Tuesday, 2010-11-23

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nyerglerparoneayea: ping17:06
paroneayeanyergler: pong17:08
nyerglerparoneayea: just wanted to chat re: finland 1.0 briefly17:09
paroneayeanyergler: yup..17:09
nyerglerare look-ups currently done using a combination of jurisdiction + identifier?17:09
paroneayeanyergler: yes17:09
nyergleri see17:09
nyerglerand then we take max(version) of that set?17:09
paroneayeanyergler: iirc anyway, pulling up the code to back that up17:10
nyerglerso there are two issues here17:10
nyerglerfirst, in 1.0 we ordered the identifier elements differently17:10
nyerglerhence by-nd-nc instead of by-nc-nd17:11
paroneayeaand I'm sensing that changing the identifier inside the RDF is unacceptable?17:11
nyerglerwell it's sort of a hack (since the identifier really isn't by-nc-nd)17:12
paroneayeawe're gonna have a hack here no matter what17:12
nyergleri wonder if we couldn't add a catch for these 1.0 jurisdictions17:12
nyerglerjurisdiction singular, i guess17:12
nyerglercan you point me to the place in the code where that selection takes place?17:12
nyergleri'm thinking something like17:13
nyerglerif not found and contains nd and contains nc, look for the old-style ordering17:13
paroneayeanyergler: once you see how this code works you're going to want to shoot yourself17:13
nyerglerhow's that for literate programming? :)17:13
* paroneayea glad he didn't write it, thusly17:13
nyerglerparoneayea: i have that reaction on a regular basis lately, what's another hole in the head?17:13
paroneayeanyergler: okay, I'll try to describe how this code works, but it's a long trip down the rabbit hole17:14
nyerglerparoneayea: can you point me to a file/line so i can look at it as well?17:14
nyergleralso, maybe i should tell you what the second issue is, as well :)17:14
paroneayeayes I'm doing that :)17:14
paroneayeago ahead, I'm typing up the description in a second buffer :)17:15
nyerglerso the other issue is that 1.0 SA licenses aren't upward compatible17:15
nyerglerso we should really never issue a 1.0, ported SA license these days17:15
nyerglerideally if someone asks for an SA license and winds up with a 1.0, we just return the latest unported equivalent17:16
nyerglertangential thought: if we modified cc.license with that behavior, would that also screw us on "details" (by_url) calls?17:17
nyerglernot sure how much reuse there is there17:17
paroneayeaby_code called from:17:19
paroneayeawhich iterates over every selector, calling and checking Selector.by_code:17:19
paroneayeawhich transforms the parameters into a URI through dict2uri, and then uses that to call by_uri()17:19
paroneayeaso you should probably look at dict2uri:17:19
paroneayeaAt this point, looking at dict2uri code, if you hadn't wanted to shoot yourself in the face already, you'll want a machinegun to do the job now.17:19
paroneayeawhy this doesn't do a fucking RDF query, I have no fucking idea17:19
paroneayeait is such a piece of shit17:20
paroneayeasorry, that's a bit over the top17:20
nyerglerok, let me look at those lines17:20
nyerglermlinksva says it's clearly time to flip a fucking table17:20
paroneayea      \/            .------17:21
paroneayea      o o ;;       /\\     \    $  __17:21
paroneayea      ' C ||      // \\     #     /_/17:21
paroneayea        \//      // //\\     \17:21
paroneayea         )             \\     \   %17:21
paroneayea        \\              \\_____\17:21
paroneayea        | )            //-------17:21
paroneayea       /_/_           //     //17:21
paroneayea           LOSE YOUR SHIT17:21
paroneayea         FLIP A FUKKEN TABLE17:21
nyerglerwow, that's sort of epic17:23
paroneayeain one of the channels I idle in it became popular enough to inspire several followups: http://dustycloud.org/tmp/tableflip_followups.txt17:23
paroneayeabut anyway17:24
nyergleri was referring to the code17:25
nyerglerbut yes, the table is quite epic as well17:25
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nyerglerone second, looking at test coverage in hudson17:25
paroneayeathe test coverage is actually rather good17:25
paroneayeaso refactoring this should be rather doable17:25
nyergleryeah, it's quite good17:26
paroneayeaif we could roll together a reimplementation of by_code and by_uri17:27
paroneayeaalong with a sensible exception here17:27
paroneayeaI'd be pretty happy17:27
paroneayeaI think, reasonably, the RDF *should* be good enough for handling both by_code and by_uri17:27
nyergleri sort of wonder if this was done for performance reasons17:28
paroneayeaI think if we cache the results17:28
nyerglerdo you remember what bit of code was doing an RDF query that took forever? (JED3, maybe you do?)17:28
paroneayeaoh I remember17:28
paroneayeahold on, pulling it up17:28
CC_HudsonProject cc.license build (39): UNSTABLE in 3 min 11 sec: http://code.creativecommons.org/hudson/job/cc.license/39/17:30
CC_Hudson* Christopher Allan Webber: We're not using that i18n stuff.  Apparently I put this here when I17:30
CC_Hudson* Christopher Allan Webber: Added get_jurisdiction_languages17:30
CC_Hudson* Christopher Allan Webber: Technically it's cc.license._lib17:30
CC_Hudson* Christopher Allan Webber: Added test_get_jurisdiction_languages unit test17:30
CC_Hudson* Christopher Allan Webber: Added two jurisdiction tests: test_default_language and test_languages17:30
CC_Hudson* Christopher Allan Webber: Added the Jurisdiction.langugages property/function17:30
CC_Hudson* Christopher Allan Webber: New version number17:30
CC_Hudson* Christopher Allan Webber: We're not using that i18n stuff.  Apparently I put this here when I17:31
paroneayeaokay maybe I'm wrong17:33
paroneayeaI know what happened though17:33
paroneayeaquery = RDF.Query("""PREFIX cc: <http://creativecommons.org/ns#>17:33
paroneayeaPREFIX rdf: <http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#>17:33
paroneayeaSELECT ?jurisdiction17:33
paroneayea{ ?license rdf:type cc:License .17:33
paroneayea  ?license cc:class <http://creativecommons.org/license/> .17:34
paroneayea  ?license cc:jurisdiction ?jurisdiction }""", query_language="sparql")17:34
paroneayeaI think it was that17:34
nyergleroh, right17:34
paroneayeawhen you did rdf:type17:34
paroneayeaand anything else17:34
paroneayeait was fairly fast once I split it into one query plus a list comprehension :P17:34
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paroneayeanyergler: anyway, I think I can make it work17:35
paroneayeaeven if I have to do that workaround17:35
paroneayeaand it should be fast enough with caching I think, but we can test it to be srue17:35
nyerglerwhat are you working on right now? (ie, what's in your queue)17:36
nyerglerguess i can look @ roundup17:36
nyerglerchooser translation stuff, i guess?17:36
paroneayearoundup:709, I was starting on tests this morning17:36
paroneayeaalong with responding to that email on cci about the disclaimer non-translation17:37
paroneayeawhich is resolved17:37
paroneayeaI'm pretty flexible anyway17:37
nyerglerso i think that getting that translation issue fixed is slightly more important; i'd focus on writing the test necessary to track down the issue, not a full test suite for cc.i18n17:37
nyergler(in case i wasn't clear in my comments on the ticket)17:37
paroneayeanyergler: so do you think you could write up how that exception could work, you think?17:38
nyerglerwe want the full suite eventually, but i think we need to focus on the actual issue17:38
paroneayeaat that point, after 709 works, I think I could do this by_code issue17:38
paroneayeaif that makes sense to you17:38
paroneayeanow I'm gonna take a few notes and run so I don't leave morgan sitting alone too long at lunch, I'm late :)17:38
nyerglerand you can look @ making by_code use a SPARQL query; it's possible we didn't have dc:identifier everywhere17:38
nyerglersounds good, ping me if you have any questions, i'll make the ticket now17:39
nyerglertell morgan thank you for her patience ;)17:39
paroneayeacool, thx :)17:39
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CC_HudsonYippie, build fixed!18:47
CC_HudsonProject cc.license build (40): FIXED in 2 min 6 sec: http://code.creativecommons.org/hudson/job/cc.license/40/18:47
CC_HudsonNathan R. Yergler: Fixed selector ID test to pass for Public Domain Mark.18:47
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mattlparoneayea: hey... can you point http://creativecommons.org/licenses/GPL/2.0/ at us now?18:56
paroneayeamattl: I'm not sure that one's as easy, but I'm not the one to make that decision18:56
paroneayeanyergler and mike linksvayer probably would have a better say in that18:56
paroneayea(I don't mean "as easy" techwise)18:57
nyerglermattl: we can redirect the deeds, but we'll need to keep serving up the Portuguese legal code (ie, http://creativecommons.org/licenses/GPL/2.0/legalcode.pt)18:58
nyerglercan you tell me what URLs to use?18:58
nyerglerfor GPL 2.0 and LGPL 2.118:58
paroneayeait should be super simple to do.  nyergler: I could even do that now and have it up within an hour w/ tests, or we could wait till after my current stuff is done19:02
nyerglermattl: thanks19:02
paroneayeanyergler: I'm assuming we'll want to keep the rdf and etc though19:02
nyerglerparoneayea: I'm opening a ticket; slot it in after the current i18n, by-nd-nc work, please19:03
nyerglerparoneayea: yes, i'm making a couple notes about what we'll continue to serve19:03
mattlwe have our own rdf URLs. i can give you those.19:03
paroneayeamattl: links?19:03
paroneayeanyergler: kk, sounds grood19:03
nyerglermattl: thanks, noting those on the ticket as well19:05
nyerglermattl: paroneayea: see http://code.creativecommons.org/issues/issue72719:05
nyerglermattl, our bug tracker sucks, so you may or may not want to create an account and add yourself as nosy on that19:06
nyerglerup to yuo19:06
mattli like all this public ticket stuff.19:06
mattlwe use RT.19:06
nyerglerdo you like RT? it seems like a swiss army knife (in the best -- and perhaps worst -- way possible)19:07
mattlthe UI blows, but it's actually good.19:07
mattlprior to RT, i used FogBugz in my government job.19:07
nyerglerwell our UI blows, and it's just so-so, so i guess that's an improvement :)19:07
mattlFogBugz -- good UI, but the software blows.19:07
mattlalso, nonfree.19:07
paroneayeacwebber's law: every programmer at some point will get tired of how bad every bugtracker is, will try to make a new one, but it will end up at least as terrible or worse19:08
mattlparoneayea: i've never written a bugtracker, or a text editor, or a VCS, or a web server. i have worked a lot with Zope though, so for all my goodness, I am still bad.19:09
paroneayeamattl: you're young, you still have time in your career to write a terrible bugtracker19:09
nyerglerperhaps using ZClasses ;)19:09
mattlmy programming career is over, bro.19:10
paroneayeamy roundup + orgmode setup keeps me from being too disgruntled: http://labs.creativecommons.org/2010/11/10/bridging-public-bugtrackers-and-local-tasklists/19:14
paroneayeaanyway, back to this i18n issue!  the sooner I get done with these things, the sooner we can redirect [L]GPL away from CC ;)19:14
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greg-gjust because I think this is awesome, I pasting it here as well: http://www.lib.umich.edu/open-access-bibliographic-records19:51
greg-gwarning, the MARCXML files is 174 megs :)19:52
paroneayeagreg-g: awesome19:59
paroneayea<nodelete>    AAAAA19:59
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paroneayea<nodelete>           /_/_                    ####  ####19:59
paroneayea<nodelete>               TRY TO GIVE A CAT19:59
paroneayea<nodelete>                 A FUKKEN BATH19:59
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mralexJED3: actually, i might revise the site banners in cc5/site.js — so i'll let you know if any commits go in21:24
JED3mralex: ahh its not important, i'm checking the repo out now21:25
JED3thanks tho!21:26
JED3paroneayea: mralex: safe to update on a5's ccwordpress checkout?21:49
mralexJED3: production? yes21:50
paroneayeaJED3: afaik yeah21:52
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JonTheNiceGuyHi all. I'm here seen as bradley kuhn mentioned the channel on identi.ca, and i'm working on an audio cc based project at cchits.net.23:15
JonTheNiceGuyI was wondering though. The site uses festival's text-to-speech engine to generate text from an AGPL licensed code base. Can/should I license that as creative commons, or should it be AGPL licensed, in the same way that AGPL'd code needs to be AGPL licensed when rendered?23:20
JonTheNiceGuyOr, is that out of scope for this channel? :-)23:21
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JonTheNiceGuyactually, I might be back for this discussion tomorrow.23:30
JonTheNiceGuyspeak tomorrow.23:30
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