Wednesday, 2010-03-24

ea4xgrnkinkade: it's probably a trivial mistake on my part00:00
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nkinkadeea4xgr: Try to ssh normally to on port 222200:02
ea4xgrnkinkade: with what username? (I'm doing ssh -D 2222 - it asks for a password)00:04
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nkinkadeea4xgr: -p 222200:05
nkinkadeea4xgr: Sorry!  Make that a7.creativecommons.org00:06
ea4xgr$ ssh -p 2222 - asks for a password00:07
nkinkadeLet me check the debug output.00:08
ea4xgrI used "-D" earlier - it couldn't work; *sighs* ye old proxy times00:09
nkinkadeea4xgr: Ugh.  Sorry.  I just found another small error in the way I added your key.  Try again.00:15
ea4xgrnkinkade: ssh -p 2222 - connection refused w/o asking for a password00:16
ea4xgras for git: $ git push origin master00:16
ea4xgrERROR:gitosis.serve.main:Repository read access denied00:16
ea4xgrfatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly00:16
nkinkadeea4xgr: Try ssh -p 2222 again00:25
ea4xgrnkinkade: could I post you the log (half a page) on XMPP?00:27
ea4xgranyway, a retry resulted in "connection refused"00:27
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nkinkadeea4xgr: I see that you're connecting and sshd is accepting your key, but I can't see just yet why the sessions are failing.  Can we look at this tomorrow?00:38
ea4xgrnkinkade: yes, of course00:39
ea4xgrlet me just mention that I can connect w/o problems to another (non-cc) host00:39
nkinkadeThanks.  It's around 8:45PM and I'm trying to juggle cooking/eating dinner, a few other small things and getting this to work for you. :-)00:39
ea4xgrI appreciate that00:39
ea4xgrno rush00:40
nkinkadeea4xgr: Just catch me anytime tomorrow and we'll get this working.00:40
ea4xgris it possible to distribute a MIT work with a GNU GPL 2 software as one of its files?00:48
ea4xgrgreg-g: thank you00:54
ea4xgrJED3: this is what I had on mind on our priv00:54
ea4xgrgreg-g: I think I've not been precise enough on this one00:56
ea4xgrgreg-g: say I'm writing a package A that incorporates (bundles) a file licensed under GNU GPL 2+ that I do not posses a copyright to; can A be licensed under a MIT license?00:57
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ea4xgrI have to go now; see you tomorrow01:06
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randoh org and net are the same for freenode, huh?01:10
v0id_they are?01:10
v0id_net didnt work on me01:10
randI connected to the net one01:10
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randwebhello rand01:22
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paroneayeaJED3: ping15:17
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M6FNGHello all! I have a licencing question. If a noncommercial-nonderiv licenced piece of music is used in the soundtrack of a film, and that film went on to win a cash award after being entered in a competition, does that break the licence?18:05
greg-gM6FNG: the noderiv part prohibits its use in a film in the first place18:11
greg-gfrom the legal code: "For the avoidance of doubt, where the Work is a musical work, performance or phonogram, the synchronization of the Work in timed-relation with a moving image ("synching") will be considered an Adaptation for the purpose of this License."18:12
M6FNGMany thanks greg-g, I hadn't spotted that. Thanks for your time and helping me avoid the courtroom :)18:13
greg-gM6FNG: you're welcome :)18:14
M6FNGWhat if it was attrition-noncommercial-sharealike?18:14
greg-gthen you film would also need to be CC:BY-NC-SA18:14
greg-gbecause that would be considered a derivative18:14
greg-gI would look for CC:BY, CC0, or Public Domain works if you can18:15
M6FNGGreat, thanks Greg-g, I'll do that. thanks for your time18:16
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paroneayeaJED3: ping19:34
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ea4xgrgreg-g: hi! any comments on that yesterday question of mine (distributing a GPL code within the source code of a MIT-licensed software/package)?20:16
greg-gohhh, GPL inside MIT....20:16
ea4xgrnkinkade: hi! "ssh -p 2222" still yields "connection refused". could you please have a look at this in a spare moment?20:16
nkinkadeea4xgr: We'll resolve it today ... give me a few minutes.20:19
ea4xgrnkinkade: great news. no rush20:19
greg-gis the MIT code your code, ea4xgr ?20:19
ea4xgrgreg-g: no, we're discussing a code authored by CC, supposedly licensed under MIT, but bundling a GPL 2+ library20:20
ea4xgrgreg-g: I'm just trying to figure out, should I notify the authors (cc members) about this problem or isn't it a problem at all20:20
greg-gahh, well, if the work was a work for hire, the copyright is held by CC, and CC can dual license their code under MIT/GPL and then it won't be an issue20:21
greg-gdid that make sense?20:21
greg-gnkinkade: did that make sense? :)20:21
greg-g(just getting confirmation from someone else at CC)20:21
ea4xgrgreg-g: I do not understand how a dual-license code could resolve the issue with the MIT+GPL bundling combo20:21
nkinkadegreg-g: I don't know about that code.20:22
greg-gso, if the code is dual MIT/GPL, and it incorporates GPL code, then everything is A-OK.20:22
greg-gif the original code is dual....20:22
greg-g(is what I shoudl have said to make that clearer)20:22
ea4xgrnkinkade: we're just discussing, this does not have to relate to any code base20:22
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ea4xgrgreg-g: if the bundled GPL library is also MIT, then it's not a problem, 'cause we can use a MIT license throughout the package20:23
greg-gso yeah, if the original authors agree to dual license that original code as MIT/GPL, then you can incorporate both MIT and GPL code into the project20:23
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ea4xgrgreg-g: the quesiton is - what if the bundled GPL has GPL has its only license - can we use a MIT for the whole package under any circumstances?20:23
greg-gnot solely MIT, no20:24
ea4xgrhas GPL has = has GPL as20:24
greg-gMIT/GPL dual licensed20:24
ea4xgrgreg-g: ok, thank you20:24
greg-gbut that code that is GPL only that is incorporated should have a very explicit license header that this file is only GPL20:24
ea4xgrs/a MIT/an MIT/20:24
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* greg-g has now fullfiled his Fellow duties for the day ;)20:25
* paroneayea hands greg-g a tasty apple20:27
ea4xgrJED3: ping20:33
JED3ea4xgr: ack20:35
ea4xgrJED3: could we continue the discussion we had yesterday (on priv)?20:35
JED3ea4xgr: sure thing20:36
greg-gparoneayea: mmmm, thank you20:36
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ea4xgrgreg-g: still there? I've got one more legal problem :)20:55
greg-gea4xgr: yep20:55
greg-gbut always remember, IANAL and TISNLA20:55
greg-g(take the "S" out of there, This Is Not Legal Advice) :)20:56
ea4xgrsuppose you write a GPL software (a Web application) and you use a GPL library bundled there that you do not own a copyright to20:56
ea4xgrthis library is one big file, say 100k, and it has a full GNU GPL 3+ boilerplate, stating who holds the copyright and that the code is available under GNU GPL 3+20:57
ea4xgrthe question: is it legal to minify the code, stripping all the comments INCLUDING the boilerplate, and distribute this code?20:58
JED3ea4xgr: the copyright notice and the license name and version would suffice i believe20:59
JED3and distributed the uncompressed version alongside20:59
greg-gmaybe, I'd ask in #sflc on that one20:59
greg-gor #fsf21:00
ea4xgra Web application should be AGPL 3+ since it's compatible with GPL 3+, my bad21:00
greg-gbecause in the GPLv3: you can redistribute only if you "keep intact all notices stating that this License and any non-permissive terms added in accord with section 7 apply to the code"21:00
JED3but i am basing this off my suspicion that compressed js could be considered in the same vein as compiled code21:00
greg-g"keep intact" seems like "not removing"21:00
paroneayeaminifying seems very similar to compiling to me21:03
mralexjust minify then paste the boilerplate back into the top21:05
ea4xgrok, I think that minifying results in what GNU GPL 3+ means by the "object code"21:05
mralexand make the uncompressed version available alongside from the same location21:05
ea4xgrand then "If the place to copy the object code is a network server, the Corresponding Source may be on a different server (operated by you or a third party) that supports equivalent copying facilities, provided you maintain clear directions next to the object code saying where to find the Corresponding Source."21:06
ea4xgrso imho it would be okay to strip the boilerplate w/ minifying if you state next to the object code (in the Web app?) where to find the full source21:06
mralexat the very least, include a comment at the top of the min version with a link to the source/original site21:07
ea4xgrthe thing you would not be able to do is just to minify w/o the original source code (tivoization) or minify, distribute, and not state that it's GNU GPL 3+ that you're using and how to obtain the source (NOT necessarily in the object code, just on the Web site)21:07
mralexit's not like the min version isn't plain text nor is including any license information really going to add to the size by any appreciable amount.21:08
ea4xgrThe “source code” for a work means the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it.  “Object code” means any non-source form of a work.21:08
mralexminified JS is source code, it's a long stretch to call it object code.21:08
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paroneayeamralex: minified code is obfuscated to the point where it's not human-readable21:09
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paroneayeaI guess maybe I'm also not sure of what the legal interpretation of this would be21:09
ea4xgrmralex: minified = preferred form of the work for making modifications to it?21:10
paroneayeabut I think this matches what I would consider object code21:10
mralexall i'm saying is, there's no point in not including license documentation in the minified JS21:10
ea4xgrmralex: I concur21:10
mralexexactly the example i was going to use ;)21:11
paroneayeamralex: yeah, including the license documentation probably doesn't *hurt* things21:11
paroneayeabut I'd worry if it became okay to distribute a minified version of GPL source code21:11
paroneayearather than the original full sourcecode21:12
paroneayeathat would be akin to permitting distributing c binaries21:12
paroneayeahence why I think minified JS should be considered closer to c binary output rather than source code21:12
mralexthe PACK minification method, on the other hand, is far more obfuscated than minify. since it's more self-executing JS.21:12
ea4xgrw/o original source code it's tivoization21:13
ea4xgrwhich was the main difference between GNU GPL 2 and GNU GPL 3+ as far as I recall21:13
paroneayeawell, it's not tivotization as tivotization involves encumbering with GPL21:13
ea4xgr(GNU GPL 2 permitted tis)21:13
paroneayeabut it would be exploiting a loophole21:14
paroneayeaencumbering it with DRM21:14
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paroneayeadamn 3 letter acronymns everywhere21:14
ea4xgroh, yes, you're absolutetely right, paroneayea, I've forgotten what tivoization really is21:14
paroneayeano need to apologize21:15
* greg-g catches back up a bit.... only slightly21:19
greg-goh, minifying is a specific thing? not just "I'm gonna take some stuff out by hand"?21:19
mralexyeah, it's a method of compressing JS by removing white space, comments, line breaks, and shortening method and variable names21:20
paroneayeagreg-g: it programmatically takes javascript and compresses it to a point where it's super fast to run but (nearly) unreadable to program21:20
greg-gright right, I knew _of_ that process, didn't realize it was called "minifying"21:20
akozakgreg-g, did you all see:
ea4xgrjust to clarify: "fast" as in terms of downloading the library, not as in terms of the running time21:23
paroneayeaea4xgr: some minifiers also greatly improve computation time iirc21:25
paroneayeaor, if not greatly, somewhat :)21:25
* paroneayea has no evidence of his statement atm21:25
ea4xgrparoneayea: interesting21:26
nkinkadeea4xgr: Sorry about the delay.21:27
ea4xgrnkinkade: no problem21:27
nkinkadeLet's take a quick look at your git issues.21:27
JED3paroneayea: depends on the js engine and how it tokenizes scripts (hence why removing spurious characters could improve exec time)21:27
ea4xgrok, what command should I issue?21:27
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ea4xgrparoneayea: is the evidence21:29
ea4xgr"The ADVANCED_OPTIMIZATIONS transformations include: "21:29
nkinkadeea4xgr: Try it one more time.  I screwed up all over the place yesterday.  I found another typo. :-/21:30
ea4xgrdon't worry; stuff like that happens all the times21:30
nkinkadeI should know. ;-)21:30
ea4xgrssh a7/a8 yields connection refused21:30
greg-gparoneayea: saw it mentioned on the microblogs a bit today, haven't read it/looked at it yet21:30
nkinkadeea4xgr: Try git.21:31
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ea4xgrnkinkade: may I priv?21:31
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nkinkadeea4xgr: Sure, but is it really necessary?21:32
nkinkadeUnless you are giving me passwords, then it's probably nothing that can't be in this channel.21:32
ea4xgrno, I just did not want to bother the ppl w/ my error messages21:32
nkinkadeea4xgr: http://pastebin.com21:32
nkinkade(or whichever you prefer)21:32
paroneayeaea4xgr: yeah, if you're pastebin'ing it, we can handle a bit of noise :)21:33
nkinkadeIt's better to have all this logged, anyway, but definitely use pastebin rather than pasting into the channel.21:33
paroneayeaunless you misread the topic of #cc, then nkinkade might have to clean the logs :)21:34
paroneayeawe haven't had any noisy credit card spammers in a while though it seems21:35
mralexshouldn't it be ":monaco.git" not ":monaco"?21:36
ea4xgryou are right - these problems may happen in the future to someone and he/she could use the logs21:36
ea4xgrmralex: bottom monospace at
nkinkadeea4xgr: I just turned on verbose debugging.  If you try a push again you should get a lot more info on the terminal.21:37
ea4xgrmyUsername@myDomainWithoutDotOrg - like my e-mail address, but w/o the ".org" part21:39
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akozakhmm, anyone have any thoughs re: i7 vs. pheonom II x4?22:11
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ea4xgrnkinkade: I've been disconnected a few times; I might have lost some messages22:13
nkinkadeea4xgr: I keep getting sidetracked.  I think I've just overlooked something stupidly simple.  Let me review what I've done one more time.  Setting up access is usually really really easy and goes without a problem.22:19
ea4xgrnkinkade: chances are I did something wrong with .git, though I can't really figure out anything suspicious22:19
nkinkadeea4xgr: Maybe, but I'm feeling like it may be on my side.22:20
nkinkadeI'm looking now.22:20
ea4xgrfrom the log, it seems I'm readonly on monaco, so I couldn't push22:20
ea4xgrok... I'll just w822:20
nkinkadeea4xgr: Can you do anything with validator and libvalidator22:25
nkinkadeI have them set up differently, so I'm curious if either of those work.22:26
ea4xgrnkinkade: I was able to download both using "git clone git://*validator.git"22:28
nkinkadeea4xgr: Right, anyone should be able to, but can you with git@code....22:29
ea4xgrnkinkade: my bad; yes, I can22:31
nkinkadeea4xgr: Okay, so somehow I'm doing something wrong with the others.  I'll focus on the diff between the two.22:31
nkinkadeea4xgr: I think the problem may be on your side.  I just tested this and was able to push to monaco.git.22:37
nkinkadeSince you are able to get r/w access to validator, then it seems your key must be good.22:37
nkinkadeCan you send me .git/config for monaco on your machine.22:38
nkinkadeea4xgr: is fine.22:39
ea4xgrI didn't have this [rejected] message earlier22:42
nkinkadeea4xgr: It seems to be working for you.22:42
ea4xgrinstead I had
nkinkadeTry doing a pull first.22:42
ea4xgrok :)22:42
nkinkadeI push a file called 'lol' which you can remove.22:42
nkinkadeIf you didn't change anything in your config and it's now working, then the problem must have been that I had used an illegal repo description.22:45
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nkinkadeI had a URL in the desc., and decided to change it for just non-special characters wondering if chars like : and / might be messing it up.22:46
sparris there a place on the website to find a link to all of the different license pages?22:46
ea4xgrnkinkade: I was able to push code and rm lol22:46
nkinkadesparr: All the current licenses, or every license that ever existed?22:46
ea4xgrnkinkade: would it be possible to add a description in viewgit (it says [no description]) myself?22:47
sparrat least the one, preferably the other :)22:47
nkinkadeea4xgr: I guess it was that the "description" field in gitosis.conf for a [repo] section cannot contain one or both of : and /22:47
nkinkadeWho knew?  Not me, but I do now. :-)22:47
nkinkadesparr: No such list exists because technically there are hundreds of licenses, when you include jurisdiction-specific ones.22:48
nkinkadesparr: But we do have them all in RDF format.22:48
nkinkadeIt's somewhat large file.22:48
sparrI was hoping for something like but that also included things like CC022:49
ea4xgrnkinkade: so the other two new repos should be working, I guess22:49
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nkinkadesparr: There are just too many to be included in a single page.22:50
nkinkadeAre you talking about licenses, or just license types like BY-SA?22:51
sparri'm not sure22:51
ea4xgrnkinkade: thank you for help22:54
nkinkadeea4xgr: No problem, sorry it took so long for me to solve.22:54
nkinkadeI just suspect that some a couple chars in a description field would cause it break.22:55
ea4xgrnkinkade: as for the descriptions for viewgit, as far as I understand, I would need to send them to you and you could add them, because you have admin rights which are required for this operation?22:56
nkinkadeea4xgr: Right.22:56
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