Thursday, 2009-09-17

mralexnkinkade: i'm reviewing the oneclick/pcp stuff... is oneclick ready to go on, just waiting for my JS?00:01
mralexor are we zupport bound right now00:01
nkinkademralex:  I think so, but let me be sure about that tomorrow.00:02
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jibotpyrak is Parker Phinney and and a sophomore at Dartmouth and a former CC tech intern00:37
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jibotpyrak is Parker Phinney and and a sophomore at Dartmouth and a former CC tech intern02:04
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jibotJoiIto is blogging at and the CEO of Creative Commons04:28
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jibotJoiIto is blogging at and the CEO of Creative Commons09:14
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jibotJoiIto is blogging at and the CEO of Creative Commons10:10
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* paulproteus waves15:18
paulproteusIt looks like WebFaction is actually a really good deal.15:18
paroneayeaI used webfaction for a while, and then left for linode15:18
paroneayeathey are nice, as far as shared hosting goes, but... you still don't have much control at all15:19
paulproteusInteresting, I'm thinking of leaving linode for them.15:19
paroneayeaie, what if you need to run a jabber server, or something?  you need to file a ticket to get a port opened for you15:19
paulproteusAt least, moving the web app there, and leaving some other more shell-type things on the linode.15:19
paroneayeainstalling any web framework that's not through their web interface (which tends to have rather outdated stuff) is usually pretty difficult15:20
paroneayeaanyway, that's how I felt15:20
paroneayeawhat's your reason for considering a switch?15:20
paroneayeaas in, bandwidth, disk, memory?15:21
paulproteusMaybe I'll just try it.15:21
paulproteusBut memory, primarily, is what I'm running into on the linode.15:21
paulproteusPlus I don't want to fiddle with web server configuration files anymore.15:22
paulproteusIf they can handle /static/ => nginx, great, I don't want to.15:22
paulproteusI'm considering moving up to a dedicated box instead, but I know I don't need that right now.15:22
paroneayeayeah, memory is definitely the biggest crunch on a virtual box15:23
paulproteusPlus they (claim to) do backups.15:24
paroneayeaheh, yeah I'm not backing up my linode currently :\15:24
paroneayeathat is a bit nervewracking15:25
paroneayeaI should really just set up an rsync cronjob or something I guess15:25
paulproteusDirvish is pretty nice.15:26
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nkinkadeDirvish does work well, and I backup my linode to  ;-)16:21
nkinkade(using Dirvish)16:22
paulproteusFor some reason I seem to end up with rsync deadlocks when I use dirvish lately to back up *from* rose.16:22
paulproteusI find it very confusing.16:22
nkinkadeHmm.  Fortunately, my linode only has a few gigabytes total, and it doesn't change very often, so the nightly dirvish backup probably transfer very little data.16:25
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jibotakozak is Alex Kozak, Program Assistant at ccLearn and SFC@Berkeley co-founder and a norse god16:43
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nathanynkinkade: did you move the QB files for Ted to the server?16:50
nkinkadenathany: Yeah.16:50
nathanywhat's the IP of that again?16:50
nkinkadeAnd it backups up each night to a9.16:50
nkinkadeAnd I think it may be down.16:50
nathanyhis shortcut is giving an error, just going to log in and see if it crashed or something16:51
nkinkadeIt's funny you should write, because not 15 seconds I ago I tried to SSH to the machine and got a "no route to host error"16:51
nathanynot responding to pings16:51
nathanyyeah, i'll reboot16:51
nkinkadeI was just about to write you to ask you to take a look.16:51
nkinkadeI had noticed that I didn't get the summary of the day's backups or a Logwatch report, so I was checking on it.16:52
nathanyi just rebooted16:53
nkinkadeI don't know why this happens every couple months, but it does.16:54
nathanyyeah, i just added another item to my task list to look @ replacing that16:55
nkinkadeInteresting, the last message in kern.log.0 is from Sept. 9, and the first message from kern.log is from today.16:56
nkinkadeMaybe the kernel was mysteriously quiet for more than a week.16:56
nkinkadeI know it was still doing backups.16:56
nkinkadeJust seems strange.16:56
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jibotmlinksva is from Creative Commons and Mike Linksvayer17:00
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AlexandreMBMO que é uma GPL-CC?17:27
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nkinkadeAlexandreMBM: Por casualidad hablas inglés o español?17:30
AlexandreMBMnkinkade, yes, english...17:30
nathanyAlexandreMBM: Um wrapper em torno do GPL 2 normais. Não houve diferença legal. (via
nathanyAlexandreMBM: it's a wrapper around the GPL 217:30
nkinkadeGood, english is better for me. :-)17:31
nathanyno legal difference, just a deed + metadata for it17:31
AlexandreMBMnkinkade, "What is a GPL-CC?"17:31
nkinkadeAlexandreMBM: As nathany was saying, it's not actually a new license.17:32
nkinkadeCC has just created a simplified document that describes in plain terms what the GPL permits, prohibits and requires.17:32
AlexandreMBMnkinkade, why it to exists?17:32
AlexandreMBMnkinkade, ah! that page in colors...17:33
nkinkadeLicenses are complicated legal documents that not that many people take the time to read.17:33
AlexandreMBMnkinkade, my english is poor17:33
nkinkadeFrequently people don't really understand what a license does.17:33
nkinkadePodemos en español, si es más facil.17:33
AlexandreMBMnkinkade, no17:34
nkinkadeSo CC created a document that describes in simple terms what the GPL requires.17:34
AlexandreMBMnkinkade, I understand17:34
nkinkadeAlexandreMBM: The idea is this.  If publish something under the GPL and include the full text to the GPL or a link to it ... how many people are really going to read every word and truly understand the license?17:35
nkinkadeProbably not that many.17:35
JED3nkinkade: was RDF a reason for the cc-gpl as well?17:35
nkinkadeJED3: I'm not aware that they are related.17:35
nathanyJED3: nkinkade: yes, we built a metadata model as well (RDF)17:36
nathanyFSF is now hosting their own RDF17:36
nkinkadeAlexandreMBM: So instead someone can link to the CC-GPL, which explains in clear terms what it means ... from there, if the person wants to read the full GPL license they can.17:36
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jibotpyrak is Parker Phinney and and a sophomore at Dartmouth and a former CC tech intern17:49
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greg-gakozak: so, there is this resource on that is a disertation (Open Educational Resources: Motivations, Governance, and Content Protection), it is hosted on the servers yet it is All Rights Reserved. Just letting you know :)17:57
greg-gakozak: also, the formating of this pdf is a bit, um, non-optimal:   :)18:00
akozakthanks greg-g :)18:01
akozakdid you ever get any emails about that resources page?18:01
akozakwe were looking to convert it to SMW18:01
greg-gI havne't, and that is a very good idea18:03
akozakok i'll get back to you on that18:04
greg-gafter we fix these stupid mediawiki issues here at Open.Michigan I'm going to try and get SMW installed for us, using a 'normal' wiki is a little restrictive18:04
akozakI can imagine18:04
greg-gand by trying to get it installed I mean repeatedly poking and prodding the sys admin(s)18:05
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jibotjgay is
paroneayeanathany: ./bin/jurisdiction add --lang=es_PR --uri= pr18:23
nathanyparoneayea: yes18:24
paroneayeathis is what you have in your doc, but the current process is more like:18:24
paroneayea./bin/jurisdiction --add --lang=es_PR --uri= pr18:24
paroneayeawith --add instead of add18:24
paroneayeado you care if it remains like that?18:24
nathanyparoneayea: i do not18:24
paroneayeawould be less coding to keep things that18:24
nathanyconsider it a typo :)18:24
paroneayeagreat :)18:24
nathanyparoneayea: btw, have you used argparse?18:24
paroneayeanathany: nope, but I saw the pycon lightning talk on it18:25
paroneayeait looked slick18:25
nathanyit's not in the stdlib but i used it recently and liked some of its features18:25
nathanyit might be worth doing a little re-tooling, esp since right now we use optparse to get positional arguments (when the docs indicate it's clearly not a fan of them :) )18:25
paroneayeawell if you're giving me an excuse to play with argparse... :)18:26
nathanyi am18:26
paroneayeagreat.  I'll take a look at that then.18:26
nkinkadeakozak: Where did you migrate the opened_scripts stuff to?18:44
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JED3mralex: snow leopard, is it worth it?18:47
mralexJED3: yes, i certainly enjoy the improved performance on my machines18:47
nkinkadeakozak: Nevermind, I found it in the ahab skin.  I had just forgot.18:48
akozaknkinkade: its in the ahab theme now, a6:/var/www/
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jibotpyrak is Parker Phinney and and a sophomore at Dartmouth and a former CC tech intern18:48
JED3okay, mralex how painful would it be to reformat then install?18:49
JED3or rather, what will mac leave untouched during an upgradE?18:49
nkinkadenathany: Do you think it's worthwhile for the one-click script to check referrer?  At first it seemed like a modest little attempt to hinder abuse of the script, but I'm wondering if it'll just hinder us in some way???18:53
nkinkademralex: ^^18:53
nathanynkinkade: is there some abuse you envision?18:54
nathanyseems like the effect of the abuse is to give us money :)18:54
nkinkadeIt currently does check referrer.  I thought it might hinder the widget from using the script, but would we want the widget to pass the user to /donate so they can look at a premium and newsletters?18:54
nkinkadenathany: You make a good point.18:54
mralexnkinkade: does it check for valid query strings?18:54
nkinkadeI wasn't sure what abuse I envisioned.18:54
nkinkademralex: It does some basic validation on the input, but nothing too stringent.18:55
nathanynkinkade: i suspect we'd want the widget to drop @ /donate with the amount filled in... thoughts?18:55
nkinkadeI imagine the widget would be about like a PCP in that regard.18:55
mralexnkinkade: related; i'm going to aim to get my JS stuff up on zupport/donate this afternoon18:55
nkinkademralex: Cool.  In response to your question last night about whether this stuff was ready on production .. it is.18:56
nkinkadeOnce we have a suitable page on zupport that you feel comfortable with, I'll push the thing live.  Does that sound okay with you?18:56
mralexsounds good18:56
nkinkademralex: It would probably be a good idea for you to take a peek at the code of the OneClickDonation.php script to see if anything looks wrong to you .. mostly in terms of improper input validation.19:00
nkinkadeIt already checks for egregious errors, but really there isn't much the script can do in the event of something really bad, except to just redirect the user to some other place, like maybe /donate19:00
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nkinkadenathany: JED3: I think I'm going to recommend that we reflash the WRT54GL router in the office.20:04
nkinkadeIt's been acting up lately, and besides there is a newer version of OpenWRT.20:05
nkinkadeI'm trying to get openvpn installed on it, but when I run openvpn I get nothing more than "Bus error"20:05
nkinkadeand the kernel log buffer is filled with ip_conntrack messages like:20:06
nkinkadeip_conntrack: table full, dropping packet.20:06
nkinkadeSomething is not normal, and I was seeing some strange stuff a couple weeks ago ... more "Bus error" stuff, but related to a diff. program ... at that time JED3 rebooted the router for me.20:06
nkinkadeI think we're better off at this point just reflashing, and with the lastest firmware.20:07
nkinkadeIt's currently got Kamikaze 7.07, but 8.09 (at least) is available.20:07
nathanynkinkade: great; the network has seemed slow lately20:09
nkinkadeI don't doubt it.20:10
nkinkadeI don't know what's causing those ip_conntrack errors, but the result can't be anything good.20:10
nkinkadeI can only imagine that it's wreaking havoc on the internal network ... lots of TCP retransmissions.20:10
nkinkadenathany: Do you think you might be able to reflash the device one of these days soon?20:11
nathanynkinkade: if you point me to sane instructions :)20:11
nkinkadeI'm going to take a walk around the block, but when I get back I'll point you to some good instructions that should be pretty simple.20:12
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paroneayeaokay so I'm pretty confused20:26
paroneayeain *both* license.rdf versions, git and svn20:26
paroneayea./bin/jurisdiction --add xx20:26
paroneayeayou'd think it would add one section20:26
paroneayeabut it seems to change the whole document up?20:26
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nathanyparoneayea: "whole document"?20:27
nathanyright... the "problem" with RDF is that there are many ways to serialize it20:28
akozaknkinkade: any thoughts re: dd-wrt vs. openwrt?20:28
nathanyie, order doesn't matter20:28
nathanyso it's possible when we read the graph into memory, twiddle, and re-serialize, it's a different serialization20:28
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paroneayeathat seems unfortunate20:28
nathanyi suppose20:29
nathanyit's a "feature" :)20:29
nathanyyou could easily write a validation function that takes two graphs and returns the delta (if you wanted to, say, for testing)20:29
paroneayeaI thought the version in git was broken and I was trying to figure out why20:30
paroneayeabut nope, should have tried it in svn sooner20:30
paroneayeawell okay20:30
paroneayeait doesn't make for as clean of a revision control history anyway :)20:30
nathanyparoneayea: it might be worth looking at the rdf library docs and see what the serializer configuration options are20:31
nathanymaybe there's one that's slightly slower but order preserving20:31
nathanyi agree that the messy version history is annoying20:31
nkinkadeakozak: I don't have any input on the DD-WRT vs OpenWRT thing.20:36
nkinkadeWe installed OpenWRT on the CC router over 2 years ago and that was the first time I ever used it.  Now I have it on my own router.20:37
akozakJust curious if you had strong feelings about it :)  I've been using DD-WRT for my routers.20:37
nkinkadeI just use it because it seems to work and do what I need.20:37
nkinkadenathany: Since we've already got OpenWRT installed I can actually do the flash from here.20:42
akozaknkinkade: Couple things... I'm going to be helping Michelle tomorrow with a batch move of most case studies page to a subpage of Case Studies.  Is there any way you could update SMW from 1.4.2 to 1.4.3 so that Special:ExportRDF works for categories, and do I have enough permissions to run a mediawiki maintenance script on a7?20:46
nkinkadeakozak: will the old case study page URLs become invalid.20:46
akozaknkinkade: I don't think so, just turn into redirects/20:47
akozakI'm pretty sure that's how moveBatch.php works20:47
akozakI don't nec. need permissions20:47
akozakI could just give you the page list txt20:48
akozakand the command to run it20:48
nathanynkinkade: awesome20:49
nkinkadenathany: I just don't know if it will reboot itself or if it'll require manual intervention.20:50
nkinkadeIt'd be best if someone was there.20:50
nathanynkinkade: makes sense20:50
nkinkadeDon't know when would be the most convenient time to do it.20:50
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nkinkadeakozak: I upgraded SMW on the CC Wiki to 1.4.320:58
nkinkadeAnd you should have permissions to run any maintenance script20:59
akozaknkinkade: thanks!21:00
nkinkadenathany: Any thoughts on a time for the upgrade to the router?21:01
akozakI'm really nervous about this batch move. Is there anything I can do to make it safer?21:01
nkinkadeAny time works for me, basically, as long as someone is around to pick up the pieces if it goes to shit.21:01
akozakdo it now! net is so slow21:01
nkinkadeakozak: Don't worry.  We'll just backup the database prior to the upgrade.  If it falls to pieces we'll restore the backup.21:02
akozaknkinkade: you're talking about the wiki and not the router right?21:02
nkinkadeakozak: I'm talking about the wiki changes.21:03
akozakok, then i'll let you know before I run anything21:03
akozaknkinkade: one other thing... I need the limit of the RDF dumped by the Special:ExportRDF page changed, which is hardcoded into the script that does it.21:04
akozakIf I don't have permissions, that is... let me check21:04
akozak(permissions to change it myself)21:04
nkinkadeakozak: You may not. I think it's all owned by me. :-)21:05
akozakok, let me find where that limit is set21:05
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nathanynkinkade: monday AM?21:09
nathanytomorrow is busy for me21:09
akozaknkinkade: line 696 of a7:/var/www/, change to = 500.21:09
nathanyakozak: yes, you can make it safer; don't ;)21:09
nathany(just kidding)21:09
akozaknathany: must be done!21:10
akozakyou could always take over this project :)21:10
nkinkadenathany: Monday is fine.  I expect that it'll be an operation of about 2 or 3 minutes.21:10
nathanyakozak: "must" ?21:10
nathanyi suspect that's a lie21:10
nathanynkinkade: sounds good21:10
akozakwell I mean not in the metaphysical sense21:10
akozakmust in that the great mlinksva recommended it21:11
akozakwhich is pretty close to metaphysical necessity21:11
nathanygot it21:15
nathanynkinkade: I'll trust you to put the upgrade on your calendar and ping me Monday AM :)21:15
nkinkadeakozak 100 is now 500.21:17
akozaknkinkade: Thanks! testing...21:17
nkinkadeHow's that for metaphysics?21:17
akozakhuzzah, worked21:17
akozakI suppose now I just have to trust that the RDF label property is the same as the page name21:18
akozakcan't imagine a case where it isn't though....21:18
paroneayeayep, so there's no way to preserve ordering with librdf21:44
nkinkademralex: Did ccSearch ever have some kind of favico?22:06
nkinkadeCould/should I just use the one from
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jibotpyrak is Parker Phinney and and a sophomore at Dartmouth and a former CC tech intern22:27
paroneayeanathany: ping22:56
nathanyparoneayea: pong22:56
paroneayeanathany: just to be clear I'm doing the right thing I think I'm supposed to be doing here :)22:59
nathanysure :)22:59
paroneayea - [ ] The jurisdiction code (pr in this example) is used to populate22:59
paroneayea       the translation string22:59
paroneayeahere you were talking about in questions.xml, correct?22:59
nathanyparoneayea: let me go look @ that document22:59
nathanyparoneayea: I was referring to using the jurisdiction code to populate the translation template for things like dc:title23:01
nathany is probably no help at all23:01
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nathanyparoneayea: i probably need to construct an example of what i'm thinking about23:02
nathanysince this will come up in the license stuff, too23:02
paroneayeaah okay23:03
paroneayeawell good thing I checked.23:03
nathanywrt questions.xml...23:03
nathanyhrm, yeah, i guess it needs to have the jurisdiction added there now that you mention that23:03
nathanybut it should only happen for launched jurisdictions23:03
nathany(does that make sense?)23:04
paroneayeauh, hm23:04
paroneayeanot yet :)23:04
paroneayealet me look23:04
nathanyparoneayea: there's a question for jurisdiction and an enum of values (the jurisdictions)23:05
nathanyso they'll need to be added there23:05
nathanyalthough maybe that should be handled during the "translation" step (
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paroneayeayes, makes sense now23:06
nathanygreat :)23:06
paroneayeahopefully anyway :)23:07
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nathanyparoneayea: i just pushed a change to license.rdf.git23:09
nathany(or pushing now)23:09
nathanyparoneayea:  see
paroneayeaah okay23:13
nathanyparoneayea: any clearer?23:13
paroneayeakinda :)23:13
paroneayeaso is that what will actually appear in there23:14
paroneayeaor is this placeholder for something smarter I should be substituting in :)23:14
paroneayeaand if that's what's supposed to be there, how do we expect to use this in the future?23:14
nathanyparoneayea: that's what will actually appear there23:14
paroneayeathat's pretty easy then23:14
nathanyparoneayea: we plan to use it with a new/updated tool described at
paroneayeaah okay23:15
paroneayeagot it.23:15
nathanythat will look for assertions where the language is "i18n" (which is just a special placeholder" and when it finds one, use the PO files to generate all the "actual" languages23:15
nathanycool :)23:15
paroneayeashoulda asked for clarification sooner instead of trying to be all smart about it23:16
nathanylol... np23:16
paroneayeamoral of the story kids: don't be smart23:16
nathanythis has been a great exercise for me to get things out of my head...23:16
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nathanyok, i need to run; email me if anything else comes up, otherwise i'll see you tomorrow23:16
paroneayeaokay, cool23:16
paroneayealater nathany23:16
nathanyttyl, paroneayea23:17
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