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| Zelut | greg-g: all ur credit card r belong 2 me | 00:32 |
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| greg-g | hey, at least they read my blog posts :) | 00:37 |
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| isforinsects | paulproteus: ping | 18:10 |
| isforinsects | I need some datum real-fast: what are the daily unique visitors to the CC site? | 18:11 |
| Bovinity | http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/Mastering-Cat/ | 18:17 |
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| kilps | hi there - can i talk to anyone here about gsoc ideas? | 18:43 |
| paulproteus | kilps, Yes! | 18:45 |
| paulproteus | The primary mentor just stepped out for an hour but I might be some use. | 18:45 |
| paulproteus | isforinsects, pong | 18:45 |
| paulproteus | isforinsects, Hmm, I don't know, but let me see if our Google Analytics knows. | 18:45 |
| kilps | paul proteus thanks - im thinking of applying to develop a all round wordpress plugin - building on the medai manager idea, but also supporting licencing an entire blog or individual posts - do you think there is room for this? | 18:46 |
| paulproteus | There is already WpLicense - have you seen that? | 18:46 |
| kilps | yes i have - but as far as i can tell it is rather limiting in just allowing licencing the whole blog (unless i missed something). im interested in allowing control at all three lessons: whole blog, individual posts, media items | 18:48 |
| paulproteus | Ah, right. | 18:51 |
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| kilps | ive seen in the mailing list that others are applying for this - would it still be worth while for me to do so aswell? | 18:52 |
| paulproteus | Let me see. | 18:54 |
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| paulproteus | We do already have two proposals on the topic, one of which looks fairly good. | 19:00 |
| paulproteus | I'd say that you ought to apply with a different idea unless you have a really good background for doing this. | 19:01 |
| kilps | ok yes thanks i was starting to think that | 19:01 |
| paulproteus | It's still possible to outcompete the one that looks good, but it does look good right now. | 19:01 |
| kilps | im just looking at the whole liblicence project - is someone working on a php library for liblicence at the moment? | 19:01 |
| paulproteus | No one has submitted a proposal for that, and no CC staff time is dedicated to doing that either. | 19:02 |
| kilps | ok im just interested because i see its an issue when looking at the wordpress media plugin idea - id be interested in this but am just looking at it from a technical perspective - do you think it has potential? | 19:03 |
| paulproteus | I don't understand your question. | 19:05 |
| paulproteus | I think that it is a good project for a GSoC student to do. | 19:05 |
| paulproteus | I think technically it has enough challenges, and that it is clearly useful. | 19:06 |
| kilps | ok thanks that answers the question | 19:06 |
| paulproteus | Cool. | 19:06 |
| kilps | the only thing im concernaed about is my ability (i taught myself php so have gaps in my knowledge) - for now im just looking at how i might go about it | 19:07 |
| paulproteus | I think that given that we have a good proposal for that particular project, we'd probably take the person with more PHP and WordPress coding experience. | 19:10 |
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| kilps | are you refering to the media manager project? i completely understand that - although i do have wordpress development experience i am pretty sure that there are others who could do far better | 19:17 |
| paulproteus | Yup, I'm talking about the media manager project. | 19:18 |
| kilps | id also rather do something more interesting/different/useful so if someone else is working on that already ill look at something different | 19:18 |
| kilps | ok | 19:18 |
| paulproteus | Cool, I hope you find a project that you can work on. Especially if it's for us, but even if not! | 19:18 |
| kilps | just to make sure that i am getting this idea with liblicence right - to make it similar enough to the current library a php version would basically have to be able to read and write licence data to any of the currrently supported files with their perfered meta data type? | 19:19 |
| paulproteus | There are two ways to go about that. | 19:20 |
| paulproteus | One is to rewrite liblicense from scratch in PHP, which sounds like what you're saying. | 19:20 |
| paulproteus | Another is just to write PHP bindings to the existing C library. | 19:20 |
| paulproteus | I think we'd prefer the second option. | 19:20 |
| kilps | ok yes i was thinking of the first | 19:20 |
| kilps | but the second makes far more sense - ill take a look at that now | 19:21 |
| kilps | just surely the second would require the library to installed by the server administrator? which would be tricky for those who are limited by hosting companies? | 19:21 |
| paulproteus | Oh, yes, that's probably true. )-: | 19:22 |
| paulproteus | Maybe PHP has dlopen() that users can use, though? | 19:22 |
| Bovinity | it's probably turne off for security sake | 19:22 |
| paulproteus | It'd be pretty cool to be able to add shared libraries at runtime to a shared web server. | 19:22 |
| kilps | i havnt done anything like that before - busy looking it all up - but id guess that that would be restricted. | 19:23 |
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| paulproteus | I agree, yeah. | 19:24 |
| kilps | also that would add complexity for the user - particularly self taughts like me ;) - personally i really like it when i can just include one php file, create an object and use its methods - this would make it much more complex than that | 19:25 |
| paulproteus | Yes, agreed! | 19:26 |
| paulproteus | If it's possible to have many-to-most of the liblicense features in pure PHP, that would probably be quite useful. | 19:26 |
| paulproteus | Same thing with C#, actually. | 19:26 |
| kilps | ok so that would mean implimenting (preferably existing) php libraries for all the different forms of meta data (http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Liblicense/Metadata_Table) | 19:28 |
| kilps | do you know if the form in which the cc data is stored with liblicience is documented anywhere? im struggling to find it without resorting to the source code... | 19:28 |
| paulproteus | Yeah - it's all documented on the page on the CC Wiki about each file format. | 19:29 |
| paulproteus | Let me find you a better link. | 19:29 |
| paulproteus | http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Embedding | 19:29 |
| kilps | thanks | 19:29 |
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| nkinkade | nathany: Do we have any strict policy on adding languages to Pootle? | 20:04 |
| nkinkade | Someone just wrote in about translating to Russian. There is Russian for ccPublisher, but not for cc_org. | 20:05 |
| nkinkade | I was thinking that it couldn't hurt to have someone translate, as long as they understood that it would have to be accepted by the jurisdiction down the road. | 20:05 |
| kilps | paulproteus are you still around? | 20:15 |
| Bovinity | he and nathany are AFK | 20:15 |
| kilps | ok thanks is there anyone around i can chat to about gsoc? | 20:16 |
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| nathany | nkinkade: i wouldn't call it a strict policy but we've been hesitant to do so w/o an affiliate | 20:29 |
| nathany | kilps: i can try and answer questions for you re: gsoc | 20:29 |
| kilps | thanks nathany - did you follow the proposal i was discussing with paulproteus earlier? otherwise i can give a quick overview | 20:30 |
| nathany | no, i just got back into the office | 20:30 |
| kilps | ok sure - basically my proposal is a php implimentation of liblicense (not a binding) - im busy putting together my proposal. is it sufficient to simply explain the final product and how i intend going about implimenting it? | 20:32 |
| nathany | kilps: yeah, i think so; what else would you include beyond what you want to do and how you'll do it? :) | 20:32 |
| kilps | ok fair enough - just trying to figure out into how much detail i should go :) | 20:33 |
| kilps | think ive got everything i need though | 20:33 |
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| nkinkade | paulproteus: How is it that a PO file in Pootle would become out of date with something in the i18n repository? | 20:44 |
| paulproteus | nkinkade, Because of a failure in the pre-commit hook, which I don't really understand how it could happen. )-: | 20:45 |
| paulproteus | Now that I'm back at my desk I'll investigate. | 20:45 |
| nkinkade | Got this: svn: Commit failed (details follow): svn: File '/i18n/trunk/po/de/cc_org.po' is out of date | 20:45 |
| nkinkade | When I tried to commit any DE changes. | 20:45 |
| paulproteus | Oh, I see. | 20:45 |
| paulproteus | That's easy to have happen. | 20:45 |
| paulproteus | (note that I already had a shell open to translate.creativecommons.org when I wrote I'd investigate) | 20:46 |
| nkinkade | Who might have been editing the file in the repo? | 20:46 |
| paulproteus | If some human updates po/de/cc_org.po and doesn't ssh to Pootle, then .. | 20:46 |
| paulproteus | ... I don't know, svn log? | 20:46 |
| nkinkade | There's only some stuff about 3 weeks old. | 20:46 |
| nkinkade | It must have been that, though. | 20:46 |
| nkinkade | paulproteus: So is the simple answer to just become pootle, svn up that dir, then restart Pootle, then commit? | 20:47 |
| paulproteus | Yup. | 20:47 |
| paulproteus | Er, wait. | 20:47 |
| paulproteus | "then commit" - do you mean, from the Pootle UI? | 20:47 |
| nkinkade | Yeah. | 20:47 |
| paulproteus | So long as you commit from the Pootle UI, I agree. | 20:47 |
| nkinkade | That's what I meant. These days I'll do everything through the Pootle UI. | 20:48 |
| paulproteus | Cool. | 20:48 |
| nkinkade | ... and leave the background stuff to the commit hooks. | 20:48 |
| paulproteus | "One of these days" we can make things work even outside of the UI. | 20:48 |
| nkinkade | The only things I may do locally would be to update the cc-style PO files. | 20:48 |
| paulproteus | nkinkade, Actually, do me a favor | 20:48 |
| nkinkade | Sure. | 20:48 |
| paulproteus | Let me do the "commit" action from inside Pootle. | 20:48 |
| paulproteus | This is a good way for me to test the pre-commit hooks. | 20:48 |
| nkinkade | Sure. I'll let you know in a second. | 20:48 |
| paulproteus | So just ping me when you're ready to tell me, "Commit de". | 20:49 |
| paulproteus | w00t. | 20:49 |
| nkinkade | paulproteus: Did you already svn up the i18n/trunk/po/de/? | 20:49 |
| nkinkade | I just tried and it simply said: At revision 12023. | 20:50 |
| paulproteus | I've done nothing of the sort. | 20:50 |
| paulproteus | I... think. | 20:50 |
| * paulproteus double-checks in his head | 20:50 | |
| nkinkade | Seems there was nothing to update to. | 20:50 |
| paulproteus | Yeah, I'm pretty sure I haven't. | 20:50 |
| nkinkade | If you did, you would have had to do it in the past 5 minutes. | 20:50 |
| paulproteus | Then no. | 20:50 |
| nkinkade | So then I'm confused about the svn error that Pootle spit up. | 20:50 |
| paulproteus | Weird. Perhaps it's because the local dir was at a previous revision but where that previous revision had no changes to de/? | 20:51 |
| paulproteus | But I thought svn just skipped the "Out of date" messages in that case. | 20:51 |
| paulproteus | So I don't think that's actually a real reason, hmm. | 20:51 |
| isforinsects | paulproteus: oi | 20:52 |
| paulproteus | Oh yeah. | 20:52 |
| paulproteus | I promised you stats. | 20:52 |
| paulproteus | You still want 'em? | 20:52 |
| isforinsects | even rough numbers would be nice, yeah | 20:53 |
| paulproteus | isforinsects, Digging it up now, one sec. | 21:00 |
| paulproteus | Er, got distracted by http://www.nin.com/pub/strobelight/ | 21:05 |
| paulproteus | Google Analytics seems to report to us that in the last week of March, we had ca. 389K visits, and 355K "absolute unique visitors". Also, FWIW, we're 50% IE, 39% Fx, and 6% Safari, and 2% Chrome and Opera each. | 21:10 |
| paulproteus | You wanted per-month? Multiplying the second number by four is probably close to correct, but it's iffy given that some might be repeat in a month who aren't repeat in a week. | 21:11 |
| paulproteus | isforinsects, ^^ | 21:12 |
| nkinkade | paulproteus: nathany: Will you both be around and about tomorrow? I was thinking to maybe try to get a5 upgraded to Lenny. | 21:22 |
| paulproteus | Yes. | 21:22 |
| paulproteus | I may take a long-ish lunch at noon, and then there's the all-staff meeting at two. | 21:23 |
| paulproteus | So something like 10am Pacific I can promise to be interactively available. | 21:23 |
| nkinkade | That sounds like a good time. | 21:23 |
| nkinkade | I'll tentatively plan on it and catch up with you tomorrow. | 21:23 |
| paulproteus | Cool. | 21:23 |
| paulproteus | I made a note on my planner. | 21:24 |
| nathany | nkinkade (paulproteus): I'm planning to be off tomorrow; what about the same time on Tuesday? | 21:25 |
| paulproteus | (That works too) | 21:25 |
| nkinkade | nathany: Tuesday will work as well. I'd like for you to be available just in case something happens to cc.engine. | 21:26 |
| nkinkade | And for a7 as well. | 21:26 |
| nkinkade | Maybe we can do a7 next week sometime too. | 21:26 |
| nathany | nkinkade: right; have we done a7 yet? | 21:26 |
| nkinkade | a5 and a7 are the only two remaining. | 21:26 |
| nathany | got it | 21:26 |
| nathany | nkinkade: yeah, i figured that's why you were asking me (wrt cc.engine) | 21:27 |
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| isforinsects | paulproteus: thanks dood | 21:39 |
| paulproteus | How does that compare to what you were expecting, and what do you plan to use it for? | 21:40 |
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| hdworak | hi | 21:53 |
| hdworak | ankitg: long time no see :) | 21:54 |
| hdworak | ankitg: how's it going? are you applying for GSoC 2009? :) | 21:54 |
| ankitg | hi hdworak | 21:54 |
| ankitg | hdworak: the project I'd *love* to do is in an organization with a just 1 (at most 2 slots) and there are at least 10 applicants ... so I doubt I'll get it .. | 21:55 |
| hdworak | do you mind if I ask which org is it? :) | 21:56 |
| hdworak | out of sheer curiosity | 21:56 |
| ankitg | Berkman Center | 21:56 |
| hdworak | haven't heard about this one, are they new to GSoC? | 21:57 |
| ankitg | yep | 21:57 |
| ankitg | first year | 21:57 |
| hdworak | :) | 21:57 |
| hdworak | what do they do? graphics? networking? ...? | 21:58 |
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| ankitg | the project I am looking at involves semantic web, clustering and visualization ... | 21:59 |
| hdworak | sounds very interesting to me :) | 22:00 |
| hdworak | ankitg: well, you succeeded in applying to GSoC last year, there's no reason why you wouldn't make it this time | 22:01 |
| hdworak | ankitg: so you're not applying to cc, are you? | 22:02 |
| hdworak | I'm asking, 'cause I know it would be valuable to continue your last year project | 22:02 |
| hdworak | and I thought you could propose that | 22:02 |
| ankitg | haven't had much time to write down a good proposal ... if I don't make it in and have spare time, I can always work on it 'outside of GSoC' ... | 22:03 |
| hdworak | nathany, paulproteus: is anyone willing to pick this (= log analysis) up as their GSoC 2009 project? | 22:04 |
| paulproteus | No one's proposed it. | 22:05 |
| hdworak | nathany, paulproteus: are you, as cc, still interested in it? | 22:05 |
| paulproteus | Yeah, if there's a good application, we're definitely still interested in pursuing it. | 22:05 |
| nathany | what he said | 22:05 |
| hdworak | 'cause, in accordance with our previous discussions, I'd be more than happy to pick this up, if you say it is still relevant | 22:06 |
| paulproteus | I'd say propose it, and make it a good proposal. | 22:06 |
| hdworak | ankitg: would it be possible to see the details of your proposal (from the previous year) in order to write the one for this year? | 22:07 |
| paulproteus | We don't have a whole lot of excellent proposals yet (though we have a couple), and I'd love it if we had another excellent proposal. (-: | 22:08 |
| ankitg | hdworak: let me dig it up ... | 22:08 |
| hdworak | ankitg: I would be very grateful, that would make me ask less questions to the crew :) | 22:08 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: as far as I could tell from the IRC logs, lots of ppl concentrate on WP plug-ins, don't they? | 22:09 |
| paulproteus | Yup. | 22:10 |
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| hdworak | paulproteus: but then again, I haven't seen the log tool in the list of "open challenges" at your wiki, so this is why I've asked you whether it's still relevant | 22:11 |
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| paulproteus | And this is why we answer Yes. | 22:11 |
| paulproteus | Er, someone abruptly unplugged hdworak. | 22:11 |
| paulproteus | Spooky GSoC competition at a distance. | 22:11 |
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| ankitg | it wasn't me! | 22:13 |
| Sertmann | When reusing CC-attribution 1.0 licensed content in print, is it enough to write where a list of contributers can be found online, or do you have to provide names and aliases in a reference section in your publication? | 22:14 |
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| hdworak | whoa, a timeout! | 22:17 |
| nathany | Sertmann: "it depends" | 22:25 |
| nathany | actually i take that back | 22:26 |
| nathany | with 1.0 you probably need to list contributors | 22:26 |
| hdworak | ankitg: do you think you'll be able to find that proposal? | 22:27 |
| hdworak | I'm not asking to dig through 100 CDs :) | 22:27 |
| Sertmann | nathany... dammit I don | 22:32 |
| Sertmann | 't like "probably" :) | 22:32 |
| Sertmann | "reasonable to the means of the media" is damn vague... | 22:32 |
| nathany | Sertmann: how would you attribute a non CC licensed work you cited? | 22:33 |
| nathany | keep in mind we don't do legal advice or opinions (and IANAL) | 22:33 |
| Sertmann | no no, I just need some advice, and understand the IANAL deal... | 22:34 |
| ankitg | hdworak: it isn't where I thot it ought to be ... maybe the CC folks have a copy from the last time? | 22:34 |
| Sertmann | but i ran around the wiki and forums, and couldn't find any clear cut answer to this... | 22:34 |
| nathany | that phrase ("reasonable means") typically has been interpreted to mean you give attribution in the same place you would for other things; ie, the credits of a movie would be the appropriate place for film | 22:34 |
| nathany | Sertmann: unfortunately the 1.0 license doesn't have the "group attribution" clause that allows creators to say "attribute reuse to this group (or collective)" | 22:35 |
| Sertmann | well, that's not unfortunate in this case, for me anyway... | 22:36 |
| hdworak | ankitg: yes, paul\proteus had it, thanks for looking for it though, I appreciate that | 22:37 |
| hdworak | ankitg: and how's your living these days, buddy? still univ. and projects? | 22:38 |
| ankitg | hdworak: you are tempting me to reapply! | 22:38 |
| hdworak | ankitg: remember when I've told you that I'm taking a motorcycle course? :) nowadays I can drive a truck, too | 22:39 |
| hdworak | ankitg: awesome! | 22:39 |
| Sertmann | So, by your best guestimate, where in this case someone publising wikitravel content (which is licensed under CC-attribution 1.0) and sells printed guides, are (probably) required to attribute all contributers of the content? | 22:39 |
| ankitg | hdworak: could you send me a copy of my proposal =P | 22:39 |
| Sertmann | and not just state that a list of contributers can be found at http:/wikitravel.org/somewhere? | 22:40 |
| hdworak | ankitg: sure, man | 22:41 |
| * hdworak send the link on priv | 22:41 | |
| hdworak | "sends" even! | 22:41 |
| ankitg | hdworak: got it, thanks ... | 22:42 |
| ankitg | hdworak: will work with you on this, either way ... | 22:42 |
| hdworak | that's superb | 22:43 |
| hdworak | I'm gonna have a look at the work you've done and things you've written on CC Web site about the project | 22:43 |
| hdworak | plus your proposal, of course | 22:43 |
| ankitg | and I am going to go back on working on school project ... 6:43 am still in uni ... yay! | 22:45 |
| hdworak | LOL | 22:46 |
| hdworak | now that's crazy | 22:46 |
| hdworak | 46 mins past the midnight here | 22:47 |
| nathany | Sertmann: I'm not sure... there are examples of people selling printed guides so you could look at what they do. | 22:50 |
| nathany | my guess would be that you should list contributors, but it's just that, a complete guess | 22:50 |
| Sertmann | er.. im not the seller, im the contributer (and admin) from wikitravel ;) | 22:57 |
| Sertmann | but thanks for the opinion, been kinda surprised by this, I had always been under the impression that CC was fairly well organised, oh well, guess life would be boring without surprises. | 23:00 |
| paulproteus | Yeah, CC by-sa 1.0 is sort of tragic this way. )-: | 23:10 |
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| paulproteus | roflnathan ? | 23:13 |
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| paulproteus | nkinkade, syn | 23:28 |
| paulproteus | nkinkade, Did you prepare de so it's ready for my committing test? | 23:28 |
| paulproteus | Right, there was nothing to commit/update. | 23:32 |
| paulproteus | Strange. | 23:32 |
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| nkinkade | paulproteus: Hey. | 23:42 |
| nkinkade | Sorry, earlier I tried the svn up and nothing was updated so I just tried the commit again from Pootle and strangely it worked. | 23:43 |
| nkinkade | Then I went about doing what I needed to do. | 23:43 |
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| paulproteus | Yup. I just made a note in the bug about the fact that it only appears to work. )-: | 23:44 |
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| hdworak | paulproteus: who's in charge of http://code.creativecommons.org/svnroot/stats/ now? | 23:48 |
| hdworak | I see it's not moved to git, so I thought it might be inactive for the time being | 23:48 |
| hdworak | I can't see the dates in the Web SVN preview | 23:49 |
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| paulproteus | hdworak, It's active, just not super active, and it's maintained (sloppily) by me. | 23:51 |
| paulproteus | nkinkade, I'm writing up a response to your email about rebase. Summary: Yay. | 23:51 |
| hdworak | thanks | 23:51 |
| nkinkade | paulproteus: Yeah, I was pleasantly surprised when git-rebase --onto worked without error and in all of 5 seconds. | 23:52 |
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