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| paulproteus | Curiously, I am awake. | 12:26 |
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| johndoigiii | nkinkade: I am getting 503's on both the wiki and the issue tracker when I try to post content | 14:30 |
| johndoigiii | 503's include a message from Varnish | 14:31 |
| johndoigiii | "Guru Meditation" | 14:31 |
| nkinkade | johndoigiii: Let me take a look. | 14:32 |
| johndoigiii | okay thanks | 14:32 |
| johndoigiii | it only happens when I POST data it seems | 14:33 |
| nkinkade | johndoigiii: It seems to be working for me. | 14:33 |
| nkinkade | Oh, only when you POST? | 14:33 |
| johndoigiii | yeah | 14:33 |
| nkinkade | Are you trying to upload a file? | 14:33 |
| johndoigiii | no | 14:33 |
| nkinkade | Just updating an article? | 14:33 |
| johndoigiii | 2 instances so far, I am trying to update the Staff Weekly Call wiki page and also when I try to add a text comment to issue174 | 14:34 |
| johndoigiii | or any issue for that matter | 14:34 |
| nkinkade | johndoigiii: Are you using paulproteus' special page to update that page? | 14:34 |
| * paulproteus blinks | 14:34 | |
| johndoigiii | no, I'm not | 14:34 |
| johndoigiii | using the wiki edit page | 14:35 |
| johndoigiii | should I be using paulproteus' ? | 14:35 |
| nkinkade | I don't know anything about that page or if it's helpful or necessary to edit it through the page paulproteus setup. | 14:35 |
| paulproteus | The link I send out in the weekly staff call emails? | 14:35 |
| paulproteus | It's just a link to a built-in, somewhat-unknown MW feature. | 14:35 |
| nkinkade | <http://teamspace.creativecommons.org/index.php?action=edit§ion=new&title=Weekly_Staff_Call%2F2009-03-18> | 14:35 |
| johndoigiii | ohh sorry, I've been neglecting that second link and just editting the page in the first link | 14:36 |
| paulproteus | Yup, section=new is the built-in MW feature. | 14:36 |
| nkinkade | I always use that link to update the staff call page. I've never tried to edit the Staff call page directly, though I it seems reasonable to think that you could. | 14:36 |
| paulproteus | Regardless of where you POST from, POST should not require Guru meditation. | 14:36 |
| paulproteus | It's totally fine to edit it yourself; I typically do actually. | 14:37 |
| johndoigiii | yeah, this page is doing it as well for me | 14:37 |
| johndoigiii | same error | 14:37 |
| johndoigiii | let me try clearing any cookies, if its just me this happening to | 14:38 |
| nkinkade | johndoigiii: I just successfully edited the page. | 14:38 |
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| nkinkade | Seems that it must be something on your end??? | 14:38 |
| johndoigiii | hmm, it must be a cookie/cache, lemme clear | 14:38 |
| paulproteus | johndoigiii, I personally found that in the past, my ISP in Japan used to sometimes corrupt POST messages. | 14:39 |
| paulproteus | It sounds totally bonkers, but it was the only explanation. | 14:40 |
| paulproteus | Well, that, or me misconfiguring multi-homing. | 14:40 |
| paulproteus | But anyway. | 14:40 |
| johndoigiii | lol, well let me pull up wireshark then | 14:40 |
| johndoigiii | yeah deleting my cookies was unsuc | 14:40 |
| johndoigiii | this is the second day this has been happening for me | 14:41 |
| paulproteus | Well if you're sending something correct and the server is receiving it wrong (e.g. due to a broken transparent HTTP proxy on the wire) your wireshark won't see it. | 14:41 |
| paulproteus | I'd be curious to know if the problem persists if you do it over an SSH tunnel to the server, so that way SSH prevents any monkeying in the middle. | 14:41 |
| johndoigiii | but I've been on the same public wifi for the same past 2 days, it must be the provider | 14:41 |
| paulproteus | ...you use public wifi without an SSH tunnel?! | 14:42 |
| johndoigiii | yeah I was gonna pull up a wireshark on a remote linux box I have | 14:42 |
| paulproteus | I guess nearly everyone who isn't me does, now that I think about it. | 14:42 |
| paulproteus | That makes the broken transparent HTTP proxy way more likely. | 14:42 |
| johndoigiii | yes, most likely | 14:43 |
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| johndoigiii | paulproteus: you'd be happy to know I'm configuring some tunnels right now and will make myself do this more regularly | 14:53 |
| paulproteus | <johndoigiii> and if you believe me, you probably don't realize that the interloper is typing this | 14:54 |
| johndoigiii | haha | 14:55 |
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| hdworak | hi | 17:06 |
| hdworak | nathany: ping | 17:06 |
| hdworak | :) | 17:06 |
| nathany | hdworak: pong | 17:07 |
| hdworak | hi | 17:07 |
| hdworak | :) | 17:07 |
| nathany | hello | 17:07 |
| hdworak | when it comes to validator, we allowed Dublin Core style meta | 17:07 |
| hdworak | it basically used <link rel="schema.DC" href="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" /> and then <meta name="DC.rights" content="foo bar" /> or something | 17:07 |
| nathany | you mean in the <head> with <meta> tags? | 17:07 |
| nathany | ah, ok | 17:07 |
| hdworak | I've got an example of a different usage | 17:08 |
| hdworak | and I'd like to ask you whether 1) it is correct and 2) whether we should handle that | 17:08 |
| nathany | ok | 17:08 |
| * hdworak send the URI on priv | 17:09 | |
| hdworak | so basically, we have <html (...) xmlns:dcterms="http://purl.org/dc/terms/" (...) | 17:09 |
| hdworak | and then <meta name="dcterms:rightsHolder" content="foo bar" | 17:10 |
| hdworak | rdflib sees this as: | 17:10 |
| hdworak | (rdflib.URIRef('http://www.example.com'), rdflib.URIRef('http://purl.org/dc/terms/rightsHolder'), rdflib.Literal('foo bar')) | 17:11 |
| nathany | so you're asking about having the namespace declared on HTML, along with the <meta ...> stuff? | 17:11 |
| hdworak | yes, and note different namespace | 17:12 |
| hdworak | validator supports http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/ | 17:12 |
| nathany | well that's the "new" DC namespace | 17:12 |
| hdworak | they use http://purl.org/dc/terms/ | 17:12 |
| nathany | so we should support that namespace | 17:12 |
| hdworak | which one is newer? /dc/terms ? | 17:12 |
| nathany | yes | 17:12 |
| hdworak | ok, so I assume the example is correct | 17:13 |
| hdworak | thanks, I'll handle that | 17:13 |
| nathany | i don't have any comment on the <meta> tags | 17:13 |
| nathany | the RDFa looks great | 17:13 |
| nathany | although http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/ch should be http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/ch/ | 17:13 |
| nathany | (if we're being picky) | 17:13 |
| hdworak | well, the meta is at least seen by rdflib | 17:13 |
| nathany | yeah, but it's nothing i want to encourage | 17:13 |
| nathany | :) | 17:13 |
| hdworak | the reason why it went unnoticed was that new namespace | 17:14 |
| hdworak | ok | 17:14 |
| nathany | ah, right | 17:14 |
| hdworak | and another thing | 17:14 |
| hdworak | currently, if you install all the eggs necessary for libvalidator and validator | 17:14 |
| hdworak | we have 400 MB... | 17:14 |
| nathany | that seems... excessive | 17:14 |
| hdworak | (mainly due to cc.license - which takes gazillion of megabytes after extraction) | 17:14 |
| nathany | ah | 17:14 |
| hdworak | but that's, yes, a simple app | 17:14 |
| nathany | i forgot about cc.license | 17:14 |
| hdworak | so would you mind if we would drop as much dependencies as possible | 17:15 |
| nathany | no, we shouldn't depend on anything that's not really required | 17:15 |
| hdworak | even to the point like mod_wsgi+nosetests+html5lib+rdflib+pyRdfa | 17:15 |
| nathany | you mean those being our dependencies? | 17:15 |
| nathany | (or dropping those?) | 17:15 |
| hdworak | no, leaving as only dependencies | 17:15 |
| nathany | will it run with only those installed? | 17:16 |
| hdworak | I think so | 17:16 |
| nathany | if it'll run with only those installed, i don't have a problem with it :) | 17:16 |
| hdworak | ok, but just to make it clear | 17:16 |
| hdworak | this plan involves (if possible) dropping pylons with its sqlalchemy dependency etc. | 17:16 |
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| hdworak | imho pylons is an overload for an app like this | 17:17 |
| hdworak | pyRdfa does fine without it | 17:17 |
| hdworak | your opinion, pls? | 17:17 |
| nathany | uh, how do we plan to serve web requests w/o something like pylons? | 17:18 |
| hdworak | I'd also like to make it, aside of being a Web app, a command line app, I see no problem with that for the time being (like read from URI or stdin) | 17:18 |
| hdworak | can't it be done by directly interacting with mod_wsgi ? | 17:18 |
| hdworak | I've done some preliminary tests and it's okay | 17:19 |
| nathany | maybe i'm thinking of a different mod_wsgi | 17:19 |
| hdworak | the main problem is having unicode internally from what the users upload | 17:19 |
| nathany | i was thinking of the apache module | 17:19 |
| hdworak | ok, but is it so difficult to handle WSGI directly? | 17:20 |
| hdworak | even for an app like this? | 17:20 |
| nathany | well i'd certainly prefer not to -- implementing WSGI is never going to be our "core competency", which is why we use a framework | 17:21 |
| nathany | maybe something like web.py?? | 17:21 |
| nathany | http://webpy.org/ | 17:21 |
| nathany | it's super lightweight | 17:21 |
| hdworak | cool | 17:21 |
| hdworak | as long as it handles file uploads and supports utf-8 internally, I'm all for it | 17:22 |
| nathany | i'm sure it does | 17:22 |
| hdworak | 'cause pylons dependencies are a bit too much | 17:22 |
| nkinkade | Bovinity: Would you be able to follow this link on your Mac with Firefox?: http://creativecommons.org/license/results-one?license_code=by-nc-sa&jurisdiction=-&version=3.0 | 17:23 |
| hdworak | nathany: would it be possible to obtain anti\kg roadmap/application for GSoC 2008 so to build a proposal upon it? | 17:23 |
| nathany | that's funny -- i think pylons is pretty light weight compared to other options | 17:23 |
| nkinkade | And then check the "Read our tutorial." link near the bottom. | 17:23 |
| nathany | hdworak: i don't know what " anti\kg roadmap/application" is; you mean ankit's roadmap/application? | 17:24 |
| hdworak | install requires: routes, webhelpers, beaker, paste, pastedeploy, pastescript, formencode, simplejson, decorator, nose, mako, webob, weberror, webtest, tempita | 17:24 |
| hdworak | nathany: yes, I prefer not to mention ppl by their names when they're off-line and don't see what's going on :) | 17:25 |
| Bovinity | nkinkade: yup | 17:25 |
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| nathany | paulproteus may be able to correct me, but http://code.creativecommons.org/viewsvn/stats/ankit/ has the code, i believe | 17:26 |
| hdworak | do you know who would be a possible mentor for this year's log analysis? | 17:26 |
| nathany | probably paulproteus | 17:26 |
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| hdworak | application = the max. 7000 chars sent to Google as a proposal | 17:26 |
| nathany | frankly i think you'd be better starting from scratch than building on last year's work | 17:26 |
| nkinkade | Bovinity: does the link point to the wiki? | 17:26 |
| hdworak | oh, ofc | 17:26 |
| Bovinity | nkinkade: yes | 17:27 |
| nkinkade | It should, and I'm sure it does. | 17:27 |
| nkinkade | Cool. | 17:27 |
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| nkinkade | Some guy wrote in saying that on his Mac the link points to CC.org and of course gives a 404. | 17:27 |
| nathany | hdworak: i don't know where to retrieve the app from last year from since SoC went to a new system for this year | 17:27 |
| nkinkade | Just wanted to be sure that it was a problem with his Mac/Firefox and not some bizarre bug on our side. | 17:27 |
| Bovinity | nkinkade: works fine in FF and Safari | 17:27 |
| hdworak | nathany: you're right | 17:28 |
| nkinkade | Bovinity: Thanks. | 17:28 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: hi! do you have ant\kig's GSoC 2008 proposal? could I see it? | 17:28 |
| hdworak | nathany: thanks for the input on metadata and dependencies | 17:30 |
| nathany | sure | 17:30 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: how could the validator (the one officially running) be updated nowadays? does it still involve you doing the updates manually? | 17:31 |
| hdworak | is there a replacement for cc.license ? | 17:31 |
| hdworak | I mean, I provide the lib with an URI of a cc's license and I get some data about it, like whether it's deprecated, or its full name | 17:32 |
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| nkinkade | paulproteus: nathany: How do you guys feel about upgrading a5 today? | 18:03 |
| nathany | nkinkade: poorly | 18:04 |
| nathany | i have zero time help out | 18:04 |
| nkinkade | nathany: Does that basically mean that you'd prefer to wait until April? | 18:05 |
| nathany | nkinkade: if you would like me to be available to help out... yes | 18:05 |
| nathany | sorry | 18:05 |
| nkinkade | There's dozens and dozens of package updates waiting, even without a dist-upgrade. | 18:05 |
| nkinkade | nathany: I wouldn't really expect you to have to intervene, but should a problem arise with cc.engine I wonder if paulproteus would feel confident enough to help figure it out. | 18:06 |
| nkinkade | I'd rather not put off the upgrade for another 2 or 3 weeks. | 18:07 |
| nkinkade | I guess we can wait, though. | 18:07 |
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| Bovinity | GHOP? google's house of pancakes and open source? | 18:11 |
| nathany | Bovinity: God, I wish | 18:17 |
| nkinkade | nathany: What's this craziness about Google requiring my street address and city for the GSoC stuff? | 18:20 |
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| nkinkade | There's no way I'm going to enter that ... unless it's totally bullshit information I enter. | 18:20 |
| nathany | nkinkade: no idea; just give them the CC office address | 18:20 |
| nathany | (that's what I did) | 18:20 |
| hdworak | nkinkade: t-shirt | 18:21 |
| nkinkade | That's ridiculous. Google is going too far. | 18:21 |
| hdworak | ppl just ask on #gsoc about that | 18:21 |
| hdworak | nkinkade: not only that :) | 18:21 |
| nkinkade | I don't want t-shirt. | 18:21 |
| nkinkade | Google can keep that shit. | 18:21 |
| nathany | nkinkade: i'll be happy to donate your t-shirt to Out of the Closet along with mine | 18:21 |
| hdworak | this year they can use student's personal data for advertising without asking for it | 18:21 |
| hdworak | :) | 18:21 |
| Bovinity | the SOC shirts have sucked for the past few years | 18:21 |
| hdworak | ? :) | 18:22 |
| hdworak | they don't | 18:22 |
| nkinkade | Last year I declined the t-shirt and it was some special opt-out process, as if I'd want to be Google's advertising bitch. | 18:22 |
| nathany | and that's saying a lot when we're talkign about conference shirts | 18:22 |
| hdworak | at least by Polish standards | 18:22 |
| hdworak | ;) | 18:22 |
| nathany | :) | 18:22 |
| hdworak | I've been wearing two of them all the year and they are still ok | 18:22 |
| nkinkade | I quit using Gmail a few weeks back, and now reject all cookies from Google and run Google Apps for CC in a separate browser instance in which I run nothing else. | 18:23 |
| hdworak | sure, no google cookies | 18:23 |
| hdworak | same here | 18:23 |
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| nkinkade | I'm donewith.google and requesting street addresses is just one more marker that Google is going to far and has got too big. | 18:23 |
| nkinkade | People need to start back-lashing, otherwise shortly Google and Amazon will own the Internet in a practical sense. | 18:24 |
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| hdworak | I'm unhappy that they do not focus on few things like search, mail, maps | 18:27 |
| everton137 | Hi, is there some good repository of cartoons under CC licenses? I know about search.creativecommons.org | 18:28 |
| hdworak | instead trying 10000 things, like 3D modelling and a browser | 18:28 |
| hdworak | Native Client etc. - where's Web 3.0 search? | 18:28 |
| hdworak | :) | 18:28 |
| hdworak | going down the altavista/ms way? :) | 18:29 |
| hdworak | it seems some orgs know that they were not accepted as yet | 18:29 |
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| hdworak | like | 18:33 |
| hdworak | (19:32:50) ***easwar got the message of GNOME acceptance to GNOME SoC channel | 18:33 |
| everton137 | Is someone here going to participate of Wikimania 2009 on Argentina? | 18:36 |
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| hdworak | everton137: not me :) | 18:39 |
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| nathany | everton137: not that i know of | 18:56 |
| everton137 | nathany, thanks. Is someone here interested on Wikimedia projects, for sure very related with a Free Culture? | 18:57 |
| nathany | i think many people would qualify as interested; myself, mlinksva, paulproteus at least | 18:58 |
| nathany | everton137: ^^ | 18:59 |
| mlinksva | everton137 i'm thinking of submitting a proposal for wikimania2009, but that's about as far as i've gotten | 19:00 |
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| everton137 | I'm just curious. I'm participating of the efforts to creat an Wikimedia chapter in Brazil and I'm also an enthusiast for people using Creative Commons licenses. I still going to submit my presentations, it's up to 15th April. Maybe you can give a lok here http://wikimania2009.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Index/en&uselang=en | 19:02 |
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| everton137 | mlinksva, are you or do you know some one participating of the Students for Free Culture <http://freeculture.org/>? Is there some Brazilian group in touch with them? | 19:04 |
| everton137 | It's would be nice if Lessig went to Wikimania. I don't know if he would be interested or would have time | 19:05 |
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| mlinksva | everton137 i know people participating in sfc, probably someone on this channel | 19:05 |
| everton137 | mlinksva, what kind of project do you have in mind for submiting? | 19:05 |
| mlinksva | lessig has changed his focus to corruption, no idea if he has plans for wikimania, though presumably he'll be just settling into harvard, where he's moving this summer | 19:06 |
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| everton137 | mlinksva, I'm also starting some projects on corruption. I've created a colaborative page on wikia.com for "adopting" some local politicians :-) I believe access to information related to politics if very related to Wikimedia aims :-) I'm thinking about present it on Wikimania, or also about Free Knowledge at universities in Brazil | 19:09 |
| everton137 | I meant, *is very related | 19:10 |
| mlinksva | everton137 yeah, makes sense, sounds great! | 19:10 |
| mlinksva | i guess many of the open/transparent govt efforts are using wikis are things that maybe could have wikinature | 19:10 |
| everton137 | yeap. but here in Brazil we have a problem, most people involved on projects to combat corruption are using not as clever as people in US and UK, for example :( | 19:11 |
| everton137 | they have no idea about the importance for sharing knowlege, free software, colaborative work etc.. Some 50+ years old too old fashioned :P | 19:13 |
| nathany | mlinksva: curry? | 19:13 |
| mlinksva | nathany: y | 19:18 |
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| nathany | paulproteus: SYN | 19:56 |
| paulproteus | nathany, ACK ish (see also IM) | 20:06 |
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| nathany | nkinkade: johndoigiii_ I need to go run a couple pre-travel errands | 20:28 |
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| nathany | can we defer/bump our call? | 20:28 |
| johndoigiii_ | sure thing | 20:28 |
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| nathany | thanks; i'll be back online in an hour or so... | 20:29 |
| johndoigiii_ | i am going to need to be offline by 1500 PST | 20:30 |
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| johndoigiii_ | actually, I can bring my laptop to my meeting and chat there | 20:31 |
| johndoigiii_ | talk to you then | 20:31 |
| nkinkade | nathany: Sure. | 20:31 |
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| nkinkade | paulproteus: Are you out of commission for the day? | 21:27 |
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| paulproteus | nkinkade, Ya, mostly | 22:09 |
| paulproteus | Perhaps only mostly, but I'll be afk without notice a lot. | 22:09 |
| paulproteus | Sup? | 22:09 |
| nkinkade | Just was going to alert you to the email I sent about the problems on a8. | 22:10 |
| nkinkade | See if you had any input. | 22:10 |
| paulproteus | haven't read it yet, will check it out right now | 22:10 |
| nkinkade | Seems like it's related to a kernel but having to do with the IDLE scheduling priority. | 22:10 |
| paulproteus | Oh boy. | 22:10 |
| paulproteus | Idle i/o scheduling priority, you think? | 22:11 |
| paulproteus | Let's see anyway. | 22:11 |
| nkinkade | If the problems occur again tonight, I may set the priority of cron and backup jobs to "Best Effort" to see if it helps. | 22:11 |
| paulproteus | That's the same as normal, right? | 22:11 |
| nkinkade | paulproteus: I think so. | 22:12 |
| paulproteus | iirc there are three priorities: "Best effort" (normal), idle (low), real-time (high) | 22:12 |
| paulproteus | "even to a reboot" didn't help? Weird! | 22:12 |
| nkinkade | I was shocked and dismayed. | 22:12 |
| nkinkade | Which leads me to thing that something else was going on as well. | 22:12 |
| paulproteus | Why the link to a mail.google.com link? | 22:12 |
| nkinkade | Yet the connection stats were very very low. | 22:12 |
| nkinkade | Maybe it was an accident? | 22:12 |
| paulproteus | Okay. | 22:12 |
| nkinkade | Yeah, that a mistake. | 22:13 |
| nkinkade | I was supposed to be a link to a bug on Ubuntu's Launchpad regarding this issue .. I believe the but was accepted. | 22:14 |
| paulproteus | but == bug? | 22:14 |
| paulproteus | I == It | 22:15 |
| paulproteus | Can you provide the link here then? | 22:15 |
| paulproteus | BTW SCHED_IDLE != I/O Idle priority, I believe. | 22:15 |
| * paulproteus reads http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/online/pages/man2/sched_setscheduler.2.html | 22:16 | |
| nkinkade | Yeah, but == bug. | 22:16 |
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| nkinkade | Maybe I misread, then. I was positive what SCHED_IDLE referred to, but I made a leap and associated it with the i/o scheduling and ionice, since all the information I can find talks about high disc i/o causing the problems. | 22:18 |
| paulproteus | Yeah, I'm not quite sure. | 22:18 |
| paulproteus | I'm grabbing the source of ionice now. | 22:18 |
| nkinkade | paulproteus: One other bit is that when this problem occurs load average soar, I saw around 200 the other night, and the %wa in top hover around %95. | 22:19 |
| nkinkade | So the problem seems to be at least partly I/O related. | 22:20 |
| paulproteus | Well, sure. | 22:20 |
| nkinkade | And it having occurred right around the same time each night, when the backups of a8 are going on with rsync. | 22:20 |
| paulproteus | Right, but it could be a *different* scheduler bug, is all I'm saying. | 22:21 |
| paulproteus | I can't imagine why a reboot didn't fix it. | 22:21 |
| paulproteus | Is there a way in which that makes sense? | 22:21 |
| paulproteus | Presumably a reboot would restore the kernel to a sane state, and some process would then go nuts and eat up all the I/O bandwidth and kill the scheduler. | 22:21 |
| paulproteus | The question is, which process and under what conditions? | 22:22 |
| paulproteus | And is it for the same reasons as before the reboot? | 22:22 |
| nkinkade | paulproteus: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/276476 | 22:22 |
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| paulproteus | thanks | 22:22 |
| nkinkade | That was the Ubuntu bug I was referring to. It references the thread at that lkml.org thread. | 22:23 |
| * paulproteus nods | 22:24 | |
| nkinkade | My first thought was that it was some external factor, like somebody bombarding the machine with requests, but netstat didn't reveal anything of that sort and iptraf showed very low network usage. | 22:24 |
| paulproteus | Well, I guess I would try adding these three patches to that machine's kernel and seeing if that fixes it. | 22:25 |
| nkinkade | I could kill both Varnish and Apache and the machine would rectify itself, but as soon as I restarted Varnish, Varnish's memory usage would soar to around 1.5G and the %wa would rocket back up to around 95%. | 22:25 |
| johndoigiii | are we still planning on a dev mtg today? | 22:26 |
| johndoigiii | I have a guy from craigslist buying some furniture of mine and will need to sign off | 22:26 |
| johndoigiii | I will** | 22:26 |
| nkinkade | Interesting, I had the idea that Varnish was screwed for some reason, so I even shutdown Varnish and set all vhosts to listen on port 80 directly. | 22:26 |
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| nkinkade | johndoigiii: I have this sense that the meeting is history for today. | 22:26 |
| nathany | johndoigiii: nkinkade: uh, yeah, sorry | 22:27 |
| nkinkade | Asheesh is mostly off for the day. | 22:27 |
| nkinkade | And nathany is off until April. :-) | 22:27 |
| nathany | i'm trying to get this talk roughed out | 22:27 |
| nathany | lol | 22:27 |
| nathany | nearly | 22:27 |
| johndoigiii | haha no prob, whats the topic nathany ? | 22:27 |
| nathany | it's for Univ of Michigan's Open Access week -- how CC enables open access, what needs to be done and what we're doing to keep moving things forward | 22:28 |
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| johndoigiii | awesome | 22:28 |
| johndoigiii | will there be a screencast? | 22:28 |
| nkinkade | paulproteus: But back to my information about putting Apache directly on port 80. It was useless, and while Varnish managed to get out a few requests for images even during the height of the problem, Apache couldn't even return the smallest image ... totally wedged. | 22:28 |
| paulproteus | nkinkade, The thing is I'm curious about is, what other processes were running then? | 22:29 |
| nathany | no idea... if it's taped i'll try to get it for our site, otherwise I may experiment with doing slides + voice over | 22:29 |
| nathany | at this point I just need to figure out what I'm saying :) | 22:29 |
| johndoigiii | haha | 22:29 |
| johndoigiii | well good luck | 22:29 |
| johndoigiii | talk to you all tomorrow | 22:29 |
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| nkinkade | paulproteus: I went through the process list a number of times and didn't notice at that time anything strange, but it was also 3:30AM and had just been woken up, so I probably wasn't at the top of my game. | 22:32 |
| paulproteus | Anyway, nkinkade, I guess there are a few paths forward. | 22:32 |
| paulproteus | One is to just switch back to the older kernel we were using pre-upgrade. | 22:32 |
| nkinkade | paulproteus: The most notable suspect process was rsync. | 22:32 |
| paulproteus | Yeah, rsync is my guess. | 22:33 |
| nkinkade | But I killed it. | 22:33 |
| paulproteus | Oh, huh. | 22:33 |
| nkinkade | One strange thing is that I couldn't seem to kill it. | 22:33 |
| paulproteus | Oh, right, okay. | 22:33 |
| paulproteus | That's totally in line with scheduler insanity. | 22:33 |
| paulproteus | Another is to run 2.6.26 in a VM and reproduce the hang, and then test if with an upgraded kernel you can't reproduce it. | 22:33 |
| nkinkade | I seems that either rsync on the remote end was just restarting it or something on the local side. | 22:33 |
| paulproteus | A third is just to upgrade the kernel on the server and cross your finger. | 22:33 |
| paulproteus | Did the PID change? | 22:33 |
| nkinkade | paulproteus: Yeah. | 22:33 |
| nkinkade | Every time I killed it the pid changed to some higher one. | 22:34 |
| nkinkade | Ultimately I had to login to the backup box and kill rsync there. | 22:34 |
| paulproteus | sudo mv /usr/bin/rsync /usr/bin/rsync.lol # (-; | 22:34 |
| nkinkade | haha | 22:34 |
| paulproteus | sorry, typo | 22:34 |
| paulproteus | sudo mv /usr/bin/rsync /usr/bin/rsync.lol-no # (-; | 22:34 |
| nkinkade | Or how about: $ sudo mv /usr/bin/rsync /usr/bin/rsyke | 22:35 |
| paulproteus | Given the choices, I'd think that just switching the kernel back down to etch's is the best optio for now. | 22:35 |
| paulproteus | That's a good one too. (-: | 22:35 |
| nkinkade | paulproteus: Let's see what happens tonight. | 22:35 |
| paulproteus | er, if you insist | 22:36 |
| nkinkade | I'm guessing that as long as not too many files have change rsync will get in and out fast, before a problem can really manifest. | 22:36 |
| paulproteus | In which case we learn nothing. | 22:36 |
| nkinkade | But the problem may still lie latent. | 22:36 |
| nkinkade | Which is no good. | 22:36 |
| paulproteus | Right. | 22:36 |
| nkinkade | I'm totally open to downgrading the kernel, but if it happens again tonight we have 3 nigths in a row, and that definite pattern will be useful. | 22:37 |
| paulproteus | I guess. I'd say your two-night pattern is already enough. | 22:37 |
| nkinkade | Especially if we can nearly certainly relate it to rsync and the backups. | 22:37 |
| nkinkade | paulproteus: You are probably right. | 22:37 |
| nkinkade | Will apt downgrade a kernel with ease? | 22:37 |
| paulproteus | You probably have the old one still installed. | 22:38 |
| nkinkade | paulproteus: Yeah, they are there, but wont' there be problems with modules? | 22:38 |
| paulproteus | So just dpkg -r the current one and the old one is the default. | 22:38 |
| paulproteus | ...have you never compiled a kernel? (-: | 22:38 |
| paulproteus | Basically, they're independent. | 22:38 |
| nkinkade | paulproteus: I have, but it has been a while since I've needed to. | 22:38 |
| nkinkade | I didn't realize they were independent. | 22:39 |
| nkinkade | I thought the opposite. | 22:39 |
| paulproteus | ls /lib/modules/ | 22:39 |
| nkinkade | Oh, I see what you mean. | 22:39 |
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| nkinkade | The kernel will automatically use the modules that were compiled against it. | 22:40 |
| paulproteus | Yup. | 22:40 |
| paulproteus | "Rather, modprobe will," to be pedantic. | 22:40 |
| nkinkade | That's good to know. | 22:40 |
| nkinkade | Perhaps easiest would be to just change the default kernel in /boot/grub/menu.lst. | 22:42 |
| paulproteus | You could change the grub options to make the older one the default, or you could just dpkg -r the new one. | 22:42 |
| paulproteus | Either way. | 22:42 |
| nkinkade | Seems easier to leave the new kernel installed. | 22:42 |
| paulproteus | "Back in my day we had to update the /vmlinuz symlink and re-run lilo." | 22:42 |
| nkinkade | haah | 22:42 |
| nkinkade | Well, thanks for taking a look at that issue and for the advice. | 22:43 |
| nkinkade | It's just curious that it's not happening on a6 or a9, which are both upgraded. | 22:43 |
| nkinkade | On the other hand, those machine are not busy at all. Whereas, a8 is quite busy. | 22:44 |
| nkinkade | This is interesting: http://a9.creativecommons.org/mrtg/66.135.59.147.html | 22:44 |
| paulproteus | P.S. Life would be easier with single-tasking operating systems on single-core computers. | 22:45 |
| paulproteus | afk for a bit | 22:45 |
| nkinkade | nathany: I had been wondering why I wasn't receiving the Nagios emails. Google has been dropping *every single one* in my Spam folder. | 22:48 |
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| nathany | nkinkade: roundup didn't send you an email due to the change i made the other day in email handling | 23:25 |
| nathany | it doesnt' send you email about things you do yourself | 23:25 |
| nathany | (i think a third, in between option, is to only do so on "new" tickets) | 23:25 |
| nathany | (i'm open to changing it back or trying other things) | 23:26 |
| nkinkade | nathany: I rely on those emails. | 23:26 |
| nkinkade | I don't leave roundup open all day, but my mail is open all day and with the multiple inboxes I have all my issues in a separate pane. | 23:27 |
| nkinkade | For me, it would be good to at least get an email on the initial creation of an issue. ... after that it's not so important. | 23:27 |
| nathany | ok | 23:27 |
| nathany | one sec | 23:27 |
| nkinkade | Would that be hard to implement? | 23:28 |
| nathany | on, it's just a setting | 23:28 |
| nkinkade | Ah, cool. | 23:28 |
| nkinkade | Thanks. | 23:28 |
| nkinkade | But I'm open to not having it do that if nobody else wants it. | 23:29 |
| nathany | i don't think anyone else has a strong opinion | 23:29 |
| nathany | i just found it a little silly to get an email when i edited a ticket, when i did the edit | 23:29 |
| nathany | so now you should get an email when you create a ticket for yourself, but not if you edit a ticket subsequently | 23:30 |
| nathany | if you'd prefer to revert to the old behavior completely, let me know | 23:30 |
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