Monday, 2009-03-30

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geek745anyone online interested in the cc enhancement to wordpress media manager?04:18
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cristihello again16:00
cristiis there any mentor for the google summer of code on?16:01
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cristidoes any one care to talk about some project proposed for GSoC?16:13
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nathanyhi cristi16:17
nathanyi can answer questions :)16:17
cristihi nathany16:18
cristii was thinking about what you said last night16:18
cristiand it came to me that I could actualy implement an ontology16:18
cristithat would define the relations between contents introduced in the blog16:18
nathanycristi: is this for OOo or WordPress? (i answered questions about both)16:18
nathanyso an ontology that...16:19
cristimeaning the plugin could check that the content submited and marked with some licence is compatible with the licence used by the curent user16:20
nathanyyou mean, for example, for an image that they embed, making sure it's compatible with the text contents?16:20
cristiand with the licence under wich the ser wold want to publish his work16:21
nathanythat might be interesting16:22
nathanyi say might because the line between what'16:22
nathanywhat's a derivative and what's a collection isn't always clear to me, so i wouldn't want something that enforced some behavior on users16:22
nathany(collections don't engage the behavior in licenses triggered by derivative works -- share alike, etc)16:23
cristiif i understand correctly (legal stuff isn't my domain), even if a photo is under a propretary licence, but the user modifes it, the modified picture would not be under propretary licence16:25
nathanywell the user could only modify it if the license gives them permission to16:25
cristiin that case i don't understand the line with de collections and derivative works16:26
nathanyif I have a photo under BY-NC-SA and I want to set it to music, that creates a derivative and I have to license the result under BY-NC-SA16:27
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nathanyif I just publish it in a newspaper alongside an article, that's a collection and the paper doesn't have to be licensed (although they do have to attribute me)16:27
nathanyin both cases the license gives permission to be redistributed and reused in certain circumstances (IANAL either, FWIW)16:28
cristinow i understand16:28
cristibut let's say the ontology doesn't forbid you to use the pucture16:28
cristibut jest give you a warning16:28
nathanyand how does it determine when to give the warning?16:29
cristiand some link to the legal explination where the user could make the decision under which category it resides16:29
cristithe ontology would be built considering that in the case there may be some way in which a content would be modifiable and some way in which it can't16:30
cristithe relation would only consider the constraining part16:31
cristi(it can be forbiden)16:31
nathanythat sounds possibly interesting, I think I'd need to see a more complete proposal to give really concrete feedback16:32
nathanythere are a few things floating in here of interest16:32
nathany* RDFa in WP16:32
nathany* mixing licenses around media -- how do they interact with the user16:32
cristibut also give a link to the paragraph's that explain in which cases it can be made publical16:32
nathany* storing license information with the media manage16:32
cristimy proposal would be to implement the RDFa in WP16:33
nathanygreat :)16:34
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cristibut after some talk and thinking on this i got this ideea about the ontology that I wanted to talk whith some one and implement it along side with the plugin16:34
nathanyright... i think that could be a nice addition :)16:34
cristithat is, include it in my proposal16:34
cristibut i't still not clear to me if it can be done16:35
cristiand if so, which is the best way to do it16:35
cristifrom what you told me there are at least 3 cases of conflict16:36
cristiwarnings! : licences COULD not be compatible16:36
cristierrors: licences ARE not compatible16:36
nathanycristi: i think that this also assumes we know the license of the images, etc16:36
nathanythere's lots of interesting and helpful things to build before we worry about the ontology16:37
nathanylike just extending the media manager to support specifying license information16:37
nathany(and then presumably including attribution + metadata when you insert something from the media managed)16:37
cristiok i'll give it a rest for a while16:37
nathanythat'd be a great feature, and wouldn't require thinking about the ontology (but you could build the ontology on it)16:37
nathanyok :)16:38
nathanyi'm really happy you're thinking about these things16:38
cristiwhen you say media managed, what are you talking about?16:39
cristiWordPress Media Manager?16:40
nathanysince you can pull in photos, video, etc and then insert them into your posts16:41
nathanypresumably adding license information there would be the first step to "bigger" things16:42
cristibut this imports don't come with meta information isn't is right?16:42
cristii mean, how can you know what licences to add?16:42
cristithis isn't yet clear to me16:43
nathanyright, you'd have to ask the user... alternately you could imagine creating an "import" interface that asks for a web page URL and then lets the user import one or more images that's contained in that page16:44
nathanyand reads the metadata from the containing page16:44
cristihmm might work16:46
cristiwith a colaboratibe effort throught the web16:46
cristiI could ask the user, when he inserts new content through Paste method where did they got them16:49
cristiand let them imput a URL from where to get the licence16:49
cristithis would enable to fill the meta even for text, and not only media16:51
cristifrom my experience Paste is 70% used to import content16:52
cristimaybe let the user to edit the page but remember what content was Pasted or imported and when pressing Publish to ask him where did he get each and every one (spellcheck-er style)16:54
cristi(this would help in avoiding annoying pop-ups all the time)16:54
cristiwhat do you think?16:55
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nathanycristi: that might work -- it'd be important to test the UI and see if people found it annoying17:13
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cristihmm... maybe I can convince my university to accept this as a project for the GUI class17:46
cristiand have use the results in the word press plugin17:47
cristinathany: can you tell me who can I get my proposal reviewed before submitting to goole?17:49
nathanycristi: just email it to me (nathan at creativecommons dot org) or the cc-devel mailing list17:50
cristiok great :)17:50
cristifrom what I learned I managed to structure the development of the plugin as follows:17:51
cristi1. plugin for mce editor (button to be included in the editor)17:52
cristi2. install script to include the plugin in the right place in the wordpress distribution17:52
cristi3. effective WP plugin to include the MCE plugin in the edit toolbar17:53
cristi4. background coloring functions to highlight the different portions of the content registered under different licences17:54
cristi5. test the plugin for different distros of WP17:57
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cristias soon as I cand get mai MCE plugin POC done I should be able to make some accurate schedulle and send you a complete project application17:58
cristithis will be tonight or tomorrow morning I guess17:58
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mlinksvanathany Bovinity curry?19:03
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Blackholdcould someone help me please?19:06
Blackholdwich font is used to create creative commons words and symbols?19:06
BovinityBlackhold: we have an icons font --
Blackholdgreat :D19:09
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BlackholdBovinity: buf exactly which ttf font is?19:16
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Blackhold'cause I would like to create a game19:16
Blackholda didactic game19:16
cristithat's interesting19:16
Blackholdbut I haven't all the words :(19:16
cristiwanna share?19:16
Blackholdwe will translate it to various languages :)19:17
Blackhold<- more info, check for 404 link19:17
Blackholdyou have to sort the different licences19:18
Blackholdat restrictive order19:18
BlackholdI would like to introduce also copyright and copyleft licenses19:18
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Blackholdand this font does not contain any copyleft or copyright symbol19:19
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Blackholdso that I need to know wich font was used to creative commons logo19:20
cristiis it though possible to an exact ordering19:20
cristi*to do19:20
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Blackholdcristi: any idea where I could find this info?19:21
cristiwell i'm a new comer myself and can't help with this one unfortunately19:21
cristibut i can do a googel search for you19:21
cristimaybe I can find something useful19:22
BlackholdI was searching a little bit19:22
Blackholdbut with no the words that could give me to the answer19:22
BovinityBlackhold: ahh, i see, the CC logo is set in Akzidenz Grotesk Bold19:24
Blackholdgonna see19:24
Blackholduh! that's not a free font...19:24
Bovinityno, unfortunately not19:25
Blackholdthat's a pitty :(19:26
cristican't you import a logo and make your own font?19:27
cristiI there are a couple of sites that let you create fonts19:27
cristi*I see19:27
Blackholdgonna try downloading from torrent19:29
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cristidon't tell anyone :P19:32
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Blackholdgot it19:36
Blackholdis in berhold font collection19:36
Blackholdhere you have if you are interested19:37
nkinkadenathany: For the po/es* files, am I looking for a literal duplicate of license.selected?19:41
nathanyno, you're looking for the extra word "License" in the translated string19:41
nathanydoes that make sense?19:41
nkinkadenathany: Sorry, I just didn't read the issue. :-)19:42
nkinkadeIt's a pretty dumb feeling I've got now.19:42
Bovinitypaulproteus: PING19:46
paulproteusBovinity, pong19:46
Bovinitypaulproteus: i'm looking at this OpenEd bullets issue.... i don't see any li tags on the Definition page..... am i blind?19:47
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paulproteusBovinity, Hah, lemme see.19:47
paulproteusEr, something crazy happened.19:48
paulproteusWeren't there columns?19:48
* paulproteus takes a look19:48
paulproteusOh, nm, Definition is "third level page"19:48
paulproteusI just made a test page locally for that stuff.19:49
paulproteus has some bullets.19:49
Bovinityindeed, with improper left margin19:50
paulproteusRight-o. My lame attempts to fix this are lame.19:53
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nkinkadenathany:  Just to be sure.  Should I be removing the "License" word part from the English string as well?  Seems like it shouldn't be there.20:02
nathanynkinkade: no, just in msgstr20:02
nathanyi guess i may not have been clear20:02
nathanyit's only in the spanish strings where it's duplicated20:02
nathanyfor example, i think es/ says "licensia ... License"20:02
nathanyor am I still misunderstanding the issue? :)20:03
nathany${country_name} will always be blank20:03
nathany${license_pretty_name} wil be something like "Attribution 3.0 Spain"20:03
nkinkadenathany: The "License${country_name}" was throwing me.20:04
nkinkadeIt seems as if ${country_name} isn't ever used.20:04
nathanyit used to be, isn't any more20:04
nkinkadeAt least not for that string.20:04
nathanywe'll remove it but it's a bit of a pain in the tass20:04
nkinkadeSo I was confused when I was that in the English.20:04
nathanysorry about that20:05
nkinkadeNo problem.  Just didn't want to be removing things I shouldn't and vice versa.20:05
nkinkadeI'll just fix up the msgstr part, but leave the ${country_name} in there.20:05
greg-gall: I just received confirmation that Canonical is sponsoring me to go to UDS in Spain (May 25th-29th), let me know what ideas/proposals you want me to, um, propose.20:09
* paulproteus fully expects to pay his own way to Debconf in Spain (-:20:10
paulproteusgreg-g, In all seriousness I will keep that in mind.20:10
greg-gpaulproteus: email me whatever thoughts you have20:11
Bovinitypaulproteus: my list fix appears far more elegant than yours.. i wonder if i'm missing some edge cases20:18
paulproteusI imagine you're not.20:19
paulproteusI just hacked at random basically.20:19
Bovinityoh,  i see the slider alignment issue...20:26
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nkinkadepaulproteus: Just to make sure I didn't miss anything, with the new Pootle setup do you know of any changes to deploying jurisdictions?20:40
nkinkadeFor example, editing i18n/trunk/master/cc_org.po?20:41
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nkinkadenathany: Anything I need to know about license_xsl with recent changes?  I got a error from ./bin/licenses, so I re-builtout, but am still getting an error: IndexError: list index out of range21:25
nkinkadeMaybe I've missed a step, it's been a while since I deployed a jurisdiciton.21:26
nathanynkinkade: uh... not that i know of; i've been having to remove Arabic manually since it was borked but that may be fixed now that you just re-ran po2cc21:26
nathanynkinkade: but i don't think arabic would impact ./bin/licenses21:27
nathanycan you pastebin the traceback?21:27
nkinkadenathany:  nevermind.   I somehow failed to add the jurisdiction code as the last argument.  Sorry for the noise.21:27
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nathanyglad that's all it was :)21:28
nkinkadeMe too. :-)21:28
nkinkadeWhen I report errors, there's about a 50% chance it was user error ... my error, that is.21:28
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nkinkadenathany:  Getting this error: An error exists in i18n/licenselocale.xsl.tmp: ... line 9808: Extra content at the end of the document.21:46
nkinkadeBut there doesn't appear to be anything stray at the end of the document.21:47
nkinkadeIs it an innocuous warning?21:47
nathanynkinkade: remove i18n/ar21:49
nkinkadenathany: Just rm -rf i18n/ar ?21:52
nathanynkinkade: yes21:53
nkinkadenathany: Thanks. :-)21:54
nathanysure :)21:54
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Bovinityit's it22:17
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paulproteusQuality code as seen on the State of Delaware's legislature portal:22:28
paulproteusfunction myfun(){22:28
paulproteus(e.g. )22:29
Bovinitystate of delaware just wants to have fun?22:30
nkinkadenathany:  All is safe to generated Deeds with the new cc.engine, right?22:32
nathanynkinkade: yes22:32
nkinkadeA week or two ago you asked me to hold off.22:32
nkinkadeJust being 100% sure you got whatever fixed up.22:33
nathanydo you remember why?22:33
nathanyOH SHIT22:33
nathanyFUCK FUCK FUCK22:33
nkinkadeIt had to do with regenerating HK, and you said that some things from dev had slipped through.22:33
nkinkadeAnd to *not* generate deeds until that was fixed.22:33
nathanynkinkade: you are correct22:34
nathanyshit, let me look at that template22:34
nathanynkinkade: i'm teasing that apart now22:48
nathanynkinkade: you should be good to go23:02
nkinkadenathany: Thanks.  I'll svn up and generate deeds.23:02
nathany(svn up)23:02
nkinkadeNow I've got a new issue: KeyError: 'xml.sax.drivers2.drv_pyexpat'23:02
nkinkadeFor ./imagespalt23:02
nkinkade(you get the idea)23:02
nathanycan you pastebin your command line + full traceback?23:02
nathanynkinkade: you should probably do a quick eyeball of the generated deed to make sure it's sane... if there are things that could be better we can regen later, but... whatever23:05
nathanyi also suggest just doing the Thai jurisdiction instead of doing the whole language for all deeds23:05
nkinkadeI'll take a look at the Deeds once they are ready.23:05
nkinkadeYeah, I'm doing -j th23:06
nkinkadeOne thing I've discovered is that we should probably be adding the country.<code> and lang.<code> way in advance.23:06
nkinkadeBecause now those strings are untranslated for the launch.23:07
nkinkadeMeaning that Thai shows up as "Thai" in the list of available languages ... not a big deal, but not ideal.23:07
nkinkadeIt's also seems as if there might be changes to Thai in Pootle that weren't commited.23:10
nathanynkinkade: i concur re: lang and country23:10
nathanywrt uncommitted changes, tough shit23:10
nkinkadenathany: I see that there are quite a lot of uncommitted changes.  Should I just let that go for now, as you suggest? :-)23:11
nathanynkinkade: looking23:11
nkinkadeThe chooser has a good bit of English scattered around and I imagine that most of that is filled in by the uncommitted changes.23:12
nathanyi guess we haven't made it 100% explicit that they need to commit23:12
nkinkadeThis is why 8 or 9 hours advance notice won't do.23:12
nathanyi know23:12
nathanyi mean, you can argue that we should have been paying attention to staff updates, but wtf23:12
nathanycan you please commit?23:13
nkinkadeWhen Michelle informed me that they needed to be ready by morning of Tuesday Thai time, it was already 12:30AM Tuesday in Thailand.23:13
nkinkadeI'll commit the changes, stop the Deed generation, then redo it.23:13
nathanythanks :) you may need to regen licenselocale.xsl as well -- i see changes in the metadata strings23:13
nathanythanks for handling this as well, i do appreciate it23:14
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mib_83nrmbHi, does anyone know how to fix this? When I add a new user, I get the error message "Please enter correct verification number."23:20
mib_83nrmbHere's a snapshot of the problem,
nathanymib_83nrmb: is there some creative commons aspect to that? it looks like a wordpress issue23:21
cristiit's a virus23:23
cristidon't follow the link23:23
mib_83nrmbwhat? my link?23:23
mib_83nrmbits just a snapshot23:23
cristioh sorry23:23
cristiI was just talking about a fileinfector23:23
cristion wordpress with some one23:24
mib_83nrmbwhat do you reccomend i do?23:24
nathanymib_83nrmb: this is the creative commons channel23:24
cristiand I saw you posted there also23:24
nathanywe don't do wordpress support23:24
mib_83nrmbyeah, but none of the 190 people on wordpress are active...23:24
nathanythat doesn't mean we know how to help you23:24
mib_83nrmbdo you?23:24
mib_83nrmboh, thanks then23:25
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nkinkadeThat was a great exchange.23:27
nkinkadeCommitting those uncommitted translations for Thai really was needed.  Filled all the gaps.23:27
nkinkadenathany:  Was there anything about imgsplat that jumped out at you?23:30
nathanynkinkade: yeah, i can see what the problem is, trying to track down the cause23:32
nathanyone secone23:32
nathanynkinkade: images spaltting23:35
nathanybut... no th?23:36
nkinkadeSorry.   I haven't merged the RDF to production yet.23:36
nathanyoh, phew23:36
nkinkadeI can do that now.23:36
nathanyso i manually tweaked the generated scrtipt23:36
nkinkadeAs long as it's working, then I can imgsplat in a few minutes.23:36
nathanynot sure why it included a weird path...23:36
nkinkadeThanks for looking into that.23:36
nkinkadeI feel somewhat helpless with most of these tools.23:37
nathanyi'm heading out to walk the dog, text/call if you run into things...23:37
nkinkadeWhen a python exception occurs, that is.23:37
nkinkadeWill do.  I think it's pretty much ready, though.23:37
nathanythank you23:37
nkinkadeTalk to you tomorrow.23:37
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