| ea4xgr | nkinkade: it's probably a trivial mistake on my part | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| nkinkade | ea4xgr: Try to ssh normally to a8.creativecommons.org on port 2222 | 00:02 |
| ea4xgr | nkinkade: with what username? (I'm doing ssh -D 2222 a8.creativecommons.org - it asks for a password) | 00:04 |
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| nkinkade | ea4xgr: git@code.creativecommons.org -p 2222 | 00:05 |
| nkinkade | ea4xgr: Sorry! Make that a7.creativecommons.org | 00:06 |
| ea4xgr | $ ssh -p 2222 git@a7.creativecommons.org - asks for a password | 00:07 |
| nkinkade | Let me check the debug output. | 00:08 |
| ea4xgr | I used "-D" earlier - it couldn't work; *sighs* ye old proxy times | 00:09 |
| nkinkade | ea4xgr: Ugh. Sorry. I just found another small error in the way I added your key. Try again. | 00:15 |
| ea4xgr | nkinkade: ssh -p 2222 git@a7.creativecommons.org - connection refused w/o asking for a password | 00:16 |
| ea4xgr | as for git: $ git push origin master | 00:16 |
| ea4xgr | ERROR:gitosis.serve.main:Repository read access denied | 00:16 |
| ea4xgr | fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly | 00:16 |
| nkinkade | ea4xgr: Try ssh git@code.creativecommons.org -p 2222 again | 00:25 |
| nkinkade | Sorry. | 00:25 |
| ea4xgr | nkinkade: could I post you the log (half a page) on XMPP? | 00:27 |
| ea4xgr | anyway, a retry resulted in "connection refused" | 00:27 |
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| nkinkade | ea4xgr: I see that you're connecting and sshd is accepting your key, but I can't see just yet why the sessions are failing. Can we look at this tomorrow? | 00:38 |
| ea4xgr | nkinkade: yes, of course | 00:39 |
| ea4xgr | let me just mention that I can connect w/o problems to another (non-cc) host | 00:39 |
| nkinkade | Thanks. It's around 8:45PM and I'm trying to juggle cooking/eating dinner, a few other small things and getting this to work for you. :-) | 00:39 |
| ea4xgr | I appreciate that | 00:39 |
| ea4xgr | no rush | 00:40 |
| nkinkade | ea4xgr: Just catch me anytime tomorrow and we'll get this working. | 00:40 |
| nkinkade | Cool. | 00:40 |
| ea4xgr | is it possible to distribute a MIT work with a GNU GPL 2 software as one of its files? | 00:48 |
| greg-g | yes, http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#GPLCompatibleLicenses | 00:54 |
| ea4xgr | http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#IfLibraryIsGPL | 00:54 |
| ea4xgr | greg-g: thank you | 00:54 |
| ea4xgr | JED3: this is what I had on mind on our priv | 00:54 |
| ea4xgr | greg-g: I think I've not been precise enough on this one | 00:56 |
| ea4xgr | greg-g: say I'm writing a package A that incorporates (bundles) a file licensed under GNU GPL 2+ that I do not posses a copyright to; can A be licensed under a MIT license? | 00:57 |
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| ea4xgr | I have to go now; see you tomorrow | 01:06 |
| v0id_ | aw | 01:06 |
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| rand | oh org and net are the same for freenode, huh? | 01:10 |
| v0id_ | they are? | 01:10 |
| v0id_ | net didnt work on me | 01:10 |
| rand | I connected to the net one | 01:10 |
| v0id_ | oh | 01:11 |
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| randweb | hello rand | 01:22 |
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| paroneayea | JED3: ping | 15:17 |
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| M6FNG | Hello all! I have a licencing question. If a noncommercial-nonderiv licenced piece of music is used in the soundtrack of a film, and that film went on to win a cash award after being entered in a competition, does that break the licence? | 18:05 |
| greg-g | M6FNG: the noderiv part prohibits its use in a film in the first place | 18:11 |
| greg-g | from the legal code: "For the avoidance of doubt, where the Work is a musical work, performance or phonogram, the synchronization of the Work in timed-relation with a moving image ("synching") will be considered an Adaptation for the purpose of this License." | 18:12 |
| M6FNG | Many thanks greg-g, I hadn't spotted that. Thanks for your time and helping me avoid the courtroom :) | 18:13 |
| greg-g | M6FNG: you're welcome :) | 18:14 |
| M6FNG | What if it was attrition-noncommercial-sharealike? | 18:14 |
| greg-g | then you film would also need to be CC:BY-NC-SA | 18:14 |
| greg-g | because that would be considered a derivative | 18:14 |
| greg-g | I would look for CC:BY, CC0, or Public Domain works if you can | 18:15 |
| M6FNG | Great, thanks Greg-g, I'll do that. thanks for your time | 18:16 |
| greg-g | np | 18:16 |
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| paroneayea | JED3: ping | 19:34 |
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| ea4xgr | hi | 20:14 |
| ea4xgr | greg-g: hi! any comments on that yesterday question of mine (distributing a GPL code within the source code of a MIT-licensed software/package)? | 20:16 |
| greg-g | ohhh, GPL inside MIT.... | 20:16 |
| ea4xgr | nkinkade: hi! "ssh -p 2222 git@a7.creativecommons.org" still yields "connection refused". could you please have a look at this in a spare moment? | 20:16 |
| ea4xgr | greg-g: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#IfLibraryIsGPL | 20:17 |
| nkinkade | ea4xgr: We'll resolve it today ... give me a few minutes. | 20:19 |
| ea4xgr | nkinkade: great news. no rush | 20:19 |
| greg-g | is the MIT code your code, ea4xgr ? | 20:19 |
| ea4xgr | greg-g: no, we're discussing a code authored by CC, supposedly licensed under MIT, but bundling a GPL 2+ library | 20:20 |
| ea4xgr | greg-g: I'm just trying to figure out, should I notify the authors (cc members) about this problem or isn't it a problem at all | 20:20 |
| greg-g | ahh, well, if the work was a work for hire, the copyright is held by CC, and CC can dual license their code under MIT/GPL and then it won't be an issue | 20:21 |
| greg-g | did that make sense? | 20:21 |
| greg-g | nkinkade: did that make sense? :) | 20:21 |
| greg-g | (just getting confirmation from someone else at CC) | 20:21 |
| ea4xgr | greg-g: I do not understand how a dual-license code could resolve the issue with the MIT+GPL bundling combo | 20:21 |
| nkinkade | greg-g: I don't know about that code. | 20:22 |
| greg-g | so, if the code is dual MIT/GPL, and it incorporates GPL code, then everything is A-OK. | 20:22 |
| greg-g | if the original code is dual.... | 20:22 |
| greg-g | (is what I shoudl have said to make that clearer) | 20:22 |
| ea4xgr | nkinkade: we're just discussing, this does not have to relate to any code base | 20:22 |
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| ea4xgr | greg-g: if the bundled GPL library is also MIT, then it's not a problem, 'cause we can use a MIT license throughout the package | 20:23 |
| greg-g | so yeah, if the original authors agree to dual license that original code as MIT/GPL, then you can incorporate both MIT and GPL code into the project | 20:23 |
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| ea4xgr | greg-g: the quesiton is - what if the bundled GPL has GPL has its only license - can we use a MIT for the whole package under any circumstances? | 20:23 |
| greg-g | not solely MIT, no | 20:24 |
| ea4xgr | has GPL has = has GPL as | 20:24 |
| greg-g | MIT/GPL dual licensed | 20:24 |
| ea4xgr | greg-g: ok, thank you | 20:24 |
| ea4xgr | :) | 20:24 |
| greg-g | but that code that is GPL only that is incorporated should have a very explicit license header that this file is only GPL | 20:24 |
| ea4xgr | s/a MIT/an MIT/ | 20:24 |
| ea4xgr | yes | 20:24 |
| greg-g | cool | 20:24 |
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| * greg-g has now fullfiled his Fellow duties for the day ;) | 20:25 | |
| * paroneayea hands greg-g a tasty apple | 20:27 | |
| ea4xgr | JED3: ping | 20:33 |
| JED3 | ea4xgr: ack | 20:35 |
| ea4xgr | JED3: could we continue the discussion we had yesterday (on priv)? | 20:35 |
| JED3 | ea4xgr: sure thing | 20:36 |
| greg-g | paroneayea: mmmm, thank you | 20:36 |
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| ea4xgr | greg-g: still there? I've got one more legal problem :) | 20:55 |
| greg-g | ea4xgr: yep | 20:55 |
| greg-g | but always remember, IANAL and TISNLA | 20:55 |
| ea4xgr | :D | 20:55 |
| greg-g | :) | 20:56 |
| greg-g | (take the "S" out of there, This Is Not Legal Advice) :) | 20:56 |
| ea4xgr | suppose you write a GPL software (a Web application) and you use a GPL library bundled there that you do not own a copyright to | 20:56 |
| greg-g | k | 20:56 |
| ea4xgr | this library is one big file, say 100k, and it has a full GNU GPL 3+ boilerplate, stating who holds the copyright and that the code is available under GNU GPL 3+ | 20:57 |
| ea4xgr | the question: is it legal to minify the code, stripping all the comments INCLUDING the boilerplate, and distribute this code? | 20:58 |
| JED3 | ea4xgr: the copyright notice and the license name and version would suffice i believe | 20:59 |
| JED3 | and distributed the uncompressed version alongside | 20:59 |
| greg-g | maybe, I'd ask in #sflc on that one | 20:59 |
| greg-g | or #fsf | 21:00 |
| ea4xgr | a Web application should be AGPL 3+ since it's compatible with GPL 3+, my bad | 21:00 |
| greg-g | because in the GPLv3: you can redistribute only if you "keep intact all notices stating that this License and any non-permissive terms added in accord with section 7 apply to the code" | 21:00 |
| JED3 | but i am basing this off my suspicion that compressed js could be considered in the same vein as compiled code | 21:00 |
| greg-g | "keep intact" seems like "not removing" | 21:00 |
| JED3 | IANAL FWIW | 21:00 |
| paroneayea | minifying seems very similar to compiling to me | 21:03 |
| mralex | just minify then paste the boilerplate back into the top | 21:05 |
| ea4xgr | ok, I think that minifying results in what GNU GPL 3+ means by the "object code" | 21:05 |
| mralex | and make the uncompressed version available alongside from the same location | 21:05 |
| ea4xgr | and then "If the place to copy the object code is a network server, the Corresponding Source may be on a different server (operated by you or a third party) that supports equivalent copying facilities, provided you maintain clear directions next to the object code saying where to find the Corresponding Source." | 21:06 |
| ea4xgr | so imho it would be okay to strip the boilerplate w/ minifying if you state next to the object code (in the Web app?) where to find the full source | 21:06 |
| mralex | at the very least, include a comment at the top of the min version with a link to the source/original site | 21:07 |
| ea4xgr | the thing you would not be able to do is just to minify w/o the original source code (tivoization) or minify, distribute, and not state that it's GNU GPL 3+ that you're using and how to obtain the source (NOT necessarily in the object code, just on the Web site) | 21:07 |
| mralex | it's not like the min version isn't plain text nor is including any license information really going to add to the size by any appreciable amount. | 21:08 |
| ea4xgr | The “source code” for a work means the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it. “Object code” means any non-source form of a work. | 21:08 |
| mralex | minified JS is source code, it's a long stretch to call it object code. | 21:08 |
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| paroneayea | mralex: minified code is obfuscated to the point where it's not human-readable | 21:09 |
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| paroneayea | I guess maybe I'm also not sure of what the legal interpretation of this would be | 21:09 |
| ea4xgr | mralex: minified = preferred form of the work for making modifications to it? | 21:10 |
| paroneayea | but I think this matches what I would consider object code | 21:10 |
| mralex | all i'm saying is, there's no point in not including license documentation in the minified JS | 21:10 |
| ea4xgr | mralex: I concur | 21:10 |
| ea4xgr | http://code.jquery.com/jquery-1.4.2.js | 21:10 |
| mralex | exactly the example i was going to use ;) | 21:11 |
| ea4xgr | vs. http://code.jquery.com/jquery-1.4.2.min.js | 21:11 |
| ea4xgr | :) | 21:11 |
| paroneayea | mralex: yeah, including the license documentation probably doesn't *hurt* things | 21:11 |
| paroneayea | but I'd worry if it became okay to distribute a minified version of GPL source code | 21:11 |
| paroneayea | rather than the original full sourcecode | 21:12 |
| paroneayea | that would be akin to permitting distributing c binaries | 21:12 |
| paroneayea | hence why I think minified JS should be considered closer to c binary output rather than source code | 21:12 |
| mralex | the PACK minification method, on the other hand, is far more obfuscated than minify. since it's more self-executing JS. | 21:12 |
| ea4xgr | w/o original source code it's tivoization | 21:13 |
| ea4xgr | which was the main difference between GNU GPL 2 and GNU GPL 3+ as far as I recall | 21:13 |
| paroneayea | well, it's not tivotization as tivotization involves encumbering with GPL | 21:13 |
| ea4xgr | (GNU GPL 2 permitted tis) | 21:13 |
| paroneayea | but it would be exploiting a loophole | 21:14 |
| paroneayea | er | 21:14 |
| paroneayea | encumbering it with DRM | 21:14 |
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| paroneayea | damn 3 letter acronymns everywhere | 21:14 |
| ea4xgr | oh, yes, you're absolutetely right, paroneayea, I've forgotten what tivoization really is | 21:14 |
| ea4xgr | sorry! | 21:14 |
| paroneayea | no need to apologize | 21:15 |
| ea4xgr | :) | 21:15 |
| * greg-g catches back up a bit.... only slightly | 21:19 | |
| greg-g | oh, minifying is a specific thing? not just "I'm gonna take some stuff out by hand"? | 21:19 |
| mralex | yeah, it's a method of compressing JS by removing white space, comments, line breaks, and shortening method and variable names | 21:20 |
| paroneayea | greg-g: it programmatically takes javascript and compresses it to a point where it's super fast to run but (nearly) unreadable to program | 21:20 |
| greg-g | right right, I knew _of_ that process, didn't realize it was called "minifying" | 21:20 |
| akozak | greg-g, did you all see: http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/copyrightforlibrarians/Main_Page | 21:20 |
| ea4xgr | just to clarify: "fast" as in terms of downloading the library, not as in terms of the running time | 21:23 |
| paroneayea | ea4xgr: some minifiers also greatly improve computation time iirc | 21:25 |
| paroneayea | or, if not greatly, somewhat :) | 21:25 |
| * paroneayea has no evidence of his statement atm | 21:25 | |
| ea4xgr | paroneayea: interesting | 21:26 |
| ea4xgr | greg-g: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minification_%28programming%29 | 21:27 |
| nkinkade | ea4xgr: Sorry about the delay. | 21:27 |
| ea4xgr | nkinkade: no problem | 21:27 |
| nkinkade | Let's take a quick look at your git issues. | 21:27 |
| JED3 | paroneayea: depends on the js engine and how it tokenizes scripts (hence why removing spurious characters could improve exec time) | 21:27 |
| ea4xgr | ok, what command should I issue? | 21:27 |
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| ea4xgr | paroneayea: http://code.google.com/closure/compiler/docs/compilation_levels.html is the evidence | 21:29 |
| ea4xgr | "The ADVANCED_OPTIMIZATIONS transformations include: " | 21:29 |
| nkinkade | ea4xgr: Try it one more time. I screwed up all over the place yesterday. I found another typo. :-/ | 21:30 |
| ea4xgr | don't worry; stuff like that happens all the times | 21:30 |
| nkinkade | I should know. ;-) | 21:30 |
| ea4xgr | ssh a7/a8 yields connection refused | 21:30 |
| greg-g | paroneayea: saw it mentioned on the microblogs a bit today, haven't read it/looked at it yet | 21:30 |
| nkinkade | ea4xgr: Try git. | 21:31 |
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| ea4xgr | nkinkade: may I priv? | 21:31 |
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| nkinkade | ea4xgr: Sure, but is it really necessary? | 21:32 |
| nkinkade | Unless you are giving me passwords, then it's probably nothing that can't be in this channel. | 21:32 |
| ea4xgr | no, I just did not want to bother the ppl w/ my error messages | 21:32 |
| ea4xgr | right | 21:32 |
| nkinkade | ea4xgr: http://pastebin.com | 21:32 |
| nkinkade | (or whichever you prefer) | 21:32 |
| paroneayea | ea4xgr: yeah, if you're pastebin'ing it, we can handle a bit of noise :) | 21:33 |
| nkinkade | It's better to have all this logged, anyway, but definitely use pastebin rather than pasting into the channel. | 21:33 |
| ea4xgr | nkinkade: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=mqStWDBN | 21:34 |
| paroneayea | unless you misread the topic of #cc, then nkinkade might have to clean the logs :) | 21:34 |
| paroneayea | we haven't had any noisy credit card spammers in a while though it seems | 21:35 |
| mralex | shouldn't it be ":monaco.git" not ":monaco"? | 21:36 |
| ea4xgr | you are right - these problems may happen in the future to someone and he/she could use the logs | 21:36 |
| mralex | ;) | 21:36 |
| ea4xgr | mralex: bottom monospace at http://code.creativecommons.org/ | 21:37 |
| nkinkade | ea4xgr: I just turned on verbose debugging. If you try a push again you should get a lot more info on the terminal. | 21:37 |
| ea4xgr | nkinkade: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=d7Lijafr | 21:38 |
| ea4xgr | myUsername@myDomainWithoutDotOrg - like my e-mail address, but w/o the ".org" part | 21:39 |
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| ea4xgr | :) | 22:08 |
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| akozak | hmm, anyone have any thoughs re: i7 vs. pheonom II x4? | 22:11 |
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| ea4xgr | nkinkade: I've been disconnected a few times; I might have lost some messages | 22:13 |
| nkinkade | ea4xgr: I keep getting sidetracked. I think I've just overlooked something stupidly simple. Let me review what I've done one more time. Setting up access is usually really really easy and goes without a problem. | 22:19 |
| ea4xgr | nkinkade: chances are I did something wrong with .git, though I can't really figure out anything suspicious | 22:19 |
| nkinkade | ea4xgr: Maybe, but I'm feeling like it may be on my side. | 22:20 |
| nkinkade | I'm looking now. | 22:20 |
| ea4xgr | from the log, it seems I'm readonly on monaco, so I couldn't push | 22:20 |
| ea4xgr | ok... I'll just w8 | 22:20 |
| nkinkade | ea4xgr: Can you do anything with validator and libvalidator | 22:25 |
| nkinkade | I have them set up differently, so I'm curious if either of those work. | 22:26 |
| ea4xgr | nkinkade: I was able to download both using "git clone git://code.creativecommons.org/*validator.git" | 22:28 |
| nkinkade | ea4xgr: Right, anyone should be able to, but can you with git@code.... | 22:29 |
| ea4xgr | nkinkade: my bad; yes, I can | 22:31 |
| nkinkade | ea4xgr: Okay, so somehow I'm doing something wrong with the others. I'll focus on the diff between the two. | 22:31 |
| nkinkade | ea4xgr: I think the problem may be on your side. I just tested this and was able to push to monaco.git. | 22:37 |
| nkinkade | Since you are able to get r/w access to validator, then it seems your key must be good. | 22:37 |
| nkinkade | Can you send me .git/config for monaco on your machine. | 22:38 |
| nkinkade | ? | 22:38 |
| ea4xgr | yes | 22:39 |
| nkinkade | ea4xgr: pastebin.com is fine. | 22:39 |
| ea4xgr | nkinkade: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=m1gTmdkp | 22:42 |
| ea4xgr | I didn't have this [rejected] message earlier | 22:42 |
| nkinkade | ea4xgr: It seems to be working for you. | 22:42 |
| ea4xgr | instead I had http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=d7Lijafr | 22:42 |
| nkinkade | Try doing a pull first. | 22:42 |
| ea4xgr | ok :) | 22:42 |
| nkinkade | I push a file called 'lol' which you can remove. | 22:42 |
| nkinkade | If you didn't change anything in your config and it's now working, then the problem must have been that I had used an illegal repo description. | 22:45 |
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| nkinkade | I had a URL in the desc., and decided to change it for just non-special characters wondering if chars like : and / might be messing it up. | 22:46 |
| sparr | is there a place on the creativecommons.org website to find a link to all of the different license pages? | 22:46 |
| ea4xgr | nkinkade: I was able to push code and rm lol | 22:46 |
| nkinkade | sparr: All the current licenses, or every license that ever existed? | 22:46 |
| ea4xgr | nkinkade: would it be possible to add a description in viewgit (it says [no description]) myself? | 22:47 |
| sparr | at least the one, preferably the other :) | 22:47 |
| nkinkade | ea4xgr: I guess it was that the "description" field in gitosis.conf for a [repo] section cannot contain one or both of : and / | 22:47 |
| nkinkade | Who knew? Not me, but I do now. :-) | 22:47 |
| nkinkade | sparr: No such list exists because technically there are hundreds of licenses, when you include jurisdiction-specific ones. | 22:48 |
| nkinkade | sparr: But we do have them all in RDF format. | 22:48 |
| nkinkade | http://creativecommons.org/licenses/index.rdf | 22:48 |
| nkinkade | It's somewhat large file. | 22:48 |
| sparr | I was hoping for something like http://creativecommons.org/about/licenses but that also included things like CC0 | 22:49 |
| ea4xgr | nkinkade: so the other two new repos should be working, I guess | 22:49 |
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| nkinkade | sparr: There are just too many to be included in a single page. | 22:50 |
| nkinkade | Are you talking about licenses, or just license types like BY-SA? | 22:51 |
| sparr | i'm not sure | 22:51 |
| ea4xgr | nkinkade: thank you for help | 22:54 |
| nkinkade | ea4xgr: No problem, sorry it took so long for me to solve. | 22:54 |
| nkinkade | I just suspect that some a couple chars in a description field would cause it break. | 22:55 |
| nkinkade | -some | 22:55 |
| ea4xgr | nkinkade: as for the descriptions for viewgit, as far as I understand, I would need to send them to you and you could add them, because you have admin rights which are required for this operation? | 22:56 |
| nkinkade | ea4xgr: Right. | 22:56 |
| ea4xgr | ok | 22:56 |
| ea4xgr | bye | 23:14 |
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