Thursday, 2010-11-18

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nkinkadeJED3: When you booted that rack server in the office the other day, do you recall why it was hung on boot?00:07
nkinkadeWas the BIOS waiting for input or something?00:07
JED3nkinkade: yes00:08
nkinkadeJED3: But do you know why?00:08
JED3nkinkade: no i didn't see the message, i hit the enter key before the screen was connected00:08
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akozaknkinkade, at isc it was the bios. wish i could remember the reason.00:34
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paroneayeankinkade: nyergler: looks like there have been a whole bunch of translations done since we made that announcement on cc-affiliates :D14:45
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paroneayeamostly by 3 people, but that's still good14:47
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JED3paroneayea: ping18:22
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paroneayeaJED3: pong19:04
paroneayeasorry was at lunch19:04
paroneayeaJED3: so what's up19:07
JED3paroneayea: hey, well 2 things.19:07
JED3first, can you update i18n again, i had to make a change to the license.explain string after you updated those strings last time :/19:08
JED3the 2nd thing, i just made a cwebber inspired ascii mockup in a roundup issue :)19:09
paroneayeaI can update license.explain but it might make that ./bin/sync error x_x19:10
paroneayeawhich I need to look into today19:10
paroneayeahow urgent is the updating19:10
paroneayeathere's an error where ./bin/sync is propagating errors, and I need to investigate it because it's blocking translations19:10
JED3paroneayea: fairly urgent :/19:11
JED3i sent out an email to the affiliates notifying that the string had recently been marked as fuzzy19:11
JED3and now we're about to refuzzy it :/19:11
paroneayeatwo conflicting i18n problems!19:11
paroneayeaI'll operate on it asap though19:11
* JED3 head explodes19:11
paroneayeaso you updated cc_org.po right19:12
JED3now, want me to update the master po?19:12
paroneayeamaster, I mean19:12
paroneayeaI can do it if you tell me what to do19:12
paroneayeankinkade: this means I may repopulate the error again immediately after I do this19:12
nkinkadeparoneayea: We don't want that to happen.19:13
nkinkadeI've now fixed the NL and DE PO files.  If that error gets reintroduced then it will prevent either affiliate from being able to translate.19:13
JED3its needs an 'a' before the link to /about/licenses19:14
paroneayeathen there's one of two things that's going to happen19:14
paroneayea 1) The push of this fuzzy translation will be postponed until I get that error fixed (not sure how long that'll take)19:14
paroneayea 2) I'll push the error again19:14
paroneayeaone way or another someone's going to be unhappy with me :\19:14
nkinkadeparoneayea: Personally I'd say we shouldn't be pushing anything broken to the repo, so in my mind #1 take precedence.19:17
paroneayeankinkade: okay, re-looking at the email you sent me19:17
paroneayea <- so these files are the ones breaking?19:17
paroneayeathose aren't the cc-style ones19:17
paroneayeathe cc style ones are the ones in cc/i18n/i18n, not cc/i18n/po19:18
nkinkadeparoneayea:  Was my email not clear enough?19:18
paroneayeankinkade: for some reason this error is confusing the hell out of me. :\19:18
nkinkadeI feel like I've described this several times in detail in several emails.19:18
paroneayeaI'm going to re-read again!19:18
nkinkadeI mean, I want you to understand this, but I'm not sure I know how to spell it out more clearly.19:19
nkinkadeThis simplest explanation I can come up with is this, I think: read my email from earlier this morning, look at those two commits I reference, and figure out why your commit reintroduced the error that my commit fixed.19:20
paroneayeankinkade: yes I've got that, I think the reason I've been confused is that the ones in cc/i18n/po/ that you're saying are breaking and fixing aren't the "cc-style" ones, which is what you keep saying gets broken or fixed on these commits19:21
paroneayeaunless I've got myself backwards here19:22
nkinkadeparoneayea: Right.  I fix the only one we keep in version control.19:22
paroneayeaanyway, yes, looking at why that python-format gets introduced now19:22
nkinkadeI'm only saying that I *suspect* that it the cc-style PO that reintroduces the problem when you run sync.19:22
nkinkadeparoneayea: This is a problem for the issue at hand with python-format, but it's actually a larger issue.19:22
paroneayeahow is it a larger issue19:23
nkinkadeIt's manifesting this way now, but could conceivable affect any other change one might make.19:23
paroneayeankinkade: okay19:23
nkinkadeUpshot: we can't have sync stomping on changes/fixes to the PO file.19:23
paroneayearight, agreed19:23
paroneayeaalright, dissecting the script19:24
nkinkadeIt's python-format now, but could be some other thing in a month.19:24
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paroneayeaI'm starting to think this is a babel error20:40
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paroneayeankinkade: if I straight up read_po the file with babel, before I even do any operations on it, the "fixed" file20:41
paroneayeababel thinks there's that flag on it20:41
paroneayeaeven though it isn't there X_X20:41
paroneayeawhy is this?  noooooooooo idea.20:42
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nkinkadeparoneayea: Dang.  From an earlier email, I mentioned that I suspected that some tool is mistaking some HTML character entity as a variable ... could that be it?20:42
paroneayeankinkade: quite possibly, not sure20:44
paroneayeatotally bizarre20:44
nkinkadeparoneayea: Can you bring this up with Nathan?  For the moment, I think we'll just need to manually intervene when we run sync.20:45
paroneayeankinkade: I'll bring it up20:46
nkinkadeDE and NL are two very active jurisdictions and I don't feel okay about pushing POs to Transifex so that neither can translate.20:46
paroneayeankinkade: right20:47
paroneayeabefore I send out that email I'm going to try and do some digging to find out where in babel it sets that flag20:47
paroneayeait looks like babel auto-decides whether something is python-format or not20:54
nkinkadeparoneayea: Then it's a bug, I'd say.  No?20:54
nkinkadeBecause it appears to be misidentifying it.20:54
paroneayeahold on20:55
paroneayeaI'm trying to look through this thread again20:55
paroneayeaand find out why it was breaking transifext to have that flag set20:55
nkinkadeparoneayea: Is there any flag or argument for babel such that it doesn't do that?20:55
paroneayeankinkade: not afaict20:55
nkinkadeparoneayea: "cc/i18n/po/nl/cc_org.po:1287: number of format specifications in 'msgid' and 'msgstr' does not match"20:55
paroneayeasee, I don't know much about python-format20:56
nkinkadeThat's the error that msgfmt is returning, and the one one on which Transifex is choking20:56
paroneayeawhat it's used for20:56
nkinkadeI don't either!20:56
nkinkadeI assume it's a flag that lets a translator know that some part of the string contains python code or a variable that shouldn't be touched.20:56
paroneayeaI bet I know why it's happening too ;)20:57
paroneayea%2ds ;)20:57
paroneayeaand etc20:58
paroneayeamaybe it thinks this is string-substitution?20:58
* paroneayea wild guessing20:58
* paroneayea looks more at what this is used for20:58
paroneayeankinkade: at least we have an idea of what's going on now though20:58
paroneayeankinkade: yeah, so that's what's happening21:01
paroneayeareturn bool(filter(None, [ for id in ids]))21:01
paroneayeait's seeing escaped portions of the url parameters21:01
paroneayeaas well as the stuff that comes afterward21:01
paroneayeaand it looks like %5f21:01
paroneayeawhich isn't supposed to be for substitution21:01
paroneayeabut babel assumes, okay, well it must be21:01
paroneayeankinkade: there may be a way to not have this happen by cross-referencing with master21:02
paroneayeaand stripping out python-format if it's set here but not in master21:02
paroneayeaer, master/cc_org.po21:02
nkinkadeHmmm.  Yeah.  That seems like a bad assumption.  In any case, for babel to produce a PO that doesn't validate with msgfmt definitely seems like a butg.21:02
paroneayeaagree, it's a bad assumption21:03
paroneayeabut I think we can cross-reference with master/cc_org.po21:03
nkinkadeWell, in this case not only is it a bad assumption, but it apparently produces a mal-formed PO file, which is a bug.21:03
paroneayeaand that'll help avoid madness like this :)21:03
paroneayeayes but somehow I suspect there's no way to get around the way the babel team has written their code for these assumptions21:04
paroneayeaI'll look at fixing our tool, then maybe I'll file a bug with Babel, but I'm sure it'll get closed with WONTFIX/NOTABUG21:04
* nyergler jumps in with only partial understanding21:09
nyerglereh, nevermind21:09
akozakI'm getting a broken CC BY image on the cc wiki.21:13 having problems?21:13
akozakI can't seem to connect to it.21:13
akozaknkinkade, ^^21:13
nkinkadeakozak: What is the IP address you are getting for
nkinkadeIf you're getting anything other than, then there is a seriously stale, and bad, DNS cache out there.21:15
nkinkadeparoneayea: How could babel possible mark an issue like that as wontfix?21:15
nkinkadeIf the output produces a PO file that isn't formatted correctly by one of the most industry standard tools, gettext.21:16
paroneayeankinkade: fair enough, fair enough21:16
nkinkadeI mean, I'm not saying they won't, it would just astonish me.21:17
* paroneayea pessimistic, and hasn't thought enough about it to suggest how babel should fix the problem21:17
akozaknkinkade, dumb question, but do I use 'host' to lookup what the IP for a domain is from my perspective?21:18
nkinkadeakozak: Yeah, host works.21:18
nkinkadeOr just ping.21:18
nkinkadeping will resolve the name.21:19
nkinkadeBut host is probably easier.21:19
akozakunknown host, and host says 'Host not found: 2(SERVFAIL)'21:19
akozakwhich is why I wasn't sure if I was doing it right21:19
nkinkadeakozak: What does your /etc/resolv.conf look like?21:24
nkinkadeakozak: Remove the http://21:24
nkinkadeWe're just looking up a hostname, not a webpage. :-)21:25
akozakoh duh21:25
akozakit didnt work the first time because I left hte trailing /21:25
akozakso i thought, i must need the http:// too :P21:25
akozakyea its old21:25
nkinkadeYou shouldn't have the trailing slash either.21:25
akozakyea I left it on for some dumb reason21:25
nkinkadeakozak: It must be the office router holding that address.  Let me refresh it.21:26
paroneayeankinkade: looks like I figured out how to make it not do that anymore :)21:26
nkinkadeThat sucks, because it means a lot of other broken DNS caches are still serving up a bad address.21:26
nkinkadeparoneayea: !21:26
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nkinkadeNice!  And maybe this means I don't have to get upset about the babel devs marking the issue as wontfix.21:27
paroneayeaJED3: this also means I can now push out your thing21:27
paroneayeaeveryone wins!21:28
nkinkadeakozak: Try host again.21:28
nkinkadeparoneayea: Was it a code fix, or something nice?21:28
paroneayeankinkade: code fix21:29
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nkinkadeparoneayea: Thanks!  And it's nice that the fix is in our code and not in babel's.21:32
nkinkadeakozak: What is the content of /etc/resolv.conf?21:37
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akozakmy nameserver is my router nameserver
akozak(im at home)21:39
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akozakmy router's dns servers are and
akozaknkinkade, ^^21:41
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nkinkadeakozak: Okay.  That would explain why me refreshing the CC office router didn't help you.21:45
nkinkadeakozak: Try refreshing your router ... may take a reboot?21:45
akozaknkinkade, ok ill try that but not right now. I was just worried something was wrong with the server itself21:47
akozakif its just a dns cache issue then its not urgent right?21:48
nkinkadeakozak: Not really, but it's discouraging because if you're having that problem then many other will be too.  Though the machine with the IP you have is back up now, so things should be okay.21:49
paroneayeaJED3: ur thing, iz fixed21:50
JED3paroneayea: thx!21:50
paroneayeaJED3: want me to update live?21:50
JED3paroneayea: thatd be grand21:50
akozaknkinkade, just released and renewed my dhcp lease and its now .521:51
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nkinkadeIt shouldn't have been a DHCP issue, but as long as it's working now.21:52
akozaktbh I know embarrassingly little about network stuff21:52
akozaki.e. why does my router have anything to do with this21:53
akozakdoes it cache IPs?21:53
akozakfor domains?21:53
JED3akozak: yes, there's virtually a cache at every level21:59
JED3your machine, your router, your isp, etc.22:00
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akozakso its caches all the way down22:12
paroneayeaJED3: nice ascii art :)22:13
JED3paroneayea: thx :)22:16
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JED3paroneayea: have you read this before?
paroneayeaJED3: nope, looking22:52
JED3great set of guidelines, just came across this morning22:52
paroneayeayeah, does look good22:55
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andreewanyone here23:12
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