Thursday, 2009-03-05

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mlinksvagreg-g: ``we just used #CC0 for a work in our #dScribe session (someone else's work, not ours). It hasn't even had its "Grand Opening" yet!''00:23
mlinksvabut cc0 is for waiving all restrictions you have on a work00:23
mlinksva(ie i'm confused by the "someone else's work" part)00:24
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greg-gmlinksva: I mean, they said they released the work with CC0, so we had to find the license url for our metadata purposes01:12
greg-gso, we found a work that is Zero'd, and we had to signify that in our records.  so, should have said "we just USED a CCO work..."01:13
mlinksvagreg-g: :)01:22
greg-gand I was having trouble typing that out, I wanted to say "a work released under the CC0 license...err" ... "released via CC0.."  -- "a work that has had all restrictions waived via CC0" is just too long.01:24
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mlinksvagreg-g: yeah, some discussion this afternoon about how to recommend talking about it01:57
mlinksva"released with/via/under CC0" is not bad01:58
greg-gmlinksva: ok, good to know.01:58
mlinksva"waiver" is definitely preferred if you wanted something in the place of "license"01:59
mlinksvapersonally, i'd like to tie to PD as much as possible, eg "work dedicated to the public domain with CC0" but that is also unweidly01:59
greg-g"released under the CC0 waiver" is ok sounding.02:00
greg-ghmm, good point02:00
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mlinksvashould have some more refined talking points around that in a day or so02:01
greg-gI would shy away from the word dedication so close to public domain just because of the defunt pd dedication02:01
greg-gYeah, figured. We're anxiously waiting for the blog post02:01
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greg-gadd a "c" up there02:02
greg-ganywhere you want, really, I'm just missing one :)02:02
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mlinksvagreg-g: yep, that confusion concern has been expressed. i'm not worried about it, reality is the existing PDDC is not a household name02:05
mlinksvamaybe we should say "pd release" or "pd waiver" instead of "pd dedication" for cc002:06
mlinksvapersonally i love the "no copyright" header on the deed ("no law" in some mockups was even better) and wish it was just called "no copyright" ... "work released under No Copyright" :)02:07
mlinksvaah well02:07
greg-ghaha, that'd be great02:08
mlinksvaI want an NC I can believe in :)02:08
mattlremember kids, NC is not cool cause there's no community.02:13
mattlmlinksva: finally got mod points on slashdot. so went back and modded all your stuff appropriately.02:14
mattl-1, Flamebait ;)02:14
mlinksvaopen mattl, thanks! :)02:16
mlinksvamattl: who needs community when you know the art of community?02:19
mattli can't read the book.02:19
mattli'm not permitted to use it commercially.02:19
mattlas soon as the FSF sells one more tshirt thanks to the book, O'Reilly police will get me.02:20
mlinksvaand you won't be able to plead the 5th02:22
mlinksva(it's severed)02:22
mattlit's okay. i abandoned my very large, oversized radio. now i no longer have to lug it around.02:25
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paulproteusadd a "c" cup there04:59
paulproteuswait, that's not what greg-g said )-:04:59
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MatsonFlickr doesn't offer a Creative Commons Public Domain option - from a comment in a disucssion group going on just now18:05
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nathanynkinkade: i want to completely shut down the license engine on labs18:29
nathanyif i edit the varnish VCL, will you give it a skim for me?18:29
nathany(sanity check)18:29
nathanynkinkade: i did the edits, if you can double check at your leisure i'd appreciate it18:31
nkinkadenathany: Sure.18:31
nkinkadeI'll check it now.18:31
nkinkadenathany: I don't see what you changed.  I guess this is one case where paulproteus' idea of etckeeper would be helpful.18:33
paulproteusetckeeper is the bomb diggety.18:34
nathanynkinkade: in the places where it checks for /licenses and /license, and then for hostname, i removed the set backend for zope_labs and replaced it with a pass18:34
nkinkadenathany: I might be missing something obvious, but do we need the if/then at all?  Why not just have all the /license stuff go right to zope_staging?18:35
nathanywell we still need the hostname check, right? otherwise will go to the staging instance (as opposed to apache where it gets redirected to production)_18:36
nathanynkinkade: ^^18:39
nkinkadenathany: Is Apache currently redirecting labs/license to production?18:41
nkinkadeIt shouldn't affect the /license/zero stuff because I've got other rules for that.18:41
nathanywe were talking about it here and it didn't seem to make sense to continue to run the whole license engine on labs, so i revved the redirects to send it to production18:42
nkinkadeThat is, do you want to shutdown cc.engine on labs 100%?18:42
nathanyjust in case someone is linking to it18:42
nkinkadeOh, I didn't know you had added rewrite rules for labs recently.18:43
johndoigiiinathany: would you like to meet today to coordinate the next few weeks with me?18:43
nathanynkinkade: i just did it 5 minutes ago18:43
nathanyjohndoigiii: yes18:43
nkinkadeIn that case, I guess everything seems fine.18:43
nathanyi have a meeting @ 11 which should go for 30 min, right after that?18:43
nathanysorry i didn't get to it yesterday, johndoigiii18:43
nathanythanks, nkinkade18:43
nkinkadeWe could potentially do redirects with varnish, but it seems much harder than with mod_rewrite.18:43
johndoigiiiokay, I will be out of the office 12-2:30 or so18:43
nathanynkinkade: harder and less obvious18:44
nkinkadenathany: Shall I restart Varnish?18:44
nathanyjohndoigiii: got it18:44
nathanynkinkade: sure18:44
nathanynkinkade: thanks18:44
nathanynkinkade: awesome18:45
nathanywe can go ahead and remove that from monitoring as well18:45
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nkinkadeI had misspelled the URL, but it doesn't seem to be working for
nkinkadenathany: ^^ Should your new rules have a RewriteCond of %{HTTP_HOST}
nkinkadeBecause there are some rewrite rules after it, though probably handled by Varnish nowadays.18:50
nathanynkinkade: those rules are in the site configuration so they should only apply to the site[s] defined in the virtual host, right?18:51
nkinkadeOh, damn, sorry.18:51
nkinkadeYou're right.18:51
nathanynp :)18:51
nkinkadeBut is that URL redirecting correctly for you.18:51
nkinkadeFor me it redirects to:‑oriented-metadata-validator-and-viewer-the-development-has-just-started/18:52
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paulproteusBovinity, OT: Do you know if there's a way to get from treasure island to the east bay without going back to SF first?18:52
nkinkadenathany: It also appears to me that your first rule negates the 2nd.18:52
nathanynkinkade: can you release your lock on the file?18:52
Bovinitypaulproteus: er, yes, there's a route out to the e.bay18:52
Bovinitypaulproteus: when you take the road back to the bridge, it forks, take the left fork18:53
paulproteusOh, I mean without a car.18:53
Bovinityno bus18:53
nkinkadenathany: The 2nd rule will never get processes, and I think those 2 rules can be combined into:18:53
BovinityTI is so awesome like that.18:53
nathanyright; i omitted a $18:53
nkinkadeRewriteRule ^/license/?(.*)$118:53
nkinkadeBetter: ^/license(/?.*)18:54
nathanynkinkade: yup, thanks18:55
Bovinitypaulproteus: do you find yourself stuck on treasure island?18:57
paulproteusBovinity, Luckily, no. (-:18:57
paulproteusA friend on #noisebridge was just wondering.18:57
paulproteusMaybe she plans to be stuck there later.18:57
nkinkadenathany: I guess you'll combine the 2nd set of rules too ... and I also suppose we can delete all the subsequent ^/license rules, as they are caught earlier now.18:57
nkinkade(and ^/licenses)18:57
nkinkadenathany: I made the change above, and I also fixed a problem with creativecommons.vcl.  We were setting req.url *before*  the if/then, so we were passing a mangled URL to Apache which would explain why it was producing such unexpected results like redirecting to‑oriented-metadata-validator-and-viewer-the-development-has-just-started/ for no apparent reason.  It seems to be worki19:08
paulproteus"It seems to be worki"[trunc]19:11
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mecredisnathany: there?19:43
nathanymecredis: in a mtg, what's up?19:43
mecredisah, just some license deed / rdfa questions19:44
mecredisand possible bug19:44
mecredisjust ping me when you're free19:44
mecredisbut check
mecredisand click through to the license19:44
mecredisdeed is showing @ as %4019:45
greg-gmecredis: the source of the originating page has %4019:46
greg-g<a href="
mecrediswill ask why they didn't use @19:46
* greg-g nods19:47
mattlanti-spam, maybe.19:47
greg-gwell done implementation of the license info, though19:47
Bovinitydodgy anti-spam19:47
paulproteusI guess that's URL encoding.19:47
paulproteusIn theory that should be a safe thing to do.19:48
mecredisyeah, I've been working with them for a while19:48
greg-gpaulproteus: so the cc engine should see that and convert it to an @?19:48
mecrediswe're about to launch it / push out a press release19:48
greg-gmecredis: cool19:48
mecredisdoing mv_embed / html 5 / ogg on the blog19:48
mecrediswith a fall back to flash19:49
mecredisshould be interesting19:49
paulproteusYay mv_embed.19:49
mecredisand it works on staging19:49
mecredisthough you have to force width & height19:49
mecredisoh no that was my error, nm19:50
nathanygreg-g: mecredis: the problem isn't the license engine, it's the javascript that doens't decode it properly... :(19:50
paulproteusTheora-preferring, Free Software-preferring video embedder19:50
mecredishrm, still screwing up my aspect ratio19:51
paulproteusmecredis, Be a pal and try to fix the JS? (-;19:51
paulproteusOr file a ticket.19:51
* paulproteus gets back to staff call bot stuff for now19:51
mecredispaulproteus: hrm wait19:51
* paulproteus waits19:51
mecrediswhere would the JS be fixed?19:51
Bovinitymecredis: be a pal and publish the post onto staging19:51
mecredismv_embed is pickin gup on it19:52
Bovinityhmmm, that's weird19:52
mecredisbut not sizing it properly19:52
paulproteusmecredis, I'm not sure, somewhere on that deed...19:53
Bovinitywow, it's really broken in Fx3.019:53
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greg-ginteresting use of CC+, not for commercial purposes, but for publicity rights.19:53
mecrediswell its a little of both19:54
mecredisyou could use CC+ for BY19:54
mecredisyeah, mv_embed really doesn't like 3.019:54
mecredisit may just ahve to default to whatever ogv player there is19:55
Bovinitywell it's saying the video doesn't exist any more19:55
mecredisit must be getting confused about the url19:56
mecrediseh, I think we should pass on mv_embed19:56
mecredisfor now19:56
mecredis works19:56
Bovinitydoes it use <video> correctly too?19:58
mecredisit just doesn't 'upgrade' to the installed player19:58
mecredison FF 3.119:58
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mecredisand defaults, I think, to flash on 3.019:58
Bovinityyeah, flash fallback works19:59
mecredisyeah, going to run with that19:59
paulproteus(Fx 3.1...)20:00
Bovinitymecredis: maybe make a note in the post that it's using <video> where available20:00
Bovinityfor effect20:00
mecredisyeah, will have a * at the bottom20:00
mecredisand maybe follow up when b3 drops20:00
mecredisabout it more officially20:00
greg-gpaulproteus: why Fx instead of FF? since it is one word not two?20:01
paulproteusNo idea why, but MoCo insists.20:02
greg-gI read that as efex, as in SFX, special effects20:03
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paulproteusSpecial Firefox20:08
mecredisanyone know how to get resolution of an ogg file?20:14
mecredislike W x H ?20:14
mecredisVLC is silent20:14
mecrediseh nm20:15
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mattlmecredis: install ogg-tools.20:36
mattlthere's a bunch of useful things there which will save you time.20:37
greg-gmecredis: nice link to the flash wikipedia article :)20:37
greg-gI think you just got some points from mattl20:38
* mattl hugs mecredis 20:38
mecrediskindle is almost there20:39
mecredisI cracked the screen20:39
mecredisI mean I'd rather try it out20:39
mattli can send you a rock in the mail if you like20:39
mecredisand decide it sucks20:39
mattlare you coming to boston on the 21st/22dn?20:40
mecredisof March?20:40
mecredishrm, have trips on either side20:40
mecredisits FSF ?20:40
paulproteusmattl, I yam.20:41
mattlpaulproteus: yes, you and mlinksva are on my list.20:41
mattlmecredis: yeah, come up man.20:41
mecredisit might be a last minute decision20:42
mecredisbut yeah20:42
mecredisthanks for the heads up20:42
paulproteusI'm going to go offline to eat lunch and take my bike the shop; see y'all office-dwellers around two.20:42
robmyersmattl when you say on your list...20:56
mlinksvayeah, i finally bought my plane tickets, arriving around 5pm thu, will hang out fri at SC if anyone's there, leaving mon morn20:56
robmyersmlinksva you're going to be at libre planet?20:57
robmyersoh cool. I'm going to be there as well20:57
mlinksvacool.  i guess we've never met f2f oddly enough20:57
robmyersthe internet does things like that...20:58
mlinksvait sure made me stupid20:58
robmyersheh. I'd dispute that. don't tell mattl, but the last even I was in the states for was Apple's WWDC. Mind you that was in 2000...21:00
robmyerseven -> event21:02
mlinksvai'm proud to be a lifelong apple hater21:12
mlinksvawell, only semi-proud, it is kind of irrational21:12
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robmyersI've been in recovery from Apple for a few years now21:19
mattlrobmyers: mlinksva is far more pleasant IRL21:30
mattlmlinksva: watch out for that myers character. bit of a douchebag offline, tbh.21:31
mattli moved to boston to get away from him.21:33
paulproteusI'm eating lunch in the Mission to steer clear of him.21:33
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paulproteusBTW I just got the umbrella removed from my bike.21:33
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paulproteusSo the standard Debian package builder, pbuilder, uses a chroot.21:51
paulproteusI'm setting up qemubuilder and package builds will now happen in a qemu. (Advantage: I can compile for any architecture!)21:51
mecredisis there any reason you guys can tell21:53
mecrediswhy the deeds aren't scraping uncensored intervbiew pages21:53
mecredisshouldn't it be generating a little attribution link21:53
mecrediswhen referred from21:53
paulproteusCC+ comes in fine.21:54
paulproteusLet's see about attribution...21:54
* paulproteus uses validator.creativecommons.org21:54
mecredisit works on this site:21:54
paulproteusAnd this validator doesn't appear to be aware of anything but the license predicate. Weird.21:54
mecredisvalidator seems to like it21:55
mecredisI'm thinking it might be because of the javascript21:55
paulproteusOh, is the data not there until you click the button?21:55
mecrediswell it is21:55
mecredisI think it just renders it21:55
paulproteusLet me see.21:55
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mecredis<div class='license'>21:56
mecredis            <a href="" id="license_toggle" rel="license"><img alt="Creative Commons License" src="" /></a>21:56
mecredis            <div id='license'>21:56
mecredis              <span class='license_vlog_title' href='' property='dc:title' rel='dc:type' xmlns:dc=''>Matthew Dear: The More, the Better</span>21:56
mecredis              by21:56
mecredis              <a href="" property="cc:attributionName" rel="cc:attributionURL" xmlns:cc="">Uncensored Interview</a>21:56
mecredis              is licensed under a21:56
mecredis              <a href="" rel="license">Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 United States License</a>.21:56
mecredis              The license prohibits use of the work in any manner that implies endorsement by the author.  The privacy and publicity rights of individuals appearing in the interview are not affected in any way by the license. Permissions beyond the scope of this license are available by contacting21:56
mecredis              <a href=",+the+Better+(11222)" rel="cc:morePermissions" xmlns:cc="">licensing at</a>.21:56
mecredis            </div>21:56
mecrediswrong window21:56
paulproteusSeems okay.21:56
paulproteus finds it properly.21:57
paulproteusnope21:57 != creativecommons.org21:57
mecredisof course21:58
mecredisThat's really funny.21:58
paulproteusDo a global search and replace of -> and you'll probably do fine.21:58
paulproteusMakes me want to register and make that RDF mean something tragic.21:59
paulproteus(I know, the RDF is just an opaque identifier, but anyone who goes to would learn what I want it to mean.)21:59
paulproteusLike how this year in the Mystery Hunt there was a puzzle entitled Petwitter which referred the nonexistent domain
paulproteusSo I bought it and made it Redirect to
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mecredispaulproteus: createcommons -> creativecommons on
paulproteusmecredis, Great, it all works!22:33
mlinksvapaulproteus: " the RDF is just an opaque identifier"22:33
paulproteusThat was one *awesome* bug.22:33
mlinksvaaren't you missing a word or something?22:33
mecredisyeah, that was pretty fun22:33
* paulproteus giggles.22:33
mecredisoh spelling errors22:34
paulproteusThose pesky humans.22:34
nathanynkinkade: fyi zope seems cool with python 2.5 these days22:36
nathanybut we'll need to re-buildout which will take some time22:36
nathanywe should probably do that before the upgrade (assuming python2.4 and 2.5 are both there right now)22:36
nkinkadenathany: Cool.  I'll arrange with you before I do any upgrades.22:37
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paulproteusmlinksva, Precisely which flight are you taking eastward?23:06
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mlinksvaThu, Mar 19, 2009 San Francisco, CA (SFO) to Boston, MA (BOS)23:17
mlinksvaUnited 017223:17
mlinksvaDepart: SFO 8:2523:17
mlinksvaArrive: BOS 17:00 Non-stop23:17
mlinksva5h 35m23:17
mlinksvapaulproteus: ^23:17
paulproteusWeird, you're not a Virgin flight!23:17
paulproteuss/not a/not on a/23:17
mlinksvawhy's that weird?23:17
paulproteusI thought everybody loved Virgin.23:18
paulproteusPower and wifi!23:18
mlinksvai didn't know they had power and wifi23:18
paulproteusPlus Linux entertainment consoles.23:18
mlinksvai've only been on it once or twice23:18
mlinksvayeah i know about that, but i never use any backseat console23:19
paulproteusI've used Virgin's to order food before.23:19
paulproteusThat's about it, I suppose.23:19
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mlinksvai never order food either on planes. nothing exists but me and the drone of jet engines23:20
mlinksvaand i don't understand being in love with a company. the 2nd of two times i took virgin america, in the self checkin thing they had an attendant, and the person next to me checking in painfully went on and on about how "innovative" virgin service is. it was really emabarrassing. but honestly, it looked like united's price and timing was competitive, so i booked directly with them, since that's the one i have most miles with23:25
mlinksvaps I wish virgin used apple entertainment consoles so i could really hate them23:28
robmyersvirmin have wifi?23:28
robmyersI'm coming over on virmin...23:28
robmyersI was hoping to get offline for about a working day ;-)23:29
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mlinksvai think it is effectively a different company because the US can't let the terrorists win and have a domestic airline be British23:29
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mlinksvawow, and
mlinksvaotoh it's pretty sad that in 2009 that making available in an open format adds anything at all to a story (as opposed to just being ubiq)23:37
mecredisI agree23:38
mecredisnice post23:38
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kreynenIs anyone here going to be in Austin during SXSW?23:51
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kreynenI'd like to get someone from CC to talk to channelAustin about CC licensing while we're there.23:53
BovinityCC will have a booth at SxSW23:54
kreynengreat... unfortunately everyone from Denver Open Media with badges is already using and promoting CC23:55
kreynenchannelAustin is part of the Knight NewsChallenge funded Open Media Project, but they don't want to use CC licensing23:55
nathanykreynen: send an email to; i'll forward it on to the people who will be there23:56
nathany(just put at the top "nathany on irc said to send this" :)23:56
kreynennathany: thanks23:57
nathanysure :)23:57
nathanyok, i'm heading home... i'll forward that when it comes through, kreynen23:58
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