 |
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| paulproteus | tt y'all later, lunchtime | 13:57 |
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| * paulproteus waves. | 15:32 | |
| hdworak | :) | 15:32 |
| hdworak | back from lunch? | 15:32 |
| paulproteus | Ya. | 15:37 |
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| hdworak | ok, so I should annotate with FIXME whenever I see a bug? | 15:39 |
| hdworak | but are those cc* packages at the git repository? | 15:39 |
| paulproteus | You probably don't have commit access to the Subversion repository. | 15:39 |
| paulproteus | I can put your key in there, just a sec. | 15:39 |
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| hdworak | ah, it's on the SVN | 15:41 |
| paulproteus | What username do you want to show up as in the logs? | 15:42 |
| paulproteus | hugo, or hdworak, or something else? | 15:42 |
| hdworak | Hugo Dworak | 15:43 |
| hdworak | isn't possible? | 15:43 |
| paulproteus | Well, this is the "UNIX username" field. | 15:43 |
| paulproteus | I don't think spaces are allowed, and everyone else's name is lowercase. | 15:43 |
| hdworak | hdworak then :) | 15:43 |
| hdworak | no need to make exceptions | 15:43 |
| paulproteus | And BTW, in addition to "fixme" it would probably be good to write (1) your name and (2) a long description of the bug, and maybe also (3) the date in ISO date format (e.g. 2008-06-04) that you added the remark. | 15:44 |
| paulproteus | You can now check out things using the svn+ssh access described at code.creativecommons.org. | 15:44 |
| paulproteus | And commit too. | 15:45 |
| paulproteus | Using either of the keys that have access to git. | 15:45 |
| paulproteus | nathany_focused, If you have a sec to set up another API install on a8, that'd be great. | 15:45 |
| hdworak | okay, thanks | 15:46 |
| nathany_focused | paulproteus: i don't at this moment, trying to get NO launched | 15:46 |
| paulproteus | Carry on then! | 15:46 |
| paulproteus | nathany_focused, Would now be an okay time for me to transition the a8 sites back onto a8, or does that conflict with your NO launch? | 15:54 |
| nathany_focused | should be fine | 15:54 |
| paulproteus | Great. | 15:54 |
| hdworak | good night :) | 15:57 |
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| paulproteus | Night! | 15:59 |
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