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| greg-g | heh | 01:22 |
|---|---|---|
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| jibot | davidstrauss is "P" and not "P" | 01:42 |
| davidstrauss | ?karma c | 01:43 |
| jibot | c has 1685 points | 01:43 |
| rejon | ?karma rejon | 01:56 |
| jibot | rejon has 2 points | 01:56 |
| rejon | nothing | 01:56 |
| rejon | http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/06/19/eveningnews/main4197525.shtml | 01:56 |
| rejon | that should get me some karma | 01:56 |
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| davidstrauss | rejon++ | 03:23 |
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| hdworak | is there any human-readable comprehensive list of all cc licenses ever published? including software ones? | 08:04 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: regarding our previous discussion about regex for comments: this would only work for a document that does not contain CDATA | 08:14 |
| hdworak | because in CDATA such thing is allowed: <![CDATA[ <!--abc--> ]]> and the "abc" is not in a comment :) so first one has to canonicalize the XML or at least parse CDATA to PCDATA | 08:16 |
| hdworak | both rel and type attributes are optional for elements "a" and "link" | 08:23 |
| hdworak | do we ignore the case where someone does <link href="mylicensewithoutevenanrdfextension" /> or <a href="mylicensewithoutevenanrdfextension">under these conditions</a> ? | 08:24 |
| hdworak | otherwise we would have to analyse *all* the hyperlinks on a Web page | 08:25 |
| hdworak | could we narrow the scope to the "link" and "a" elements that have either meta or license as one of its "rel" relationships? | 08:26 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, Don't use regexps. | 09:27 |
| paulproteus | Use an XML/SGML/BeautifulSoup parser. | 09:27 |
| paulproteus | It'll hand you comment objects. | 09:27 |
| paulproteus | Ta-da. | 09:27 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, Yes we ignore those - we say "No CC license found". | 09:28 |
| hdworak | yes, I remember we decided to use BeautifulSoup, that was just a follow-up to a theoretical discussion | 09:31 |
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| jibot | greg-g is "developing" the "community" for "creative commons" | 09:34 |
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| hdworak | paulproteus: can "DC.rights.license" be used as a valid link type for a license? what about "DC.rights" alone? | 09:39 |
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| hdworak | ok, I assume it's possible, because of http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Extend_Metadata#In_META | 09:44 |
| hdworak | does DC.rights in as a link type have any meaning whatsoever if no profile URI for the "head" element has been specified? | 09:45 |
| hdworak | I assume that <meta name="license" (w/o the "dc:" prefix) does not mean anything | 09:47 |
| hdworak | actually, scratch that, it seems that many people provide license information this way (20,800 hits on Google) | 09:48 |
| hdworak | http://www.google.pl/search?hl=pl&q=meta+name%3D%22license%22&start=10&sa=N | 09:49 |
| hdworak | wow, some ppl even do name="license_uri" cf. http://code.zhdk.ch/projects/schnipsel/browser/themes/wordpress/techmonkey2/header.php?rev=208 | 09:51 |
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| jibot | Steren is sitting next to greg-g and from Nancy | 10:18 |
| hdworak | did creativecommons ever recommended embedding/linking RDF in other form than application/rdf+xml ? | 10:26 |
| hdworak | like n3, for instance | 10:26 |
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| NickGarvey | what does the "by" in cc-by mean? | 10:28 |
| paulproteus | Attribution. | 10:28 |
| paulproteus | It's explained if you click on a link to the license. | 10:28 |
| paulproteus | Attribution means "giving credit". | 10:28 |
| paulproteus | So "saying who it's by". | 10:28 |
| NickGarvey | I mean I know what attribution means and everything the licensee needs to do - ah alright | 10:28 |
| NickGarvey | I wasn't sure why it was "by" instead of "at" or something | 10:28 |
| paulproteus | It's an old abbreviation. (-: | 10:29 |
| NickGarvey | alright, thanks | 10:29 |
| hdworak | hey, what about http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/types.html#type-links rel="Copyright" | 10:30 |
| hdworak | is it abandonned? | 10:30 |
| hdworak | it's in HTML 4.01 in contrast to license | 10:30 |
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| Steren | arf, interns are the first at the office | 10:48 |
| Steren | It could be better if they had the key :) | 10:48 |
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| jibot | greg-g is "developing" the "community" for "creative commons" | 10:54 |
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| hdworak | I've found the urllib's open_data is suitable for handling "data:" URL scheme | 10:58 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, Super rad! | 11:01 |
| hdworak | hold on | 11:01 |
| paulproteus | Steren, Ouch! | 11:01 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, I don't know re: HTML 4.01 rel="Copyright" | 11:01 |
| hdworak | I'm uploading a .txt that I want the contents to appear on the Wiki later on | 11:01 |
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| hdworak | is cc position such that the second rel="license" is equivalent to rel="alternative license" ? | 11:02 |
| paulproteus | I don't know rel="alternative license" | 11:02 |
| paulproteus | Does rel="" say that the contents are space-separated values, like class="thing1 thing2"? | 11:02 |
| hdworak | yes, exactly | 11:03 |
| paulproteus | Then sure, I suppose it would be, although it's weird. | 11:03 |
| hdworak | that was one of the flaws of nathany's regex in cctools | 11:03 |
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| paulproteus | ajbrooks, There are still muffins etc., right? | 11:03 |
| ajbrooks | yep | 11:04 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: could you please have a look at the questions above? | 11:04 |
| hdworak | 1. did creativecommons ever recommended embedding/linking RDF in other form than application/rdf+xml ? like n3, for instance | 11:05 |
| hdworak | 2. does DC.rights in as a link type have any meaning whatsoever if no profile URI for the "head" element has been specified? | 11:05 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, I think we never did, although in principle that's valid. | 11:06 |
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| paulproteus | re: 1 | 11:06 |
| hdworak | 3. is there any human-readable comprehensive list of all cc licenses ever published? including software ones? | 11:06 |
| paulproteus | re: 3: creativecommons.org/licenses/index.rdf ? | 11:07 |
| paulproteus | I think that's the closest we get. | 11:07 |
| hdworak | human-readable... | 11:07 |
| hdworak | ok, how about 1 and 2? | 11:07 |
| paulproteus | re: 2: I don't know the DC-rights standard, but you're welcome to (a) read the docs for DC rights and (b) suggest people switch to rel="license" (or add it) | 11:07 |
| paulproteus | re: 1: <paulproteus> hdworak, I think we never did, although in principle that's valid. | 11:07 |
| hdworak | so rel="license" is just microformat? | 11:08 |
| paulproteus | Well, it's RDFa too. | 11:08 |
| hdworak | and RDFa starts with rel="cc: etc.? | 11:08 |
| hdworak | no | 11:08 |
| hdworak | additional attributes even | 11:08 |
| hdworak | and what about this typeof vs instanceof | 11:08 |
| hdworak | I see recent works that use one over another | 11:09 |
| paulproteus | I don't know, that's an interesting question; I'm going to head out for now. | 11:09 |
| paulproteus | Bed Adida will know re: typeof vs. instanceof, or I can read the documentation, or you could too maybe. | 11:09 |
| hdworak | the docs contradict each other | 11:10 |
| hdworak | that's why I'm asking | 11:10 |
| paulproteus | I see. | 11:10 |
| paulproteus | You know what I just realized? There's a cc-metadata list with Ben and NY on it. | 11:10 |
| hdworak | on principle, I do read stuff before I come up with these questions :) | 11:10 |
| paulproteus | Okay (-: | 11:10 |
| paulproteus | In that case, I don't know, if the docs contradict each other. | 11:11 |
| hdworak | http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/CR-rdfa-syntax-20080612/#rdfa-attributes vs. http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-rdfa-primer/#publishing-an-event | 11:12 |
| hdworak | both documents at most 3 months old; one mentions instanceof but doesn't mention typeof; the other does reversal | 11:12 |
| paulproteus | Email the authors and CC: me, and let them fight it out (-; | 11:13 |
| paulproteus | Anyway, time to go to the office. | 11:13 |
| hdworak | :) | 11:13 |
| hdworak | http://rafb.net/p/CBRXDZ64.txt | 11:14 |
| hdworak | the contents I thought would be worth putting on the wiki | 11:14 |
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| jibot | bovinity is brilliant | 11:15 |
| hdworak | wow, I've found a bug in rafb.net | 11:15 |
| hdworak | paste "([^:>'"]+:" and you get "([^:>'"]+:" | 11:16 |
| hdworak | :D | 11:16 |
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| jibot | ftobia is head of RPI Free Culture and thinks censorship is generally to be frowned upon | 11:18 |
| hdworak | ok, notified the author | 11:25 |
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| jibot | davidstrauss is "P" and not "P" | 11:32 |
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| hdworak | do you see anything wrong with <object type="application/rdf+xml" data="metadata.rdf"></object> ? | 11:48 |
| hdworak | where metadata.rdf is a file in the same folder as the document? | 11:48 |
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| ftobia | nathany: i've got a quick buildout/entry-point question. i'll be there in a sec. | 11:55 |
| bovinity | sudo make me a sandwich | 11:55 |
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| paulproteus | lol, bovinity | 12:05 |
| nathany | sweet, delicious, life brining coffee | 12:05 |
| nathany | er, bringing | 12:05 |
| nathany | ugh | 12:05 |
| bovinity | briny coffee would be neither sweet or delicious | 12:05 |
| nathany | arr | 12:06 |
| bovinity | it would eb full of rum, though | 12:06 |
| nathany | seen on my facebook "wall": | 12:06 |
| nathany | "hung over and its only friday ??!!! ......gurl....." | 12:06 |
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| bovinity | ajbrooks: do these second page items you sent me replace the entirety of the cclearn projects items? | 12:21 |
| ajbrooks | yep | 12:22 |
| bovinity | icons and all? | 12:22 |
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| ajbrooks | bovinity: yep, the search icon should apply to the tech, the people to the social -- do you know of a good icon to represent the legal paragraph? | 12:26 |
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| bovinity | already have the scales of justice icon | 12:26 |
| ajbrooks | ok sweet | 12:27 |
| ajbrooks | that works | 12:27 |
| bovinity | ajbrooks: can you edit down legal and technical? tech is way long | 12:29 |
| rejon | http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/wiki_universal_edit_button.php what | 12:34 |
| paulproteus | rejon, Ya (-: | 12:36 |
| bovinity | you guys need a "danger will robinson!" sample for those sms messages | 12:36 |
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| nkinkade | I'll have it play a small Buffett clip instead. | 12:37 |
| bovinity | "danger danger, high voltage!" etc | 12:38 |
| paulproteus | http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Danger-High-Voltage-lyrics-Electric-Six/0B03F56B4024D0C448256D5E00076617 | 12:41 |
| bovinity | ;) | 12:41 |
| paulproteus | $ youtube-mplayer -vo null http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQQeg3jYgOA | 12:42 |
| paulproteus | Next up, "Improper Dancing". | 12:46 |
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| nathany | currybot: 1 | 12:47 |
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| bovinity | aww | 12:47 |
| *** currybot has joined #cc | 12:47 | |
| nathany | currybot: 1 | 12:47 |
| currybot | currybot: 1 | 12:47 |
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| paulproteus | nathany, How familiar are you with YUI? | 12:48 |
| nathany | somewhat | 12:48 |
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| nathany | currybot: 1 | 12:48 |
| currybot | ('DAL LOUKI \r\n\t(Chickpea lentil cooked with white squash)\r\n\tThis entr\xe9e is prepared from garlic, ginger, red onions, tomatoes, and 5C, \r\n\tGaram masala that is cardamom, cloves, cumin seed, coriander, Cinnamon.', '$5.00') | 12:48 |
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| bovinity | ! | 12:48 |
| paulproteus | !! | 12:48 |
| hdworak | !!! | 12:48 |
| rejon | !!!!! | 12:48 |
| rejon | currybot 2 | 12:48 |
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| rejon | currybot: 2 | 12:48 |
| nathany | uh, yeah, it left | 12:48 |
| paulproteus | We should give the currybot its own IP address. | 12:49 |
| rejon | oh yah ;) | 12:49 |
| bovinity | lunch.creativecommons.org | 12:49 |
| rejon | i'm getting weird output on currybot...not sure if you guys see the hidden chars (\r\n\t) | 12:51 |
| bovinity | yes, it's not finished jon | 12:51 |
| rejon | damn | 12:52 |
| paulproteus | techblog it | 12:52 |
| rejon | you guys have attitude | 12:52 |
| nathany | sounds like a challenge to m e | 12:52 |
| nathany | me | 12:52 |
| rejon | to techblog it or have more attitude than nathany? | 12:53 |
| nathany | the latter :) | 12:53 |
| rejon | i decline the attitude offer | 12:53 |
| paulproteus | from nathany import attitude | 12:53 |
| rejon | export you mean | 12:53 |
| paulproteus | del nathany.attitude | 12:54 |
| paulproteus | # muahaha, it's mine now | 12:54 |
| nathany | lol | 12:54 |
| paulproteus | If you guys aren't careful, I'm going to give the office IPv6. | 12:54 |
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| bovinity | class bitchslap(nathany.attitude): | 12:54 |
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| paulproteus | pass # fully implemented by superclass | 12:55 |
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| nathany | thank you, thank you | 12:55 |
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| nathany | currybot: 1 | 12:59 |
| currybot | DAL LOUKI | 12:59 |
| currybot | $5.00 | 12:59 |
| currybot | (Chickpea lentil cooked with white squash) | 12:59 |
| currybot | $5.00 | 12:59 |
| currybot | This entrée is prepared from garlic, ginger, red onions, tomatoes, and 5C, | 12:59 |
| currybot | $5.00 | 12:59 |
| currybot | Garam masala that is cardamom, cloves, cumin seed, coriander, Cinnamon. | 12:59 |
| currybot | $5.00 | 12:59 |
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| bovinity | 5C? | 12:59 |
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| nathany | currybot: 1 | 13:00 |
| currybot | DAL LOUKI | 13:00 |
| currybot | (Chickpea lentil cooked with white squash) | 13:00 |
| currybot | This entrée is prepared from garlic, ginger, red onions, tomatoes, and 5C, | 13:00 |
| currybot | Garam masala that is cardamom, cloves, cumin seed, coriander, Cinnamon. | 13:00 |
| currybot | $5.00 | 13:00 |
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| ftobia | currybot: 2 | 13:00 |
| currybot | SUBZ-E-SOA | 13:00 |
| currybot | (Fresh Vegetables cooked in onions, ginger, garlic, tomato and dill hurb | 13:00 |
| currybot | curry) | 13:00 |
| currybot | Unlike South Indian cooks the Northern counterparts like to use the whole | 13:00 |
| currybot | spices to prepare and flavor the base for the vegetables. This classic | 13:00 |
| currybot | Himachal dish is prepared with the fresh vegetables like cauliflower, | 13:00 |
| currybot | potatoes, bell peppers, mushrooms and blue lake beans with big julienne of | 13:00 |
| currybot | red onions, garlic and vine ripened tomatoes and then added fresh hurb. | 13:00 |
| currybot | $5.00 | 13:00 |
| ajbrooks | do you guys have to manually update the currybot or is that data being pulled in somewhere? | 13:00 |
| bovinity | magic | 13:00 |
| rejon | that is awesome...suspenseful even! | 13:00 |
| nathany | lol | 13:01 |
| ajbrooks | internet magic | 13:01 |
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| rejon | scraped I believe | 13:01 |
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| paulproteus | Yay UTF-8! | 13:01 |
| rejon | currybot: order 1-2 combo | 13:01 |
| paulproteus | rejon, fire the photon torpedos | 13:02 |
| ajbrooks | I want to see the cchelpbot and the currybot fight each other | 13:02 |
| paulproteus | currybot, fire the photon torpedos | 13:02 |
| rejon | currybot: deliver 250 clara #15 12:30 PM | 13:02 |
| bovinity | cchelpbot is dead to me now. if it can't order lunch, what good is it. | 13:02 |
| cchelpbot | bovinity: Error: "is" is not a valid command. | 13:02 |
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| rejon | ok...getting ahead of myself | 13:02 |
| nathany | currybot:2 | 13:02 |
| currybot | SUBZ-E-SOA (Fresh Vegetables cooked in onions, ginger, garlic, tomato and dill hurb curry) Unlike South Indian cooks the Northern counterparts like to use the whole spices to prepare and flavor the base for the vegetables. This classic Himachal dish is prepared with the fresh vegetables like cauliflower, potatoes, bell peppers, mushrooms and blue lake beans with big julienne of red onions, garlic and vine ripened tomatoes and then | 13:02 |
| currybot | $5.00 | 13:02 |
| paulproteus | Wewt. | 13:03 |
| nathany | currybot: help | 13:03 |
| currybot | No help here; guess you're SOL. | 13:03 |
| paulproteus | ?google "unlike SOUTH INDIAN cooks" | 13:03 |
| jibot | Search for "unlike SOUTH INDIAN cooks": 0.107 seconds. Showing first 1 of 1 sites | 13:03 |
| jibot | Mehfil Indian Dine In Lunch Menu - http://mehfilindian.com/LunchMenuDineIn.htm | 13:03 |
| bovinity | woah | 13:03 |
| rejon | whoa | 13:03 |
| paulproteus | Man, I ran out of space on the OpenWRT. | 13:05 |
| paulproteus | And I thought 1.2M was enough for anybody. | 13:06 |
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| nkinkad1 | paulproteus: I even had to uninstall some things on the office route the other day. | 13:09 |
| paulproteus | nkinkad1, I just uninstalled nano. | 13:10 |
| nkinkad1 | Thanks. | 13:10 |
| paulproteus | lol! | 13:10 |
| nkinkad1 | :-) | 13:10 |
| paulproteus | Still not enough space, anyway. | 13:10 |
| nkinkad1 | What are you trying to install? | 13:10 |
| paulproteus | ipkg install kmod-ipv6 | 13:11 |
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| paulproteus | nkinkad1, Do you know where the NAT scripts/config is on this thing? | 13:15 |
| nkinkad1 | I think pretty much everything can be found in /etc/config/ | 13:16 |
| nkinkad1 | Is it not in there somewhere? | 13:16 |
| paulproteus | I don't see it. | 13:17 |
| paulproteus | But maybe it's implicit rather than explicit. | 13:17 |
| nkinkad1 | paulproteus: /etc/init.d/firewall | 13:19 |
| paulproteus | I guess that's what "forward" does. Okay. | 13:19 |
| nkinkad1 | I thought there was a special NAT table? | 13:20 |
| nathany | nkinkad1: any objections to me running an IRC bot from one of the servers? | 13:20 |
| paulproteus | IRC++ | 13:20 |
| nkinkad1 | There a section in that file ### MASQ | 13:21 |
| nathany | (in particular, http://code.creativecommons.org/viewgit?p=currybot.git;a=summary) | 13:21 |
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| paulproteus | nathany, You're twisted. | 13:22 |
| nathany | thank you | 13:22 |
| ajbrooks | paulproteus: how long does it take events to show up on the map? | 13:23 |
| paulproteus | ajbrooks, They never show up currently. | 13:23 |
| paulproteus | It should be refreshed every hour. | 13:23 |
| paulproteus | But there's a confusing mismatch between SMW and the CSV exporter nathany wrote that I tried to debug yesterday but just emailed the SMW list about instead. | 13:24 |
| paulproteus | I'm hoping they'll answer yesterday or today; if not, I'll do something by Monday. | 13:24 |
| ajbrooks | ok cool - thanks | 13:24 |
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| jibot | jgay is http://www.gnu.org/people/speakers.html#Gay | 13:25 |
| ajbrooks | has the teamspace smw been upgraded or changed at all recently? my presentation fact boxes aren't showing up anymore | 13:27 |
| ajbrooks | http://teamspace.creativecommons.org/OER_NOW | 13:27 |
| nkinkad1 | ajbrooks: Yes, it was lately upgraded from 1.1.1 to 1.1.2. | 13:29 |
| nkinkad1 | But I doubt that has anything to do with your issue. It was just a security update. | 13:29 |
| ajbrooks | hmm.. I'm not sure what happened, I haven't changed anything to the presentation form or template that would explain it | 13:30 |
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| jgay | ajbrooks: I'm using SMW a lot these days -- it's great | 13:34 |
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| jibot | davidstrauss is "P" and not "P" | 13:34 |
| jgay | davidstrauss: you should be P and NP :-) | 13:35 |
| paulproteus | nkinkade, nathany, Don't look now, but your wireless network interfaces have fully-fledged IPv6 address. | 13:36 |
| paulproteus | Everyone else too. | 13:37 |
| paulproteus | ping6 www.kame.net | 13:37 |
| ajbrooks | jgay: smw = rad | 13:37 |
| ftobia | 2002:456d:ab0b:cc:212:f0ff:feef:7570 | 13:38 |
| jgay | ajbrooks: yeah, especially when combined with semantic forms :-) | 13:38 |
| jgay | I'm helping to create this site http://216.93.249.195/wiki/index.php/Main_Page -- people submit and edit educational resources with the same form. I'ts pretty awesome. | 13:39 |
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| ajbrooks | how'd that wikijam go, btw? | 13:41 |
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| jgay | ajbrooks: it went well. We had about a dozen people turn up and move over hundreds of books to the new site | 13:48 |
| jgay | we are getting close to relaunch -- as soon as we have reviews added to the books we'll be good to go (and some general rewrite of front page text, etc) | 13:49 |
| paulproteus | jgay, Wow, totally awesome. | 13:49 |
| paulproteus | nkinkade, If you have a sec, try: ping6 ipv6.google.com | 13:49 |
| nkinkade | nkinkade@npk:~$ ping6 ipv6.google.com | 13:50 |
| nkinkade | PING ipv6.google.com(2001:4860:0:2001::68) 56 data bytes | 13:50 |
| nkinkade | 64 bytes from 2001:4860:0:2001::68: icmp_seq=1 ttl=59 time=445 ms | 13:50 |
| paulproteus | Welcome to the network of networks. | 13:51 |
| jgay | ajbrooks: paulproteus one important thing I'm working from for books and using semantic mediawiki, is to figure out a good subset of ERIC for online educational resources | 13:51 |
| jgay | that way we can all share, essentially, the same tag clouds | 13:51 |
| jgay | and all be pulling form ERIC | 13:51 |
| jgay | www.eric.ed.gov/ | 13:51 |
| paulproteus | jgay, Interesting, /me loads | 13:51 |
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| nathany | hello, currybot | 13:56 |
| nathany | currybot: hello! | 13:57 |
| nathany | currybot: fail | 13:57 |
| nathany | currybot: 3 | 13:57 |
| currybot | MURGA DAHIWALA (Boneless chicken cubes cooked red onions, tomatoes, and yogurt) This dish comes from Northern Part of India. The boneless chicken pieces are marinated overnight in plain yogurt with a little rock salt. The base is prepared in red onions, tomatoes, ginger, garlic, cumin, and cardamom turmeric. The marinated chicken is added to it along with the marinade and cooked. | 13:57 |
| currybot | $ 5.00 | 13:57 |
| bovinity | currybot: i can haz curry plz | 13:57 |
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| nathany | currybot: hello! | 13:58 |
| currybot | nathany: mmm... curry... | 13:58 |
| ftobia | currybot: 1 | 14:00 |
| currybot | DAL LOUKI (Chickpea lentil cooked with white squash) This entrée is prepared from garlic, ginger, red onions, tomatoes, and 5C, Garam masala that is cardamom, cloves, cumin seed, coriander, Cinnamon. | 14:00 |
| currybot | $5.00 | 14:00 |
| paulproteus | currybot, price of sandwiches in fridge | 14:00 |
| bovinity | currybot: 4 | 14:00 |
| currybot | TOMATO CINNAMON MEATBALL MASALA (CHEF’S SPECIAL) Home made Beef meatballs Braised in Fresh garlic, ginger, onions, and Roma Tomatoes Finished in a Masala of roasted Cinnamon Bark. An Excellent infusion With an Indian Flavor. This dish was specially created for the all season. | 14:00 |
| currybot | $6.00 | 14:00 |
| bovinity | currybot: 5 | 14:01 |
| currybot | bovinity: mmm... curry... | 14:01 |
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| paulproteus | It really is the Summer of Curry Code. | 14:02 |
| paulproteus | currybot, Are you written in ML? | 14:02 |
| nathany | paulproteus: currybot is in git :) | 14:03 |
| paulproteus | I saw, I jest. (-: | 14:04 |
| paulproteus | nathany, What's the v6 address of your laptop? I want to SSH in from Japan. (-: | 14:04 |
| paulproteus | (Or do I have an account? I forget.) | 14:04 |
| nathany | no account, no idea what the address is | 14:04 |
| nathany | 2002:456d:ab0b:cc:21b:77ff:fe37:8bf1/64 | 14:04 |
| nathany | paulproteus: bovinity: ftobia: etc -- curry? | 14:05 |
| paulproteus | nathany, Aww re: no account | 14:05 |
| paulproteus | nathany, I'm thinking more leftovers. | 14:06 |
| ftobia | nathany: yeah the curry sounds good but the fridge is packed with food i don't have to pay for. | 14:06 |
| CharelB | re[back] | 14:15 |
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| jibot | greg-g is "developing" the "community" for "creative commons" | 14:23 |
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| paulproteus | nathany, wow, I'm missing out on something over there | 15:07 |
| nathany | so are we, apparently | 15:07 |
| nathany | i just heard jenn's laughter | 15:07 |
| rejon | paulproteus: are the bikes at the office still? curious... | 15:20 |
| paulproteus | rejon, Mine is, and one other is. | 15:21 |
| paulproteus | Looks like a fixie - whose is that one? | 15:21 |
| bovinity | mine would be in the office, if i thought it would fit into the elevator | 15:21 |
| rejon | paulproteus: joi's | 15:22 |
| paulproteus | Huh, okay. | 15:23 |
| rejon | yah, he let me borrow it, but I figure good to just leave at cc office for anytime ppl. need to go to meetings, etc | 15:23 |
| paulproteus | Man, it's probably in amazing shape. | 15:24 |
| paulproteus | I need to take "mine" to get tuned up so the chain stops slipping. | 15:24 |
| paulproteus | It's funny how neither of those bikes belongs to either of us. | 15:24 |
| bovinity | need to adjust my chain this weekend.. | 15:24 |
| hdworak | nathany: was link type Copyright (which exists in HTML 4.01) ever used in context of licences? if no, why? if yes, was it related to cc? | 15:26 |
| hdworak | link = the link | 15:26 |
| nathany | hdworak: i don't believe it was ever used for CC licenses because it suffered the same problem as dc:rights -- lack of clear expectation re: contents | 15:27 |
| paulproteus | Sounds like something my mom would say. | 15:28 |
| hdworak | nathany: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/CR-rdfa-syntax-20080612/#rdfa-attributes vs. http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-rdfa-primer/#publishing-an-event | 15:28 |
| hdworak | nathany: both of the above documents are at most 3 months old; one mentions instanceof but doesn't mention typeof; the other does reversal | 15:28 |
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| hdworak | nathany: so what's the deal with typeof and instanceof? | 15:29 |
| nathany | i believe instanceof was replaced by typeof | 15:29 |
| nathany | just read the CR document | 15:29 |
| nathany | since the other is a draft | 15:29 |
| nathany | hdworak: ^^ | 15:30 |
| hdworak | yes, thank you | 15:30 |
| nathany | np :) | 15:31 |
| hdworak | nathany: does DC.rights in a link type have any meaning whatsoever if no profile URI for the "head" element has been specified? (yes, I've read the HTML spec that says authors SHOULD use profile for link types that are not defined in HTML) | 15:31 |
| nathany | i'm not really sure | 15:32 |
| nathany | I mean, presumably it has *some* meaning, but you can't say very well what it is | 15:32 |
| hdworak | basically, my question is: if I see no profile="" in the "head" element can I treat rel="DC.rights" as rel="foobar" ? | 15:32 |
| nathany | well are you asking specifically about dc:rights, or about rel="..." (RDFa) in general? | 15:32 |
| hdworak | about link types in general | 15:33 |
| nathany | yes, you "should" use a profile for HTML, but in reality it's not uncommon to find annotated documents w/o the profile | 15:33 |
| hdworak | is it semantically valid to interpret this as the real DC.rights if no profile has been specified? | 15:33 |
| nathany | sorry if i missed something -- are you referring to <head> links or to RDFa? | 15:34 |
| hdworak | I'm referring to <head profile="" and its relation to not-contained-in-HTML-specs link types | 15:35 |
| hdworak | that are used in rel="" in a and link | 15:35 |
| hdworak | this issue is not bound to RDFa as I see it | 15:35 |
| nathany | well I was asking because RDFa has a profile="" you can use, but we shouldn't depend on that turn on/off rdfa processing | 15:36 |
| nathany | (that was why i asked) | 15:36 |
| nathany | wrt dc.rights, i don't know | 15:36 |
| hdworak | ok, I'm not that into RDFa yet, I've just read some primers | 15:37 |
| nathany | my instinct is to say that it doesn't matter since we don't use or care about dc:rights | 15:37 |
| nathany | you could probably take a middle position by displaying the information (when no profile exists) and warning users | 15:37 |
| nathany | but that seems like a real edge case | 15:37 |
| hdworak | well, as far as I understand things the validator was supposed to dump all the data it could (not related to the license) based on the RDF in a table? | 15:38 |
| hdworak | but it's true that it's of second importance from the validator pov | 15:38 |
| nathany | well we always showed additional information (like title, etc), but I don't think we want to build a general purpose RDFa/metadata-in-pages validator | 15:38 |
| nathany | paulproteus, feel free to jump in if you think i'm mis-characterizing things | 15:39 |
| * paulproteus is listening and feels okay so far | 15:39 | |
| hdworak | ok, cool, I'm just trying to understand things I'm dealing with :) | 15:39 |
| paulproteus | nathany, re: dc.rights: | 15:39 |
| hdworak | I'm writing tests atm | 15:39 |
| paulproteus | It would be nice to pick up on that metadata and say, "Hey, use RDFa". | 15:39 |
| hdworak | decided to make a Python script for that | 15:39 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: yes, but just detecting stuff and saying "you're using deprecated methods" is one thing | 15:40 |
| hdworak | the other being proposing what equivalent RDFa should look like | 15:40 |
| paulproteus | "Best effort" is fine. | 15:41 |
| hdworak | and the third being pointing out errors in deprecated methods (now I do NOT mean stating that they are deprecated) - like if someone declared by-nc-nd and then messed the permits stuff in RDF | 15:41 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, Right, sure | 15:41 |
| paulproteus | re: second: I mean, if you detect a CC license URL in dc.rights, say, "I *think* this is what you mean..." | 15:41 |
| hdworak | have you seen that rafb.net/paste plain text I've linked before? | 15:42 |
| hdworak | that's pretty much a roadmap for test cases | 15:42 |
| * hdworak welcomes suggestions wrt | 15:43 | |
| * paulproteus reads it now | 15:43 | |
| hdworak | http://rafb.net/p/CBRXDZ64.txt | 15:43 |
| paulproteus | Looks okay to me. | 15:44 |
| hdworak | <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/2.0/" xmlns:cc="http://cc.org/ns#" rel="cc:license">...</a> | 15:44 |
| hdworak | is this something akward or I've missed something? | 15:44 |
| hdworak | aside of cc.org instead of creativecommons.org of course | 15:45 |
| paulproteus | That's fine, but you don't need the xmlns since license is an XHTML reserved word (as I understand things). | 15:45 |
| hdworak | yes, exactly | 15:45 |
| hdworak | that's why it felt strange | 15:45 |
| hdworak | and cc:license actually defines the license | 15:46 |
| hdworak | not work | 15:46 |
| hdworak | hm... | 15:46 |
| * hdworak is a bit confused | 15:46 | |
| paulproteus | I don't understand your confusion. | 15:46 |
| hdworak | when would we have rel="cc:Work"? | 15:47 |
| paulproteus | I dunno, that's weird. | 15:48 |
| hdworak | maybe if I would like to describe http://example.org/gnomophone.mp3 using RDFa? | 15:48 |
| nathany | hdworak: cc:Work is a "type" | 15:48 |
| hdworak | or should I use about=""? | 15:49 |
| nathany | so you might do something like | 15:49 |
| nathany | typeof="cc:Work" | 15:49 |
| nathany | (i'm actually not sure what context i'd write that in... but you wouldn't do rel="cc:Work", just like you wouldn't do rel="cc:License" | 15:49 |
| hdworak | ok, so typeof="cc:Work" but rel="cc:license" ? | 15:49 |
| hdworak | ok, so that was my question | 15:50 |
| hdworak | <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/2.0/" xmlns:cc="http://cc.org/ns#" rel="cc:license">...</a> | 15:50 |
| nathany | yes, but the important thing is, it doesn't matter :) | 15:50 |
| hdworak | if the above is ok? | 15:50 |
| nathany | that's fine | 15:50 |
| nathany | you don't even need cc:license, though; license is fine | 15:50 |
| nathany | (the cc schema states that cc:license == dc:license == xhtml:license) | 15:50 |
| hdworak | rdf:sameAs ? | 15:50 |
| nathany | yes, and owl: (er, i forget -- same thing, though, declaring equivalence) | 15:51 |
| hdworak | no, wait | 15:52 |
| hdworak | I've spotted it now | 15:52 |
| hdworak | owl:sameAs, right | 15:52 |
| hdworak | :( | 15:53 |
| hdworak | <a href="http://example.org/work.zip" rel="cc:Work">my work</a> | 15:54 |
| hdworak | why is this erroneous? | 15:54 |
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| nathany | it's not wrong, hdworak, it just doesn't make much sense | 15:59 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, Work is a class. | 15:59 |
| Steren | nathany: I'm currently working on bringing the task/project tracking system to the world. I try to export the structure. | 16:00 |
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| hdworak | ok, so it is in no relation to the document? | 16:00 |
| nathany | nice | 16:00 |
| paulproteus | Steren, FWIW, Students for Free Culture would be happy to have it also... | 16:00 |
| hdworak | would that mean: work.zip has the following relation to the document you are just reading - it is a work | 16:02 |
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| paulproteus | hdworak, Your last statement made me laugh! | 16:35 |
| paulproteus | It's hilarious. Also, I think it means, "$DOCUMENT_YOU_ARE_READING has cc:Work of $HREF_OF_THE_ANCHOR_TAG." | 16:35 |
| paulproteus | Which makes no sense. | 16:35 |
| paulproteus | It's even less sensible than what you said! | 16:36 |
| hdworak | yes, like using work as the predicate | 16:36 |
| paulproteus | Yes, run screaming from that; it makes no sense at all! | 16:36 |
| hdworak | I'm not saying it makes sense, I just want to understand things :) | 16:36 |
| * hdworak runs screaming | 16:36 | |
| hdworak | actually, I need to keep my voice down, 'cause it's almost midnight here | 16:37 |
| hdworak | http://www.imagesduo.com/uploads/615292PliPNME2Ca6iiyQ7Hbja027JIrGirg1.png | 16:37 |
| paulproteus | (-: | 16:38 |
| hdworak | ok, there's a bug in that plain text file of mine | 16:42 |
| hdworak | meta elements should have content="" not href="" naturally | 16:42 |
| Steren | nkinkade and nathany : can you tell me if you've receive any notification email | 16:48 |
| mecredis | rejon: there? | 16:48 |
| nkinkade | Steren: I haven't yet, but Google Apps is a bit slow. | 16:48 |
| rejon | mecredis: what up | 16:49 |
| mecredis | did Chris D from Google give you a AC/DC Lenovo thing? | 16:49 |
| rejon | yes! | 16:49 |
| mecredis | nuce | 16:49 |
| rejon | is that yours? | 16:49 |
| mecredis | its mine | 16:49 |
| mecredis | yes | 16:49 |
| rejon | cool | 16:49 |
| mecredis | poor little guy is so dead | 16:49 |
| paulproteus | Hah. | 16:49 |
| rejon | damn | 16:49 |
| rejon | thought i had a new one | 16:49 |
| mecredis | hah | 16:49 |
| mecredis | yeah, its ridiculous | 16:49 |
| mecredis | you can't actually buy that unit | 16:50 |
| mecredis | the one they send you from the site is 3 prong w/ ground | 16:50 |
| mecredis | its totally insane | 16:50 |
| mecredis | I mean you can just use your own cable for it | 16:50 |
| rejon | yah, do you want me to mail it to you? | 16:50 |
| mecredis | yeah, that'd be great | 16:50 |
| nkinkade | Steren: I just received the email. | 16:51 |
| Steren | nkinkade: an New task or a Updated task ? | 16:52 |
| nkinkade | As an update, I think. | 16:52 |
| nkinkade | "[Teamspace] Task updated: Install Semantic Tasks" | 16:52 |
| rejon | mecredis: send me your addy in email :) | 16:55 |
| Steren | nkinkade: nathany : | 16:56 |
| Steren | ok, so I just found a bug. I think it doesn't parse the new page, but the one before the edit. | 16:56 |
| Steren | That explains why : When creating a new page, no mail are sent. When adding someone to the project, he doesn't receive any mail | 16:56 |
| nkinkade | Steren: Can you do the email sending stuff at some hook that gets called later in the process? | 16:57 |
| Steren | I'm looking at it | 16:59 |
| mecredis | rejon: sure | 17:02 |
| Steren | nkinkade: to test the reminders, can you run "extensions/SemanticTasks/ST_CheckForReminders.php" | 17:03 |
| paulproteus | (can't we just give poor Steren a shell?) | 17:04 |
| nkinkade | That would be the best thing. | 17:05 |
| Steren | great it works | 17:05 |
| nkinkade | But it emitted an error: | 17:05 |
| nkinkade | php ./ST_CheckForReminders.php | 17:05 |
| nkinkade | sendmail: fatal: No recipient addresses found in message header | 17:05 |
| nkinkade | ST check for reminders | 17:05 |
| Steren | yes, the subject is strange | 17:05 |
| Steren | I made a mistake with the subject | 17:06 |
| rejon | bovinity: did you ever get a chance to think/create icon for case studies project? | 17:06 |
| rejon | the launch is now upon us next week | 17:06 |
| Steren | thanks, Ill correct all these | 17:06 |
| paulproteus | nathany, Wow, we look great in http://www.flickr.com/photos/joi/2589954195/ | 17:07 |
| paulproteus | Even Herbert looks nice and bright! | 17:07 |
| nkinkade | Steren: You've now got an account a6 ... you should be able to login with the same private key you use for svn and git. | 17:10 |
| paulproteus | Should/can we give him sudo so he can toy with the teamspace conf? (I vote yes.) | 17:10 |
| nathany | paulproteus: i know, definitely captures something about our interactions | 17:15 |
| *** nathany has quit IRC | 17:15 | |
| paulproteus | So does you leaving after saying that. | 17:15 |
| nkinkade | Steren: The RSA fingerprint for a6's is: 4d:29:e1:48:7f:84:c4:53:d4:73:26:89:87:56:2c:4d | 17:15 |
| nkinkade | Just so you don't fall into some evil trap that paulproteus may have set while he was gunking around in the router earlier. | 17:16 |
| paulproteus | Don't worry, I also capture the IRC traffic. | 17:16 |
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| nkinkade | I figured as much. ;-) | 17:16 |
| Steren | ok | 17:17 |
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| nkinkade | Steren: I'm getting some emails with crazy subjects. For example: | 17:17 |
| nkinkade | [Teamspace] Reminder: Blog/CopyLeft Electronic MusicBlog/FonstructBlog/Insecurity MovieBlog/WordleCall/email Hal PlotkinContact Blake Whitman/VimeoFeatured Commoners/DeviantArtFinish data-entry from eventFinish writing financial protocolInstall Semantic Tasks | 17:17 |
| Steren | yes | 17:17 |
| Steren | I know | 17:17 |
| nkinkade | Okay, just making sure. | 17:17 |
| paulproteus | nkinkade, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ettercap_(computing) is a good time I hear. | 17:17 |
| Steren | and the days are not correct | 17:17 |
| paulproteus | I haven't actually used it, but this is the thing that my friend showed his high school IT folks to make sure they realized sniffing on the network was not a "theoretical" attack. | 17:18 |
| paulproteus | "Ettercap also has the ability to actively or passively find other poisoners on the LAN." | 17:18 |
| nkinkade | I've been wanting to play around with it ever since that conversation we had. | 17:18 |
| paulproteus | That's interesting. | 17:18 |
| paulproteus | Yes, and I wanted to remind you to do so! (-: | 17:19 |
| paulproteus | Invite me when you do (-: | 17:19 |
| nkinkade | But first I want to play around with aircrack_ng to see how fast I can break into the wlan here. | 17:19 |
| nkinkade | You said 20 minutes for you? | 17:19 |
| paulproteus | I *think* so. | 17:19 |
| nkinkade | What tool were you using? | 17:19 |
| paulproteus | I think aircrack_ng. | 17:19 |
| paulproteus | Yes, aircrack_ng. | 17:20 |
| paulproteus | And packetforge-ng to create an ARP packet to exploit the known-plaintext attack strategy. | 17:20 |
| nkinkade | That's all just a matter of waiting for a while, but Ettercap might prove more fun. | 17:21 |
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| nkinkade | But I'd still like to know how to use aircrack_ng, just to have an idea what it really requires for someone to break into a WEP wlan. | 17:22 |
| * paulproteus nods | 17:22 | |
| paulproteus | I followed a modified version of http://www.aircrack-ng.org/doku.php?id=ipw2200 or something. | 17:22 |
| nkinkade | Is that modified module really necessary? | 17:24 |
| nkinkade | Or was that something else altogether? | 17:24 |
| paulproteus | The modified module is necessary, yes. | 17:25 |
| rejon1 | greg-g: http://www.yelp.com/biz/don-rafas-cyclery-san-francisco | 17:25 |
| paulproteus | For some reason I don't understand, these patches for injection rarely hit the kernel mainline. | 17:25 |
| paulproteus | Honestly, I don't know why. | 17:25 |
| paulproteus | Maybe everyone's too afraid to submit them? | 17:25 |
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| paulproteus | I think orinoco_cs can maybe do injection with the mainline driver. | 17:26 |
| nkinkade | The aircrack_ng man pages didn't mention anything about needing a modified wireless driver. | 17:27 |
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| rejon1 | greg-g and tim_hwang: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naut_Humon | 17:33 |
| nkinkade | Steren: Melissa just told me that she just got about 7 or 8 emails for tasks that aren't even related to her. | 17:33 |
| nkinkade | Should I disable the extension until we can work out a few of the bugs. The emails are harmless, but if she got 7 or 8 then I'm assuming that lots of other people are getting emails accidentally. | 17:33 |
| Steren | I was thinking about this | 17:33 |
| Steren | in fact it's only the reminders that sent those mails | 17:33 |
| *** rejon1 is now known as rejon | 17:33 | |
| Steren | but yes, disable the extension for the moment | 17:34 |
| nkinkade | Steren: Now that you've got a login, you could disable it. ;-) | 17:34 |
| Steren | yes | 17:34 |
| nkinkade | /var/www/teamspace.creativecommons.org/www/LocalSettings.php | 17:34 |
| nkinkade | But I'll be happy to do it as well. Just let me know if you'd prefer me to do it for now. | 17:35 |
| paulproteus | http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000I1X6PM/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top | 17:35 |
| paulproteus | Check out the tags. | 17:35 |
| paulproteus | Wow, these reviews are amazing. | 17:35 |
| nkinkade | bovinity: Do you know anything about the "oldskins" directory in the CC wiki? Do you know if it's safe to blast it to smithereens. | 17:39 |
| parkerhiggins | paulproteus: this is great. the discussions of it are also really funny | 17:39 |
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| nkinkade | paulproteus: You sure do end up in some of the craziest, mouldy recesses of the Internet. What possessed you to visit that page? | 17:41 |
| nkinkade | Do you own a Denon receiver even? | 17:41 |
| paulproteus | Naturally, friends at acm.jhu.edu. | 17:41 |
| nkinkade | Or chatter on one of the dozens of IRC channels, or hundreds of email lists you are probably on. | 17:42 |
| nkinkade | :) | 17:42 |
| paulproteus | nkinkade, Luckily I just emailed cc-staff-sf a link. | 17:42 |
| paulproteus | "After the Denon helicopter and armed delivery guards left"... | 17:42 |
| paulproteus | If time travel is your thing, there is just no way to get the flux | 17:44 |
| paulproteus | capacitor to fire correctly without this cable. Well worth the | 17:44 |
| paulproteus | money. | 17:44 |
| parkerhiggins | my favorite is the first line of the first one: | 17:44 |
| parkerhiggins | "A caution to people buying these: if you do not follow the "directional markings" on the cables, your music will play backwards. Please check that before mentioning it in your reviews. " | 17:44 |
| paulproteus | The "Discussion" (incl. anti-aging) is good also. | 17:45 |
| paulproteus | ?google "In appreciation we named our first nine children 'Denon'" | 17:46 |
| jibot | Google does not know anything about "In appreciation we named our first nine children 'Denon'". I'm sorry Dave, I don't have enough information. | 17:46 |
| Steren | nkinkade: I can't go through ssh on a6. My password is the same than for git repository ? | 17:47 |
| paulproteus | (a) check username, (b) not password but SSH key | 17:47 |
| nkinkade | Steren: Sorry. I forgot to tell you your username. It's just simply: steren | 17:48 |
| nkinkade | But as paulproteseesh mentioned, the ssh key you are using for git and subversion should get you in. | 17:49 |
| nkinkade | It's possible you could have to specify which key to use with -i | 17:50 |
| paulproteus | paulproteasheesh | 17:50 |
| paulproteus | FWIW by default ssh tries all the keys it knows | 17:50 |
| paulproteus | nkinkade, You missed the leading "ssh-rsa " characters in his key. | 17:52 |
| paulproteus | (I fixed it) | 17:53 |
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| nkinkade | Oops. | 17:54 |
| paulproteus | <MiaoMing> "Although the anti-aging claims are true, I am somewhat disappointed that my skin is now almost identical to one of my wife's handbags." | 17:54 |
| nkinkade | paulproteus: I didn't know that SSH would try every key it knew about. | 17:54 |
| paulproteus | ssh -vvv shows it doing that | 17:54 |
| paulproteus | (Maybe fewer -v also) | 17:54 |
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| paulproteus | iirc you can go through a lot of keys in one SSH connection attempt, making brute-forcing using the weak Debian keys easier. | 17:55 |
| nkinkade | I've watched it go through available auth mechanisms, but I didn't know it was start trying every private you've got in .ssh | 17:57 |
| nkinkade | s/was/would/ | 17:57 |
| nkinkade | I though it would try id_dsa and/or is_rsa and then that was it. | 17:57 |
| paulproteus | Oh, good point. | 17:58 |
| paulproteus | (a) the conf can probably make it try more, but | 17:58 |
| nkinkade | But you are saying that if I had a key in there named .ssh/my_crazy_private_key_name that it woudl try it automatically | 17:58 |
| hdworak | http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Extend_Metadata#In_META here <meta is used for a link | 17:58 |
| paulproteus | (b) What I really meant was, "If you can get in somewhere without ssh -i, you won't need it for the same key anywhere else." | 17:58 |
| nkinkade | The man page simply says "The default is ~/.ssh/identity for protocol version 1, and ~/.ssh/id_rsa and ~/.ssh/id_dsa for protocol version 2." | 17:58 |
| paulproteus | nkinkade, Yeah, sorry, I mis-spoke when I was thinking of my statement (b). | 17:58 |
| hdworak | whereas http://dublincore.org/documents/dcq-html/ "2.4 Linking to other resources" reads "Where the value of a property is the URI of another resource (as is typically the case with the DC.relation element for example) an alternative form of encoding using the XHTML <link> element is preferred." | 17:59 |
| greg-g | rejon: downloaded an album from overlap.org, extracted the .zip, and its a mess. see: http://rafb.net/p/5t0Y9v54.html | 17:59 |
| rejon | yah, greg-g: those macosx extra bits | 18:00 |
| Steren | nkinkade: I have sudo rights, but I don't know what my password is. | 18:00 |
| paulproteus | Steren, Feel free to go bug him in person (-: | 18:01 |
| greg-g | rejon: shall I email Kenric? | 18:01 |
| rejon | yah, good to do: info@overlap.org | 18:02 |
| rejon | also, in #fabricatorz | 18:03 |
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| nkinkade | paulproteus: Do you know much about "non-fast forward" updates with git? | 18:43 |
| paulproteus | nkinkade, Sure, need a hand with them? | 18:43 |
| paulproteus | They're called "merges" and if they happen automatically you should be okay. | 18:43 |
| paulproteus | Look at gitk for more info, as always. | 18:43 |
| paulproteus | But feel free to just tell me to come there. | 18:43 |
| nkinkade | I got an error when pushing a bunch of commits. | 18:44 |
| nkinkade | The error was related to master, but I'm not sure how anything in master got updated since I'm working on a branch ... or maybe I have a fundamental misunderstanding about git. Or maybe I did something really wrong. Or both. | 18:45 |
| nkinkade | Do you have a second. | 18:45 |
| nkinkade | ? | 18:45 |
| paulproteus | nkinkade, ya | 18:45 |
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| hdworak | bye! | 19:03 |
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| DanL- | hello | 19:49 |
| DanL- | anyone around? | 19:49 |
| paulproteus | DanL-, Sure. | 20:03 |
| DanL- | hi | 20:04 |
| DanL- | do you know if there's a good CC definition (outside of on the licenses themselves) for "non-commercial"? | 20:05 |
| paulproteus | DanL-, Basically, it's not very tightly defined. | 20:05 |
| paulproteus | The reason for that is that it's very subjective. | 20:05 |
| paulproteus | Which in some ways isn't a very helpful answer. There are guidelines CC has published, but they're not an official opinion. | 20:06 |
| DanL- | Yeah | 20:06 |
| paulproteus | http://wiki.creativecommons.org/NonCommercial_Guidelines has those from two or three yeras ago. | 20:06 |
| DanL- | that's okay | 20:07 |
| DanL- | It's hard to do a westlaw search on this | 20:07 |
| DanL- | the question is rather narrow but the wealth of information broad | 20:07 |
| DanL- | wow some of this is non-sensical | 20:10 |
| DanL- | http://wiki.creativecommons.org/DiscussionDraftNonCommercial_Guidelines B3 | 20:10 |
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| paulproteus | Yo ftobia. | 20:13 |
| DanL- | any idea what that is trying to say? | 20:13 |
| ftobia | yo paulproteus | 20:13 |
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| jibot | greg-g is "developing" the "community" for "creative commons" | 21:08 |
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| rejon | greg-g-- | 21:32 |
| greg-g | ??????????????? | 21:32 |
| rejon | greg-g+2 | 21:32 |
| rejon | ;) | 21:32 |
| greg-g | hiya :) | 21:33 |
| rejon | rejon++ | 21:33 |
| rejon | wrd | 21:33 |
| rejon | got the bike ;)\ | 21:33 |
| paulproteus | rejon-- # self-promotion | 21:33 |
| rejon | yah | 21:33 |
| rejon | is there a list of rules for points? | 21:33 |
| greg-g | "the bike" == from that shop or joi's? | 21:33 |
| paulproteus | The shop I imagine | 21:33 |
| rejon | (paulproteus--)-- for being jibots cronie | 21:33 |
| rejon | no, office | 21:33 |
| rejon | already getting casestudy notices: http://flickr.com/photos/aussiepatches/2491070692/ | 21:34 |
| paulproteus | Oh, icey. | 21:34 |
| greg-g | ?karma (paulproteus--) | 21:34 |
| jibot | (paulproteus--) has -1 points | 21:34 |
| paulproteus | greg-g, I think rejon doesn't like the "scare quotes". | 21:34 |
| rejon | i don't know what you are talking about | 21:34 |
| * paulproteus whistles idly | 21:34 | |
| rejon | yah, well we got ice cream from the mission | 21:34 |
| paulproteus | Bi-Rite? | 21:35 |
| rejon | y | 21:35 |
| greg-g | 'twas good | 21:35 |
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| rejon | --rejon | 21:53 |
| rejon | jibot: --rejon | 21:53 |
| rejon | ?karma rejon | 21:53 |
| jibot | rejon has 3 points | 21:53 |
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| isforinsects | Hello all | 23:12 |
| isforinsects | I have a very interesting terms of use document that I would like to discuss. | 23:12 |
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| paulproteus | isforinsects, What's it like? | 23:44 |
| isforinsects | A very large educational resource called ALEX with what looks like a CC-by-nc plus an only educational use clause | 23:45 |
| isforinsects | paulproteus: So here's the scoop. SJ and I are working up some kind of workflow for our volunteers who find material that don't have acceptable licenses. | 23:45 |
| paulproteus | Debian-style (-: | 23:46 |
| isforinsects | (btw, I just missed the last train, so I'm here for the night) | 23:46 |
| isforinsects | Does debian have something similar? | 23:46 |
| paulproteus | "here"? | 23:46 |
| paulproteus | Cambridge? | 23:46 |
| isforinsects | 1cc | 23:46 |
| isforinsects | Yes | 23:46 |
| paulproteus | Oh! | 23:46 |
| paulproteus | I'm sure you could crash on a couch at Random or something. | 23:46 |
| paulproteus | But there are worse places than 1cc to be for a night probably. | 23:47 |
| isforinsects | I'm back from NYC or Virginia or wherever else I was when I talked to you last. | 23:47 |
| paulproteus | Hah. | 23:47 |
| isforinsects | 1cc does have a damn comfortable couch | 23:47 |
| paulproteus | Excellent. | 23:47 |
| paulproteus | Many luminaries have likely slept there. (-: | 23:47 |
| paulproteus | Anyway, Debian has unacceptable licenses at least. | 23:47 |
| paulproteus | I don't know of a written, explicit process for asking upstream to change license. | 23:47 |
| paulproteus | But they (we...) do try. | 23:47 |
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| isforinsects | So yeah. We're gonna do it. | 23:49 |
| isforinsects | I am really good at finding new tasks like this *sigh* | 23:49 |
| isforinsects | Hence my need to create processes for others to contribute to them, instead of my trying to finish all of them (not going to happen) | 23:49 |
| paulproteus | Agreed. | 23:50 |
| paulproteus | How are you tracking the state of these communications? | 23:50 |
| paulproteus | The standard Debian way is to CC: a bug tracker email that publicly archives the email. | 23:50 |
| paulproteus | That way someone can (a) know what was done, and (b) pick up where it was left off later. | 23:51 |
| paulproteus | Debian historically isn't big on task sharing, but the past few years have seen quite some changes to that. | 23:51 |
| isforinsects | back, sorry | 23:53 |
| isforinsects | Getting used to Mac os again | 23:53 |
| paulproteus | Sorry to hear that (-: | 23:53 |
| isforinsects | I don't know if I am going to set up an RT email ticket system or if I am going to get people to explicitly document communication (not as nice as RT) | 23:54 |
| isforinsects | Yeah, well it's a media editing machine for video from 1cc | 23:54 |
| paulproteus | RT is a pain and not public by default and has complicated UI. | 23:54 |
| paulproteus | Maybe you'll like the SMW-based task tracking stuff CC is releasing soon. | 23:54 |
| isforinsects | I'm not entirely sure how I feel about using Propietary software for media editing, but the *nix equivalents aren't as nice. I would like to improve said projects, but one thing at a time. | 23:55 |
| paulproteus | Maybe CC's tech intern focusing on it could do an email interface later. (-; | 23:55 |
| paulproteus | Yes, one thing at a time. | 23:55 |
| isforinsects | We're FINALLY gettin smw going here. | 23:55 |
| isforinsects | Oh? | 23:55 |
| isforinsects | Please tell me more! | 23:55 |
| paulproteus | Well, it's pretty straightforward - a Template:Task and Form:Task and Category:Task, and some slick templates for easy user "What tasks am I working on?" pages. | 23:55 |
| paulproteus | Keep in mind, I still dislike all task tracking systems. (-; | 23:56 |
| paulproteus | It might be easy/interesting to support an API of either Trac or Bugzilla actually so we can pretend to existing tools it's one of those. | 23:56 |
| paulproteus | It's mostly the work of Nathan Yergler, but Steren Giannnini is assigned this summer to work on improvements. | 23:56 |
| isforinsects | Hrrm, shiny. | 23:57 |
| isforinsects | We've been having conversations about Magic Pixie Dust off and on, and getting SMW going here on our wiki (which is awfully messy) | 23:57 |
| paulproteus | It just got support for being able to subscribe by email to a "project" (group of tasks) and to see when a task assigned to you gets updated. | 23:58 |
| paulproteus | It's not very hard. | 23:58 |
| paulproteus | You install SMW and the SF form extension. | 23:58 |
| paulproteus | And then, like, you're done. | 23:58 |
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