Tuesday, 2009-03-31

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mtuheyas - this may be a common question, but i didn't find an FAQ entry:13:56
mtudoes it even make sense to use an NC license without SA? i'm thinking that someone might make a simple derivative work, release that himself and use it commercially13:57
mtuthat is to say: does an NC license need the SA to be effective?13:57
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mlinksvamtu: no14:01
mlinksvalicensee doesn't have to license work derived from by-nc under same license, but they still have to abide by terms -- can't use commercially14:02
mtuhmm. suppose they released the derivative work under the GFDL or something and a third person came along to use _that_ commercially. how is that prevented?14:03
mlinksvamtu: they couldn't release deriv under gfdl or one of the non-NC cc licenses14:07
mlinksvabecause doing so would grant more permissions than they have to grant14:07
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mlinksva(they don't have commercial permissions to grant, and fdl and the free CC licenses do grant commercial permissions)14:07
mtui see! so NC kind of "implies" SA, at least by its restrictions14:07
mlinksvathat's a needlessly confusing way of thinking about it14:08
mlinksvayou always have to abide by the terms of whatever license you're using a work under (modulo fair use)14:09
mlinksvaso for an NC work, you can't make commercial use14:09
mlinksvathat's separate from SA, which says you have to distribute under the same license14:09
mtuokay, what i wanted was to be sure that NC would be effective14:11
mtuthanks a lot :)14:11
mlinksvai guess you could say NC is like a half-assed (sorry) SA in that it severly restricts the downstream user's licensing choices, but otoh it doesn't mandate that they distribute under a public license at all.  NC just restricts a class of uses, and the licensing restrictions fall out of that14:11
mlinksvamtu: glad to help, but note I'm not a lawyer :)14:11
mtube glad, i think it's not easy ;-)14:13
mtuall right, so thanks again and seeyas!14:13
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haoyuhi nathany15:56
JanisBhello, i am about GSoC - is RDF plugin for WP "job" already taken?15:57
nathanyhi haoyu15:57
nkinkadeis this the same haoyu with monitor.(cc).org?15:57
nathanyJanisB: no decisions have been made... i can look and see if anyone has submitted a proposal15:58
haoyuyes it is :)15:58
nathany(of course, that wouldn't stop you from submitting one as well)15:58
nkinkadehaoyu: I'm installing the Flash extension now.15:59
JanisBwhere I can submit proposal?15:59
nathanyJanisB: i don't see one in the queue15:59
haoyuoh nkinkade, sorry I think I'm a bit confused, I was think nathany is you :p16:00
nathanyi'm not :)16:00
haoyunkinkade, thanks! :)16:01
haoyunathany, yep :)16:01
nkinkadehaoyu: we are both Nathan, but different last names. :-)16:01
haoyunkinkade, got it :)16:01
haoyunkinkade, I think the monitor.(cc).org site is up, but just the wiki can't be accessed. Maybe it is the mediawiki app is broken?16:04
nkinkadehaoyu: I seem to be able to access the site file ... how do you mean the wiki?16:05
nkinkadeEditing, etc?16:05
haoyuThat's strange, any page inside "http://monitor.creativecommons.org/" is can't access from me16:06
haoyumaybe I'm blocked??16:07
nkinkadehaoyu: http://monitor.creativecommons.org/Austria16:07
nkinkadeYou can't see that page?  Do you get an error of some sort or just a blank page?16:08
haoyunkinkade,  yes I can't see, and there's no error, it is just loading...16:08
haoyunkinkade, i'm using firefox16:08
haoyubut I can access this: http://a7.creativecommons.org/apache2-default/16:09
haoyuand when I ping monitor.(cc).org it do has response16:09
nkinkadehaoyu: Try http://monitor.creativecommons.org:8080/Austria16:10
nkinkadeThat bypasses the HTTP accelerator.16:10
haoyunkinkade, I can access http://monitor.creativecommons.org/Austria by wget16:11
haoyunkinkade, but just can't access it from firefox..16:11
haoyualso can't access http://monitor.creativecommons.org:8080/Austria from firefox16:11
ankitghaoyu: it works fine for me (using firefox)16:11
nathanyworks fine for me, too (Fx 3.1b3)16:12
haoyumust be some problem of my firefox16:12
nkinkadehaoyu:  Hmm.  Not sure what to say ... do you have any funny proxy setup in Firefox?16:12
ankitgI see "by 281,840 35.76% " ect on the Argentina page16:12
haoyuankitg, yes that's you'd expected to see16:13
ankitghaoyu: yep, so as I said, it seems to be working fine in firefox at my end16:13
ankitghaoyu: side-tracking a bit, have you looked into visualizations yet? I'll have some time at the end of the week and could help a bit there if you haven't got to that part yet. =)16:15
JanisBnkinkade, about RDF plugin - is somewhere examples, how final product should looks like?...16:16
nkinkadeJanisB: I think maybe you are looking for nathany.16:16
nathanyJanisB: you mean RDFa in WP?16:17
JanisBops, sry :>16:17
JanisBnathany, yes16:17
haoyuankitg, I haven't do that yet. I just have tried to figure out how to do it16:17
nathanyJanisB: you mean examples of how the XHTML should look?16:17
nathanythat'd depend entirely on what metadata an author included16:17
nathanywe haven't done any mockups of the visual editor, etc... it's pretty open ended16:18
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JanisBnathany, so RDF should be generated automatically for each new blog post?16:19
ankitghaoyu: okie, get your wiki viewing problem solved first. If you're still just starting out by Friday evening, We could look at it together or distribute the workload ...16:19
haoyuankitg, that would be great, thanks! :)16:19
nathanyJanisB: it should provide an interface which allows authors to add RDFa to their posts16:19
nathanysupporting a few core vocabularies by default (dublin core, etc)16:20
nathanybut allowing users to specify any predicate they wish to insert16:20
JanisBbut all this metadata will be added by authors not by AI of plugin, correct?16:20
nathanyJanisB: the RDFa primer may be userful (http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-rdfa-primer/)16:20
nathanyJanisB: yes16:20
SterenJanisB, nathany : Hi, if you want to inspire you fromSemanticMediaWiki, there is the HAlo extension to add semantic data into text : http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Halo_Extension16:20
JanisBthanks god :)16:20
SterenJanisB, nathany : fot the HALO extension of SemanticMediaWiki, I suggest you just to watch the demo : http://www.ontoprise.de/smwdemo/16:26
haoyunkinkade, could you see the logs at server side and help to figure out why I'm blocked ( It seems the site blocked just my firefox browser..)16:26
haoyualso, could you try to access this and see what happen: http://monitor.creativecommons.org/File:Cc.png16:26
JanisBSteren, i'll see it, thank you16:26
haoyuI got an "Database error"16:26
nkinkadehaoyu: Let me check the logs.16:29
JanisBby the way, i got an error too: MySQL returned error "1205: Lock wait timeout exceeded; try restarting transaction (localhost)".16:29
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haoyunkinkade, My ip is, FYI16:29
nkinkadehaoyu: Try to access this page again: http://monitor.creativecommons.org/Austria16:30
haoyunkinkade, opening the link in firefox now16:31
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nkinkadehaoyu: Interestingly I see your request with tcpdump, but not in the Apache logs for that site.16:34
nkinkadeThe conversations seems to have been cut short.16:34
nkinkadehaoyu: Can you try to access a few more pages and to refresh, etc.16:35
nkinkadeI'm going to capture the tcpdump output in a file and look at it with wireshark ... in the terminal it's mostly unprintable characters so I can't really see what's going on.16:35
nkinkadeYou tried to fetch File:CC.png, /Austria and recent changes, correct?16:37
haoyuI'm accessing the 'Hong_Kong' and Austria16:37
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haoyuI think File:cc.png and recent changes is several minutes ago16:38
nkinkadehaoyu: I can send you the capture file if you want.  It would appear that you connect, request a page, a7 acks your request and then nothing comes back from you.16:41
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nkinkadehaoyu: Do you have SSH to some remote server?16:42
nkinkade(SSH access, I mean)16:43
haoyunkinkade, yes I have, but then?16:43
nkinkadeIf so, you might try something like:16:43
haoyuthat's really strange...16:43
nkinkade$ ssh -N -L 8888:monitor.creativecommons.org:80 <remote host>16:44
nkinkadeThen in Firefox try to access http://localhost:8888/Austria16:44
nkinkadeI'm curious if there is something broken about your ISP or some proxy they are using or the NAT, etc.16:45
nkinkadeThis other way will tunnel the request through SSH, which should bypass your current provider for the request.16:46
haoyunkinkade, yes, but the problem is, I can access it at my local side using IE, and wget16:46
haoyubut just can't work on Firefox..16:46
ankitgmaybe it's a firefox extension that's gone haywire ...16:47
nathanynkinkade: does this look correct to you?16:48
nkinkadenathany: Yeah, that looks good ... at least in term so that issue with "License"16:49
nkinkadeThe first part reads correctly.16:49
haoyunkinkade, seems it is caused by upgrading of my system (or firefox), let me see if it can be fixed by just restart firefox..16:49
nathanywhen you regenerated licenselocale.xsl it picked up your change16:50
nkinkadenathany: I'm not even sure what licenselocale.xsl does. :-)16:50
nathanyi'm going to go ahead and close the issue (I don't see it in as conclusive a way with any other locale)16:50
nathanynkinkade: it contains all the generated localizations for license selections16:50
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haoyunkinkade, it would be my firefox broken (strange, but I can use that firefox access other sites meanwhile)16:51
haoyunkinkade, sorry to waste you a lot of time!16:51
nkinkadehaoyu: No problem.  You may have seen the email, but the Flash extension is installed and you should be able to upload *.xml files now.16:52
haoyuthanks nkinkade !!! :)16:54
nkinkadehaoyu: My pleasure ... thank you for helping to organize the monitor site!16:55
haoyuoh, but I think there's still problem for this: http://monitor.creativecommons.org/File:Cc.png16:57
nkinkadehaoyu: yeah, that seems to hang for me too and now I can't access the main page.  I did and upgrade as well, and it wanted me to reboot.  Just to eliminate that possiblity, though unlikely, I'm going to reboot.17:02
haoyunkinkade, seems it treated this as a wiki page but not a static file: http://monitor.creativecommons.org/Images/6/64/World.swf17:02
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haoyuwow, that's cool...17:03
haoyufirefox upgrade caused access problem...17:04
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ankitgYep with FF 3.8 I get "No file by this name exists, but you can upload one." for File:CC.png but File:Cc.png just does nothing for a long while and then throws a DB error ...17:06
ankitgDatabase error17:07
ankitgA database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was:17:07
ankitg    (SQL query hidden)17:07
ankitgfrom within function "". MySQL returned error "1205: Lock wait timeout exceeded; try restarting transaction (localhost)".17:07
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nkinkadehaoyu: I'm getting a MySQL error when I try to access File:Cc.png17:12
nkinkadeankitg: What you said. :-)17:12
nkinkadeSorry, didn't read your post before I wrote.17:12
haoyuAslo, should this be linked to the file I upload: http://monitor.creativecommons.org/Images/6/64/World.swf17:13
haoyubut seems it is treated as a wiki page17:13
ankitghaoyu: you probably need to create a div container and ember the flash there ...17:13
ankitg*embed even17:14
haoyubut you should able to get this file atleast.. I think17:14
nkinkadeThe <flash></flash> tags don't work?17:14
nkinkadeIt looks like  rewrite error.17:15
nkinkadeIt's getting passed to index.php ... notice how the I in image gets capitalized.17:15
nkinkadeLet me check on that.17:15
ankitghaoyu: the file is here :: http://monitor.creativecommons.org/File:World.swf17:15
ankitghaoyu: try using the <flash> tags as suggested to use the flash plugin to embed this into a wiki page17:16
ankitgnkinkade: the file is here :: http://monitor.creativecommons.org/File:World.swf17:17
haoyucould you really see that file by this link?17:17
ankitgWorld.swf‎  (file size: 174 KB, MIME type: application/x-shockwave-flash)17:18
haoyuThat's the wiki page of the file, but not the really file I think17:18
nkinkadehaoyu: Sorry, I had a bad RewriteCond rule ... try again: http://monitor.creativecommons.org/images/6/64/World.swf17:18
haoyuWhen you click the World.swf link, you dont' accually get the file17:18
ankitghaoyu: oh here then :: http://monitor.creativecommons.org/images/6/64/World.swf17:18
haoyuyes now it works :)17:18
nkinkadeBut there is definitely something still broken about File:Cc.png17:20
haoyuEverytime I am tring to upload an image file the firefox will hang on the monitor site...17:26
haoyuand then restart firefox solve this...17:27
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JanisBnathany, correct me if i am wrong - RDF plugin should provide new fields (aka interface) in blog-post management window and after commiting changes regenerate site.rdf file, which contains semantic information about all entities in blog. Fields for site.rdf descriptions and it's values can be either selected from early-created vocabularies or added manually by authors.17:35
nathanyJanisB: no17:36
nathanyit's RDFa (the "a" is important)17:36
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nathanyit should allow authors to embed metadata in the XHTML they author17:36
nathanyso it's an extension to the text editor specifically17:37
nathany(not new fields)17:37
nkinkadehaoyu: I removed the Cc.png file and it's page.17:37
nkinkadeIt would seem as if there were some hung MySQL threads that had a lock on that table row for the CC.png page.17:38
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nkinkadeBefore it wouldn't even let me delete the row from the table.  I killed the mysql thread (didn't know about mysql> KILL before!) and it seemed to fix it.17:38
haoyuso could I try to upload an image again?17:39
haoyuis the probelm caused by the problematic rewrite?17:40
nkinkadehaoyu: It shouldn't be.  I fixed the rewrite rule about 30 minutes ago.17:41
haoyunkinkade, I tried to upload image and it hang again17:41
JanisBnathany, but there's not so many possible fields available in every post - author/title/text/post date/tags/smth. else and that's all... Or an idea is to implement new BB-style codes in editor to markup significant parts of post and therefore generate RDF-attributes for "upstream" XHTML tags?17:43
nathanyJanisB: no, not BB-style codes... ideally I think there'd be a button like the hyperlink button that let's you either insert new metadata-enhanced text or modifies the selected text17:44
nkinkadehaoyu: I'm going to step out for a minute to get lunch.  I'll look at it in a while.17:44
nathanythe interface would let you select what the predicate is (hence the "easy", pre-defined vocabularies)17:45
nathanyand insert it in the editor with XHTML+RDFa17:45
haoyunkinkade, okey it's fine. however we don't need image uploading so much. :p17:45
nathanythis should be straight forward with the straight up XHTML editor; making it "pretty" in the visual editor will probably be much more difficult17:45
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JanisBI think it is possible to highlight (e.g. change background) different pieces of text that represents predicates, because it is not RDF tags by themselves, it is just "patched" version of XHTML...17:50
JanisBand then each highlighted entry will have it's own attributes to describe predicate17:51
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* paulproteus waves18:12
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Bovinitynathany: mlinksva: mixt greens?19:07
nathanyBovinity: sure19:07
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paulproteusnathany, Possibly chat on the phone re: interns?19:12
cristihello nathany19:21
cristihello everyone19:21
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paulproteusHello cristi.19:28
paulproteushaoyu, Can you try doing the upload via an SSH tunnel?19:29
paulproteusI wonder if there's some evil network monkeying in the middle.19:29
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paulproteusnathany, Let me know if you're around (and also possibly phoneable)20:13
paulproteusOtherwise I'll give you my thoughts about interns by email, which is okay.20:13
JanisBnathany, I am writing proposal for this RDFa plugin. Should I write something in "feedback on #cc" field?20:19
nathanyJanisB: you can write that you've spoken to nathany there. Maybe include your nic so I remember who you are.20:21
nathanypaulproteus: just got back from lunch20:22
nathanyi can call if you like20:22
paulproteusI think that'd be easier for me to be expressive on and to see what you're thinking on, if it's not too much trouble.20:23
paulproteusJust ring my cell in e.g. 60s?20:23
nkinkadenathany: Should the string deed.moralrights-remix.us apply to other licenses other than the US?21:08
nkinkadeIt seems to apply.21:08
nathanynkinkade: i don't remember; what seems wrong to you?21:08
nathanywe have deed.moralrights that's the default, -remix.us only applies in certain circumstances, i think21:09
nkinkadeThere's something funny on the Thai By Deed:21:09
nkinkadeThat part has the wrong string.21:09
nkinkadeI'm looking to see if somehow something happened in the PO file.21:09
nathanythat's all in thai21:09
nathanyare you referring to the email from the other night?21:10
nkinkadeBut there's a link.21:10
nathanyso both are growing links21:10
nkinkadeThe link doesn't appear in the other's I've seen.21:10
nkinkadeAh, that's something new?  The link, that is.21:10
nathanybecause they haven't regenerated (or updated their i18n)21:10
nathanythis is more pain from my merging stuff21:10
nathanyso if you can just override deed.moralright in the th catalog we can regenerate and move on (i think)21:11
nathanyi think the string you want is deed.moralrights21:11
nathanynkinkade: does that make sense?21:12
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nathanypaulproteus: what does the pootle precommit do again?21:14
nkinkadenathany: Somewhat.  But who hasn't regenerated?21:15
nkinkadeThey regenerated themselves via Pootle?21:15
nathanynkinkade: i mean the other deeds21:15
paulproteusIt runs the po2cc21:15
nathanyso they haven't got the updated strings21:15
nathanypaulproteus: oh... so postcommit just updates staging and restarts zope?21:16
nathanysorry, i was confused21:16
nathanydefinitely precommit then21:16
nkinkadenathany: So the Thai Deed as far as you can tell is fine.21:16
nkinkadeThat part should in fact have a link to the FAQ?21:17
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nathanynkinkade: the construction of the sentence changed as well so probably not (i don't read thai)21:18
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nathanynkinkade: i can go ahead and update/regenerate21:18
nathanythat might be easier :)21:19
nkinkadenathany: Maybe, I'm slightly confused for some reason.21:20
nathanywell, it's confusing21:20
nathany(and thai)21:20
nkinkadenathany: FYI, I've been working with Victor for the last 2 hours getting PHP upgraded to version 5 for mixter.21:20
nathanynkinkade: ugh21:20
nkinkadeOn an old CentOS box it hasn't been totally as easy as with Debian.21:20
nkinkadeHad to abandon a compiled version of Apache 2.2.3 and go to using the system version
nathanywhy were we helping?21:21
nathany(just curious)21:21
nkinkadeAnyway, just wanted to let you know that's what I've been up to.21:21
nkinkadenathany: Are we not supposed to be doing that?21:21
nathanyeh, mixter is almost absolute zero on the priority list21:22
nathanyit's fine but it's a total sinkhole21:22
nkinkadeAh.  Well, it all had to with Victor wanting to implement OpenID, but needed PHP5 for that.21:22
nkinkadeAnyway, it's pretty much done.  He's just ironing our a few kinks.21:22
nathanyok, cool21:22
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Bovinitynathany: some intently made tweaks/progress to the cc wp theme:
nathanyi generally like -- not sure i 100% love the full horizontal bars between sections but looks great overall21:38
nathanyBovinity: ^^21:38
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mlinksvaBovinity: sidebar link to 100m blog post is missing /entry in path23:03
Bovinityah, bugger.23:04
Bovinityon it23:04
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nathanysvn up23:38
nathanynkinkade: have we been using trunk for license.rdf for... a long time on production?23:38
nathanythat doesn't sound right to me for some reason23:38
nathanybut i won't swear that it hasn't always been the case23:39
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