Tuesday, 2009-03-10

mattlpaulproteus: http://matt.lee.name/00:02
paulproteusI'd say, "contact the autonomo.us list" instead.00:06
paulproteusAnyway, be back in a bit.00:07
mattlpaulproteus: no no, scroll down!00:07
paulproteusOh my GOD.00:08
paulproteusNow I want to plaster that everywhere at that size.00:08
paulproteusLike the wall across the street from me.00:08
paulproteusThat's frickin' awesome.00:08
mattlyou guys need to make big fucking stickers like that00:08
paulproteusReally, though00:09
paulproteuswait, one sec00:09
Bovinitythen people will go stick them on things and call them cc licensed... </curmudgeon>00:09
mattlno worse than people who take random copyrighted images and put them on flickr under free licenses00:10
mattlway to violate your employers trademark dude ;)00:13
* paulproteus looks around sheepishly and hopes mlinksva doesn't notice00:13
* Bovinity opens up an email to DP00:14
paulproteusI guess HU EG would have been even better.00:15
paulproteusHopefully DP will have some suggestions about a better caption.00:15
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mlinksvamattl, paulproteus looking great, but you should really go full-width with svg00:50
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mattlmlinksva: where are you and paulproteus staying during the LP2009 conf?01:18
paulproteusPossibly chez Mako or possibly with a friend in Central Square.01:19
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nathanypaulproteus: SYN?04:23
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paulproteusnathany, ACK05:25
paulproteusThe idea of you trying to find me on IRC this late in the evening does not bode well, I fear.05:25
nathanypaulproteus: i managed to figure it out, still slogging through05:25
nathanythere was still a spurious country.ec msgctxt in the master file05:25
paulproteusI saw it, and I wondered why.05:26
nathanyfixing that, however, revealed that babel had helpfully duplicated the string05:26
paulproteusI thought it might have been a dream.05:26
nathanyand in the cases where it's translated, well, the two are almost always different05:26
nathany(10/12 cases)05:26
nathanyfun times05:26
nathanyi've just about got them edited, setting those to fuzzy with a conjoined value and a flag between the two05:26
paulproteusShould I had a pre-commit hook that verifies master.po has no msgctxt?05:27
nathanyunfortunately it's our most active translators that are going to suffer since they're the only ones who did the string05:27
paulproteusYeah, that is a drag.05:27
nathanyi'm not sure that's quite it05:27
nathanyit may be that we want to run things through msguniq before comitting05:27
paulproteusHmm, good point.05:27
nathanywell, that wouldn't have caught the dupe (since they *were* technically unique ids)05:28
nathanybut it's another thing...05:28
paulproteusSo no msgctxt + msguniq.05:28
nathanyanyway, i need to get these files cleaned up, committed, merged, and CCi emailed so i can be my bright and cheerful self for etech tomorrow AM05:28
paulproteusOr moreover, assert msguniq + assert no msgctxt.05:28
paulproteusLet the committer hand-fix htis.05:28
nathanyi mean merged when i updated pootle05:29
nathany(btw you missed a couple of <<< lines that'll be removed in this pass, too)05:29
paulproteusOh, eeeeeeeeek.05:29
nathany(no biggie...)05:29
paulproteusI searched for <<< ...05:29
paulproteusGack, sorry.05:29
paulproteusHere, have a Dinosaur Comics for when you have a sec: http://www.qwantz.com/archive/001115.html05:30
nathanythey were all the way @ the end of the file05:30
paulproteusOH, huh.05:30
paulproteusAnyway I'll let you get back to it unless you need me / want me.05:30
nathanynope, nothing to see here05:30
paulproteusSure thing.05:30
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nathanypaulproteus: the update applied seamlessly on pootle; i'm declaring victory for the night and heading to bed; see you tomorrow05:55
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Arulanyone have a paypal acc14:14
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m-cGreetings - in a recent weblog entry, Fred Benenson said that Uncensored Interview "now includes videos available via download in Ogg Theora", but I am unable to find any links on that web site that support such downloads.16:26
m-cHas anyone here seen this already who can tell me where these links are located?  Do I need to sign up for an account on that website, first, before the links are visible?16:27
m-cOh, shoot, I just found them.  Heh - nevermind.16:28
m-cThe Download Clip link is not present on many video pages.16:32
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paulproteusMorning all.16:42
paulproteusm-c, Glad you found it.16:42
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nkinkadepaulproteus: Are you up to speed at all about these new changes to cc.engine?17:09
paulproteusNot really.17:09
paulproteusI can be, if necessary. What's up?17:09
nkinkadepaulproteus: I'm finally trying to see what's up with the HK translations.17:09
nkinkadeSeems that "bin/buildout install i18n" is no longer sufficient to make things work for cc.engine, at least on staging.17:10
paulproteusHmm. I want to see if I can figure out a bug in Babel; can we talk in ca. 30m?17:10
paulproteusMy guess is that's due to syntax errors or other such snafus in the PO files.17:10
nkinkadeWill Nathan be offline most of the day?17:10
paulproteushttp://teamspace.creativecommons.org/ETech_Conference_Booth indicates at least he's at ETech until 1; I don't know his plans after that.17:11
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paulproteusBabel is hilarious.17:33
* paulproteus fixes a bug and submits another patch.17:33
paulproteusThey assume all time zone offsets are positive.17:33
nkinkadeThat doesn't really work for locations west of the prime meridian and east of 180 degrees, at least not in the notation I'm familiar with seeing.17:37
paulproteusYeah, so Babel changes this in our PO files:17:37
paulproteus"POT-Creation-Date: 2009-03-09 15:47-0700\n"17:38
paulproteusto this:17:38
paulproteus"POT-Creation-Date: 2009-03-09 15:47+0700\n"17:38
paulproteusI wrote tests that show the bug, and I'm finishing up the patch now...17:38
nkinkadeThat's great.   Somewhere in China that would be?17:38
nkinkadeOr India.17:38
paulproteusIndia is around there, but on a half time zone.17:38
mattldublin used be 12 mins behind london.17:38
nkinkadepaulproteus: I have to admit that I'm already in love with the idea of etckeeper.  I've already installed it on my laptops.17:39
nkinkadeI was totally wrong about my earlier assessment.17:39
paulproteusI'm so glad to hear that!17:39
paulproteusSo much that I said "Awesome" out loud.17:39
nkinkadeBy the way that Asus 1000HE Eee came in yesterday.17:40
paulproteusOh, sweet.17:40
paulproteusHence laptops.17:40
nkinkadeEverything works out-of-the-box with Ubuntu Intrepid, except for the Fn key combos.17:40
nkinkadeBut I've already got a Debian package in that mostly fixes it.  Now just need to do some minor hand tweaking of ACPI events.17:41
paulproteusSuper rad.17:41
nkinkademattl: Dublin was 12 mins behind London at one point? How long ago, out of curiosity?17:41
mattlsorry, 25.17:42
nkinkadeThat would be confusing as hell, but no less confusing that English standard measurements in general.17:43
paulproteusI'm not sure I agree.17:44
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nkinkadeI meant to say no more confusing.17:46
nkinkadeIf that changes your mind.17:46
paulproteusI mean, a 25m time zone is pretty weird.17:47
paulproteusI guess maybe that is about as weird as the rest of it, I dunno.17:47
mattli think they were measuring it in furlongs.17:47
paulproteusThat's a relief.17:47
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paulproteusMorning, nathany.18:48
nathanymorning paulproteus18:48
paulproteusHow's ETech?18:48
paulproteusThat good, huh?18:49
Bovinityoh boy, i can't wait18:49
nathanyit's fine... actually had a couple good conversations18:49
paulproteusOkay, that's good to hear.18:50
paulproteusnkinkade, Still having the buildout problems?19:11
nkinkadepaulproteus: Yeah.19:12
nkinkadeThere's no error, it just doesn't work as expected.19:12
paulproteusI'm curious if the PO files are of valid syntax.19:13
nkinkadeI see that the string I want is translated in cc/engine/i18n/po/.......19:13
nkinkadepaulproteus: Specifically I'm looking at license.what in the zh_HK PO file.19:13
nkinkadeIt's translated in that file and I would expect a buildout i18n install, then restart of cc.engine to make it visible, but it doesn't19:14
nathanynkinkade: is it translated in the CC style file?19:14
nathanyoh, nevermind19:14
nathanyjust re-read the path you typed19:14
nathany(and you mean buildout install i18n, right? not sure what reversing params would do)19:15
nkinkadenathany: Yeah.19:15
nkinkadeYou can search that file for license.what to get the string.19:16
nkinkadeYeah, sorry, I meant buildout install i18n19:16
nkinkadeI just checked the actual command I wrote.19:16
nkinkadeSo specifically I would expect this page to be translated http://staging.creativecommons.org/license/?lang=zh_HK19:17
nkinkadeBut that first paragraph remains in English.19:17
nkinkadenathany: Will you be available in the office a for a while this afternoon?19:32
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nathanynkinkade: yeah, i should be19:48
nathanyour shift is wrapping up in a bit, we'll have to drive back19:49
nkinkadenathany: I had some ideas of upgrading a5 today, though I'm open to other times, and it seems prudent to have you available in case of cc.engine troubles ... and it would probably also be good to have paulproteus around in case of a problem that could require more eyes.19:50
nkinkadeBut I guess we need to re-run buildout first.19:50
nkinkadeWhat's the best way to go about that?19:50
paulproteusI'll be at lunch 2-3 but otherwise will be around; I can even head to the office after lunch if desired.19:50
nkinkadeWe could just as easily do it tomorrow if today isn't great.19:51
nkinkadepaulproteus: Since the server is in L.A., I guess it's all the same whether you're at home or in the office. :-)19:51
paulproteusI meant mostly so nathany had someone in person to scream at.19:51
nathanynkinkade: so i'll be re-running the buildout when i push out the CC0 stuff19:52
nkinkadeI don't doubt that the site will have some downtime, but hopefully it wouldn't be more than 60 seconds or so.19:52
nkinkadenathany: And you'll run that against Python 2.5?19:53
nathanyi'd honestly rather wait until thursday or friday since today i need to focus on getting last minute edits done19:53
nathanyand tomorrow we're "announcing" CC0 @ ETech19:53
nkinkadenathany: Thursday or Friday is fine.19:53
nathanynkinkade: yup, i'll make sure it goes against 2.519:53
nkinkadeI'll do a8 instead, but there's a pending issue.19:53
nkinkadeAnd I guess we should do a7 at around the same time as a5 since it'll need a buildout against Python 2.5 also.19:54
nathanynkinkade: btw, a7 has the "new" bulidout and a5 will be getting it as well19:54
nathany(see my email last week re: heads up)19:54
nkinkadeYeah, I saw the email.  Maybe that has something to do with the i18n thing.19:55
nathanyhrm... maybe19:56
nathanyis there a ticket open for that i18n issue?19:56
nathanyi'm having some problems keeping track of things, so maybe you can open one and assign it to me?19:56
nathanynkinkade: ^^19:57
nkinkadenathany: I didn't  open a ticket because I wasn't 100% sure whether it was an issue or if I was just doing something wrong.19:58
nkinkadeI take that to mean that it appears to you to be an issue.19:58
nkinkadeI'll make a ticket.19:58
nathanynkinkade: if the string is there and it's not working, sounds like an issue19:59
nathany(and sounds similar to a few other i've squashed lately)19:59
nathanynkinkade: thanks for making a ticket; helps me keep my brain organized20:00
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zu22hi is anyone here a lawyer?20:04
ianwellerlawyers don't have time for IRC20:05
ianwellerwhat's your question, maybe we can give you non-legal advice20:06
zu22i compiled a huge list of annotated links and i want to make sure no one can just steal it from me and pass it off as their own, this is for a game i play and i have literally HUNDREDS of links i organized, listed and annotated20:06
zu22so i want to know how i can legally protect my work20:06
zu22and if someone steals my stuff i want to file DMCA complaint against them on my own (hiring lawyer is too expensive) so i wanna learn how do that also20:09
robmyersAssuming the annotations pass the threshold of originality in your jurisdiction, you will get copyright automatically, although it may help to register it in the US. DMCA takedowns are (far too) easy to do and you should be able to Google a howto for that. That is probably off topic for this channel though. Can I interest you in licensing your work with a Creative Commons licence? ;-)20:14
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nkinkadepaulproteus: Thanks for taking a look at the packages on a8.20:25
nkinkadeIf you run dist-upgrade, does the default solution look reasonable to you?20:25
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paulproteusI would:20:25
paulproteus$ sudo apt-get install aptitude apt dpkg20:25
paulproteus$ sudo apt-get install postfix ssh20:26
paulproteus$ sudo apt-get install mysql-server-5.020:26
paulproteusAnd then try a dist-upgrade.20:26
nkinkadeWhy granular?20:26
nkinkadeTo isolate any potential problems?20:26
paulproteusActually, I just removed one package that was causing some others to be held back (pbuilder).20:26
paulproteusYou should still install aptitude first; the aptitude in Lenny has special smarts about Etch->Lenny upgrade handling.20:27
paulproteusThat's mentioned in the release notes that nobody reads.20:27
ianwellertha'ts why i read release notes :P20:31
nkinkadeI had read something (not the release notes) a couple weeks ago about upgrading apt first, but I didn't do that on a6 or a9 and the upgrades seemed find in that respect, notwithstanding some other issues.20:32
paulproteusSure, "but you should anyway."20:32
paulproteusOT: http://black20.com/black20-trailer-park/300-pg-version20:33
zu22robmyers: sure, please tell me more about CC license20:33
robmyerssee http://creativecommons.org/ for more information20:34
zu22robmyers: ok will check it out :)20:35
zu22i want to make a footer that shows prominently the fact my website and wiki is protected by a license20:36
zu22so no one can claim ignorance20:36
ianwellerCC provides buttons and other things to stick in your footer to link to the license page on creativecommons.org20:38
zu22ianweller: cool20:41
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paulproteusa8 is back22:53
paulproteusAll it needed was the loving hand-holding of a fsck, or the patience to have one happen while we weren't looking.22:54
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nkinkadeSorry about the added downtown.  I just nervous when it didn't come back up after around 15 minutes, especially not being able to see what was going on.22:55
paulproteusMy beloved validator.creativecommons.org doesn't seem to do much loading, but I can check on that.22:56
paulproteususearch seems to return no results?22:57
paulproteusI don't know if that's normal, but unless otherwise indicated I'll consider my work here done.22:59
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paulproteusI'll file a ticket about the validator.22:59
paulproteus...well maybe I'll diagnose that now.22:59
nkinkadepaulproteus: usearch is now on a6.23:00
paulproteusAh, cool; it has a skeleton in /var/www/23:01
nkinkadeit's actually discovered.(cc).org on a6.23:01
paulproteusAh, of course.23:01
nkinkadeI do believe that we should remove usearch from a8, to avoid confusion.  I'll file a ticket.23:02
Bovinitylinnode alert!23:06
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nkinkadenathany: API 1.5 and dev are having some issues.23:09
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nkinkadeImportError: /var/www/api.creativecommons.org/api-1.5/eggs/lxml-2.1beta3-py2.4-linux-x86_64.egg/lxml/etree.so: undefined symbol: Py_InitModule423:10
nkinkadeI get that when I try to launch it in the foreground23:10
paulproteusI have the same prob for validator23:10
paulproteusI imagine a re-buildout will fix it23:10
nathanyis python2.4 still installed?23:10
paulproteusI'm doing it for validator now23:10
nathanya rebuildout is the first thing to try since that's in an egg that gets built23:10
nkinkadenathany: I'll buildout again.23:11
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nkinkadenathany: Now getting a buildout error related utidylib23:14
nathanynkinkade: is this on 1.5 or dev?23:14
nathanylet me look23:14
nkinkadeSorry to pull you away from the CC0 stuff.23:14
nkinkadeFor what it's worth, I get the same error on the buildout of api-devv23:15
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paulproteusnathany, nkinkade hey wait a sec23:17
paulproteusexceptions.ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/Redland.so: undefined symbol: Py_InitModule4_6423:17
paulproteusThat's in /usr/lib23:17
paulproteusThat's my validator error23:17
paulproteusis that your error too?23:17
paulproteusThen carry on23:17
nathanyoh, wait23:17
nathanynkinkade: did your error get truncated above?23:18
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paulproteusI mean for me the interesting bit is the /usr/lib part23:18
paulproteusyours is a in-tree built etree.so23:18
nkinkadeI don't think so, let me verify.23:18
nkinkadenathany: I can't test anymore because ./bin no longer has zdaemon.23:19
nathanycan you try in dev?23:19
nkinkadedev doesn't have zdaemon anymore either.23:19
nkinkadeBut my scroll buffer might have the answer.23:19
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nkinkadenathany: paulproteus: No, what I pasted was not truncated.23:20
paulproteusI figured as much23:20
nkinkadeBut the errors sure are similar.23:20
paulproteusLooks like Python 2.4 ABI changes, which is pretty harsh.23:20
* paulproteus just migrates validator to python 2.523:21
nathanypaulproteus: where did you drop the babel egg again?23:21
paulproteussame path as always23:21
paulproteusI don't know how to properly use setuptools versioning....23:21
nathanyok, i thought it was more generic... nevermind23:22
paulproteusI tried find_links but it didn't do what I want.23:22
nathanypaulproteus: it might do what you want if you omit the actual egg name23:22
nathanybut i don't have the cycles to think about it23:22
paulproteusYeah, no worries.23:22
paulproteusw00t, validator back up23:24
paulproteuson python2.523:24
paulproteusLet me know if I can help somehow.23:25
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nathanyi think i've got it...23:29
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nathany1.5 is back up23:32
nathanynkinkade: paulproteus: i just built the uTidylib egg myself23:33
nathanyadded find-links23:33
nathany(instead of dependency_links)23:33
nathanyrebuilding dev now23:33
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nkinkadenathany: What is something I could/should have known how to do?23:33
nathanyi suppose you could have, but not really any reason to expect it :)23:34
nathanyit's actually a setuptools/sourceforge bug23:34
nathanycan't decide who to blame, so i default to sourceforge :)23:34
nathanyi only knew because i'm the reporter :)23:35
nkinkadenathany: Just to be sure, there was a referece scgi in the old default Apache vhost ... is that not needed anymore?23:37
nathanyi have no idea23:37
nkinkadeAnd Nagios now reports all API servcies as being up.23:37
nkinkadeI think it was old, and for testing.23:37
paulproteusnathany, Awesome23:38
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nkinkadenathany: Is there any good way for me to investigate apparently 500 errors from cc.engine?23:44
nkinkadeThe ones Nagios is reporting.23:45
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nathanywell i'm guessing they're not from cc.engine23:45
nathanysince the engine is up and it's spewing errors about a7 generally as well as a5/license23:46
nathany(or are you referring to something other than the emails)23:46
nkinkadenathany:  I the errors may not be coming from cc.engine, but it's interesting that Nagios reports errors for /license/ on both a5 and a7.23:48
nkinkadeSurely an error related to the upgrade, but it'd help to know what cc.engine was actually saying to the Nagios plugin.23:49
nathanyso what page does nagios poll?23:49
nathanywhy would it be related to the upgrade when you haven't done a5 or a7 yet?23:49
nathany(and it started well after i did the push last night to staging)23:49
nkinkadenathany: It's supposed to just check http://creativecommons.org/license/23:51
nkinkade... for example.23:51
nkinkadeBut also /licenses/23:51
nkinkadeI mean the upgrade of Nagios.23:51
nathanyboth of those seem fine to me23:51
nathanyi didn't realize you upgraded nagios23:51
nkinkadeI just upgraded a8.CC and also nagios.CC23:52
nkinkadeProbably a mistake in retrospect.23:52
nkinkadeBut I figured there wasn't much harm in upgrading a the monitoring server.23:52
nkinkadeSo, it's clearly something wrong with Nagios and not the site, but it would be helpful to know what Nagios is requesting, if anything.23:53
nathanywell there's harm if our monitoring isn't working :)23:54
nathanyi don't think i have any insight that can help you on this one23:54
nkinkadeSo, in other words, there's no error log for cc.engine?23:56
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nkinkadeIt's possible that Nagios is so fucked that it's reporting totally bogus things, but it's also possible that it's just making bad requests and that cc.engine is truly returning 500 errors to Nagios.23:57
nkinkadeIt would just be nice, a la Apache error logs, to see why, if at all, cc.engine is returning 500 errors.23:58
nathanynkinkade: ah, i misunderstood23:59

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