Thursday, 2010-10-21

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ader10paroneayea: too much emacs, not enough Futurama03:39
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nyerglerpaulproteus: ping17:13
paulproteusnyergler: pong17:13
paulproteusI missed you yesterday on #discovered17:14
nyerglerno worries, orthogonal question17:14
paulproteusBut this might not be about that, but I do know about it. (-:17:14
paulproteusSure, fire away.17:14
nyergleri'm configuring a new server, have a vague recollection that there's some risk in doing LVM for *everything*17:14
nyergler(ie, not keeping a small "normal" partition for /boot17:14
paulproteusOh, then there's booting...17:14
paulproteusLong story:
paulproteusShort story: sometimes the filesystem wants to make sure that its writes go all the way down, that they've "stuck".17:15
paulproteusLVM makes that harder, or at least it did in 2008.17:15
paulproteusAnd says that barriers work with LVM now.17:16
paulproteusOkay, so as for booting -- the installer should warn you if it won't work, so given that, do what you like.17:16
nyerglerfair enough17:16
paulproteusI think grub2 is suuuper flexible so it should bascially certainly be fine.17:16
nyerglerdoes 5.06 use grub2?17:17
paulproteusAre you doing RAID?17:17
paulproteusWhat does 5.06 refer to?17:17
nyerglerLVM on top of software RAID 1 is how i have it set up right now17:17
nyergler5.0.6? not sure of the exact #... latest stable17:17
paulproteusOh, okay. Nah, if you're using Debian stable, then it's not grub2, but the installer will warn you if you do anything too crazy.17:18
nyerglerok thanks17:18
paulproteusI would still suggest RAID 1 for /boot though.17:18
nyerglerw/o LVM you mean?17:18
paulproteusIt just seems more nice to the booting system to not have it bother with LVM.17:18
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paroneayeanyergler: when you get a chance, would be good to know if counts as closable to you or not17:46
nyerglerparoneayea: if things get updated in a predictable manner, i'm ok to close17:47
nyerglerplease reply to the CC Taiwan thread as well17:47
paroneayeaok, will do17:47
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nyerglernkinkade: ping18:31
nkinkadenyergler: Hi.18:31
nyergleri'm installing debian on the new hardware18:31
nkinkadeI've been in and out of #cc for a while because I'm having network problems.18:31
nyergleri assume i can just tell you the IP and give you an account, you can take it from there18:31
nkinkadeProvider is up and down.18:31
nkinkadenyergler: yeah.18:31
nyergleri'm going to make a patch cable so i can return the one i stole from the time capsule18:31
nkinkadenyergler: But it's in the office right?18:31
nyerglershould be up shortly18:31
nyergleri'm planning to get the base install done, hand off to you18:32
nkinkadenyergler:  Is the 2nd disk in it already?18:32
nyerglerping ISC for new IP address so you can finish configuration while i'm traveling18:32
nyerglerand i configured RAID1 @ install time18:32
nkinkadeOh, nice!18:32
nkinkadeThere was a side of me that was curious to see how ti went with starting with a degraded array, but this is better. :-)18:33
nkinkadeI'll say that tethering through my N900 is quite nice, and I can get speeds over 1mbps, but latency is so high that ssh is useless.  Useless, I say!18:33
nkinkadeWhich is sad, because ssh is half of what I do in any given day.18:34
paroneayeayeah and it disconnects a lot18:36
paroneayeathe ssh sessions18:37
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nkinkadeIt makes me wonder if perhaps tmobile is prioritizing traffic across their data network and giving ultra low priority to port 22 traffic.18:41
paroneayeaI wouldn't doubt it.18:42
nkinkadeJED3:  The scraper is at /apps/deed, right?18:47
JED3nkinkade: correct18:47
nkinkadeJED3: Does the scraper javascript do some basic checks, like if a referrer exists in the request, etc?  Anything else?18:52
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JED3wont do anything unless there is a referrer18:54
nkinkadeGot it.  It would appear that only about 1 in 3 requests have a referrer.18:55
JED3nkinkade: oh really?18:56
nkinkadeJED3: Yeah, I was surprised.  I'm looking at some apache logs over the past few days.18:57
nkinkadeYesterday, for example, there were around 232,000 requests for URLs like /licenses/by, and only about 74,000 requests for URLs like /apps/deed18:58
nkinkadeSame rough average holds for todays log.18:58
nkinkadeDay before yesterday: 228,000 deeds, only 74,000 scraper requests.19:00
JED3hmm, i wonder what accounts for that difference though19:00
JED3robots, js disabled clients, proxies?19:01
JED3i guess also that path would also match requests for the plain deed, or people who click on a language link19:02
JED3well maybe not the latter, since there would still be a referer set19:02
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nyerglernkinkade: new hardware is up19:05
nkinkadenyergler: Thanks.19:06
nyerglernkinkade: see private chat for IP, etc19:07
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paroneayeahey nyergler, when you get a sec could you follow up on
paroneayeanyergler: totally points to
paroneayeanyergler: would you also prefer that I update those pages to point to the images (the correct ones?)21:31
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nyerglerparoneayea: yes, please21:35
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nkinkadenyergler: Am I wrong or did you intend to order the new machine with 2G of memory?22:18
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paroneayeaJED3: ping22:37
JED3paroneayea: hey22:37
paroneayeaJED3: so I have a maybe stupid question22:38
JED3paroneayea: i'm no stranger to asking those myself, shoot22:38
paroneayeaFor redirects, eg slash redirects like /choose -> /choose/ in cc.engine22:38
paroneayeaI'm currently using the HTTP Temporary Redirect code22:38
paroneayeabut I wondcer if HTTP Found is what's correct22:38
JED3paroneayea: no, you certainly need a redirect code22:39
paroneayeait is a redirect code22:39
paroneayea307 vs 30222:40
JED3oh i thought a temporary was a 30222:40
paroneayeamight be right22:40
paroneayeaaccording to that article22:40
JED3are you sure? especially for choose? does the form POST to choose or results-one?22:41
paroneayeathis is just for a slash-redirect, not used for POST, just GET22:42
paroneayea302 Found22:42
paroneayea    This is the most popular redirect code[citation needed], but also an example of industrial practice contradicting the standard.[2] HTTP/1.0 specification (RFC 1945) required the client to perform a temporary redirect (the original describing phrase was "Moved Temporarily"),[5] but popular browsers implemented 302 with the functionality of a 303 See Other. Therefore, HTTP/1.1 added status codes 303 and 307 to distinguish between the22:42
paroneayea    two behaviours. However, the majority of Web applications and frameworks still use the 302 status code as if it were the 303[6].22:42
paroneayea303 See Other (since HTTP/1.1)22:42
paroneayea    The response to the request can be found under another URI using a GET method. When received in response to a PUT, it should be assumed that the server has received the data and the redirect should be issued with a separate GET message.[2]22:42
JED3so nothing POSTs to choose?22:43
paroneayeathings post to /choose/ but not /choose22:44
JED3what posts to choose?22:44
JED3(w or w/o the slash)22:45
paroneayeaoh I gues nothing does post to choose22:45
paroneayeaI think we've made this pretty confusing22:45
akozaknkinkade, around?22:45
paroneayealol, django uses 30122:48
paroneayea301 sounds right22:49
paroneayeafor an "append slash" kind of redirect22:49
paroneayeasorry I've made a mess of this conversation, JED322:49
JED3paroneayea: no worries22:50
JED3i always just use 301 fwiw22:50
JED3never quite grokked the exact use cases for the others22:50
paroneayeaHTTP Response 418: I'm a teapot22:51
nkinkadeakozak: I'm here.  What's up?22:52
akozaknkinkade, ah, I sent you an email about it.22:53
akozaknkinkade, we got a request for stats re: how many times the Free to Learn guide PDF has been downloaded on the wiki.22:53
nkinkadeakozak: Who is that person making the request?22:53
akozaknkinkade, the guy from the communications firm.22:54
akozakMike said I should ask you (but that's in the email thread)22:54
nkinkadeWhich communications firm?22:54
nkinkadeakozak: Right, but I've never heard of that firm, or that person, or that PDF, or have a clue why they might really need some stats.  I'm trying to get the context here.22:55
nkinkadeIf it's some super important person to CC, and those stats are ultra important, then they probably can be got.22:55
akozaknkinkade, ah sorry, let me find the relevant blog post.22:55
nkinkadeBut grepping logs isn't really fun, or generally productive.22:56
akozaknkinkade, yea i can see it being a pain. maybe you could reply to the email and CC mike asking how important it is, because I don't know myself22:56
akozakI already sent over google analytics data for the wiki version22:56
nkinkadeakozak: I can reply in the email.22:56
akozakok thanks22:57
nkinkadeakozak: Sorry about the confusion, I just want to determine how important this is.  There are probably better uses of any of our time than grepping old logs, but maybe this is something super important to Mike.22:57
akozaknkinkade, yea sorry I can't say either way, Mike just asked me to ask you.22:58
akozakdon't know hwy he didn't just cc you directly22:58
akozakmaybe because he thought there was a way to get the data from mediawiki22:58
nkinkadeYeah, that was probably why.23:01
nkinkadeBut that said, I'm pretty sure Mediawiki keeps counts for articles ... not sure about files.  I'll check the db, akozak.23:01
akozaknkinkade, oh ok thanks. I didn't know of any way to get direct download stats but I suppose it might exist in the db somewhere.23:02
nkinkadeBut it may only be pages have a counter, not files ... ???23:03
nkinkade$wgDisableCounters = true;23:03
nkinkadeYeah, and I think I disabled them anyway .. that's a snip from LocalSettings.php on the wiki.23:04
nkinkadeHmm.  The file seems to be in the page table, but the counter is empty .. probably because of the setting above.23:07
nkinkadeOh well ... looks like it's rummaging through Apache logs or nothing.23:07
akozakYea that counter doesn't count direct downloads I think.23:10
akozakGotta run out for a sec, be back in a min if anything comes up.23:11
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diffract|if someone has a picture with a "no derivative work" license, does it include vectorizing the image?23:48
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