Thursday, 2010-02-11

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meoblast001the creative commons BY-SA, is there a way to make it so you only share under that exact same license03:59
meoblast001not compatible ones03:59
paroneayeameoblast001: no04:01
paroneayeawell, I mean04:01
paroneayeaany derivatives from X work, released under BY-SA will have to have those derivative parts compatible with BY-SA04:02
paroneayeabut incorporating parts of CC BY into CC BY-SA, no there is no way to prevent people from doing that04:02
paroneayeabut people cannot "downgrade" or remove the copyleft from BY-SA04:03
paroneayeasimply by releasing subsequent works04:03
paroneayeadoes that answer your question?04:03
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meoblast001ok, thanks04:07
meoblast001paroneayea: i'm asking this on behalf of a friend04:07
meoblast001copied and pasted to him04:07
meoblast001paroneayea: both him and i are confused04:09
paroneayeahere's how it works:04:12
paroneayea - "compatible" license, like CC BY, can be incorporated into a CC BY-SA work04:12
paroneayea - someone can't relicense your work under CC BY-SA though without permission04:13
paroneayeaer, can't relicense it under CC BY04:13
meoblast001this is Cc BY-SA that he is using04:13
meoblast001ah, ok04:13
paroneayeaso it "protects" it by making sure people have to keep derivatives under the same free-as-in-freedom license04:14
paroneayeamake sense?04:14
paroneayeagreat :)04:14
meoblast001paroneayea: oh no04:18
meoblast001version 3 is not listed there04:18
paroneayeahm, I don't know why it isn't tbh.  However I think the FSF approves of v3, since they agreed to the wikipedia transition from GFDL->CC BY-SA 3.0 ?04:20
paroneayeanot to speak for the fsf though.04:20
meoblast001paroneayea: what does Unported mean?04:24
paroneayeait means it hasn't been ported to a specific jurisdiction04:24
paroneayeawhich means it works everywhere, unported ftw ;)04:24
paroneayea(more or less anyway)04:25
meoblast001paroneayea: where can i get a text copy of the CC-BY-SA v304:25
paroneayeathere is no official text version really04:27
meoblast001paroneayea: should i just copy and paste the laywer version?04:28
paroneayeaslightly less marked up version04:28
paroneayeawell, unstyled04:28
meoblast001ok, thanks04:33
meoblast001paroneayea: just going to double check, it is legal to use CC BY-SA for music in a project that has code licensed GPLv3, right?04:33
meoblast001ok, thanks04:34
paroneayeaworking on a game then?04:34
paroneayeawhat game, out of curiosity?04:34
paroneayeahas it been released?04:35
meoblast001just something i'm throwing together quickly04:35
meoblast001nothing big and official like the projects in ~mysticgalaxies04:35
paroneayeadoesn't appear to be anything there04:35
paroneayeajust started, or not uploaded?  or me being daft (as usual)? :)04:36
meoblast001let me make sure i typed that right04:36
meoblast001paroneayea: Bazaar uses a hidden directory .bzr04:37
meoblast001you need to pass that address to Bazaar04:37
meoblast001bzr branch <insert directory here>04:37
meoblast001paroneayea: http://bazaar-vcs.org04:39
paroneayeayeah, I've used bazaar, I'm just being foolish I guess04:39
paroneayeacloning now04:39
meoblast001not foolish, you probably just didn't recognize that that was a bazaar repo04:40
paroneayeaFailed to load file 'data/maps/main.bmap'04:41
paroneayeaI see "amap" there though04:41
meoblast001make compiler, make resources04:41
meoblast001you have to make the map compiler04:41
meoblast001then make the maps with the compiler04:42
meoblast001i should make a make all that handles all of those04:42
paroneayeashould I be able to do anything? :)04:43
paroneayeaI appear to have a title screen with music playing, but keys don't seem to do anything04:43
meoblast001no, not yet :P04:43
paroneayeaokay :)04:43
meoblast001still working on adding the object controller and the physics controller04:43
paroneayeawell, good luck with it!04:47
meoblast001paroneayea: thanks04:47
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paroneayeankinkade: how is zope on staging normally started?16:30
paroneayeaby hand, by apache?16:30
paroneayeait didn't look like it was via apache16:31
nkinkadeparoneayea: $ sudo /etc/init.d/cc_engine-run-cc_engine restart16:31
paroneayeankinkade: great, thx16:31
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paroneayeahm, doesn't stop when I run `sudo /etc/init.d/cc_engine-run-cc_engine stop`16:45
paroneayeaError: The directory named as part of the path var/zdaemonsock does not exist.16:45
paroneayea(line 8 in file:///var/www/
paroneayeaoh, does the directory you run it from matter maybe?16:46
paroneayeayep, that was it16:46
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paroneayeankinkade: so, I should be serving with fastcgi w/ host and port 9080, right?16:52
nkinkadeparoneayea: I forget.  Is that what it's doing now?16:52
paroneayeaheh, I think so.. :x16:53
nkinkadeThat looks right.16:53
nkinkadeTake a look at /etc/varnish/creativecommons.vcl to get an idea of how things are being routed.16:53
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paroneayea/var/www/ seems to be serving with paste's normal http server, not fastcgi?17:02
paroneayeaI get no results when I do that though17:02
paroneayeaand when I try serving with fastcgi17:02
paroneayeaand try viewing a page, it just sits there17:02
paroneayeaImportError: No module named RDF17:40
paroneayeankinkade: ^^17:40
paroneayeado we have rdflib installed on a7?17:40
paroneayeadamn confusing names17:40
nkinkadeparoneayea: I'm not sure, have you looked? :-)17:41
paroneayeaoh, is this running debian?17:41
nkinkadeparoneayea: Yup.17:41
paroneayea... would I have permission to just install it then? :)17:41
nkinkadeIt doesn't appear that the system package is installed.17:41
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nkinkadeparoneayea: you should have sudo rights.17:42
paroneayeawell, I meant like, it wouldn't bother you that I am installing packages17:42
paroneayeayou don't seem to be the type of sysadmin who is bothered by that, but I haven't done it before, so wanted to make sure17:42
nkinkadeparoneayea: Not at all, especially if they are installed via apt-get.17:42
paroneayeaokay then :)17:43
nkinkadeIf you need to install something from source, and must run make install that will splat junk in every corner of the OS, then that I have a problem with. :-)17:43
paroneayeanoted :)17:43
nkinkadeBut I don't have any issues with packages installed via apt, and most everything we need is in there.17:44
nkinkadeIf it isn't it's usually available from the testing or unstable repos, so we can still usually install a system package.17:44
paroneayeain that case, we have liftoff :)
paroneayeaoh hum.17:45
paroneayeamaybe not :P17:45
nkinkadeIt appears to be working.17:48
paroneayeayeah, it works it seems.  It didn't appear to be for a second, could be a fluke over on my end17:48
paroneayeathx for your help nkinkade :)17:49
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nkinkadeMaybe the implementation is still a work in progress.18:41
paroneayeathere are a bunch of errors having to do with the target_lang stuff, this is one of them :\18:41
paroneayeaCCLicenseError: Language en does not exist for jurisdiction ec18:42
paroneayeaI noticed a bunch of errors appear once I added target_lang stuff everywhere18:42
paroneayeaso I will have to weed those out18:42
paroneayeathx for pointing that one out18:43
nkinkadeOoops.  Just realized that I missed the staff call.18:46
nkinkadeThe new time threw me, even though I had a reminder in my inbox.18:47
nkinkadeparoneayea: What went on on the call?18:47
nkinkadeAnything interesting?18:47
paroneayeankinkade: lots of mission statement talk18:48
nkinkadeWas it useful or basically just a reiteration of what was in the email?18:48
paroneayeamostly iterating on that before the all-hands18:48
paroneayeawe'll iterate on it even further next week it sounds like18:48
paroneayeaso you just missed the middle iteration :)18:48
nkinkadeBut I mean were new ideas introduces or did people just bat around things that were already stated in the email.18:49
paroneayeaI didn't feel like anything huge outside of the email was stated, though it was interesting discussion18:49
paroneayeaie, don't worry about missing it18:50
paroneayeankinkade: so as for that error, two days ago I finally passed in target_lang everywhere, one of the last items on the todo before staging.  Unfortunately there are a bunch of places that require 'en-us' vs 'en_US' in the code, and all of those inconsistencies started to cause problems18:53
paroneayeaso this is probably the biggest WIP piece left... I figured it might be best to get it up on staging right now anyway even though I need to sort that through18:53
nkinkadeparoneayea: That's fine.  About the only thing that anyone uses the staging chooser for is checking translations before they go live.18:54
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anth_xis there a definitive answer somewhere as to whether -NC licenses are compatible with ad-funded for-profit sites (like youtube)?19:06
anth_xthe "Defining Noncommercial" doc seems close, but is more of a survey of what people tend to think than a statement of intent on the part of CC.19:06
nkinkadeanth_x: No, no such definitive answer exists.19:12
nkinkadeThe basic rule of thumb is that if you aren't sure, then you should ask the copyright holder for permission.19:13
anth_xunderstood, and entirely sensible. wondering what to do in cases where that's not practical/possible.19:14
anth_xi take it "Defining..." is the best sense of "the community" as we know it.19:15
nkinkadeThere probably isn't much that you can do if you can't reach the copyright holder.  Two things occur to me: 1) Don't use the work 2) Take your chances and use it anyway.19:16
nkinkadeanth_x: There was a year long study that took place a while back and that wiki page is largely based on the results of the study.19:16
anth_xheh. well, yes. i'm wondering what the "chances" in #2 are.19:16
anth_xbut it's okay: lacking any statement of intent on the part of the license drafters, i understand those "chances" are my responsibility.19:17
nkinkade"Chances" would entail you using an NC work on a for-profit website funded by ads and then just hoping that the copyright holder doesn't have a problem with it, if they even find out about it.19:21
mralexJED3: i just made the mistake of looking at the top search queries at search.cc19:21
JED3mralex, its hard to look away at times19:21
nkinkadeanth_x: 1) Most likely the copyright holder would never even know unless your site is highly visible. 2) Even if they do find out, they may not have a problem with it 3) If they do find out and have a problem with it, then most likely they would just ask you to take it down, not sue you for all your worth.19:23
JED3paroneayea, my workaround for getting the rest api to import cc.license still makes me giggle19:25
nkinkademralex: JED3: What is disturbing about the top searches?19:26
JED3nkinkade, not the top searches, but seeing the queries in real time19:26
nkinkadeJED3: How is that done?19:26
mralexnkinkade: facebook, google, are the top 3 searches from firefox19:26
JED3i wrote a script19:27
mralexonly 20% of the past month visitors have not come via firefox19:27
mralexanalytics has a full breakdown19:27
JED3nkinkade, a8: sudo python /home/john/queries.py19:27
nkinkademralex: Ah, I see now.  I tell you, I think we should kill that Firefox search engine plugin.19:27
JED3nkinkade, its free advertising, mralex can you find the clickthroughs to from
mralexnkinkade: if not kill it, search really should be redone as a marketing project. it has next to no use and only exists as a bandwidth sink these days19:28
mralexJED3: yes19:28
mralexJED3: 9% of visits19:29
JED3... to have as a referer?19:29
mralexoh, backwards.19:30
nkinkadeJED3: I doubt that is advertises much, especially considering what mralex said and looking at the search queries.  More than anything I think it angers people.19:30
JED3... or to click through to cc.org19:30
JED3ahh okay19:30
mralex0.09% :)19:30 -> cc19:30
JED3nkinkade, thats certainly true in regards to it being an annoyance for some19:31
nkinkadeAnd they probably only click through to so they can find the contact for and say: WHY DID COME ONTO MY COMPUTER?  YOU SUCK.  YOUR  RESULTS ARE WORTHLESS.  IM GOING TO STOP USING FIREFOX.19:31
mralexonly a few of hte 2000 people find that contact form19:32
paroneayeaJED3: when in doubt, stdout19:34
JED3paroneayea, thats tattooed on my knuckles19:35
paroneayeaand the sequel19:38
paroneayeait's not a sin to stdin19:38
paroneayeaI don't know what to say about stderr19:38
JED3that looks incredibly interesting, wish i was going to pycon this year19:39
paroneayeaJED3: did you see the ChiPy talks he gave?19:39
paroneayeaI was at the last one19:39
paroneayealuckily carl karsten is awesome and recorded them19:39
JED3i haven't, seen slides but not video19:39
JED3do you have a link?19:39
paroneayea <- latest one, which is about what happened to the GIL after he gave his talk19:40
paroneayeaand then the one that created the shitstorm:19:40
paroneayea <- oh hey, who's that guy?  looks familiar :)19:42
paroneayeathe "one that started the shitstorm" I say because19:43
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paroneayeait managed to get more hits than PyCon's videos19:43
paroneayeaand actually resulted in noticable changes to python's core19:43
* paroneayea giving a lightning talk at ChiPy tonight19:46
JED3paroneayea, whats the topic?19:47
paroneayeathe new python api in blender 2.519:47
JED3ohh cool19:49
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paroneayeaJED3: ping20:35
JED3paroneayea, ACK20:39
paroneayeaso I am trying to figure out the right way to go about fixing this20:39
paroneayeaI mentioned it a few times before, but now I am actually working on it :)20:39
paroneayeaI think I have an answer but I wanted your input20:39
JED3sure, shoot20:39
paroneayeaso there are a bunch of points where we get the target_lang or pass it in somewhere20:40
paroneayeaand they all take the locale and country in a form like20:40
paroneayea'en-us' or 'en_US'20:40
paroneayeawhich means I have hacks all over the codebase to swap things around and etc20:40
paroneayeaso, I am either thinking of one of two things:20:41
paroneayeaeither keeping locale and country as separate variables until it's time to pass it in someplace everywhere, in which case you use something like:20:42
paroneayeafoo_method(target_lang=util.target_lang_underscore(locale, country))20:42
paroneayeaor just having functions that just coerce it into the right format no matter how it is currently formatted20:43
paroneayeamight sound trivial but I have to homogenize a whole bunch of things to follow this route, so I'd like your input20:43
JED3okay, may I ask which component uses a hyphenated repr for the locale?20:44
paroneayeait very may well be just cc.license.by_code :)20:45
paroneayeaalso, browsers *supply* it as hyphenated20:45
paroneayeaso that's what we get coming into the request object20:45
JED3ahh duh ;)20:45
paroneayeaI honestly don't know why cc.license expects the hyphenated form20:46
paroneayeawhen clearly all our po files and etc are following the underscore format20:46
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JED3i personally like "xx_CC" as an acceptable parameter and the country is derived from that instead of the other way around20:48
paroneayeaso I will just have that be the "standard"20:48
paroneayeaand when we need to do the reverse, we will use a function that converts it20:49
JED3plus with that method you could incorporate your locale/country fallbacks when you do the locale string splitting20:49
paroneayeathat's very sensible20:49
paroneayeathx very much JED3.  This has been bothering me since I started dealing with it, though I haven't put the time to deal with it till right now20:50
paroneayeait will be a huge relief to just get it over and done with20:50
JED3def actualLocale(locale):20:51
JED3    """Determine and return the actual locale based on the requested one.20:51
JED3    If the requested locale is supported, simply return that.  If not, check20:51
JED3    the language only specification (i.e. es instead of es_ES).  If that20:51
JED3    is not supported, return our fallback (English)."""20:51
JED3    supported_locales = locales()20:51
JED3    if locale in supported_locales:20:51
JED3        return locale20:51
JED3    if locale.split('_')[0] in supported_locales:20:51
JED3        return locale.split('_')[0]20:51
JED3    return 'en'20:51
paroneayeawhat's that from?20:51
JED3from the rest api20:52
JED3thats not quite what you need though20:52
paroneayeaalthough I do need to do that in some places too20:53
paroneayeado a fallback20:53
paroneayeato just the language without country20:53
JED3yeah buts odd is that i see "en_US" as a fallback more commonly used20:54 CC code20:54
paroneayeayeah, 'en' makes more sense probably20:55
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JED3nkinkade, ping22:24
nkinkadeJED3: ?22:24
JED3hey you're pretty familiar with license_xsl right?22:24
JED3nkinkade ^^22:25
nkinkadeJED3: I'm somewhat familiar with it from a user perspective, but not at all from a code perspective.22:25
JED3ahh okay22:25
nkinkadeThat is, I know how to use it to launch new jurisdictions, but that is a fairly superficial use of it.22:26
JED3okay, well i think this issue can only be resolved by changing the code in the xslt doc22:28
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