Thursday, 2009-07-16

JED3nkinkade: what version of Drupal is this?00:03
JED3it looks like the "list" option is actually a part of the Image CCK type in Drupal, and maybe that field isn't support in the core of the version of drupal we are running00:04
nkinkadeJED3: 6.7, I believe.00:05
JED3Ubercart has included the option in their modules, but it doesn't appear to actually be affecting any of the functionality of the content type00:05
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nkinkadeJED3: But interestingly, if I enabled "Enforce Default" in the Product content type the List checkbox goes away from the product editing page for each image.00:07
nkinkadeThis would *seem* to indicate to me that that checkbox is not being but there by Ubercart, but by CCK.00:07
nkinkadeI could be wrong about that.00:08
nkinkadeIt seems that one of the nice things about Ubercart is that is leverages much of Drupal's builtin features instead of reinventing the wheel.00:10
nkinkadeSo the whole Product editing page is really just a regular Drupal node at heart.00:11
JED3ha yeah, unfortunately much of Drupal itself is inherently flawed IMO00:11
JED3this Ubercart is slick though00:11
nkinkadeThat could be right as well. haha00:11
nkinkadeI don't know Drupal very well at all.00:12
nkinkadeOr maybe we're just piling flawed on flawed. :-)00:12
JED3its just a nightmare to extend and the documentation online is so long-winded that its very hard to find any authoritative or definitive answers00:13
JED3haha maybe00:13
nkinkadeYou know, I've found that that is true for most any large code project I've ever seen.00:13
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JED3I agree00:13
JED3wordpress is bad as well00:13
nkinkadeWordpress had made me crazy.  Drupal has driven me nuts.  CiviCRM has made my eyes go crossed.00:14
JED3haha ditto*300:14
nkinkadeCode seems to inherently get totally muddled and confusing for anyone other than the initiated and devs once it gets beyond a certain size.00:14
nkinkadeI used to think it was flawed design, but I'm not starting to feel like it's just the nature of the beast.00:15
JED3I hate to say it, but engineers should be the ones writing this stuff, with the large scale projects, ran by organizations, they typically hire tech writers and all goes to hell00:15
JED3but if you look at the linux man pages, python docs, django, rubyonrails. they're all incredibly clear00:16
nkinkademan page are pretty good in *some* case ... for  things like ls, cd, cat00:17
nkinkadeAn exercise: $ man mplayer00:17
nkinkadeBut I will admit that the python docs are good ... the api docs, that is.00:18
JED3PHP is pretty good too considering its size00:20
nkinkadeYeah, has been good to me.  Their api docs are also very useful, and I like the examples.00:22
JED3well sorry I wasnt of much help, I look into this a bit more tonight00:24
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binraptCC recommends not using CC licenses for software - but what is the software equivalent of by-nc-sa? The GNU licenses lack the nc part I believe.14:44
binraptOr did I miss something?14:44
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greg-gbinrapt: you are correct, no GNU license has a comparable "NC" aspect. But, CC licenses dont make legal sense for code. It doesn't talk about source vs binary or anything that would be important for that area.15:17
greg-gbinrapt: you can look for some other license that is written for code and includes a NC clause, but, that code will not be considered "open source" or "free software" to any group.15:18
binraptgreg-g: Do you have any suggestions? I am looking for an open source software license with a non-commercial clause.15:19
binraptYeah I thought about doing that, except the GPL is copyrighted and all for example, they could sue me haha ;(15:19
greg-gbinrapt: I would seriously reevaluate you desire for an NC clause, first. Mainly because I know of no "Open Source" license like that. I put it in quotes because, again, not many people would see that as Open Source (I wouldn't).15:30
binraptWhy not?15:30
greg-gbecause restricting that use is not a part of any standard of Free/Open Source.15:31
greg-gbut you are of course free to write your own license and use it. My opinion are just my opinions.15:31
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nkinkadeJED3: Which were the rewrite rules you wanted me to look at?  The ones in creativecommons.conf on staging?18:46
JED3i think there are also some other changes in the conf where i replaced references to license18:48
JED3I left in rewrite for the common mispell, licesne/ -> to license/18:49
JED3i suppose that could just go straight to choose/ right?18:50
JED3we were also redirecting for /license/devnations to /retiredlicenses18:51
JED3I changed that to /choose/devnations since the url should already be rewritten by the rules at 53-55 right?18:52
JED3ahh well that doesn't work, that url makes it to the Zope instance18:53
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mecredisInow I think I'm going to get curry19:07
JED3for anyone who may be interested, there is some good discussion in the comments of this post
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nathanygreg-g: i'm ready whenever you are19:52
greg-gnathany: cool, call me in like 5?19:53
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nkinkadeJED3: If I don't reply to something in here quickly just throw nkinkade in there, otherwise I may not look at the chat window and won't otherwise be notified that someone was addressing me.20:00
nkinkadeEverything you say above about the rewrite rules seems right to me.  The only thing I'd change is to change R to R=301 where you made modifications.20:00
JED3hmm okay20:00
nkinkadeSince the change is permanent it's better to give users, and especially spiders the word that it's permanent.20:01
nkinkadeI think Apache defaults to a 302.20:01
JED3choose/devnations doesnt work though20:01
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nkinkadeJED3: Probably because the following rule in the Varnish config is sending it directly to Zope:20:05
nkinkade( req.url ~ "^/(choose|characteristic)/" )20:05
JED3nkinkade: oh okay, then that rule isn't doing anything anyway20:06
JED3the apache rewrite that is20:06
nkinkadeI think not.20:06
JED3 hits zope20:07
nkinkadeThe "File not found." errors is a Zope error I'm used to seeing.20:07
JED3should we fix this to actually redirect for us while we have it open?20:07
nkinkadeBut shouldn't that rule really be for something like /licenses/devnations ??20:08
nkinkadeWas there ever a /license/devnations ??20:09
nkinkadeJED3: Did you by chance do something like s/license/choose/ in the config file?20:09
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nkinkadeIt almost seems that way because the rules for the GPL and BSD licenses now have /choose in front of them, which I dont think is correct.20:10
JED3no I was going to, but instead I just searched for the pattern and did it manual20:10
JED3nkinkade: hmm thats a good point20:11
nkinkadeHmm.  Looking at the live site's config, they are /license/devnations too.20:11
JED3where did you see BSD on choose?20:11
JED3the BSD deed is still on licenses/ where it should be right?20:12
nkinkadeLine 202 and 203.20:13
nkinkadeJust GPL.20:13
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JED3nkinkade: should the gpl not be on choose?20:14
nkinkadenathany might be able to answer that one.  Those rules predate me.20:14
nkinkadeBut those rules for /license/devnations /license/cc-gpl-br and /license/cc-lgpl-br are broken20:15
nathany /license/ should all move to /choose/20:15
JED3the lgpl seems to work as well, what looked wrong about the rules for them?20:17
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nkinkadeRewriteRule ^/license/cc-gpl-br$20:19
nkinkadeApache will never see that URL and Zope will just emit an error.20:19
JED3which line?20:20
JED3line 203 on the staging conf has choose in the rule20:21
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nkinkadeJED3: I'm referring to line 203, but with the old value ... the value that is still on the live site.20:26
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nkinkadeBasically I'm just saying that those redirects are superfluous.20:26
JED3ohh ok20:26
nkinkadeAnd was questioning whether they should actually be working or now.20:26
nkinkadeBut since I have no idea what they are, then I defer to nathany.  At the moment they do nothing and those URLs just return File not found. errors from Zope.20:27
nathanynkinkade: you're referring to something like ?20:28
nkinkadenathany: Yeah.  Those are the rules in the Apache conf.20:29
nathanywell if it doesn't work now we obviously don't expect it to work on /choose/ ;)20:29
nkinkadeIt's either a mistake that Varnish is catching them, or else they should be removed.20:29
nathanybut i'm actually not sure what that's supposed to be20:29
nkinkadenathany: How about ^/license/devnations$20:29
nkinkadeThat one seems more obvious, but it's a "File not found." as well.20:30
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nathanywe didn't redirect that?20:30
nathanyto something like /license/retiredlicenses (or something like that)20:30
nkinkadeThat's what the rewrite rule is supposed to do, but Varnish is catching that URL before it ever gets to Apache.  Zope is getting it.20:31
nkinkadeMaybe our Vanish rule is too greedy.20:31
nathanyso it would seem20:32
nkinkadeBut honestly, I have no idea whether a URL like /license/devnations ever existed.20:32
nathanyit did at one point20:32
nkinkadeI wonder if teh author of that rule mean to put in something more like /licenses/devnations20:32
nathany /licenses/devnations/2.0/ is still served, as expected20:33
nkinkadeBasically that rule has not been working for well over a year, so I'm inclined to say we should just let it go at that.20:33
nathanyit should really continue working; it's been a bug for a year but if we ever deprecate other things, we'll invoke similar requirements then as well20:35
nathanyso i'd prefer that we fix the bug20:35
nathanynkinkade: ^^ (unfortunately)20:36
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nkinkadeI guess it will mean just adding more rules to Varnish.20:36
nathanynkinkade: i suppose alternately we could have zope return a redirect20:37
nathanythat actually might be really easy20:37
nkinkadeGoogle: link:
nathany(and possibly more maintainable in the long run)20:37
nkinkadeNo results.20:37
nathanynkinkade: i'll open a ticket for /license/devnations20:38
nkinkadeBut I think I might rather keep the redirects in Varnish or Apache and not cc.engine, as the previous two are more clear to me.  cc.engine is something of a black box for me.20:38
nkinkadeI don't know, maybe we should just remove the redirects from Varnish altogether.20:39
nathanynkinkade: yeah, i can see either approach -- either we want redirects in varnish/apache because more people can edit them20:39
nkinkadeIt seems like it's more trouble than it's worth to maintain redirection in two places.20:39
nathanyor we commit to maintaining certain views in cc.engine and whether they return pages or redirects is irrelevant; you can count on the URLs being served by that software20:40
nkinkadeMaybe we should just revert to letting Apache do all the redirect, to Zope and otherwise.20:40
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nathanynkinkade: iirc we split them to varnish for performance reasons20:40
nathanyi have some ideas about reducing cc.engine's memory usage/response time but until we fill asheesh's position we don't have the capacity to act on them20:40
nkinkadenathany: I'm not sure we knew there was a performance issue.  It was more that having Apache be an uncessary middle man certainly can't help performance.20:41
nathanyi suppose my thought at the moment is:20:41
nathany1) let's not dig into this any more than we have to (so we'll leave zope rules in varnish)20:41
nkinkadeBut it's entirely possible that the performance hit is so small as to not be recognizable.20:41
nathany2) let's decide on an approach wrt the license engine and redirects; my inclination is to do them in cc.engine -- we can write tests, etc and keep it somewhat self-contained20:42
nkinkadeOkay, so for #1, it just means that we'll have to make the Varnish rules more complex.20:42
nathanybut i'm open to objections to #220:42
nkinkadenathany: Come to think of it, I may be in favor of having cc.engine do the redirects when necessary.20:42
nathanyi think i like it because it keeps it self-contained20:42
nkinkadeThe idea being that if cc.engine ever served the URL in any way, then it should also handle the legacy.20:43
nathanythat's my thinking20:43
nathanywe can handle devnations right now, worry about rolling other existing legacy rules in as needed (and going forward)20:43
nkinkadeThat means that the Varnish rule can be ultra simple, and Apache isn't involved at all.20:44
nkinkadeEverything under /license goes right to Zope.20:44
nkinkadeNo wondering whether something under /license is handled by some Varnish rule, some Apache rule or cc.engine ... it's all cc.engine all the time.20:44
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nkinkadeOne stop shopping for /license20:45
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nkinkadeAlright, so JED3 will take care of that? :-)20:45
nathanyi'll open a ticket for /license/devnations20:46
nathanyi can probably knock that out this afternoon20:47
nathanyyou can add other legacy URLs (cc-gpl-br?) to that ticket as well20:47
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nkinkadeJED3: Success.
nkinkadeBut I did end up editing the code, in the same function you found yesterday.21:28
JED3awesome, css?21:28
JED3ohh okay21:28
JED3cool, looks good without that annoying icon21:28
Bovinitynkinkade: that looks way better21:31
nkinkadeBovinity: You could do some CSS foo on it at some point if you wanted.21:32
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