Monday, 2009-03-09

mattlgreg-g: IANALE ;)00:02
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mattlgreg-g: woah. appreciate that.06:27
greg-gnot approved by CC legal counsel, of course.  I will write an email shortly to see if we can put it in our FAQ06:29
mattlthat'd be sweet though06:30
greg-gemail sent.06:55
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nathanyhey greg-g, should we actually check in today? :)15:59
greg-gnathany: if you want :)16:03
nathanygreg-g: anything new to report? :)16:03
nathanymaybe we should just figure out a f2f for when i'm in MI16:03
greg-gthat probably would be most efficient16:04
nathanyif there isn't anything new/amazing/questionable/etc, let's do that16:04
greg-galso, I was going to ask you if you had spoke with Jim Eng about meeting f2f re: sakai stuff16:04
nathanyi did briefly16:04
nathanyi need to send some emails today to Ted, et al about firming up my schedule16:04
greg-ganything come of it? want me to make some plans for you? :)16:04
nathanyhe said he was interested but we never really nailed down a time16:05
greg-glet me know if you want me to do anything about that16:05
nathanyis there anyone else outside the ted/pieter/garin/etc team i should see while i'm there (beside the inside of Zingerman's? ;) )16:05
greg-gwell, there are all the other Open Access Week events, if you wanted to attend any of those (no technical talks). Maybe a quick "hello" to Molly Kleinman16:06
nathanygot it16:07
nathanyok, cool16:07
nathanyis your schedule reasonably up to date on google? or should i just ping you after i fill in meetings with others to set up a sync meeting?16:07
greg-gmy schedule is up to date for all recuring things at least16:08
greg-gand most other things, so yes. the answer is yes. :)16:08
nathanyexcellent :)16:08
nathanygreat checking in with you ;)16:09
greg-ggo efficiency!16:09
greg-g(I was eating lunch the whole time, you never would have known either)16:09
paulproteusI wonder if daylight savings time can help trick me into getting up early.16:12
paulproteusSo far, it seems to be working, but the sample size is relatively small.16:12
greg-gpaulproteus: I wouldn't count on it. It didn't work for me.16:12
greg-gof course, I was up at 3am making a BY-SA chart, that might have something to do with it.16:13
paulproteusI was up then too, but what I was doing was painstakingly choosing a venue for the Debian Lenny release party.16:14
paulproteusBut also I went to sleep half an hour later and am in the time zone where "3am Eastern" is only midnight, muahaha.16:14
greg-gie: drinking at different bars.16:14
paulproteusBTW, nathany , you're invited to
paulproteusnathany, What was the .no problem, btw?16:15
paulproteusMaybe I'll just read the commit log.16:15
* paulproteus does that16:16
nathanypaulproteus: awesome, i'll put it on my calendar...16:16
nathanypaulproteus: msgctxt seems to make zope's (python's?) i18n compiler barf16:16
paulproteusDoes Zope i18n just not support msgctxt... ...yes.16:17
paulproteusOkay then.16:17
nathanybut barf in a way that just makes it ignore the rest of the PO16:17
nathanyi haven't dug deep enough to figure out if this is a Zope or Python problem16:17
paulproteusI mean, there's some sense in "Fail hard".16:17
nathanypaulproteus: right16:21
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paulproteusnathany, Ankit's code quality doesn't seem to have improved dramatically in a year.16:47
nathanypaulproteus: i noticed but was trying to remain #positive on a monday morning :)16:48
* nathany channels rejon16:48
paulproteusI'm trying to, also, but it's not working as well.16:48
CharelBdamned shit16:49
nathanyi suggest just ignoring his code... unless you and mlinksva have had a conversation to the contrary16:49
nathanyif it doesn't work, we'll write it ourselves when the time comes (i suspect)16:49
paulproteusI'm going to spend 15m more fixing it, and then I'll go back to ignoring it.16:49
paulproteusI still want them to be able to get as far as possible without us doing a lot of work.16:50
CharelBwhy does cc does not sell these shirts in black ... these creative commoner shirts :/16:50
BovinityBovinity: we print all our shirts up front, and we haven't found a large enough demand for alternate colours16:52
BovinityCharelB: ^16:53
CharelBk :/16:53
CharelBwell that's a pity :(16:53
Bovinitywere you teh one who just called?16:53
Bovinityotherwise, demand is on the up!16:53
CharelBI called yet yes :/16:53
CharelBi'm that guy from luxembourg.16:54
paulproteusI'm really floored by the weirdness of Ankit's code.16:55
paulproteusIt represents a way of thinking I do not understand.16:55
paulproteusAdmittedly it seems he doesn't either, or else it would actually work.16:55
CharelBMy parents gonna kill me if they see ... that I called in the us :/16:56
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paulproteusI mean, the code isn't just wrong in an MIT vs. New Jersey sense. It's wrong as in it doesn't run successfully.17:09
nathanypaulproteus: your 15 minutes is up :)17:09
* paulproteus sighs17:10
paulproteus"Five more minutes..."17:10
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nathanypaulproteus: it's not our job to fix their code17:14
mlinksvapaulproteus: what code is being discussed?17:14
paulproteusnathany, It's not, and I'm done now.17:14
nathanygreat :)17:14
paulproteusmlinksva, Ankit G. wrote some code to read data from our CSV dumps of linkback stats that he wants to digest into data he's going to put onto the CC Monitor wiki.17:15
paulproteusIf this is the level of "data analysis" code that project is going to get, it's utterly hopeless.17:15
paulproteusWhich is a shame, because it's a cool project.17:15
nathanypaulproteus: don't worry! they want to write a skin too! ;)17:15
paulproteus"At least" that's not Ankit's plan, just Jackson's.17:16
nathany"at least" indeed17:16
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* paulproteus whispers to himself, "Count your blessings."17:16
paulproteusWow, RACING FAIL is amazing.17:17
paulproteusWow, so is "look who just arrived."17:18
Bovinityfailboat knows only FAILURE17:18
paulproteus"Set sail for FAIL"17:18
greg-gI would argue this is a Racing Win:
Bovinityraicing fail reminds me of
greg-ghe only lost a couple points because he wasn't also barefoot17:20
greg-gBovinity: haha17:20
greg-galso reminds me of this bike polo "Flight of Igor" photo from Ann Arbor:
nkinkadepaulproteus: Do you hang out in #civicrm these days?17:23
paulproteusWOW, greg-g.17:23
* paulproteus checks17:23
paulproteusnkinkade, I seem to be there, yeah.17:23
paulproteusI see your question.17:23
paulproteusI basically don't leave channels.17:23
paulproteusI'm going to brb and get something from Tartine to cheer me up.17:24
mlinksvapaulproteus: argh. need to rescope to something not totally useless. crap, no time. #idea. :(17:25
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paulproteus(wrong button)17:26
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paulproteusnathany, For some reason, po2cc where Pootle is seems to insert msgctxt.19:12
paulproteuser, wait, it's gone totally bonkers19:12
paulproteustty in a bit...19:13
paulproteusD'oh, I ran it backwards.19:13
* paulproteus ran cc2po not po2cc19:13
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greg-gnathany: re: your dent about PhD candidates: yes. yes it does.19:52
greg-g16:02 <   jcastro> I kind of like this orgmode thing20:06
greg-g16:02 <   jcastro> but like, it needs emacs20:06
greg-g16:02 <   jcastro> and I don't feel like learning a new OS.20:06
greg-g16:03 <   jcastro> however, an orgmode thing for tomboy would be .... awesome20:06
paulproteusI love org mode, and I just made a cheat sheet for myself that I refer to.20:12
nathanygreg-g: i *want* to like tomboy... just like i want to like tasque20:13
paulproteusHave you tried Getting Things GNOME?20:13
paulproteusIt seems to me it's yet another thing that won't be as enjoyable as org mode.20:13
nathanyi just saw it a few minutes ago20:13
robmyersTomboy is Mono based, just uninstall Mono and the decision becomes easier. ;-)20:13
* nathany rolls eyes20:14
paulproteusThat's like saying:20:14
paulproteusTomboy is Linux based, just uninstall Linux and the decision becomes easier ;-)20:14
BovinityGET A MAC20:14
* paulproteus had Linux on a Mac for a while; does that count?20:14
robmyersyeah the G4 behind me has Fedora on20:14
paulproteusThe G4 CPU is the reason I own a Thinkpad today.20:15
paulproteusPiece of trash.20:15
paulproteusnathany, re:
paulproteusWe just want this to be one-off - but what if someone tries to do a translation on Pootle?20:16
paulproteusAnd then commits it, and then we feel dumb?20:16
paulproteusI guess that's no big deal if we disable commit for en and en_US there.20:16
paulproteusI'll ensure that is the case.20:16
paulproteusYou are the only one with commit on either, and in fact you have it on both.20:18
paulproteusUse this power wisely, but I will not remove it from you.20:18
paulproteuser, brb, lunch20:19
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Bovinitymecredis: do you have a url for the updated shared culture video? i still see the old one on my page21:15
greg-gI have not tried GTG yet, the concensus of my GTD friends is that it isn't quite there yet, and it would be better as a frontend to Tasks (that webbased app).21:18
greg-gGetting Things Gnome (new GTD app)21:18
mattli thought it was some new technique21:19
mattlgetting things going or something21:19
mattljust use emacs for gtd21:19
greg-gheh, yeah, it was in response to an earlier discussion, no context is a pain.21:19
robmyersooh it's Python-based21:22
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nkinkademlinksva: Do you know anything about this issue:
mlinksvankinkade: i didn't know about it. that's a dark corner of the fdl i wasn't aware of21:57
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nkinkademlinksva: Someone wrote in asking if migrating images to BY-SA on their wiki would allow them a way out of that mess.21:59
mlinksvankinkade: need more information21:59
nkinkadeI'm not 100% sure how to respond, but figured I say something to the effect that I know of no reason why using a BY-SA license would cause that problem.22:00
mlinksvankinkade: can you fwd me the email?22:00
nkinkademlinksva: Would you rather reply yourself?22:00
mlinksvamaybe, maybe not, need to see :)22:00
nkinkadeI'll forward it to you.22:00
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nathanynkinkade: i just tried to restart varnish on a7 and it barfed22:52
nkinkadenathany: Let me take a look.  I happen to be logged in.22:53
nkinkadenathany: Did you change something in the VCL file?22:54
nathanyi did, and i changed it back and it still fails22:54
nathanyi was trying to make /publicdomain go to zope (along with license and characteristic22:54
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nathanynkinkade: it seems to be back alive22:55
nathanywhat'd you do?22:55
nkinkadenathany: I didn't do anything.22:56
nkinkadeI was just looking over the VCL file.22:56
nathanythat's weird22:56
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nkinkadeI didn't try starting it, but it said it had failed.22:56
nathanywhere did you look to see that it said that?22:56
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nathany(i looked in /var/log/varnish.log which seemed empty)22:56
nathanyi'm going to make my change again and have you sanity check it22:56
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nathanynkinkade: can i have the lock on creativecommons.vcl?22:57
nathanythanks :)22:57
paulproteusYou silly folks, you should track /etc in etckeeper.22:58
nathanynkinkade: can you take a look? i edited the (license|characteristic)22:58
nathanypaulproteus: sometimes you're amusing22:58
paulproteusI can install it, but I'd argue it needs some buy-in to be useful.22:58
nathanynow isn't one of those times22:58
paulproteusFair enough.22:58
* paulproteus pipes down for a bit22:58
paulproteusLemme know if I can help.22:59
nathanynkinkade: let me know if that looks sane and then lets try and restart varnish with it22:59
nkinkadenathany: So the only thing you did was to add |publicdomain in there?23:00
nkinkadeIs that what you had before, too?23:00
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nkinkadeI wonder if it doesn't like more than one | for alternatives?23:00
nathanystill doesn't explain why it wouldn't start when i changed it back23:01
nathanyhow would you go about deploying that configuration change?23:01
nathanynkinkade: ^^?23:03
nathany(i just want to make sure i'm using the correct incantation)23:03
nkinkadeSeems alright, but I have no reason to believe that it'll work this time if it failed before.23:03
nkinkadeI'm looking around for a quirks about regexs in VCL.23:03
nathanynkinkade: but would you just do /etc/init.d/varnish restart?23:04
nkinkadenathany: I'll give it a try.23:04
nathanynkinkade: fwiw i changed it to (license|publicdomain) instead of (license|publicdomain|characteristic)23:05
nathanynkinkade: also, *IS* that the command you'd use to apply this, or is there some other approach that's better?23:05
nathany(i'm really trying to make sure I23:06
nathany'm doing this right)23:06
nkinkadenathany: I restarted Varnish and it came back up.23:06
nathanyok, thanks23:06
nkinkadeJust now checking to see if the rule is actually working.23:06
nathanynkinkade: it should be a 404 at the moment23:07
nkinkadeIt does return a "File not found."23:08
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nathanypaulproteus: i created a ticket re: etckeeper; if we get consensus, let's do it.23:12
nathanythanks for continued prompting towards sanity23:12
paulproteusSure thing, and sorry about barging in with it when there's a real fire to be put out.23:13
nathanypaulproteus: np :)23:13
Bovinitypaulproteus: with git-svn, can i push a git tree into a git-svn, and act like it was in svn all along?23:14
paulproteusYou mean like, make a git commit based on svn, and then when future svn revs come in, have them be based on your git rev?23:15
paulproteusLike svn r3 -> svn r4 -> my git commit -> svn r5 -> ...23:16
paulproteusThere's no automated way to do that (but I'm not sure what you're asking really, but I sense the answer's no).23:16
Bovinitypaulproteus: i think i mean merging a git tree into a git-svn checkout23:16
Bovinityyeah, probably no23:16
paulproteusOh, I see. You should cherry-pick your git changes on top of the latest git-svn revision, and git svn dcommit.23:16
paulproteusSo that there's a linear path from the last git-svn commit that represents svn HEAD to the git commit you have (and then git svn dcommit's job is clear).23:17
paulproteusNote that this is effectively what "git svn rebase" does every time.23:17
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Bovinityhmm, i think i'll just work in my own git checkout and figure out merging later23:20
paulproteusOkay, cool.23:20
mattlKresentPhresh: ?23:20
paulproteusI can help later in more detail (e.g., if I'm in person, or you give me a copy of your .git).23:20
KresentPhreshAnyway... I had a general question, thought maybe someone here could shed a light on the subject...23:20
KresentPhresh...Anyone know how Wikipedia finds funds to operate?23:20
mattlKresentPhresh: read their annual report.23:21
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Bovinitypaulproteus: i'm thinking it's just a case of pulling a git-svn checkout into my working tree, and merging from there... or just do it the old fashioned way.23:22
paulproteusWith git-svn, "git merge" is almost always wrong.23:22
greg-gthere is also #wikipedia, with people who are more likely to know the answer23:22
paulproteusSince git svn doesn't know how to push multi-parent commits back to svn (since svn doesn't have that concept) and that's how git records "merge."23:23
KresentPhreshTrue, but that's about all I wonder about Wikipedia, my other issues are more general than that.23:23
KresentPhreshTrying to come up with a business idea off a free product, kind of tricky.23:23
paulproteusBut cherry-picking/rebasing your commits on top of a git svn-imported revision does make sense.23:23
greg-gKresentPhresh: that depends on the product, somewhat.23:26
KresentPhreshYep, but I don't intend to own the product since I want it to be a collaborative effort.23:27
KresentPhreshAn Operating System.23:27
greg-gOh, that is easy, see: RedHat, IBM, etc etc23:27
KresentPhreshYeah, it's a custom Linux system basically23:28
greg-gyep, that is what they do.23:28
mattlKresentPhresh: Linux. Not an operating system.23:28
KresentPhreshBut I'm not enough of a Linux Admin to build the entire system, so I need to be able to hire a couple of hands to help me work on the essentials23:28
KresentPhreshI'm aware23:28
KresentPhreshA traditional "OS" comes in the form of a distro, but I don't want to just make another distro.23:29
KresentPhreshSo I'm trying to design some sort of web-based collaboration system, some means of facilitating public development, kind of how anyone can edit Wikipedia articles, they too can shape large aspects of the system.23:30
KresentPhreshThanks for pointing me to that annual report, though, I hadn't considered that and it gave me a bit more information than just their revenue.23:34
nathanypaulproteus: you still have your one off script around that blasts en and en_US?23:40
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nathanyi had an old copy lying around that i was working off of and i guess i committed over your changes23:40
paulproteusI do, yeah.23:40
nathanycan you quick update, blast, commit? (that works in the /po/ dir, right?)23:41
paulproteusEr, I can't reproduce your clobbering it.23:43
* paulproteus looks at viewsvn23:43
paulproteusIt lives in asheesh_oneoffs and indicates you didn't touch that.23:43
nathanyi didn't clobber the script23:43
paulproteusOh, you mean you clobbered teh POs.23:43
paulproteusGot itl.23:43
nathanyi clobbered the english23:43
paulproteusI haven't used it and committed the result yet.23:43
nathanyok, i'll grab it and go from there23:43
paulproteusI'm about to do that, so I'll do it and say it's done and happy in 5m. (-:23:44
nathanyok cool23:44
nathany(don't forget to svn up first :) )23:44
paulproteusI was going to add a restart-Pootle-when-PO-files-change post-commit hook first.23:44
paulproteusOtherwise I'll just get "svn: lol out of date sucka". (-:23:44
nathanyok, no idea what you're talking about23:44
paulproteusWhatever, it's the thing that the Czech guy was having.23:44
nathanywhatever, my brain is mush, i have to head home to walk the dog23:44
paulproteusACK, have fun.23:45
nathanycan you ping me when english is sufficiently gutted?23:45
paulproteusWill do.23:45
nathanythanks much23:45
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paulproteus has the biggest CC button I've ever SEEN.23:55
mattlpaulproteus: look out for the CD copy of More Mature Escapades.23:56
Bovinityhe really went all out with the license23:57
mlinksvapaulproteus: that's pretty silly looking23:58
paulproteusI think it's pretty awesome-looking actually.23:59
paulproteus"My CC is bigger than yours"23:59

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