Wednesday, 2010-04-14

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FlannelHi guys, I've got a couple of questions about CC0, is anyone around who could field them? (or direct me to a better location to ask)03:57
paulproteusFlannel: The main CC folks aren't around right now. They usually are during business hours US time.04:05
paulproteusI might possibly be able to help, though.04:05
FlannelThanks paulproteus.  Mind doing it in a query?04:10
paulproteusI'd rather keep in-channel, if possible.04:10
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FlannelAlright, that just means I have to pretend to know at least a little bit about what I'm talking about ;)04:19
FlannelI'm looking to license a printed work, and would love to license it under the deprecated CC-SA, because from what I understand, anything with BY would require attribution (and a growing list of attribution as it gets modified) to remain on the finished product04:21
FlannelSo, all the CC-* stuff is out, CC-SA is deprecated, so I've moved on to WTFPL or CC0.  I don't care about people using my work commercially, and really "do whatever" is fine by me (I intend to recommend they give back and stuff, entirely non-bindingly)04:22
FlannelThe difference between CC0 and some other license is that I'm 'giving up' my rights, and I'm curious as to what exactly that entails.  I'm a bit hazy on it all, and don't like the idea of doing something I don't fully understand.04:24
FlannelI suppose I didn't really ask a question there, did I?  Uh, so, like if I licenced it [some other way] and then later on wanted to relicense it some other way (perhaps to a company for their own use or whatnot), it's my understanding that I wouldn't be able to do that with CC0, because I don't own the rights anymore.  Is that accurate?04:26
FlannelAnd is this point moot because [anyone] could use the CC0 for whatever they wanted (the company could use it already)?04:26
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akila872Hello nkinkade12:49
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greg-gFlannel: hey, sorry I didn't answer your PM from ages ago, it completely feel off my radar.13:32
greg-gSo, if you release your work under a CC0 waiver (it is a waiver not a license) then anyone can do anything with it. So, if you later want some company to be able to do something with it and they ask you for a license, your response would (and should be): "there are no copyright restrictions on this work, you are free to do with it what you like"13:33
greg-gFlannel: ^^13:34
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ea4xgrnathany: hello, thanks for the reply16:03
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ea4xgrnathany: when it comes to CURIE discussion,  I have realized that 1) although there is a mechanism for resolving the base URI (independent of pyRDFa) in libvalidator, it is not used at all16:04
ea4xgrI did not realized that before, thus I came up with resolving CURIE in the base URI16:04
ea4xgraside of the RDFa method, do you think that resolving CURIEs would make sense?16:05
ea4xgrI know that the comment method is deprecated, however, are methods like data: URI deprecated?16:05
nathanyea4xgr, yes, data: URIs and RDF/XML in-a-comment should both show a warning16:06
ea4xgrso are we simply considering anything but RDFa a deprecated method?16:06
nathanyfor [X]HTML, yes16:07
ea4xgrso do you think that resolving CURIEs outside RDFa for [X]HTML should take place?16:08
nathanyi'm not 100% certain about this, but I think the places they're valid is very well defined16:08
ea4xgrwould it be valid or is considered to be valid in future, to have CURIE in a standalone RDF (not RDFa) which could then be say <link rel> in [X]HTML head?16:09
nathanyif we handle them when we process the RDFa, I think we get all the places we need to handle them covered16:09
ea4xgrI'm referring to W3C now, not the license point of view16:09
nathanyi think so, but i'm not 100% certain16:10
ea4xgrit boils down to the question of whether CURIEs are to be within/or applied to XML spec16:11
ea4xgror in/to some XML application in particular ([X]HTML)16:11
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ea4xgrit does not seem like it would be incorporated into an XML spec16:15
ea4xgrit's a candidate recommendation already16:15
nathanythanks for the reference16:15
ea4xgrso CURIE in RDF is and presumably is going to remain invalid16:16
ea4xgralthough probably not in terms of the syntax itself16:17
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ea4xgrfrom the semantic point of view, because the syntax holds16:18
ea4xgrI've just validated (via, XHTML 1.0 Strict with href="foo:bar" and href="[foo:bar]" and it reported no errors16:19
akila872hello nathany16:19
ea4xgrnathany: suppose new updates for the validator will appear; who is able to upload them to the ? you and the other Nathan?16:21
nathanyhi akila87216:22
nathanyea4xgr, myself, nkinkade, paroneayea, or jed3 can all help with that; if we need to grant access to others, we cann16:22
akila872nathany: i sent you the code.16:22
ea4xgrok, thank you :)16:23
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nathanyakila872, yes, i received it; haven't had a chance to look closely, but thanks for sending that along16:26
akila872nathany: is there any client application for ccHost something like flikrj16:27
nathanyakila872, not that i'm aware of16:30
akila872nathany, ah ok, then i think i have to write the open clip art code from the scratch. i manged to get the data from the site, but images aren't displaying in the window.16:36
nathanyakila872, i don't know if they have an API or not, but i can connect you to the person developing that these days if you wanted to find out more about a possible "generic" wrapper for it16:38
akila872nathany, im glad if you can. however i manged to get the data using a simple code. just thought it would be better to have wrapper.16:42
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akozaknkinkade, would you have a few minutes today to help me get Maps working on the CC wiki? My guess is that it's just an API key problem.16:50
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akozakor sometime in the future?16:51
nkinkadeakozak: Yeah.16:52
nkinkadeWhat's the problem?16:52
akozakThe #geocode parser isn't working:
akozakAnd I haven't been able to embed a map anywhere.16:54
akozakI should be able to do with Maps and not Semantic Maps, since we have ArrayFunctions16:55
akozakerr sorry ArrayExtension16:55
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akozaknathany, quick discovered question. I'm talking with someone whose feed isn't included in search results, and so I tested a crawl with just the one feed (, and I get this error: [exec] Error parsing: failed(2,200): org.apache.nutch.parse.ParseException: parser not found for contentType=application/xml url=
akozakdoes that mean its reporting itself as xml17:47
akozakwhich is a problem for ded17:47
akozakwhen its supposed to be atom?17:47
nathanyakozak, yeah, sounds like a bug in the DEd feed content-type recognition17:48
nathanyCan you file it as a bug on
nathanyakozak, I'd have to dig in a see what the underlying parser library is expecting to offer them meaningful advice17:49
akozaknathany, yes I'll do that. but would it be fixed if they were to add the correct content-type?17:49
akozakto the feed17:49
nathanyon the upside, asheesh and raffi are going to be in SF the last week of April to get spun up on things17:49
nathanyakozak, yes; i'm not sure what the proper content-type is, looking17:50
nathanyakozak, wikipedia says application/atom+xml17:51
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akozaknathany, is it accurate to say that it appears Nutch is mis-identifying the content type in the absence of a correct/explicit declaration in the feed?17:57
nathanyakozak, probably not; let me see what their server is reporting17:57
nathanyakozak, their server is reporting that it's application/xml17:58
akozaknathany, ah, ok, i don't actually know how content-type gets reported in teh first place...17:58
nathanyakozak, it's usually sent along with the response17:58
akozaknathany, then could it be that the nutch xml parser just isn't enabled right now?17:58
nathanywe're using the Rome parsing library, which is a Java library for handling all sorts of feeds17:58
nathanyit obviously registers handlers based on content-type17:59
nathanyakozak, no17:59
akozakah ok17:59
nathanyakozak, this is probably a bug in that we should make a best effort to parse things that aren't 100% compliant17:59
nathanybut it's also a misconfiguration -- application/xml is not the content type for Atom feeds18:00
akozakah ok. so should I send a note back to them about that and then also file a bug report?18:00
paroneayeaweird.  I can't run buildout on cc.engine from the library. is inaccessible from here.18:31
paroneayeaI wonder why a9 would be blocked or otherwise unavailable?  a7 works18:31
paroneayeaI can ssh into a9 from here though.18:32
paroneayeamust be firewalled on port 80.18:32
paroneayeacrazy library firewalls.18:32
paroneayeaoh nope.  Okay it opens now.18:33
paroneayeaand now there's no problem.18:34
* paroneayea trying to debug this library, ho ho ho18:40
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paroneayeayikes.  That's a frustrating looking discussion.18:45
mralexthat's not really a yay worthy thread18:47
akozakim all for usability18:55
akozaktim berners-lee has flat out said http:// is one of his biggest regrets18:55
akozakhahah i love the last comment18:59
paroneayeahe said the // is one of his biggest regrests18:59
paroneayeanot the http:18:59
paroneayeabecause the // does nothing18:59
akozakI must be mis-remembering18:59
paroneayeahttp: is useful because you can have other uris like file:18:59
paroneayeaor ftp:18:59
akozakUseful for a very small number of people, I'm guessing19:00
paroneayeathere are other uris19:01
paroneayealike xmpp://cwebber@dustycloud.org19:01
paroneayeasome browsers will know that means a link to my xmpp address19:01
akozakright but none that are directly parsed by the browser, right? they're mainly shortcuts19:02
paroneayeasome browsers have ftp support19:02
akozakI'm not arguing for removing protocols from URIs, just from the browser display19:02
paroneayeawell, actually, probably all19:02
akozaki don't know, maybe its stupid19:03
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ea4xgrparoneayea: oh, yeah19:33
ea4xgrparoneayea: for instance, file:/// to access the root directory in Mozilla Firefox19:33
ea4xgrparoneayea: ViolaWWW accepted file:/ only19:34
ea4xgrand another thing is to split the adjective "worldwide" into two separate words (originally it was "WorldWideWeb")19:36
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paroneayeanathany: nkinkade: are we doing a phone call this week?20:17
nathanyparoneayea, yes20:25
nathanyin 5 min20:25
nathanyparoneayea, nkinkade: let's use line #2 on the FCC list20:26
nathanyparoneayea, nkinkade, are either of you already dialed in? the message it gave me was weird -- "one other caller" then hold music20:33
paroneayeaI was on then got booted20:34
paroneayea1 sec20:34
nathanyah, that's probably what it was20:34
paroneayeaby booted I mean connection error20:34
nathanyright :)20:34
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nkinkadenathany: paroneayea:  Sorry.  I went to run an errand for lunch, but it took nearly twice as long as I had expected.  I just got back.20:45
nathanywe're chatting now20:45
nkinkadeShall I call in?20:45
nkinkadenathany: ^^20:46
nathanynkinkade, please20:46
paroneayeaconnection error :<20:49
paroneayeacoming back on hold on20:49
nathanyparoneayea, np20:49
nathanynkinkade, i just edited but now i'm not sure if that's the "future documentation" or current21:03
nathanydo you remember?21:03
nkinkadenathany: That's the current one.21:03
nathanydo you remember where the new one is?21:04
nkinkadeI wasn't aware that we had a new one?21:04
nkinkadeOh wait.21:04
nathanyi thought we had a "this is how we want it to work in the futre"21:04
nathanyprogramming by wishful thinking21:04
nkinkadeYeah, I remember you drew up something.  Right.21:04
nathanynkinkade, found it ^^21:05
paroneayeaI think things have *slightly* diverged from that too21:06
paroneayeaI need to document it21:06
paroneayeathere was one change I think21:06
nathanyparoneayea, that'd be most excellent21:06
paroneayeainstead of ./bin/license --add it's ./bin/license add21:06
paroneayeauses subcommands instead of options21:06
nathanyparoneayea, can you:21:10
nathany* add a DEPRECATED file to the license.rdf svn repo in trunk21:10
nathany(with text inside to point to the git repo)21:10
nathany* add a task to your pre-production list to remove the svn:external pointing to the old license.rdf repo21:10
paroneayeayes I can do these things21:11
nathanythank you21:11
nkinkadegreg-g: You there?21:12
greg-gnkinkade: for a bit yeah21:14
nkinkadegreg-g: Do you by chance know if we have any resources compiled about court cases involving CC licenses?21:14
nkinkadeI seem to recall something like that but can't find it.  It may not exist.21:14
greg-gI don't think there is a canonical listing of cases involving CC licenses, unfortunately. Seems like something we should have though21:15
nkinkadeMaybe.  Thanks.21:15
nathanynkinkade, there was the start of a case law project in the wiki21:15
nkinkadenathany: URL?21:15
nathanynot sure it's gone anywhere -- aurelia was working on it before she left for the bar21:15
nathany -- but it's not a useful resource right at the moment21:16
nathany(as you can see)21:16
nkinkadeYeah, not much.21:16
nkinkadeIt may not even categorize as a "resource"?21:16
greg-ghah, nice21:17
nathanynot sure if you're looking for something in particular -- aurelia did collect a bunch of data to put into it21:17
greg-gnathany: do you know if that data is somewhere accessible?21:17
nathanygreg-g, not at the moment; we're going to build out the Case Law page so it can live there21:18
greg-gnathany: I mean, since the number of cases is fairly low, I could churn through it and get them up there21:18
greg-gforget I offered then ;)21:18
nathanygreg-g, i think the blocker isn't churn, it's getting the SMW stuff set up21:18
greg-g:( suck21:18
nathanys/churn/churning through them/21:18
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akozakgreg-g, we have a memo21:25
akozakor research report21:26
akozakemail aurelia @ cc about ot21:26
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mralexakozak: weird, if no Mainurl is set, the wiki code comes out:
mralexmaybe hte main url for that one should be the salons page, though.21:59
akozakmralex, not sure what you mean above22:00
akozakthe Mainurl field is mandatory in the form22:00
akozakwhich maybe it shouldn't be22:00
mralex"[{{{Mainurl}}} Go to event URL]"22:00
akozakbut do you mean when you remove the Mainurl from the template call?22:00
mralexi jjust mean if no mainurl is set, that appears22:01
mralexthere's no mainurl for that page22:01
akozaki think i know why22:01
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akozakugh I accidentally the whole thing22:09
akozakah there we go22:11
akozakmralex, thanks for the bug report :)22:27
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greg-gakozak: cool thanks, will do22:53
akozakugh, why now cc wiki!23:01
akozakalways picks the worst time to not respond23:02
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akozakthis wiki is driving me crazy23:36
akozakOMG IT WORKS23:36
akozakconditional win23:36
akozakquite possibly the ugliest wiki page ever
mralexwhat was not working before?23:38
mralexargh, fuckin being slow.23:39
akozakI used a bunch of array and string parsers to compare the date strings23:39
akozakand format the date without duplicating month or year information23:39
akozakyea mralex that was killing me23:40
akozakso frustrating to develop something like that live on a wiki23:40
mralexwhy again can't we have that stuff on the server?23:40
akozakthere's an issue about it that's super old23:40
mralexi recall23:41
akozaklooks like it's a wont-fix :)23:51
mralexbecause we're trying to move away from it23:54
mralexshould probably update the theme to load YUI from google code, though23:54
mralexyahooapis isn't the best it can be23:54
paulproteusAww, sad.23:54
akozakI wish MediaWiki had code highlighting.23:56
akozakor a coding environment of some kind23:56
akozakor handle whitespace better23:57
akozakuh oh23:58
akozakoh nvm23:59

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