Wednesday, 2009-07-29

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akozakBovinity: What font do you use for the front page banners on cc?16:53
Bovinityakzidenz grotesk for the pngs (wikipedia); helvetica for the html based ones (video library)16:54
akozakok, thanks16:55
akozakI'm trying to replicate something similar for cclearn16:55
akozakhm, I think replicate something similar is redundant16:55
thomgwho's working on ccLearn's page right now?16:56
thomgalex, cool-- thought you might be Ahrash, though I don't think he gets on IRC16:57
Bovinityhe doesn't irc16:57
akozakthomg: heya :)16:58
akozakBovinity: How do you feel re: replacing the map on cclearn page with a banner?16:59
Bovinityakozak: i feel great about it, how does AB feel about that?16:59
thomgwhat is everybody's role with CC?17:00
akozakBovinity: In agreement.17:00
Bovinityakozak: just run banners by me (as well as AB, of course)17:00
akozakBovinity: I'm working on an OpenEd banner, screengrab of a portion of the page in the back and a black opaque text banner in front of it17:01
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akozakBovinity: emailed banner17:27
akozakdraft banner that is17:27
akozakalthough I just realized it might be too wide17:32
akozakI based the size off of the map div, but that one is set at 62%17:32
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mecredisBovinity: this a/b video is reallly slow18:28
mecredisbut I like it18:28
Bovinityit's a neat intro18:28
Bovinityi'm poking around at setting it up for support18:28
mecrediswas going to ask18:28
Bovinitythere's a Drupal module18:28
mecrediswe should also think about /choose18:29
mecredisbut thats its won beast18:29
Bovinityone bummer is the Web Optimizer account can only be assoicated to a single google account18:29
Bovinityunlike Analytics18:29
mecredisthat is lame18:29
mecrediscan we do info@cc or something18:29
Bovinityyeah, we just need a shared login18:30
mecredispress@ even18:30
Bovinityand htat's a google account, not a google apps account18:30
mecredisoh I see18:30
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mecrediswell I'm happy to help // add experiments when you have it set up Bovinity18:40
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Bovinityah, webmaster@ - - should work18:43
mecredishrm, it seems unhappy18:45
mecredisWebsite Optimizer: Server problem occurred18:45
mecredisWe're sorry, but Website Optimizer experienced a problem. Please tell us about the problem so that we can fix the issue as soon as possible.18:45
Bovinityworking fine for me18:46
mecrediswhat hapepns when you go to
Bovinitythe page loads :)18:47
Bovinityprobably erroring for you because i'm already logged in18:47
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mecredisah right18:47
mecrediswell I'll let you set up the drupal thing18:48
mecredismaybe I'll try an experiment with copy on the video page18:48
Bovinityon ccorg?18:48
mecredisyeah, though don't have to do it now18:48
mecrediswhat do you think?18:52
Bovinitywhat's the conversion goal on teh videos page?18:54
Bovinitydo we want to get eyes in front of any specific videos?18:54
mecredisjust getting good copy18:54
mecredisbut no, no specific video18:54
mecredisI guess its a lot of work18:54
mecredisit'd be great to have tests for each video18:55
mecredisis that feasible?18:55
Bovinityi think so18:57
Bovinitymaybe we can try having a variable test that promotes a specific video18:58
mecredisPick me! Pick Me!18:58
Bovinitythen we can track conversions to the video's page, and use analytics to see how long the average view time for the page is18:58
Bovinityhaving a pge of videos is great, but it's a bit imposing when you get there18:59
Bovinity"where do i start?"18:59
mecredismaybe we could pick 319:00
mecredisand see who wins19:00
Bovinityso if we cycle through "START HERE", it might be an improvement19:00
mecredisI see what you're saying19:00
mecredisthen we might offer only one19:00
mecredisand cycle it19:00
mecredisbetween 4-519:01
Bovinityor have the page full, but have one cycled at the very top19:01
mecrediswhich we encourage people to watch19:01
Bovinitywe can get as detailed as we like with the test variations19:01
mecredisand make it large19:01
mecredisthe html that gets cycled can be any thing right?19:02
mecredisso we could put an img in there19:02
Bovinityright, so we could try having an img, or a vid19:02
mecredisthe vid might be difficult19:02
mecredisbecause clicking on it won't be standard browser behavior19:02
mecredisdamn you flash19:02
Bovinityyeah... the cilck through conversion is what we're tracking... so, NM about the vid.19:03
Bovinitybut image sizes and copy, definitely19:03
mecredisso maybe we should try A Shared Culture, Wanna Work Together, and Building on the Past19:04
mecrediswhich I made the top three now19:04
mecredisand we'll make a freeze frame of each of those with some copy19:04
mecredisiterate a large spot at the top19:04
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troubadorHi! I am laying out a magazine, and I'd like to use a CC-BY-SA photo. does this mean the entire magazine would have to be relicensed as CC-BY-SA?19:07
troubadorI'm sorry to trouble y'all here, but I've been reading about "derivative works" on and can't seem to find a clear answer on this.19:07
mecredis Bovinity do we have the WP plugin for optimization installed?19:09
mecredisI'll wait till that gets installed19:09
Bovinityafter lunch.19:10
mecredisno rush, just excited19:13
mecredisbetter living through A/B testing19:13
Meteorswarmtroubador: I'm no expert, but I think you would, unless you contacted the owner of the image and arranged an exception with him, like any other copyrighted photo.19:14
troubadorMeteorswarm: thanks! But this is confusing.19:15
troubadorWouldn't a photo in a magazine be part of a "collected work"?19:15
troubadorThat can have works of different licenses?19:16
mecredistroubador: yah, I've heard peoople argue that the article itself should be BY-SA19:16
mecredisbut not the larger collection19:16
MeteorswarmSome component definitely has to be BY-SA, though19:16
troubadorI thought this was more to protect the photo itself.19:16
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troubadorSo I could not say, well, I lightened this photo, and now my version is off-limits.19:17
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mecredistroubador: that's my inclination19:17
Meteorswarmthat's true, but remixes are also part of it, IMO19:17
mecredisthere is a bit of split over what copyleft means for photos19:17
mecrediswhether a derivative is created of the photo by putting text around it19:17
mecredisit turns out there's a split circuit decision on it19:17
troubadorA legal case, you mean?19:18
Meteorswarmtroubador: to be safe you should contact the artist.  He/she may not have a problem with you using the work in this way, or he/she might as for a nominal fee (or they could ask for more, obviously)19:19
troubadorSo really, anything with SA is pretty much: don't touch unless you can release the entire thing as SA.19:19
troubadorOr you can talk to the photographer.19:20
mecredistroubador: is also of interest19:22
mecredissince so much content is BY-SA19:22
troubadorBut this is why I'm confused. That page specifically mentions how the GFDL is hard to comply with for books & magazines.19:23
pyraknkinkade1, ping19:24
troubadorBut then is very brief about SA (which Wikipedia is moving to, as I understand.)19:24
troubadorMaybe this is bc of the requirement to include the whole GFDL license, though. Because the GFDL section also seems to indicate that you _can_ use a photo without making the rest of the book GFDL.19:25
troubadorI thought CC-SA was created in part to fix this problem, so journalists and graphic designers could easily use photos.19:26
troubadorkeeping the photo free, but not having to force their organization to make the entire book/magazine/paper SA.19:26
mecredistroubador: I almost forgot
mecredisbut yes, its a bit of an open question I'm afraid19:27
mecredisdespite being relatively straightforward for code19:27
Meteorswarmtroubador: the cc-sa section is brief but pretty clear: When re-using the work or distributing it, you must mention the license terms or a link to them. You must make your version available under CC-SA.  I guess the argument is where the boundaries of the "version" are19:27
nkinkade1pyrak: Hi.19:27
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pyraknkinkade, let's talk nice.19:27
troubadorMeteorswarm: right.19:27
nkinkadeWhat about ionice?  It's a great utility.19:27
troubadorI'd think the "version" is the photo, or if you lighten it or include it in a montage.19:27
pyraknkinkade, first, where does jswidget live?19:28
pyrakactually, i suppose that's irrelevant19:28
nkinkadepyrak: On a8, I believe.19:28
pyrakoh, well that's convenient then19:28
pyrakso i'm working on some jswidget stuff19:28
pyrakactually, i think we chatted about this last thurs19:28
pyraki want to try running the template generator on one of the servers19:28
pyrakit will probably take several hours19:29
nkinkadeThat should be fine.19:29
nkinkadeIf you think it will stomp the machine's disk i/o, then maybe ionice would be good.19:29
nkinkadeBut you need to be root to run it.19:29
nkinkadeOr have root privileges, that is.19:30
nkinkadepyrak: Feel free to just try it without ionice and see what happens.19:30
pyraknkinkade, i don't believe that i have sudo on a819:30
pyraknkinkade, u sure?19:30
nkinkadeI think that most of a8's traffic is cached, i.e., not much disk i/o.19:31
nkinkadepyrak: Give it a shot without ionice, and just keep an eye on, for example.19:31
pyraknkinkade, okay, will do19:33
pyraknkinkade, shall i push it to the bg and give you a process id, so you can kill it if i get distracted?19:34
nkinkadepyrak: You could run it in a screen session.19:34
troubadorMeteorswarm: et al. I'm reading
nkinkadeBut either way, I'll have no problem finding the process killing it if necessary.19:35
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troubadorThe definition of "collection" (1b) seems much closer to a magazine use of a photo then the definition of "adaption".19:35
mecredis_I think you have your answer19:35
mecredis_but IANAL19:35
troubadorHeh, me neither.19:36
pyraknkinkade, hm, never used screen19:37
mecredis_nkinkade: screen just burned me19:37
nkinkadepyrak: It's great.  Just type screen and press enter.19:37
nkinkadeIt's a terminal multiplexer with some neat features, like being able to detach from the session, logout and then come back later.19:38
nkinkadeMuch more useful than &.19:38
nkinkadeYou don't lose the terminal buffer.19:38
troubadorWell, thanks for the help, folks. :)19:40
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pyrakso a commit process is hanging on "Transmitting file data ..." is it a really bad idea to ctrl+c it?19:42
pyraknkinkade, so do you do most of your command line stuff from within a screen session?19:48
nkinkadepyrak: I'd let the subversion commit go until svn times outs.19:48
nkinkadeBut I don't think it would hurt anything to kill it.19:49
pyraknkinkade, ah, it just gave up19:49
pyrakand then worked just fine19:49
nkinkadeBut no, I don't do much in screen lately.19:49
nkinkadeI used to use it more.  But I always use it when I about to launch some long operation in a remote shell.19:49
nkinkadeSo that if my connection dies, or I need to logout for some reason the screen session will stay running and I can just reattach to it when I come back.19:50
pyraknkinkade, can you reattach if your local machine crashes?19:51
nkinkadepyrak: Yes.19:51
nkinkadeIn a case like that the screen session will think it's still attached, so you have detach it and reattach to it (screen -dr)19:52
nkinkadeYou can have as many screen session as you like.19:52
akozakIt really bugs me that I can't use my cc partner acct in google groups or analytics19:56
pyraknkinkade, hm, i seem to have been chmodded out of my ability to svn up in the jswidget dir on a819:57
nkinkadepyrak: And now?19:59
pyraknkinkade, fixt. ty20:00
pyrakok, it's running :/20:06
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nkinkade1Whoa ... that python script is CPU hungry.20:17
pyraknom nom nom20:23
mecredis_Bovinity: let me know if you get the A/B plugin set up20:27
nathanypyrak: nkinkade1: JED3: tech call, 5 minutes, conference line?20:31
nathanypyrak, we can call from the green room20:31
pyrakover and out20:32
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greg-ganyone else editing the wiki right now?20:44
greg-gas in, is anyone else ABLE to edit the wiki right now?20:44
mecredis_You do not have permission to edit this page, for the following reason:20:47
mecredis_You do not have permission to edit pages in the User namespace.20:47
greg-gI can't edit any page20:50
greg-gcan't even edit my own user page :(20:50
greg-gand of course nkinkade disconnects right before I discover this20:50
mecredis_yeah, thats where I got that error20:50
* greg-g nods20:51
greg-gwell, copying the source and editing locally for now, I suppose20:51
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mecredis_[[Web integration]]?20:53
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greg-gmecredis_: yeah, working on that20:57
greg-gand the /HowTo20:57
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JesseW_elsewherenkinkade1: thanks for fixing whatever broke the wiki21:57
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nkinkadeJesseW_elsewhere: Hi.21:57
nkinkadeIt was a slipup with git, that's all21:57
nkinkadegit-submodule precisely.21:57
JesseW_elsewheresuch things happen -- no worries21:57
nkinkadeThat "feature" of having git screw your submodules if you add a change with a trailing slash is crazy.21:58
nkinkadeBut it was an easy fix.21:58
nkinkadeJesseW_elsewhere: How does AF looks now?21:58
JesseW_elsewherenkinkade: much better21:59
nkinkadeAlso, are you usually in some other irc channel.21:59
JesseW_elsewherenkinkade: various; none right now because I'm on a different computer21:59
greg-gnkinkade: I and mecredis_ can't edit any wiki pages, including our own userpages22:00
nkinkadeJesseW_elsewhere: You can find me in here most almost always, except at night and early morning ... if you want to chat about anything.22:00
JesseW_elsewheregreg-g, mecredis : let me look into that; and sorry, of course.22:01
JesseW_elsewheremecredis: what is your wiki username?22:01
* greg-g is Greg.grossmeier22:01
JesseW_elsewhereI know that ;-)22:01
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JesseW_elsewheregreg-g: you arn't blocked -- try editing right now and tell me what happens...22:02
mecredis_still blocked22:03
JesseW_elsewheremecredis: checking.22:03
JesseW_elsewherehm, maybe it's an IP block.  I'll remove those and see what happens...22:03
nkinkadegreg-g: What's this "I and mecredis_" stuff?22:03
mecredis_wha wha?22:04
mecredis_different laptop?22:04
mecredis_two IRC clients22:04
mecredis_sorry, question wasn't for me22:04
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Bovinitytesters needed22:04
nkinkadeBovinity: Whatcha got?22:04
Bovinityplz go to and either click on the $150 "Donate Now" OR one of the other donate buttons... no need to donate22:05
Bovinitynkinkade: requires you to accept google cookies22:05
greg-gnkinkade: I suck at grammar? :)22:05
JesseW_elsewherehm -- all the IP blocks are anon. only, so they shouldn't affect users...22:05
Bovinitynkinkade: i realise now that's why it probably didnt work for you (and i had a hosts redirect for something else, whcih broke it for me)22:05
nkinkadeBovinity: I have to accept Google's cookies in at least one place to work with Google Apps.22:05
JesseW_elsewheremecredis: What is the exact error message you get?  Paste it in here (or on a paste site)22:05
greg-gJesseW_elsewhere: still no go after a logout/login22:05
greg-gJesseW_elsewhere: my error:
nkinkadeBovinity: Done.22:07
JesseW_elsewheregreg-g: checking22:07
Bovinitynkinkade: did you get a bold or shorter version of the intro text?22:07
nkinkade... and in goes one more egg to the Google basket.22:07
nkinkadeBovinity: Regular.  Not bold.22:08
JesseW_elsewheregreg-g: ah... hm.  That explains a bit.  Checking -- looks alright.  Odd.22:09
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greg-gwell, I'm heading home, ping me with thoughts/suggestions/fixes for the wiki thing. I'll probably be online in a few hours (time for bbq and beers with the neighbors)22:10
JesseW_elsewhereah. I see I can't edit either.  Hm, looks like a problem for nkinkade ...22:10
JesseW_elsewheregreg-g: enjoy -- thanks22:11
nkinkadeShall I temporarily disable AF, JesseW_elsewhere?22:11
JesseW_elsewhereNo, this problem has nothing to do with AF, I'm pretty sure.  It's an upgrade problem.22:12
JesseW_elsewhereIt looks like the permissions (that which sets out who can edit what -- have gotten screwed up)  As an admin, I can't edit them -- but as a Beaurcrat, you should be able to; check what says and see if it lets you change anything22:13
JesseW_elsewhereah, and I think I see the problem: there is a Users group *and* a users group (with different captialization); you need to put the "editcontent" permission into the Users group, not the users group...22:15
nkinkadeJesseW_elsewhere: It should be fixed now.22:15
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nkinkadeSadly, I had accidentally referenced $wgGroupPermissions['users'] .... should have been ['user']22:16
mecredis_Bovinity: nice, is this a new proposed design?22:16
JesseW_elsewhereyep, looks fixed.  mecredis: is it working for you now?22:16
JesseW_elsewherenkinkade: gragh -- oops... ;-)22:16
mecredis_yep, we're good JesseW_elsewhere thanks22:16
Bovinitymecredis_: no, a test for the sake of A/B22:16
mecredis_ah right22:16
mecredis_what am I looking for then22:16
mecredis_or rather what is the swappable text22:17
JesseW_elsewheremecredis: great, thanks22:17
Bovinitymecredis_: the intro copy may, or may not, have some differences to the live version (bold text, or shorter)22:17
mecredis_ah I see22:17
mecredis_let me poke at it a bit22:17
Bovinitymecredis_: just got it running on zupport to make sure it all works out.22:17
Bovinitytakes a while for stats to be reported though..22:18
mecredis_and if I remember the video right22:18
mecredis_it will just pick one thing and show that to me over and over again22:18
Bovinityright, unless you clear your cookies22:18
Bovinitycarson thought it was IP based... nah, jsut cookie based22:19
Bovinityso you could load another browser and test it again! whee!22:19
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mecredis_I'll try different browser sessions in a sec22:24
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pyraknkinkade, yo22:51
pyraknkinkade, so isn't publicly accessible22:51
pyrakperhaps i should have checked this before running the template generator in there22:51
pyrakthe good news is the template generating script finished and didnt spit out any errors22:54
pyrakthe bad news is that i can't tell whether or not it worked :/22:54
mecredis_Bovinity: how many are there?22:55
Bovinitymecredis_: 322:55
mecredis_I like it22:55
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pyrakBovinity, any insight into the above?22:56
pyraki couldn't find a .htaccess file22:56
Bovinitypyrak: re
Bovinityi have 0 idea how any of that is set up22:57
pyrakwait, now i found a .htaccess file22:57
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pyraknkinkade, actually, ignore everything i just said23:04
pyraki'm an idiot23:04
nkinkadepyrak:  What did you say?23:04
JesseW_elsewherenkinkade: do you have any idea why deleting pages is so slow?  It seems to work, but only after a hideously long time, in which the whole site is unavailable (at least to that browser instance...) I presume it's some kind of cache issue...23:07
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nkinkadeJesseW_elsewhere: I'm not sure, but we do have the parser cache disabled.23:07
nkinkadeBut it's been that way for years.23:08
JesseW_elsewherehm -- well, deleting pages has been slow the whole time I've been here...23:08
nkinkadeBut the whole site goes down while it's churning away?23:08
JesseW_elsewhereI typically get the following error message whenever I try to load any pages while waiting to delete things: Error 503 Service Unavailable23:09
JesseW_elsewhereService Unavailable23:09
JesseW_elsewhereGuru Meditation:23:09
JesseW_elsewhereXID: 191546911323:09
JesseW_elsewherewhere the XID number varies.23:09
JesseW_elsewhereand it only happens when deleting pages...23:10
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nkinkadeThat can't be good.23:12
nkinkadeIt could be a Varnish issue.23:12
akozakwe've been getting a lot of varnish errors23:12
JesseW_elsewhereit only happens when deleting pages, so it's not a problem for normal users -- but it sure is a PITA for me...23:16
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JesseW_elsewherenkinkade: thanks23:24
nkinkadeJesseW_elsewhere: Feel free to create an account there and make yourself nosy on that ticket.23:25
nkinkadeIt may be a few days or a week before I get to it.  I've got a few other things that take priority right now.23:25
nkinkadeBut then again, if it's a serious impediment to keeping spam down, I'll do it, say, tomorrow.23:26
nkinkadeJust let me know ...23:26
nkinkadeYour help here is very much appreciated and I'll do whatever I need to to make sure that you are not hampered in preening the wiki.23:27
nkinkadeJesseW_elsewhere: ^^23:27
JesseW_elsewhereIt's not a serious impediment; I wrote a script to send the cmds to delete things en mass, so if I find I need to blast a lot, I can and do use that.  So there's no hurry at all.23:28
nkinkadeYou've done this once or twice before, huh? :-)23:31
JesseW_elsewherewell, I'd written part of the script for use on Wikipedia, yes, but I adapted it for use here, too...23:35
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JesseW_elsewhereSomeone should look into this, it seems to not be under CC:
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