Monday, 2008-11-10

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Dornehello01:55
Dornewhat's the best way to start modifying someone else's image to put on my site using this creative commons license?01:55
Dornehttp://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/deed.en_CA01:55
DorneThe steps I know I need are:01:56
Dorne(1) to keep intact any copyright notices for the Work; (2) credit the author, licensor and/or other parties (such as a wiki or journal) in the manner they specify; (3) the title of the Work; and (4) the URL for the work if applicable.01:56
Dorne3 and 4 are fine01:56
Dornebut I'm kind of fuzzy with steps 1 and 201:56
greg-gDorne: whatever you produce should have some way to find the original work/work's author01:57
greg-gso, simply a "original can be found <link>here</link>" would be good01:58
Dornenumbers 3 and 4 cover that I believe01:58
Dornebut do I still need to take care of 1 and 2?01:58
greg-gright, yes.01:59
greg-gFor 1) you will need to display the license (either with an image or link)01:59
greg-gand 2, 3, and 4 can be satisfied by the same link01:59
Dorneso "some rights reserved" with a hyperlink to the license is fine?02:00
Dornethis is a flickr image btw02:00
DorneAlright, then I believe that I'll be alright then02:01
DorneI get a little paranoid when it comes to licenses02:01
greg-gYeah, only the prefered text is to actually tell which license like "Licensed under CC:BY-NC-SA"02:01
Dorneah02:01
greg-galso: http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Marking_Image02:01
greg-gand http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Marking02:01
greg-g"licensed under CC:BY-NC-SA" or something similar, I should say02:02
greg-gjust because "some rights reserved" is very ambiguous, and if you can fit a few more characters there, more information is better :)02:02
DorneIt never hurts02:02
Dornethanks02:02
greg-gno worries02:03
DorneHow does this look?02:11
DorneSome rights reserved. <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/deed.en_CA">Licensed under CC:BY-NC-SA</a>. Adapted from "original name" at <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/#/#">http://www.flickr.com/photos/#/#/</a>.02:11
greg-gDorne: looks good.02:22
Dornealright02:26
Dornehad to shorten it by taking out "original name" because my encoding doesn't allow asian characters02:33
greg-gDorne: that should be ok.  Really, as long as you have that link to the original image on flickr and the license info, you're good02:34
Dornewhew02:35
DorneI'm thinking of starting an ascii site that features images under cc licenses that allows modifying the original (to change to ascii format) and public domain02:38
Dorneand making it lynx compatible02:38
Dornelike this: http://lefthandman.110mb.com/02:39
Dornealthough I have to change my ascii converter so that it doesn't use < or & s. I had to manually change them to html &lt; and &amp;02:40
Dornesomething not good when you want to share it02:40
greg-gthat'd be interesting02:45
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doggymenzwhy is there no license without attribution?03:02
doggymenzattribution sucks03:02
doggymenzbut then again, if you not gonna use attribution, might as well do public domain ;)03:02
DorneWell, I'm off03:30
Dornethanks again03:31
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tryggvibHello07:09
tryggvibI wanted to ask regarding cc-nc, non-commercial, does that include not-in-a-commercial-environment?07:10
tryggvibSo my idea is to collect a lot of cc'd christmas music and give a collection to stores which could play it in the x-mas rush (and put up a poster with the artists' names and cc info)07:11
tryggvibIf the cc'd music is nc would that be disallowed?07:12
tryggvibso basically my question is, can cc-nc-* be used for indirect commercial purposes (that is a part of a commercial environment)07:13
tryggvibThey would not be making money directly of the cc'd music07:14
tryggvibit would just help set the mood07:14
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vinhtantranHello, could I ask a question about translating CC?18:17
paulproteusSure!18:17
vinhtantranwhen I suggest translation via Pootle, who will review the translation?18:19
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nkinkadevinhtantran: The project leads in each respective jurisdiction would be the ones to review suggestions.18:32
nkinkadeAnd they would be the ones who could accept it or choose to translate it themselves.18:32
vinhtantranthank you for your answering, hope my translation will help, in the future, of course :(18:34
nkinkadevinhtantran: Which language?18:35
vinhtantranVietnamese18:35
vinhtantranI hear that CC will publish Vietnamese next year18:35
nkinkadevinhtantran: Yes, they are in the process of porting the licenses.18:35
nkinkadeSo I expect that your suggestions will be helpful.  Thanks!18:36
vinhtantranI also take part in Vietnamese localization for Firefox 3.1, they are intended to embed CC search into that browser, I hope the Vietnamese CC Search GUI will be port first, for a pure Vietnamese browser, you know18:37
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paulproteusSomeone should consider tryggvib's earlier question.19:08
paulproteusI'm going to work on other stuff for now.19:08
paulproteusHowdy greg-g.19:08
greg-gpaulproteus: you mean like that ............ how did you know I was typing?19:08
paulproteusMagique.19:09
greg-ganyways, you mean like that study which was announced a bit ago to explain what is and isn't commercial use?19:09
tryggvibgreg-g: yes, I would like to know19:09
greg-gtryggvib: we all would :)19:10
tryggvibisn't this known19:10
greg-gI'm not the best person to ask, IANAL and all19:10
nkinkadetryggvib: It's not really known.19:10
tryggvibor is this one of the misteries lawyers know ... or maybe they don't even know19:11
* greg-g will be back in 20ish mins, going to pub to do more work19:11
Bovinitygreg-g: does not compute19:12
nkinkadetryggvib: Even if CC is able to add some bounds to the issue, to help make it clearer, it's still as you say.   When all is said and done, it may come down to what a lawyer can convincingly argue in court.19:12
tryggvibinteresting19:12
nkinkadetryggvib: I say these things not being a lawyer.19:13
tryggvibof course19:13
nkinkadeBut from what I can tell, there is very little in the realm of law that is black and white.19:13
paulproteussvn: Can't connect to host 'svn.zope.org': Connection refused19:13
* paulproteus sighs.19:13
tryggvibI wish laws were more like computers, 0 or 1, yes or no19:13
nkinkadeOne court rules something, then another higher court strikes it down, then 10 years later someone challenges it and it is ruled in favor of.19:13
nkinkadeThat kind of thing.19:14
nkinkadetryggvib: That said, I have this sense that too many people stumble on the NC issue, and unecessarily.19:14
nkinkadeMy feeling is that good, reasonable and thoughtful caution is probably enough.19:15
tryggvibI've been trying to read the legal code which allows publicly performing19:15
nkinkadeYou can sit around for days, weeks or years arguing whether some edge case is commercial use or not.19:16
tryggvibbut restricts as it says: You may not exercise any of the rights granted to You in Section 3 above in any manner that is primarily intended for or directed toward commercial advantage or private monetary compensation19:16
nkinkadeI have a feeling that most people who publish with a CC license are not generally about nit-picking and worrying so much about edge cases.19:16
tryggvibwell distributing them in stores is a rather large thing, it's not like I'm giving it to friends19:17
nkinkadeAnd even beyond that, are they really going to sue someone, for example, for using an NC image on a blog with Google Adsense?19:17
tryggvibI will probably contact the authors in beforehand to be certain19:18
tryggvibthat's probably the best way to be sure19:18
nkinkadeI have this feeling that for the situations where it may really matter, it will involve something easily commercial, in which case there will be lawyers guiding the way.19:18
nkinkadetryggvib: That is always a great way around it.19:18
paulproteusgreg-g, BTW, if you want to do me a favor involving code, I'd love help figuring out why the liblicense test suite prefers the system build of liblicense, when it seems to me it should be set up properly to prefer the as-yet-uninstalled build that is being tested.19:19
nkinkadeThere no point in Bill, sitting in Houston, TX, looking to file suit against, Tom in California for having used an NC image in some marginal case.19:19
nkinkadeWhat's he going to get out of Tom, and how much will it cost him in the first place.  Most likely Bill will say: Tom, WTF?  That's commercial use, please take it down, and Bill will probably comply.19:20
tryggvibTrue19:21
tryggvibI'm considering this for Iceland which is further away from Houston than California is19:21
tryggvib:)19:21
nkinkade:-)19:22
tryggvibBut still I believe author's consent is the correct thing to do since we're talking about a blurry/gray area19:22
nkinkadeSo my basic thought for personal-type use is to be thoughtful and considerate.  If you really a doubt, then just contact the copyright holder or look for a non-NC work.19:23
nkinkadeAnd it sounds like that's exactly what you've come to. :-)19:23
tryggvibyup :)19:24
tryggviba bit more work but still worth it19:24
nkinkadetryggvib: Good luck with that.  I know I didn't answer anything, but hopefully the dialog was useful in some way.19:25
tryggvibit was19:29
tryggvibthank you19:29
tryggvibjust to know that there are others in the community that don't really know either (as you said many are tripping over the NC issue) makes me feel a bit smarter :)19:30
nkinkadeIt's a big issue for a lot of people.  I get a lot of emails to info@creativecommons.org about it.19:31
* tryggvib thinks that mathematicians should write laws if we would build our society from scratch19:36
nkinkadetryggvib: I should also point you to a tool that CC Norway put together: http://www.creativecommons.no/ncguide/19:42
nkinkadeIt's not definitive, but it could help some people get a general idea.19:43
tryggvibthanks nkinkade19:44
greg-gpaulproteus: if you could explain that a little further I might be able to help by adding a another set of eyes.19:46
paulproteusgreg-g, Well, so if you uninstall liblicense and then run ./configure and then 'make check', you'll see virtually all of the tests fail.19:47
paulproteusThat's because it tries to use the system liblicense and fails.19:47
paulproteusThat makes testing annoying.19:47
greg-ghmmm19:47
greg-gsorry, i needed a new git clone of liblicense, and I'm on a 80k/s wifi connection at the pub20:06
BovinityBeer-over-IP strikes again20:09
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greg-gpaulproteus: http://paste.lisp.org/display/7008920:11
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greg-gpaulproteus: regarding the paste: should those suggestions be done?20:20
paulproteusgreg-g, libflac-dev20:21
paulproteusYou need.20:21
paulproteusI wouldn't worry about the warnings above that for now, but I'm no autoconf expert.20:22
greg-gpaulproteus: k20:22
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* greg-g wonders how that and libraptor were not installed on his system20:25
paulproteushyphen dev.20:28
greg-gpaulproteus: yeah, just didn't want to type it out here :)20:29
paulproteusSure, I mean, lacking -dev packages makes more sense than lacking lib* packages.20:30
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paulproteusHowdy mecredis.20:30
greg-gpaulproteus: I have 5 of 11 tests failing20:31
paulproteusMake sure you don't have liblicense installed on your system.20:31
greg-gI don't20:31
paulproteus"Awesome."20:31
greg-gheh20:31
paulproteusI think most of them are failing probably due to it being not system-wide installed.20:31
paulproteusMost, but certainly possibly not all.20:32
* greg-g nods20:33
greg-gI just installed liblicense3 and reran autogen and make check, same number of failures20:35
paulproteusHmm.20:36
greg-gif that says anything20:36
paulproteusbrb, lunch.22:04
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nkinkadepaulproteus: Do you happen to know of a good way to convert an SWF file to something that mencoder or ffmpeg can handle without recompiling?23:13
Bovinitynkinkade: ffmpeg shold accept a linear SWF movie without issue23:17
nkinkadeBovinity: In Ubuntu?>23:17
Bovinityi'm pretty sure, yes23:18
nkinkadeI tried it, it can handle the sound, but not the video.23:18
nkinkadeApparently.23:18
Bovinitywhat are you trying to convert?23:18
nkinkadeAnd SWF file that was sent to me by a someone in Argentina.23:18
nkinkadeBovinity: If I sent it to you do you think you would be able to easily convert it?23:18
nkinkadeIt's a quite good Spanish version of the "Get Creative" video.23:19
Bovinityi can probably get QT or Flash to convert it23:19
Bovinityoh23:19
nkinkadeAnd I think that some of the Spanish-speaking jurisdictions may like it, and we could also link to it from support.23:19
Bovinityi can try23:21
nkinkadeI'm uploading it right now.23:22
nkinkadeLink forthcoming.23:22
nkinkadeBovinity: http://a7.creativecommons.org/~nkinkade/get_creative_spanish.swf23:45
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paulproteusIt can be that hard / if Adobe is the intermediary.23:48
nkinkadepaulproteus: Did you mean to say "can't"?  Or was that intentional.23:51
paulproteusIt is an ironic twist on the "Get Creative" video slogan that starts and ends it.23:51
nkinkadeWent right over my head.23:52
Bovinitynkinkade: nope. if they can send us the FLA file (hwich they should, since it's cc by), then things would be faaaaarrr easier.23:55
nkinkadeBovinity: That was the conclusion I have to on Friday after actually compiling with ffmpeg with lib-faad and lib-faac (???) support.  So on Friday evening I emailed him asking if he could send it in another format. :-)23:57
nkinkade(sorry about the grammar.  heavens!)23:58
Bovinitynkinkade: i found it odd that QuickTime wouldn't even open it. It usually works. :/23:58

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