Tuesday, 2009-12-08

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FLHWEBHi, is any one here?06:14
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paulproteusFLHWEB, Yeah, what's up?06:22
FLHWEBHi, are you an admin of this wiki site?06:22
FLHWEBI meant are you an admin of wiki.creativecommons.org?06:23
FLHWEBIs any one here?06:25
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FLHWEBIs any one here?06:26
FLHWEBIs any one an admin of http://wiki.creativecommons.org?06:27
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JED3hi paulproteus06:38
paulproteusHey now.06:39
JED3how are things?06:39
paulproteusI want to be more sleepy than I am right now, though.06:43
paulproteusOther than that, all is well. (-;06:43
JED3ha, well thats good to hear06:43
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paroneayeamorning #cc16:16
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nathanyparoneayea, ping18:58
JED3nathany: i'm at my desk, just ping me whenever you two want to meet19:04
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nathanyJED3, ok, thanks, in a mtg with mlinksva19:06
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paroneayeanathany: pong19:33
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nathanyparoneayea, do you remember when you arrive in SF next week?20:07
paroneayeanathany: hm, yep: 12:40pm this sunday20:08
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paroneayeanathany, JED3: judging by your comments on here, assuming we are doing a check-in or something of some sort?20:19
* paroneayea wonders if he missed an email20:19
akozakFinally, my excessive coffee consumption justified: http://www.boingboing.net/2009/12/08/coffee-consumption-a.html20:20
paroneayea(happy to do a checkin, just wondering if I missed some prior information)20:20
paroneayeaakozak: would love to see their overall fatality likeliness as in terms of blood pressure and other cardiovascular diseases though :)20:21
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akozakparoneayea, true.20:23
akozakalthough coffee makes me feel so good, i have a hard time seeing how it could be BAD for me...20:23
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paroneayeaI suspect that, for most humans, when consumed within moderation, coffee is a fairly neutral substance20:24
akozakthat's probably true for most psychoactive drugs though.20:25
akozaki had a professor at berkeley who would just go off on how most of the country are drug addicts and don't even realize it20:26
akozakbecause of coffee :)20:27
akozakI remember he brought in unroasted coffee beans for us to eat in a lecture hall of about 400 people20:27
paroneayeawhat do unroasted coffee beans taste like?20:30
akozaknot good.20:30
akozaknone of the tasty oils have been released, and it's really hard20:31
paroneayeahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee_Bean_Structure.svg wikimedia commons has a sweet "coffee bean structure" diagram20:31
paroneayeathese things were always my favorite parts of gradeschool/highschool science textbooks20:32
paroneayeaI guess college level too20:32
paroneayeamy memory is mostly from gradeschool/highschool though, staring into their perfectly chiseled depths while my teacher said things I probably should have paid attention to20:32
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nathanyparoneayea, JED3, nkinkade: i actually have to head out shortly after 1 for an appt; can you email me checkins?20:55
nathanywe'll have plenty of face time next week20:55
paroneayeanathany: sure!20:55
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akozakOuch: http://techdirt.com/articles/20091207/1559557238.shtml21:32
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JED3ugh, those N900 ad's are so annoying21:34
JED3all over boingboing as well21:34
akozakheh yea21:34
JED3they just scream "hey look what you can't have" to me21:35
akozaki bet if you loaded these pages in the N900 your browsing would slow to a crawl because of the ads :)21:35
JED3heh ask paroneayea to investigate21:35
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akozakwhat? paroneayea has one?21:36
JED3i thought he did?21:36
paroneayeaI have one21:36
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paroneayeawhere are the ads?21:36
paroneayeaflashblock hid them21:36
JED3i just installed chrome an hour or ago and just clicked "set as default browser" a moment ago21:37
akozakthat good?21:37
JED3not sure if its a long term commitment yet :)21:37
JED3ehh, yeah i hate to admit, but its pretty good21:38
akozakff extensions work, right? so you can still use firebug?21:38
paroneayeaI have considered running chromium but I am not sure how i could live without all my firefox extensions21:38
paroneayeaoh they do?21:38
JED3no i dont think FF extensions work?21:38
akozakmaybe not21:38
paroneayeathat's surprising21:38
akozaki guess i don't know how that makes sense at all or where i heard that21:39
JED3there are "over 300 google extensions!" though21:39
akozakover 300?!21:39
paroneayeahow many of those extensions are firebug21:39
JED3yeah! can you even wrap your brain around that insane number?21:39
paroneayeaif the answer is "none" I am not sure how I can use it21:39
JED3hah same here21:40
akozaki sort of thought i'd start using ubiquity when i installed it, but so far I've used it once maybe21:40
JED3yeah I was talking to nathan about that at lunch21:41
JED3those lab projects, for even the people that *should* be the most interested, hardly ever land a conenction with21:41
paroneayeahonestly, there are only two firefox extensions I use extensively:21:42
paroneayea - firebug21:42
paroneayea - viewsourcewith21:42
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paroneayeaviewsourcewith makes me not hate editing wikis.... right click textbox, view source with emacsclient, edit edit21:42
JED3paroneayea: me too, but appending mouse gestures to the list for me, which is lame i know21:42
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akozakJED3, I know some people at umich are interested in using Bespin21:43
JED3oh yeah? for programimng education?21:44
akozakno for development21:44
paroneayeaI am kind of surprised that they are starting to push ads for the n900 like that on boingboing and etc21:45
paroneayeaconsidering that plenty of people I know are still waiting for theirs to ship who ordered a few weeks ago21:45
paroneayeaI guess that preorder-wait is finally coming to a close though21:45
JED3http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2009/12/07/streaming-11-am-cto-chopra-and-cio-kundra-launch-open-government-plan anyone know where a recording of this may be?21:45
akozakparoneayea, would you recommend it?21:45
paroneayeaakozak: I wrote up some early thoughts here: http://dustycloud.org/blog/view_post/n900/21:46
paroneayeaoverall I am pretty pleased21:46
JED3ahh found it: http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2009/12/08/promoting-transparency-government21:46
paroneayeait's very hackable, although there are some completely stupid proprietary bits21:46
paroneayeathe "Mer" project looks to alleviate that somewhat though and talking on the mailing lists they're being very cooperative on helping to identify what's proprietary and why21:47
paroneayeaoverall, having root access and being able to apt-get install python on your phone is awesome21:47
paroneayeaand the ui is fantastic21:47
paroneayeamorgan (my partner) also has one, and she's a non-hacker, and she loves it21:47
paroneayeamain issues are: some bits are still proprietary, and it is expensive.21:48
akozakit's the expensive bit that gets me.21:48
paroneayeaheh... the price on amazon currently is > 200 more than it was a couple of weeks ago.21:49
paroneayeaI bought mine for $550 USD21:49
paroneayeain-store at nokia though, I canceled on amazon because they wouldn't give a pre-order date at the time21:49
paroneayeaanyway, yeah.  Awesome, hackable device.. not cheap though :P21:51
akozakyou can tether with it right?21:52
JED3http://dpaste.com/130948/plain/ nearly half the people who take a photo that reaches the popularity of Flickr's featured photo go back and remove the CC license from the photo21:53
paroneayeathat's depressing21:55
nkinkadeForget about the OpenMoko for now.  I ate to be saying that, but I think it's the reasonable thing.21:56
nkinkadeMine is in a drawer ... the software is *almost* there but the problem is that it took the software 2+ years to get to where it is and now the hardware is hopelessly outdated.21:57
nkinkadeAnd the mail lists are still full of bug reports, problems, crashes, missed calls.21:57
nkinkadeTo make it worse, there is a horrendous hardware bug which has a workaround, but you have to send your phone off to have it fixed.21:58
nkinkadeThere were two actually, and I've already shipped my phone off one for one of the fixes.21:58
akozakHeh, yea, we've come a long way in 2 years.21:58
paroneayeawhen I bought my openmoko 1973 I told morgan, "I don't expect this to work"21:59
paroneayea"I am investing in the possible future of free phones"21:59
paroneayeaand I think that's true at least... I think the openmoko at least showed interest in a free phone at the very least to nokia and intel... the ofono stack they're building is d-bus based and in their presentation pdfs they indicate that they looked at the freesmartphone.org api22:00
paroneayeaheh, looks like amazon is charging 799 for the n900 because they can... still going for 569 on the nokia online store22:01
paroneayeabut their online store is absolute shit22:01
JED3akozak: yeah the actual licenses of the photos are fairly distributed with the majority (4) being BY22:02
nkinkadeThe openmoko-community is still active (maybe 20-30 msgs/day), but it used to me *much* busier.  I have noticed a steady decline in posts for months now.22:04
paroneayeankinkade: well, issue is that nobody is *joining* the community... some people are still active and motivated, but there are some people leaving but nobody joining22:05
nkinkadeI think people may be realizing that while the OpenMoko was pivotal in some ways, that the current hardware makes it not work pursuing too much anymore.   SHR has come a long way, and it's looking quite nice, but at the end of the day you can't get around that glamo graphics chip.22:05
nkinkadeOr the lack of a decent keyboard.22:06
paroneayeankinkade: yeah, sum is that if the openmoko community doesn't want to die, somoene needs to release a new device.22:06
nkinkadeAnd finally, but not least, GPRS!22:06
nkinkadeparoneayea: I think you're right.22:07
nkinkadeAt intervals I used my Freerunner as a daily phone, but each time I got fed up with missing calls, not being able to hear the other person, crashes, the lack of a mobile browser that was worth damn, etc. and would go back to my regular phone.22:08
nkinkadeI can say that there was a time when I thought: I can live with GPRS for quick things.  Not so.  GPRS sucks the big D, and I don't mean Dallas.22:08
paroneayeasucks the big deleware22:09
nkinkadeThe N900 looks pretty neat from your article, but damn, $600+?22:09
nkinkadeparoneayea: Safe to assume that at that cost it's unlocked?22:10
paroneayea< 600 if you buy from nokia's store directly, online or offline22:10
paroneayeaall models currently are unlocked22:10
akozakI wish I could get it, but I can barely afford food since I just started paying back my student loans :(22:10
nkinkadeHave you encountered any bugs yet?22:10
paroneayeawell, the gps kind of sucks sometimes.  Usabiltiy-wise, that's about it22:11
paroneayeamain bugs are "there are a lot of nonfree blobs and there isn't a free software bootloader"22:11
JED3paroneayea: carrier is?22:11
paroneayeaJED3: I'm using t-mobile but should work w/ any GSM carrier (I don't really know much about cell phone stuffs, but I stuck my sim card it, and a bar appeared that said "3G" :P)22:12
nkinkadeparoneayea: What is the browser?22:12
paroneayeankinkade: mozilla fennec! :D22:12
JED3very cool22:12
nkinkadeAre you serious?  I didn't think it was released yet?22:12
nkinkadeImpressions of Fennec?22:12
nkinkadeI had it running on my Freerunner once, but it was too buggy and slow on that hardware to get a good idea.22:13
paroneayeahm, I think it's fennec anyway.. they keep saying it's "mozilla-based"22:13
paroneayeaif it isn't fennec, at the very least it's very nice22:13
paroneayeait's snappy, you can zoom in-out with spiral mouse gestures22:13
paroneayeaand with maemo 5 if you slide across the screen from left to right a little cursor appears22:13
paroneayeaand you can click it and use it like a normal mouse22:14
nkinkadeNice.  Well, the phone sure does look pretty.22:14
nkinkadeI'll have to take a look at yours next week.22:15
nkinkadeOne of the main reasons I'd like to have a device like that is for SSH access to the CC servers and mypeer1.com for when a server problem crops up when I'm not at home.22:16
JED3nkinkade: can't you do that on android devices?22:16
nkinkadeJED3: Yeah.22:16
nkinkadeBut being donewith.google, I can't bear the though of having an Android device.22:16
JED3haha, oh yeah, forgot that critical detail22:17
paroneayeaI hope the droid isn't the future of android... there are no unlocked/developer versions yet :\22:17
paroneayeaat least with the g1 you could buy a version that gave you root access22:18
JED3paroneayea: thanks verizon22:18
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JED3paroneayea: https://staging.creativecommons.net/c/AZq6l/22:21
JED3wheres your rdfa? ;)22:22
paroneayeaJED3: nice!22:22
paroneayeathat means you're examining my terrible site D:22:22
paroneayeayeah okay so the deal is about my site22:22
akozakits a livejournal?22:22
paroneayeatwo years ago I was like, "This is going to be the future of all my creative endeavors"22:23
paroneayeaand I half-assed programmed a blog and a bunch of other things22:23
paroneayeaand was like, "I will finish these later"22:23
paroneayeawhich I have not done22:23
paroneayeaso rdfa is still on that list of "things I really should do but haven't"22:23
JED3haha no worries22:23
* JED3 never finished his site and has no room to talk22:24
JED3quite literally22:24
akozaki deactivated mine because it wasn't worth the daily 5 cent database charge22:24
paroneayeawell I have my site hosted on linode... and I gotta say, *that* much is awesome22:25
JED3linode eh?22:26
paroneayeaalso run an xmpp server and my own mail server and everything on there.22:26
paroneayeayeah I used to be on webfaction but I always felt like i was in a straitjacket on there22:26
JED3yeah i'm on webfaction now22:26
JED3and agree with that statement22:27
paroneayeamain issue with linode is if you take their smallest plan (which I have) your memory cap is pretty tiny if you're running multiple sites, a mail server, an xmpp server, and some other stuff22:27
akozakI use NearlyFreeSpeech but admittedly don't use it for anything beyond a cms22:27
akozakvery cheap though22:28
JED3i have a webfaction account with 120MB memory usage, and am consistently topping around 220MB22:28
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JED3they'll kill a process every other month, but overall they are really laid back about my overusage22:29
paroneayeaMy linode server has 360mb memory free22:29
paroneayeanot free :)22:29
paroneayea360mb allowed22:29
paroneayeayou know what really pisses me off though?  site 5 and dreamhost and companies like that22:30
paroneayeawhich promise "unlimited!" bandwidth/disk/etc22:30
paroneayeawhere they really mean:22:30
paroneayea"we won't tell you when we will cap you and disconnect you and force you to move to a more expensive server"22:30
JED3you only pay 7 dollars more than I do :/22:31
JED3i think 7 bucks might be worth root access22:31
paroneayea7 dollars of freedom and root access :)22:31
paroneayeaand apt-get22:31
paroneayeaand no port negotiation22:31
JED3do you have xen access?22:32
JED3say if you bought multiple vpn accounts22:32
JED3can you communicate to your other vm's through xen?22:32
paroneayeathere is some web interface where you can modify allocations22:32
paroneayeaoh hm22:32
paroneayeaI don't know about that.22:32
paroneayeaI don't know much about xen.22:32
paroneayeaI just have one instance running22:32
JED3ahh okay22:33
JED3while on the topic, I see Media Temple badges and love everywhere, are those just happy customers or do they provide free hosting often?22:34
nkinkadeJED3:  I have all my personal stuff on a Linode as well.  It's well worth the $20/mo to have all the things that paroneayea said.  The resources are somewhat limited, like he says, but I haven't had a problem yet, not for the relatively simple stuff I do.22:35
JED3and no port limitiations?22:36
nkinkadeApache, ViewVC, gitweb, my own mail server (Postfix).22:36
nkinkadePort limitations?22:36
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paroneayeayeah, no port limitations on linode22:36
nkinkadeYou mean blocking 25 or somethign like that?22:36
paroneayeaand on a vps, you'll never need to beg for a free port to run svn off of22:37
nkinkadeNo, no blocks that I know of.  I also used to have a Dreamhost account, but realized that the little extra money a month was worth it to have root access, and apt ... as paroneayea said.22:37
paroneayeaor anything22:37
paroneayeawell I don't run svn any more, but when I did I always found that irritating22:37
nkinkadeCC's Asterisk install is running on a Linode.22:37
paroneayeankinkade: really?  awesome!22:37
paroneayeawell it seems to hold up pretty well22:38
paroneayeahow's the bandwidth usage22:38
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paroneayeafor asterisk22:38
nkinkadeGetting a custom kernel compiled and working in that Xen environment was a chore, but I finally got it.22:38
paroneayeaheh, I imagine so22:38
nkinkadeI don't think the bandwidth is an issue really.  I haven't checked but will tomorrow.22:38
nkinkadeI don't think it takes too too much for each virtual line (64kbps?)22:39
paroneayeayeah that's one thing I've never seen ever be an issue on my linode account22:39
nkinkadeMy main concern was for CPU and memory, but it seems to work well enough.22:39
paroneayeanobody looks at my site enough for me to ever cross the 1% mark of network usage :)22:39
nkinkadeMe either. :-)22:39
nkinkadeThe disc allotment is fairly small at 12GB, but I've still got 4G free, which for the things I do there I have problem.22:40
nkinkade* have NO problem, that is.22:40
nkinkadeI wholeheartedly recommend Linode.  My experience there over the past 9 or 10 months have been very good.22:40
nkinkadeThe instances are nearly indestructible because if everything goes to shit (and that happened on CC's linode getting that kernel going), you've always got Lish from which point you can restore/recover from just about anything.22:41
paroneayeayeah lish is nice.  Almost too nice.  I wonder what they're running for that, if it's some generic free software or something in-house22:45
JED3wow just noticed google's real time search22:45
JED3queried for "lish" and got tweets as the first results22:46
nkinkade(irony alert: that is playing on a Google site)22:50
JED3ha i love how cancelling the first 2 comments on that video are22:51
nkinkadeIt's sort of silly, but the concept of Googlezon is fairly reasonable.22:53
nkinkadeWell, not reasonable, but not unlikely.22:53
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JED3hahaha "Winston Smith" on the Google id card22:57
JED3that almost ruins this for me22:57
akozakmakes it so, so much better22:59
JED3sigh, using 1984 is such a trite association22:59
JED3however I did giggle when i saw that23:00
akozakGotta admit, I don't buy into google FUD23:00
akozakbut i don't think it's unreasonable to be cautious23:00
paroneayeahere's a fun mindgame:23:01
paroneayeaimagine google was sold to a company you don't like23:01
paroneayeaincluding all of your personal data and profiling23:01
akozaksure, but it's not like your data is secure anywhere anyway. subpoenas are quite powerful forces.23:02
paroneayeawhen you have one big central hub of information23:02
paroneayeait's much easier, and very tempting23:02
paroneayeato tap and control that central hub23:02
paroneayeahence, I am interested in decentralized services23:02
akozakI don't think that decentralization is a lasting solution.23:03
akozakThere will always be a google to centrilize the decentrilized23:03
akozakoops bad spelling23:03
nkinkadeI'm also on a major rant against Facebook.23:03
JED3nkinkade: with you there ;)23:04
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paroneayeaokay, yes, i also think there will always be a "big popular centralizer"23:04
nkinkadeThe reason being that when people upload their content there they are basically selling out their friend and family to the advertisers.23:04
JED3and partially on the stance against Google, but I do fear Google like I do the others23:04
paroneayeabut not resisting it?23:04
paroneayea"<akozak> I don't think that decentralization is a lasting solution."23:05
nkinkadeJED3: Who are the "others?"23:05
JED3namely Facebook and its associates23:05
paroneayeankinkade: I don't think people who go on facebook are "selling out" their family and associates because I don't think most people are educated of it as a thread23:06
paroneayeaer, threat23:06
nkinkadeMy issues with Facebook are less privacy related and more related to people being fine with obligating their friends and family to register with a mega advertising firm just to looks at some pictures.23:06
JED3Quicken is one I fear the most23:06
nkinkadeBecause let's face it, Facebook, is just a massive advertising/marketing firm.23:06
akozakIsn't resistance to targeted ads just resistance to commercialism though?23:06
akozakAnd resistance to advertising in general?23:07
paroneayeanot all advertisement is targeted based off of individualized profiling23:07
nkinkadeI'm will to accept that a good free service needs to make money somehow, I just don't like people presuming that I'll be fine with registering to see the stuff.23:07
paroneayeafor example, google's *original* adsense wasn't indiviually profiled23:07
akozakI mean all of the problems associated with FB are there in every major platform that uses behavioral tracking and user data23:07
paroneayeait was profiled off of the contents of the site itself23:07
paroneayeaakozak: yes, agreed there23:07
nkinkadeYeah, but with Google I can still use a lot of their services without need an account.23:08
nkinkadeThe two main ones that come to mind are Google Search and Maps.23:08
akozaknkinkade, they still track you btw :/23:08
nkinkadeakozak: I don't accept cookies from Google.23:08
nkinkadeOr any site.23:08
nkinkadeFor that matter.23:08
nkinkadeI accept cookies from about <10 sites.23:08
akozakhardcore! can't wait to meet you nkinkade! :)23:09
nkinkadeakozak: I use Google Apps for CC in a separate instance of Firefox running on a profile that accepts cookies.23:09
akozaknkinkade, can't they track your ip?23:09
akozakand then just associate the two after the fact?23:10
nkinkadeakozak: Perhaps, but I try my best.23:10
JED3ahh damn, I was hoping to hear "Tor"23:10
akozakme too23:10
akozakthat would be awesome23:10
nkinkadeJED3: Maybe I need to start using TOR.  I'll have to set it up on my Linode.23:10
JED3nkinkade: you should just use that machine as a proxy23:11
nkinkadeAnd as inconvenient as it is, in my Google Apps instance of Firefox, when I need to click on a link in an email or something, I right click, copy link address, and paste it into my my Firefox instance.23:11
paroneayeahaha, now that really *is* hardcore23:12
JED3nkinkade: I'm about to make your day then23:12
nkinkadeJED3: But the IP would be even more consistent then, because that machine has a static IP.23:12
paroneayeaalthough for now I just skip google apps23:12
JED3check out 3.6 release notes23:12
paroneayeaI have it all forward to my cwebber@dustycloud.org account23:12
JED3right click "open in other profile" option23:12
paroneayeaexcept for the google calendar :(23:12
paroneayeawhich I can't seem to avoid.23:12
nkinkadeJED3: You just did make my day!23:12
nkinkadeI was asking paulproteus some time back how hard it would be to write an addon that would let me do that!23:13
JED3I am almost certain that I read that the other day23:13
JED3don't hate me if i am wrong :)23:13
nkinkadeparoneayea: Yeah, but I want to keep a separation between my personal and work email.23:13
paroneayeankinkade: yeah I suppose that is valid23:13
paroneayeaI guess i feel like since I am sitting here stewing in my messy apartment all day anyway23:14
nkinkadeJED3: I won't hate you, but I'll be very disappointed in you and you'll have to work to gain my trust again.23:14
paroneayeamy work persona and outside of work persona are not much different23:14
* paulproteus waves23:14
paroneayeajust depends on what I'm working on at what scheduled hours23:14
JED3nkinkade: re: google and your linode, isn't it preferred that google is only able to make a single (albeit remote) association for you as a user and a machine, rather than you in several different locations (different wifi networks, home, etc)?23:14
nkinkadeYeah, I guess in a sense my work stuff melds with my daily life.  My CC laptop is basically my main/daily machine.23:14
akozakheya paulproteus!23:14
nkinkadepaulproteus: Hi.23:14
paulproteusHelp, I'm surrounded!23:15
nkinkadeJED3: I don't know.  If I don't accept cookies from Google how will they be able to associate things I view from IP to another?23:15
JED3but you do accept in the instance of FF that you allow right?23:16
nkinkadeJED3: Right.23:16
nkinkadeI guess I can see where you're coming from.23:16
nkinkadeHere's the solution: Only proxy my Google Apps instance of Firefox through TOR.23:17
nkinkadeI may try to set that up tonight.  I'll to learn more about TOR first.23:17
paroneayea|.aaaa..| ####23:18
paroneayea|aa@aaaa-##    "Help, I'm surrounded!"23:18
paroneayeaokay hm, that joke's not funny unless you've wasted a lot of time playing nethack, and probably not even then23:18
JED3yeah thatd work, but tor is so painfully slow23:18
paroneayeahow do i delete irc?????23:18
JED3if you're linode is public, google already knows that machine's you, especially when @nkinca.de emails get routing your way ;)23:19
paroneayeaif you want to use tor nicely just connect to an existing tor instance that is not you23:19
akozakthat is an awesome domain23:20
akozaki wonder if there's a .ak23:20
akozakerr uea23:21
nkinkadeI have to give credit to paulproteus for coming up with that one.23:21
nkinkadeAnd email nath@nkinka.de.  Hilarious.23:21
JED3whoa, tell me you have "nath" as your email user23:21
nkinkadeSadly, Yahoo!, Hotmail and some other provides seem to filter my mails a spam ... presumably for nothing more than the .de domain.23:22
nkinkadeBut it's worth it because I laugh at my email address every time I see it.23:22
JED3those damn dirty dane spamming everyone up23:23
akozakwrong domain, that's .dk23:24
JED3ahh, dang23:24
nkinkadeIt's hilarious too because my Dspam instance filters a lot of spam in German.23:25
nkinkadeDspam is great, by the way.23:26
paroneayeapaulproteus: speaking of which, how goes geociti.es?23:26
nkinkadeSpam hardly *ever* makes it into my inbox.  I know freely publish and paste my email address unadulterated anywhere I want.23:26
paroneayeankinkade: dspam looks really neat23:26
paroneayeamaybe I should start using it23:27
nkinkadeparoneayea: I highly recommend it.  paulproteus was the one who pointed me toward it a while back.23:27
nkinkadepaulproteus has recommended many good things to me over the past few years.23:27
paroneayeamade a todo note23:28
paroneayeayeah I'm getting tired of spamassassin23:28
* paulproteus blushes.23:28
paroneayeaalso I run it on my local machine instead of on my server23:28
paroneayeaand I am thinking server-side filtering probably makes more sense?23:28
nkinkadeparoneayea: It took me a while to figure out how to get Dspam configured.  If you have any question I can give you a hand.23:28
paroneayeankinkade: greatly appreciated!23:28
paroneayeankinkade: oh speaking of configuring things, my friend recently said that "configuration-wise, asterisk seems like the new sendmail"23:29
paroneayeawould you agree? :)23:29
nkinkadeparoneayea: I have only had to poke around in 2 config files, thankfully, because it does get pretty involved.23:29
nkinkadeBut the default install on Debian seems to have some good defaults.23:29
nkinkadeMaybe Asterisk is the new Squid in terms of configuration .. that's another good analogy.23:30
nkinkadeBut I do appreciate plain text config files with loads of comments, and unlike Squid, the Asterisk config files are broken out.23:31
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* paroneayea is puzzled23:39
paroneayea          <input TYPE="submit" value="Select a License" i18n:attributes="value license.Select_a_License;">23:39
paroneayea      </form>23:39
paroneayeathat's not valid xml/xhtml... how did zpt allow this previously?23:40
paroneayeaI thought zpt awas strict about this stuff23:40
JED3nkinkade: I was wrong :(23:48
nkinkadeJED3: About what?23:48
JED3what i had remembered seeing was http://br.mozdev.org/multifox/23:48
JED3did not read far enough in to release that isn't what you want23:48
nkinkadeJED3: I don't know if we can be friends anymore, even though we'll be forced to work with one another.23:50
JED3this might be a candidate for extending into what you want https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/37923:51
nkinkadeBut that plugin is *almost* what I want.  I wonder if it could be modified to do what I want.23:51
JED3nkinkade: yeah i dont know, i tried to imagine how to get that to work, but couldnt23:51
nkinkadeJED3: I had found that Open Link In addon back when I was looking into this stuff.23:51
nkinkadeI've got sort of used to Copy Link Location and pasting.23:52
JED3oh you know what might work?23:52
nkinkadeIt's not too too much of an inconvenience, and I've got quick at doing it from practice.23:52
JED3running Gmail in a Prism instance23:53
JED3or whatever google app for that matter23:53
nkinkadeI'm not familiar with Prism.23:54
nkinkadeBut this is starting to get complicated. haha23:54
JED3haha yeah, but now I'm interested in this for my own use!23:54
nkinkadeKids these days ... don't want to do anything by hand anymore.23:54
nkinkadeLet me check that out.23:55
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nkinkadeJED3: How will Prism do what we want?  Maybe I didn't read far enough.  Sort of seems like tabs split out into their own window and that appear to the OS as a normal app.23:57

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