Wednesday, 2009-08-05

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paroneayeamorning mecredis_14:47
paroneayeaand everyone :)14:47
mecredis_woah just got an error on 503 Service Unavailable14:49
mecredis_Service Unavailable14:49
mecredis_Guru Meditation:14:49
mecredis_XID: 57141278514:49
mecredis_hrm seems to be back14:49
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mecredis_hrm wiki seems to be having issues when moving pages15:03
mecredis_Error 503 Service Unavailable15:05
mecredis_Service Unavailable15:05
mecredis_Guru Meditation:15:05
mecredis_XID: 57142419215:05
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mecredis_nkinkade: should I talk to you about an issue with the presentation SMW form on wiki?15:44
nkinkademecredis:  Sure.15:52
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mecredis_so the autocomplete on author15:59
mecredis_is on the pagenamespace15:59
mecredis_and it should be on the User: namespace15:59
mecredis_e.g. when I write Fred Benenson it doesn't work15:59
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mecredis_but if write User:Fred Benenson it does15:59
mecredis_the problem is that while the autocomplete works there15:59
mecredis_the presenter's name then becomes User:User:Fred Benenson15:59
mecredis_am I making sense?15:59
nkinkademecredis_: I think so.  I know very little about Sematic Forms, but I can take a look at that in a few minutes.16:02
mecredis_I think its more about Semantic Forms16:03
mecredis_more specifically this line:16:03
mecredis_{{#if:{{{presenter|}}}| {{#arraymap:{{{presenter}}}|,|x|[[Author::User:x| ]]| }}| }}16:03
mecredis_looks like nathany was the author16:04
mecredis_no biggie16:04
mecredis_I'll poke around with it later16:04
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mecredis_weird, moving pages on the wiki seems to be freaking it out16:17
mecredis_it just hangs and gives me a 503 error16:18
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nkinkademecredis_ mecredis: There seems to be some strange things happening on the wiki.  The same thing happens when pages are deleted: takes a long time and Varnish gives 503 errors.16:41
mecredis_cool, just so long as its on your radar16:41
mecredis_it just times out and seems to work16:42
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paroneayeankinkade: hey, thanks for responding to my email yesterday.  Looks like I forgot to reply17:24
paroneayeathat list helps17:24
nkinkadeNo problem.  Glad it was of some use.17:24
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paroneayeaSo reading this:
paroneayeait looks like ctypes errors are expected if you're running python2.517:56
paroneayeabut trying to get cc.engine working with python2.4 also gives me that error:17:56
paroneayeahm, it was trying to install it in my system python apparently.17:56
paroneayeaI think I might know how to resolve this17:59
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paroneayeagot things to run18:09
paroneayeagetting this error when trying to access /license/ though: TraversalError: (< object at 0xaab326c>, 'cc5')18:09
JED3hmm, let me look at something real quick18:10
JED3are you in the trunk?18:10
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JED3okay, well license/ should be an invalid path now, try "choose"18:12
paroneayea"System error occurred"... same error on the console18:12
paroneayeaTraversalError: (< object at 0xb6377ac>, 'cc5')18:13
JED3hmm, did you checkout all of the externals?18:15
JED3cc5 is from the ccwordpress repo18:16
JED3cc.engine/trunk/cc/engine/skin/resources/cc5 does that path exist?18:16
paroneayealemme see..18:18
pyrakshit, a8 is suuuper laggy right now18:19
pyrak(at least, my ssh session is)18:19
paroneayeaah, that's probably the problem18:19
paroneayeathat's right, I used git-svn for the checkout18:19
JED3yeah that wont resolve the externals18:19
paroneayeathis is why nathan made that deep-git-svn thingy eh18:19
paroneayeauh, hm.18:19
paroneayeawhere is that at again? :)18:19
paroneayeasweet, I'll give that a try18:20
JED3lemme know how it works, I have yet to try it out18:20
paroneayeaat least I think I understand zc.buildout mostly now18:20
paroneayeaI was trying to get it to work inside of virtualenv due to my virtualenv habits, but that turned out to be pretty silly I think :\18:21
JED3haha yeah18:21
JED3I'm not too impressed with the zc.buildout documentation, but its getting better18:22
paroneayeathey've got a nice screencast18:23
JED3yeah I hadn't seen that until yesterday when you mentioned it18:23
paroneayeaI like any walkthrough that uses command line tools and emacs instead of slides :)18:23
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JED3pyrak: a8 is slow for me as well18:43
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akozakBovinity: do we have any high-res versions of the OpenEd logo?18:59
akozakBovinity: so if it's not on there, we don't?19:00
Bovinityakozak: my bad, misread (cclearn/opened/). yes, i believe we have a vector, no, it's not on the downloads page.19:00
akozakBovinity: cool, do you know where to find it?19:01
Bovinityakozak: in your inbox19:03
akozakBovinity: thanks19:03
paroneayeaJED3: so, didn't get gsc working.  But now that I'm using straight-up subversion it's working :)19:06
JED3ha nice, what was the issue with gsc?19:06
paroneayeagit.errors.GitCommandError: "['git', 'svn', 'fetch', '-r', '11778'] returned exit status 1"19:07
paroneayeamaybe I'll investigate more later.  I found a couple of other bugs in gsc that are argument related that look like easy fixes19:07
paroneayeafor now I just gotta get to picking cc.engine apart19:08
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mecredis_akozak: around?19:25
mecredis_have a draft of my preso for tomorrow19:25
mecredis_I'd like to send you via pdf19:25
mecredis_gimme another 10 min19:25
akozakmecredis_: I'm here, send it over whenever19:31
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mecredis_gmail is being slow with attachments19:47
mecredis_k sent19:49
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paroneayeaJED3: so, I'm reading through cc.license.. I have some questions21:22
JED3ha okay21:22
JED3i'll do my best to answer them21:22
paroneayeawell, I'm curious first of all what the motivation for the interface-based design21:23
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JED3are you very familiar with Zope?21:26
paroneayeaMy work involving zope thus far has mostly been debugging zope 2 apps... I'm not sure how much of this is following paradigms common to zope21:26
paroneayeaat imaginary landscape I debugged legacy zope apps every now and then21:26
JED3well i'm not an expert, to any extent21:27
paroneayeazope 2 specifically21:27
JED3ohh okay, I believe the Interfaces is a convention within Zope3 development21:27
JED3and from what I recall its the only way of defining your objects* <-- unquotable21:28
paroneayeaso it wasn't as much an application design as it was a "this is how we fit things into the system" design?21:30
paroneayeathat was horribly phrased, apologies21:30
JED3haha, thats okay21:30
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paroneayeain other words, it's a zope app, and that's the zope way of doing things21:30
paroneayeazope 3, at least21:30
JED3is there a certain aspect of the interface design in licenses that confuses you?21:30
JED3yeah thats what i'm led to believe21:31
paroneayeanothing that confuses me specifically yet21:31
paroneayeajust want to understand design decisions21:31
JED3i'm sort of in the same boat as you are.  I haven't done much "from the ground up" devel in Zope, and have worked more on scalability and extending with new components21:32
paroneayeaheh, okay :)21:32
JED3paroneayea: the design decisions will be a tough thing to get your hands on :)21:32
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JED3i'm still puzzled on a bunch of different projects21:33
paroneayeait helps when its possible to understand that history though, I think21:33
JED3I agree21:34
JED3I find cc.license semi-obtuse21:34
nkinkadecc.license confuses me greatly.21:35
paroneayeaI remember that when I worked at imagescape there were a whole ton of decisions made by programmers that no longer worked there.  By the end of working there I came to understand the reasons for the design decisions, and I felt like if I had understood them sooner I would have been better able to help migrate things when we went from iscapaste to django.  I mean, things went well, but it could have been better21:35
paroneayeaheh, semi-obtuse is good phrasing :)21:35
JED3I've made good sense out of cc.engine just from time and experience but neither are clear21:35
Bovinityat least NY still works here ;)21:36
nkinkadeI've always wondered why it takes so much code, a major framework, and lots of complexity to accomplish a seemingly simple thing.21:36
JED3yes, paroneayea we don't have that problem yet21:36
nkinkadeI've always just figured that the task was deceptively complex.21:36
JED3most of the knowledge base is upstairs in NY21:36
paroneayeaBovinity, JED3: yeah, I'm very greatful of that21:36
JED3however there are still some confusing paulproteus artifacts lingering :)21:36
nkinkadeI trust that paulproteus is a good coder, but yeah, some of his solutions go right over my head ... probably on many levels.21:37
JED3me too, me too21:37
nkinkadeLike cc.engine, I always took it to mean that I just didn't know much about programming and problem solving.21:38
nkinkadeYou should see the code that sends out the CC Staff call emails and generates the wiki page.21:38
JED3where is that code btw?21:39
nkinkadeThere's is of it than you would think.21:39
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nkinkadeI don't think it's in any of our repositories.21:40
nkinkadeJED3: ^^21:41
nkinkadeThat's it.21:41
JED3ohh okay cool21:41
nkinkadeJED3: By the way, if you can figure out how to make it *not* do the breakout groups each week, that would be helpful. :-)21:43
JED3ha okay, I'm looking at it now21:43
JED3it failed the past 2 weeks right21:43
nkinkadeI gave a quick try the other day, but it broke it.21:43
paroneayeaassert 'Mike Linksvayer' in result21:44
nkinkadeWait, I thought it worked this week?21:44
paroneayeathat thing is gonna fail if our vp ever leaves, it looks like :)21:44
JED3paroneayea: haha21:44
nkinkadeYeah.  And a few weeks ago if failed because /about/people changed and the scraping he does didn't work.21:44
nkinkadeI managed to fix that one though.21:44
JED3oh wow, he scrapes the about page?21:44
nkinkadeBut a quick glance didn't tell me how to avoid the breakout groups.21:44
Bovinityit scrapes /about/people?21:45
JED3why not just get the users of teamspace?21:45
nkinkadeThere must be some way of getting current employees that is more reliable.21:45
nkinkadeDon't know what that is right now.21:45
JED3scraping is a way cooler solution though21:46
nkinkadeI'm sure that that is precisely what paulproteus was thinking and would say.21:46
JED3haha good, then we're on the same page21:46
paroneayeaso that's why I wasn't on the email21:46
nkinkadeAsheesh was/is a big fan of scraping.21:46
paroneayeaI'm not on /about/people/ yet21:46
nkinkadeI think he gave a presentation at PyCon or something about web scraping with Python.21:47
nkinkadeparoneayea: See Bovinity about that.21:47
Bovinityparoneayea: are you official now?21:47
JED3yeah, it received great reviews21:47
paroneayeaBovinity: yeah21:47
Bovinityparoneayea: plz send bio and photo, then apaprently you'll be on the staff call email too. heh.21:47
paroneayeaBovinity: cool, will do :)21:48
paroneayeankinkade: well, as part of the hiring process nathan and mike did a code review over the phone of a video scraping library I wrote while at the PCF21:49
paroneayeamaybe I got hired to be a replacement web scraper :)21:49
JED3ha, nice21:51
akozakparoneayea: have you worked with semantic mediawiki at all?21:54
akozakeventually I'm going to want to try and do data scraping with the data transfer extension21:55
JED3ha his session involved scraping the Curry menu21:56
JED3good stuff21:56
paroneayeaakozak: I haven't... admittedly, I've never really worked with mediawiki much other than as a user of existing deployments21:57
paroneayeathat sounds interesting though21:57
* pyrak just wrote a useful shell script!21:57
paroneayeaneat :)21:58
akozakyea, pretty cool21:58
akozakparoneayea: be warned, I might try to hijack some of your time once in a while21:59
akozakfeel free to ask nathany before helping me if I do21:59
akozakI have a few pet projects that I'd like a real programmer to look at, like connecting ODEPO ( with DiscoverEd (hgttp://
akozakthats the wrong link22:00
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akozaklink fail22:01
akozakok, im out early today, later all22:04
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paroneayeaand from what I recall its the only way of defining your objects* <-- unquotable22:05
paroneayeaby this do you mean like, sticking them in the ZODB?22:05
paroneayeaah ok22:05
JED3are you familiar with Django?22:05
paroneayeaJED3: yes, quite :)22:06
JED3ahh good good22:06
JED3there are 3 parts, pretty good writeup22:07
paroneayeaoh awesome22:07
paroneayeathx so much22:07
JED3no prob22:07
JED3to me he should have stretched part 2 out, thats the real meat of Zope devel confusion22:08
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pyrakpaulproteus, ping (with silly question):22:34
pyrakis that a hindi reference?22:35
pyrak(have i asked you this before?)22:36
pyraknkinkade, i should probably start X browser testing jswidget22:39
pyrakie: i need to stage somewhere22:39 is a reasonable choice?22:40
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nkinkadepyrak: I'm fine with that.22:48
nkinkadepyrak: Alternatively, why don't you just set it up at ~/public_html/jswidget-testing/?22:48
pyraknkinkade, you mean my local machine?22:55
nkinkadepyrak: I mean on whichever server you want and/or have an account on.22:56
pyraknkinkade, then what url will i use to query what i put there?22:58
pyrakit should also be noted that jswidget sometimes requires apache config tweaks to work22:58
nkinkadeLike that.  Anything you put in ~/public_html/ is accesible as /~<username/22:59
pyraknkinkade, do i need to restart apache or something?  just tried and it didn't work.22:59
nkinkadeMaybe that feature isn't on on a8 ... let me see.23:00
pyraknkinkade, meh, unless you think it's a better idea to use ~/public_html, i'll just go ahead and use
nkinkadepyrak: It should work now.23:01
pyrakah, and it does!23:01
nkinkadeJust better to keep one-off testing out of the main filesystem so it doesn't get junked up.23:02
pyraknkinkade, sure, makes sense23:02
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Bovinitynkinkade: shouldn't this work on zupport?
nkinkadeBovinity: It should, but the CC module probably isn't enabled.23:33
nkinkadeThat was the case on the live site as well, a fact that I was embarrassed to have Allison point out to me the other day.  It had been broken for a while.  A testament to the fact that not many people look at it.23:34
Bovinityah. oops.23:36
balleyneJED3: you wouldn't by any chance have a few minutes for a phone call, would you?23:36
Bovinitynkinkade: yeah, that fixed it. thanks.23:37
nkinkadeSorry about that.  I forgot to reenable that module when I upgraded.23:37
JED3sure, pm me your number and I'll call23:37
JED3or if you prefer we could ip telephony23:38
JED3we could skype, ekiga, or landline, you choose23:40
JED3hey pyrak, you have a second?23:43
pyrakJED3, sure23:46
JED3you're working on cc0 for jswidget right?23:51
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