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meoblast001 | hi | 03:58 |
---|---|---|
meoblast001 | the creative commons BY-SA, is there a way to make it so you only share under that exact same license | 03:59 |
meoblast001 | not compatible ones | 03:59 |
paroneayea | meoblast001: no | 04:01 |
paroneayea | well, I mean | 04:01 |
paroneayea | any derivatives from X work, released under BY-SA will have to have those derivative parts compatible with BY-SA | 04:02 |
paroneayea | but incorporating parts of CC BY into CC BY-SA, no there is no way to prevent people from doing that | 04:02 |
paroneayea | but people cannot "downgrade" or remove the copyleft from BY-SA | 04:03 |
paroneayea | simply by releasing subsequent works | 04:03 |
paroneayea | does that answer your question? | 04:03 |
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meoblast001 | ok, thanks | 04:07 |
meoblast001 | paroneayea: i'm asking this on behalf of a friend | 04:07 |
meoblast001 | copied and pasted to him | 04:07 |
paroneayea | cool | 04:08 |
meoblast001 | paroneayea: both him and i are confused | 04:09 |
paroneayea | here's how it works: | 04:12 |
paroneayea | - "compatible" license, like CC BY, can be incorporated into a CC BY-SA work | 04:12 |
paroneayea | - someone can't relicense your work under CC BY-SA though without permission | 04:13 |
paroneayea | er, can't relicense it under CC BY | 04:13 |
meoblast001 | this is Cc BY-SA that he is using | 04:13 |
meoblast001 | ah, ok | 04:13 |
paroneayea | yes | 04:13 |
paroneayea | so it "protects" it by making sure people have to keep derivatives under the same free-as-in-freedom license | 04:14 |
paroneayea | make sense? | 04:14 |
meoblast001 | yeah | 04:14 |
meoblast001 | thanks | 04:14 |
paroneayea | great :) | 04:14 |
meoblast001 | paroneayea: oh no | 04:18 |
meoblast001 | http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#OtherLicenses | 04:18 |
meoblast001 | version 3 is not listed there | 04:18 |
paroneayea | hm, I don't know why it isn't tbh. However I think the FSF approves of v3, since they agreed to the wikipedia transition from GFDL->CC BY-SA 3.0 ? | 04:20 |
paroneayea | not to speak for the fsf though. | 04:20 |
meoblast001 | ok | 04:21 |
meoblast001 | paroneayea: what does Unported mean? | 04:24 |
paroneayea | it means it hasn't been ported to a specific jurisdiction | 04:24 |
meoblast001 | ? | 04:24 |
paroneayea | which means it works everywhere, unported ftw ;) | 04:24 |
paroneayea | (more or less anyway) | 04:25 |
meoblast001 | ah | 04:25 |
meoblast001 | paroneayea: where can i get a text copy of the CC-BY-SA v3 | 04:25 |
paroneayea | there is no official text version really | 04:27 |
meoblast001 | paroneayea: should i just copy and paste the laywer version? | 04:28 |
paroneayea | http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/legalcode-plain | 04:28 |
paroneayea | slightly less marked up version | 04:28 |
paroneayea | well, unstyled | 04:28 |
meoblast001 | ok, thanks | 04:33 |
meoblast001 | paroneayea: just going to double check, it is legal to use CC BY-SA for music in a project that has code licensed GPLv3, right? | 04:33 |
paroneayea | yes | 04:34 |
meoblast001 | ok, thanks | 04:34 |
paroneayea | np | 04:34 |
paroneayea | working on a game then? | 04:34 |
meoblast001 | yeah | 04:34 |
paroneayea | what game, out of curiosity? | 04:34 |
paroneayea | has it been released? | 04:35 |
meoblast001 | http://bzr.mysticgalaxies.com:8080/bzr/~meoblast001/dontwant | 04:35 |
meoblast001 | just something i'm throwing together quickly | 04:35 |
meoblast001 | nothing big and official like the projects in ~mysticgalaxies | 04:35 |
paroneayea | doesn't appear to be anything there | 04:35 |
paroneayea | just started, or not uploaded? or me being daft (as usual)? :) | 04:36 |
meoblast001 | let me make sure i typed that right | 04:36 |
meoblast001 | paroneayea: Bazaar uses a hidden directory .bzr | 04:37 |
meoblast001 | you need to pass that address to Bazaar | 04:37 |
meoblast001 | bzr branch <insert directory here> | 04:37 |
paroneayea | ah | 04:38 |
meoblast001 | paroneayea: http://bazaar-vcs.org | 04:39 |
paroneayea | yeah, I've used bazaar, I'm just being foolish I guess | 04:39 |
paroneayea | cloning now | 04:39 |
meoblast001 | not foolish, you probably just didn't recognize that that was a bazaar repo | 04:40 |
paroneayea | Failed to load file 'data/maps/main.bmap' | 04:41 |
paroneayea | I see "amap" there though | 04:41 |
meoblast001 | make compiler, make resources | 04:41 |
meoblast001 | you have to make the map compiler | 04:41 |
meoblast001 | then make the maps with the compiler | 04:42 |
paroneayea | aha | 04:42 |
meoblast001 | i should make a make all that handles all of those | 04:42 |
paroneayea | should I be able to do anything? :) | 04:43 |
paroneayea | I appear to have a title screen with music playing, but keys don't seem to do anything | 04:43 |
meoblast001 | no, not yet :P | 04:43 |
paroneayea | okay :) | 04:43 |
meoblast001 | still working on adding the object controller and the physics controller | 04:43 |
paroneayea | well, good luck with it! | 04:47 |
meoblast001 | paroneayea: thanks | 04:47 |
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paroneayea | nkinkade: how is zope on staging normally started? | 16:30 |
paroneayea | by hand, by apache? | 16:30 |
paroneayea | it didn't look like it was via apache | 16:31 |
nkinkade | paroneayea: $ sudo /etc/init.d/cc_engine-run-cc_engine restart | 16:31 |
paroneayea | nkinkade: great, thx | 16:31 |
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paroneayea | hm, doesn't stop when I run `sudo /etc/init.d/cc_engine-run-cc_engine stop` | 16:45 |
paroneayea | Error: The directory named as part of the path var/zdaemonsock does not exist. | 16:45 |
paroneayea | (line 8 in file:///var/www/staging.creativecommons.org/cc.engine/zdaemon.conf) | 16:45 |
paroneayea | oh, does the directory you run it from matter maybe? | 16:46 |
paroneayea | yep, that was it | 16:46 |
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paroneayea | nkinkade: so, I should be serving with fastcgi w/ host 127.0.0.1 and port 9080, right? | 16:52 |
nkinkade | paroneayea: I forget. Is that what it's doing now? | 16:52 |
paroneayea | heh, I think so.. :x | 16:53 |
nkinkade | That looks right. | 16:53 |
nkinkade | Take a look at /etc/varnish/creativecommons.vcl to get an idea of how things are being routed. | 16:53 |
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paroneayea | /var/www/staging.creativecommons.org/cc.engine/deploy.ini seems to be serving with paste's normal http server, not fastcgi? | 17:02 |
paroneayea | I get no results when I do that though | 17:02 |
paroneayea | and when I try serving with fastcgi | 17:02 |
paroneayea | and try viewing a page, it just sits there | 17:02 |
paroneayea | ImportError: No module named RDF | 17:40 |
paroneayea | nkinkade: ^^ | 17:40 |
paroneayea | do we have rdflib installed on a7? | 17:40 |
paroneayea | errr | 17:40 |
paroneayea | librdf | 17:40 |
paroneayea | damn confusing names | 17:40 |
nkinkade | paroneayea: I'm not sure, have you looked? :-) | 17:41 |
paroneayea | oh, is this running debian? | 17:41 |
nkinkade | paroneayea: Yup. | 17:41 |
paroneayea | ... would I have permission to just install it then? :) | 17:41 |
nkinkade | It doesn't appear that the system package is installed. | 17:41 |
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nkinkade | paroneayea: you should have sudo rights. | 17:42 |
paroneayea | well, I meant like, it wouldn't bother you that I am installing packages | 17:42 |
paroneayea | you don't seem to be the type of sysadmin who is bothered by that, but I haven't done it before, so wanted to make sure | 17:42 |
nkinkade | paroneayea: Not at all, especially if they are installed via apt-get. | 17:42 |
paroneayea | okay then :) | 17:43 |
paroneayea | great | 17:43 |
nkinkade | If you need to install something from source, and must run make install that will splat junk in every corner of the OS, then that I have a problem with. :-) | 17:43 |
paroneayea | noted :) | 17:43 |
nkinkade | But I don't have any issues with packages installed via apt, and most everything we need is in there. | 17:44 |
nkinkade | If it isn't it's usually available from the testing or unstable repos, so we can still usually install a system package. | 17:44 |
paroneayea | in that case, we have liftoff :)http://staging.creativecommons.org/choose/ | 17:44 |
paroneayea | oh hum. | 17:45 |
paroneayea | maybe not :P | 17:45 |
nkinkade | It appears to be working. | 17:48 |
paroneayea | yeah, it works it seems. It didn't appear to be for a second, could be a fluke over on my end | 17:48 |
paroneayea | thx for your help nkinkade :) | 17:49 |
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nkinkade | paroneayea: http://staging.creativecommons.org/choose/results-one?q_1=2&q_1=1&field_commercial=yes&field_derivatives=sa&field_jurisdiction=ec&field_format=&field_worktitle=test&field_attribute_to_name=test&field_attribute_to_url=test&field_sourceurl=test&field_morepermissionsurl=test&lang=en-us&language=en-us&n_questions=3 | 18:41 |
nkinkade | Maybe the implementation is still a work in progress. | 18:41 |
paroneayea | there are a bunch of errors having to do with the target_lang stuff, this is one of them :\ | 18:41 |
paroneayea | CCLicenseError: Language en does not exist for jurisdiction ec | 18:42 |
paroneayea | I noticed a bunch of errors appear once I added target_lang stuff everywhere | 18:42 |
paroneayea | so I will have to weed those out | 18:42 |
paroneayea | thx for pointing that one out | 18:43 |
nkinkade | Ooops. Just realized that I missed the staff call. | 18:46 |
paroneayea | heh | 18:47 |
nkinkade | The new time threw me, even though I had a reminder in my inbox. | 18:47 |
nkinkade | paroneayea: What went on on the call? | 18:47 |
nkinkade | Anything interesting? | 18:47 |
paroneayea | nkinkade: lots of mission statement talk | 18:48 |
nkinkade | Was it useful or basically just a reiteration of what was in the email? | 18:48 |
paroneayea | mostly iterating on that before the all-hands | 18:48 |
paroneayea | we'll iterate on it even further next week it sounds like | 18:48 |
paroneayea | so you just missed the middle iteration :) | 18:48 |
nkinkade | But I mean were new ideas introduces or did people just bat around things that were already stated in the email. | 18:49 |
paroneayea | I didn't feel like anything huge outside of the email was stated, though it was interesting discussion | 18:49 |
paroneayea | ie, don't worry about missing it | 18:50 |
paroneayea | nkinkade: so as for that error, two days ago I finally passed in target_lang everywhere, one of the last items on the todo before staging. Unfortunately there are a bunch of places that require 'en-us' vs 'en_US' in the code, and all of those inconsistencies started to cause problems | 18:53 |
paroneayea | so this is probably the biggest WIP piece left... I figured it might be best to get it up on staging right now anyway even though I need to sort that through | 18:53 |
nkinkade | paroneayea: That's fine. About the only thing that anyone uses the staging chooser for is checking translations before they go live. | 18:54 |
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anth_x | is there a definitive answer somewhere as to whether -NC licenses are compatible with ad-funded for-profit sites (like youtube)? | 19:06 |
anth_x | the "Defining Noncommercial" doc seems close, but is more of a survey of what people tend to think than a statement of intent on the part of CC. | 19:06 |
nkinkade | anth_x: No, no such definitive answer exists. | 19:12 |
nkinkade | The basic rule of thumb is that if you aren't sure, then you should ask the copyright holder for permission. | 19:13 |
anth_x | understood, and entirely sensible. wondering what to do in cases where that's not practical/possible. | 19:14 |
anth_x | i take it "Defining..." is the best sense of "the community" as we know it. | 19:15 |
nkinkade | There probably isn't much that you can do if you can't reach the copyright holder. Two things occur to me: 1) Don't use the work 2) Take your chances and use it anyway. | 19:16 |
nkinkade | anth_x: There was a year long study that took place a while back and that wiki page is largely based on the results of the study. | 19:16 |
anth_x | heh. well, yes. i'm wondering what the "chances" in #2 are. | 19:16 |
anth_x | but it's okay: lacking any statement of intent on the part of the license drafters, i understand those "chances" are my responsibility. | 19:17 |
nkinkade | "Chances" would entail you using an NC work on a for-profit website funded by ads and then just hoping that the copyright holder doesn't have a problem with it, if they even find out about it. | 19:21 |
mralex | JED3: i just made the mistake of looking at the top search queries at search.cc | 19:21 |
mralex | again | 19:21 |
JED3 | mralex, its hard to look away at times | 19:21 |
nkinkade | anth_x: 1) Most likely the copyright holder would never even know unless your site is highly visible. 2) Even if they do find out, they may not have a problem with it 3) If they do find out and have a problem with it, then most likely they would just ask you to take it down, not sue you for all your worth. | 19:23 |
JED3 | paroneayea, my workaround for getting the rest api to import cc.license still makes me giggle | 19:25 |
nkinkade | mralex: JED3: What is disturbing about the top searches? | 19:26 |
JED3 | nkinkade, not the top searches, but seeing the queries in real time | 19:26 |
nkinkade | JED3: How is that done? | 19:26 |
mralex | nkinkade: facebook, google, facebook.com are the top 3 searches from firefox | 19:26 |
JED3 | i wrote a script | 19:27 |
mralex | only 20% of the past month visitors have not come via firefox | 19:27 |
mralex | analytics has a full breakdown | 19:27 |
JED3 | nkinkade, a8: sudo python /home/john/queries.py | 19:27 |
nkinkade | mralex: Ah, I see now. I tell you, I think we should kill that Firefox search engine plugin. | 19:27 |
JED3 | nkinkade, its free advertising, mralex can you find the clickthroughs to cc.org from search.cc.org? | 19:28 |
mralex | nkinkade: if not kill it, search really should be redone as a marketing project. it has next to no use and only exists as a bandwidth sink these days | 19:28 |
mralex | JED3: yes | 19:28 |
mralex | JED3: 9% of visits | 19:29 |
JED3 | ... to cc.org have search.cc.org as a referer? | 19:29 |
mralex | oh, backwards. | 19:30 |
nkinkade | JED3: I doubt that is advertises much, especially considering what mralex said and looking at the search queries. More than anything I think it angers people. | 19:30 |
JED3 | ... or to search.cc.org click through to cc.org | 19:30 |
JED3 | ahh okay | 19:30 |
mralex | 0.09% :) | 19:30 |
mralex | search.cc -> cc | 19:30 |
JED3 | nkinkade, thats certainly true in regards to it being an annoyance for some | 19:31 |
nkinkade | And they probably only click through to CC.org so they can find the contact for and say: WHY DID COME ONTO MY COMPUTER? YOU SUCK. YOUR RESULTS ARE WORTHLESS. IM GOING TO STOP USING FIREFOX. | 19:31 |
mralex | right | 19:31 |
mralex | only a few of hte 2000 people find that contact form | 19:32 |
paroneayea | JED3: when in doubt, stdout | 19:34 |
JED3 | paroneayea, thats tattooed on my knuckles | 19:35 |
paroneayea | and the sequel | 19:38 |
paroneayea | it's not a sin to stdin | 19:38 |
JED3 | haha | 19:38 |
paroneayea | I don't know what to say about stderr | 19:38 |
JED3 | paroneayea, http://bit.ly/bi755k | 19:38 |
JED3 | that looks incredibly interesting, wish i was going to pycon this year | 19:39 |
paroneayea | JED3: did you see the ChiPy talks he gave? | 19:39 |
paroneayea | I was at the last one | 19:39 |
paroneayea | luckily carl karsten is awesome and recorded them | 19:39 |
JED3 | i haven't, seen slides but not video | 19:39 |
JED3 | do you have a link? | 19:39 |
paroneayea | http://carlfk.blip.tv/file/3107867/ <- latest one, which is about what happened to the GIL after he gave his talk | 19:40 |
paroneayea | and then the one that created the shitstorm: | 19:40 |
paroneayea | http://carlfk.blip.tv/file/2232410/ | 19:41 |
paroneayea | http://carlfk.blip.tv/file/3107979/ <- oh hey, who's that guy? looks familiar :) | 19:42 |
paroneayea | the "one that started the shitstorm" I say because | 19:43 |
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paroneayea | it managed to get more hits than PyCon's videos | 19:43 |
paroneayea | and actually resulted in noticable changes to python's core | 19:43 |
* paroneayea giving a lightning talk at ChiPy tonight | 19:46 | |
JED3 | paroneayea, whats the topic? | 19:47 |
paroneayea | the new python api in blender 2.5 | 19:47 |
JED3 | ohh cool | 19:49 |
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paroneayea | JED3: ping | 20:35 |
JED3 | paroneayea, ACK | 20:39 |
paroneayea | so I am trying to figure out the right way to go about fixing this | 20:39 |
paroneayea | I mentioned it a few times before, but now I am actually working on it :) | 20:39 |
paroneayea | I think I have an answer but I wanted your input | 20:39 |
JED3 | sure, shoot | 20:39 |
paroneayea | so there are a bunch of points where we get the target_lang or pass it in somewhere | 20:40 |
paroneayea | and they all take the locale and country in a form like | 20:40 |
paroneayea | 'en-us' or 'en_US' | 20:40 |
paroneayea | which means I have hacks all over the codebase to swap things around and etc | 20:40 |
paroneayea | so, I am either thinking of one of two things: | 20:41 |
paroneayea | either keeping locale and country as separate variables until it's time to pass it in someplace everywhere, in which case you use something like: | 20:42 |
paroneayea | foo_method(target_lang=util.target_lang_underscore(locale, country)) | 20:42 |
paroneayea | or just having functions that just coerce it into the right format no matter how it is currently formatted | 20:43 |
paroneayea | might sound trivial but I have to homogenize a whole bunch of things to follow this route, so I'd like your input | 20:43 |
JED3 | okay, may I ask which component uses a hyphenated repr for the locale? | 20:44 |
paroneayea | it very may well be just cc.license.by_code :) | 20:45 |
paroneayea | also, browsers *supply* it as hyphenated | 20:45 |
paroneayea | so that's what we get coming into the request object | 20:45 |
JED3 | ahh duh ;) | 20:45 |
paroneayea | I honestly don't know why cc.license expects the hyphenated form | 20:46 |
paroneayea | when clearly all our po files and etc are following the underscore format | 20:46 |
JED3 | yeag | 20:47 |
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JED3 | i personally like "xx_CC" as an acceptable parameter and the country is derived from that instead of the other way around | 20:48 |
paroneayea | okay | 20:48 |
paroneayea | so I will just have that be the "standard" | 20:48 |
paroneayea | and when we need to do the reverse, we will use a function that converts it | 20:49 |
JED3 | plus with that method you could incorporate your locale/country fallbacks when you do the locale string splitting | 20:49 |
paroneayea | yeah | 20:49 |
paroneayea | okay | 20:49 |
paroneayea | that's very sensible | 20:49 |
paroneayea | thx very much JED3. This has been bothering me since I started dealing with it, though I haven't put the time to deal with it till right now | 20:50 |
paroneayea | it will be a huge relief to just get it over and done with | 20:50 |
JED3 | def actualLocale(locale): | 20:51 |
JED3 | """Determine and return the actual locale based on the requested one. | 20:51 |
JED3 | If the requested locale is supported, simply return that. If not, check | 20:51 |
JED3 | the language only specification (i.e. es instead of es_ES). If that | 20:51 |
JED3 | is not supported, return our fallback (English).""" | 20:51 |
JED3 | supported_locales = locales() | 20:51 |
JED3 | if locale in supported_locales: | 20:51 |
JED3 | return locale | 20:51 |
JED3 | if locale.split('_')[0] in supported_locales: | 20:51 |
JED3 | return locale.split('_')[0] | 20:51 |
JED3 | return 'en' | 20:51 |
paroneayea | what's that from? | 20:51 |
JED3 | from the rest api | 20:52 |
paroneayea | ah | 20:52 |
JED3 | thats not quite what you need though | 20:52 |
paroneayea | although I do need to do that in some places too | 20:53 |
paroneayea | do a fallback | 20:53 |
paroneayea | to just the language without country | 20:53 |
JED3 | yeah buts odd is that i see "en_US" as a fallback more commonly used | 20:54 |
JED3 | ...in CC code | 20:54 |
paroneayea | yeah, 'en' makes more sense probably | 20:55 |
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JED3 | nkinkade, ping | 22:24 |
nkinkade | JED3: ? | 22:24 |
JED3 | hey you're pretty familiar with license_xsl right? | 22:24 |
JED3 | nkinkade ^^ | 22:25 |
nkinkade | JED3: I'm somewhat familiar with it from a user perspective, but not at all from a code perspective. | 22:25 |
JED3 | ahh okay | 22:25 |
nkinkade | That is, I know how to use it to launch new jurisdictions, but that is a fairly superficial use of it. | 22:26 |
JED3 | okay, well i think this issue can only be resolved by changing the code in the xslt doc | 22:28 |
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