Friday, 2007-08-17

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CIA-39nkinkade * r6758 /ccoer/trunk/scripts/cc_oer/import_mit.py: Adding a script to process MIT RSS feed data12:45
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cchelpbotNew news from http://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/index.php?title=special:recentchanges&feed=rss: JsWidget/Plan <http://wiki.creativecommons.org/JsWidget/Plan>13:42
CIA-39jakin44 * r6759 /liblicense-kde/trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): KDE4 cleanups, fix beta1 build, i18n the KDE way13:48
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cchelpbotNew news from http://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/index.php?title=special:recentchanges&feed=rss: Jswidget <http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Jswidget>13:54
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tannewtrejon, the patches hit a hold up because they need to be done 'the right way' which doesn't work14:25
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tannewtrejon, its just angering me14:27
rejonhowso, what is wrong with them?14:28
rejonexplain the right way?14:28
tannewtrejon, the right way woul dbe using gtk.Image's icon_size property and I used another _size variable altogether14:29
tannewtrejon, because the image stuff didn't work so I circumvented it14:29
rejonaha, just convince them that theirs is broken14:29
rejonand or get them to fix it14:29
tannewtrejon, thats what I'm doing14:30
jakintannewt, welcome to the world of submitting patches ;-)14:30
* tannewt mutters, "stupid gtk"14:30
rejonah, its just part of the process ;)14:30
rejonmaking the maintainers happy14:30
rejonsocial engineering14:30
tannewtrejon, well, he committed it without even seeing if the original problem was fixed14:31
rejonhhahaha14:31
tannewtrejon, I thought we scratched odf support14:33
* tannewt is looking at http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Liblicense_04_release_todo14:33
tannewtrejon, when are you guys gonna sort out the default-content-license chooser stuff?14:34
rejonoh yah, paulproteus: what was the decision to make there?14:35
rejonwe made decision wrt to jswidget14:35
rejonwhat would be a clean way to do that on the license chooser14:36
tannewtrejon, hes not at his desk14:36
tannewtunless of course, he is invisible14:36
rejonok, lets check with asheesh once he's back in14:37
* tannewt inserts a comma after unless14:37
tannewtk14:38
* jakin broke 'make dist'14:38
tannewtjakin, shame, I was thinking we should create some RC1 tarballs to work on the packaging stuff on14:39
* jakin is fixing it :-P14:39
tannewtjakin, what do you think about an RC1?14:39
jakin0.4, rc1?14:39
jakintannewt,14:39
tannewtjakin, yeah, so I can start on packaging14:40
rejoni hate rc14:41
jakintannewt, why an rc?  maybe an unofficial rc1....14:41
tannewtyeah, just for us14:41
rejoncool14:41
CIA-39bse * r6760 /ccwordpress/trunk/www/images/people/ (ani.jpg jennifer.jpg): photo updates14:41
tannewtit doesn't make sense to me why release candidates are themselves released14:42
CIA-39jakin44 * r6761 /liblicense/trunk/po/Makefile.in: Fix 'make dist'14:43
rejontannewt: agreed14:44
jakini think it works for some projects14:44
paulproteustannewt, Because you want everyone to test 1.0RC1 so that they find bugs so you don't find them in 1.0.14:48
paulproteusAlso, hi rejon.14:48
paulproteusWhoa, big pile of scrollback.14:48
rejonhi14:48
jakinpaulproteus, theoretically :-P14:48
rejonlike backwash14:48
paulproteus#define GTK_IS_BROKEN 114:49
paulproteus#ifdef GTK_IS_BROKEN14:49
paulproteus<wrong way>14:49
paulproteus#else14:49
paulproteus<right way>14:49
paulproteus#endif14:49
paulproteus<rejon> making the maintainers happy14:50
paulproteus<rejon> SoCal engineering14:50
paulproteusAnyway, rejon, the idea is to have a radio button at the top:14:50
paulproteus(X) A Creative Commons license ( ) No license (i)14:50
bovinityif i recall, back in the day, it was because 0.99.57 started looking a bit absurd.14:50
rejonhmmm14:50
paulproteus(i) is an info box that does the mouseover tooltips like the rest of our info boxes that briefly summarizes what happens with no license.14:50
rejonWe don't want to make the license chooser CC-specific14:51
paulproteusI'm talking about JsWidget.14:51
rejonI know14:51
paulproteusWhich is okay if it's CC-specific.14:51
paulproteusAs I understand things...?14:51
rejonjust thinking out loud about how to apply that logic to license chooser14:51
* paulproteus nods14:51
* tannewt lets rejon and paulproteus sort out the license chooser14:51
paulproteusWhy, thanks!14:51
tannewtpaulproteus, np14:52
paulproteusI'm thinking there's got to be some delicious pizza to be had for lunch around here.14:53
tannewtpaulproteus, I brought lunch14:54
paulproteusDid you bring delicious pizza?14:54
tannewtnope14:54
bovinitydelicious pizza...14:54
paulproteusI had some pretty good pizza somewhere around Mission and 1st street last week.14:54
rejonhmmm...best fix15:00
rejonif we just had a no license state for the entire chooser15:00
rejonall things greyed out15:00
rejonmaybe a generic checkbox to enable license chooser15:01
bovinitythat's what i was thinking15:01
tannewtrejon, that doesn't work, that only solves the issue of having  a license or not15:01
tannewtrejon, the issue is invalid attribute combinations15:01
bovinityis it possible to store all possible combinations, and only allow those? or does that overcompllicate it?15:02
tannewtbovinity, it changes a lot of the backend I think but I can see how that could work15:03
jakinbut you might go through an invalid selection to get to a valid one15:03
tannewtthats the question, is there a path of valid licenses to every other license?15:04
paulproteusHoly Finite State Machine, Batman!15:04
jakineven if there is, that's bad to require the user to check things in a particular order15:04
paulproteusRight, that's why I think that refusing to close when they have an invalid state is important.15:05
paulproteusHow do our other license choosers handle this?15:05
paulproteusOr do they just not offer invalid choices at all?15:05
paulproteushttp://creativecommons.org/license15:06
bovinityour other choosers are solely CC, and don't allow invalid choices15:06
paulproteusRight, this allows some licenses, usually with inaccurate or misleading metadata.15:06
paulproteussome non-CC licenses, I mean.15:06
paulproteusAlthough it's not as if we offer an option (X) Allow people to apply DRM to your work15:06
paulproteusAnd none of our licenses let you do that, whereas e.g. GPL does in a way.15:07
rejonWell, since there is a this idea of a result at the end of the checkboxes, into the license and URI field15:08
bovinitythis kinda emphasises the incompatibility between us and them - shoehorning other licenses into our terminology. :/15:08
paulproteusI know, it is sad.15:08
rejonI think we just need a note/warning at the bottom of the pane, above those boxes that states in RED or whatever HIG inline alert says, "Invalid Selection, change optoins"15:08
rejonand gray out the license selection and don't let user close the chooser15:09
paulproteus"We do not have a license that matches those options"15:09
bovinitydefinitely an inline warning15:09
rejonbovinity/paulproteus: its a first step15:09
rejonyes15:09
paulproteusrejon, A first step toward incompatibility?15:09
rejonOr, something that says: Your system doesn't have a license installed which matches those options.15:10
rejonwrong15:10
paulproteusHah.15:10
jakintannewt, will the api allow preventing closing the chooser?15:10
rejonpessimist15:10
rejonfirst step towards getting others involved...15:10
bovinityyou can't stop someone from closing/deleting a window15:10
tannewtjakin, don't think so, we can't stop a destroy signal15:11
bovinitymake it throw an alert popup if they do hit close. "are you sure?" sort of thing15:11
rejonI think it should be inline15:12
bovinitythat too15:12
paulproteusbovinity, tannewt, You totally can stop window close....15:12
paulproteusI'm pretty sure...15:12
rejonbecause, this is a widget, so would be problematic to have a popup15:12
paulproteusHmm, maybe I'm wrong about this.15:13
rejony15:14
paulproteusI'm going to JsWidget hack instead of looking into it deeper, but if it is possible to not let it be closed then do that. (-:15:14
paulproteus(I agree, pop-up bad.)15:14
jakinpaulproteus, there's the KDE api to worry about too... i don't think preventing it from being closed is the right way to go15:15
rejondon't or do15:15
paulproteusIf we let the dialog close, then we imply to the user his changes were saved successfully.15:15
paulproteusIn the case where that's not possible, why would we want to let the dialog close?15:15
paulproteus(I agree, the KDE4 API needs to be checked-out too.)15:16
jakinpaulproteus, not if there's a message indicating otherwise15:16
rejonok, decision time:15:16
paulproteusjakin, Recall bovinity's remark that people don't read.15:16
paulproteusThat message is something, but letting him close it despite the message is still wrong.15:16
rejonlets do inline warning with the text or something above that is similar right above the license selected and URI fields15:16
bovinitythey may notice a 48x48 alert icon in the warning field. :D15:17
rejonpreferbably with a warning icon and/or warning/error style text (red anyone?) and then not allow it to close if possible15:17
paulproteusbovinity, Hah, 48x48 indeed.15:17
rejonhowever, its up to the user...and this is the general policy for cc stuff...put it onto the user to decide15:17
rejoncool?15:17
rejonlook at how pidgin does inline errors too15:18
rejonpidgin/gaim15:18
jakini think it'd be annoying to prevent a dialog from closing15:18
rejonI agree15:18
rejonits unamerican15:18
paulproteusI guess the warning should also say "Your changes will not be saved."15:18
rejonthe inline warning is the way to go15:19
rejonYah, that is good...15:19
tannewtwheres the warning go?15:19
rejonI think between the input (checkboxes) and the output (license, uri fields)15:20
rejonthat is where the error is at15:20
rejoninput/output error15:20
rejoncool?15:20
tannewtrejon, works for me if no one has any other issues with it15:21
rejonpaulproteus: btw, looking to get jswidget and facebook integration now15:21
paulproteusrejon, I saw those emails.  I guess you're talking to the video and photo app developers?15:21
rejonpaulproteus: also, think we should wait to do big press push on jswidget until first integration (similar to olpc/liblicense approach)15:21
paulproteusI'm still not a fan of Facebook apps, but whatever it takes to spread Free Culture.15:22
paulproteusrejon, Agreed.15:22
rejonyah, I'm not a fan either15:22
rejonI was hoping for deeper integration15:22
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rejonjswidget, I wouldn't consider core to their needs15:22
paulproteusrejon, We could have a mini press release when WpLicense gets released.15:22
rejonlike hooking in licensing into their apps framework so all can immediately take advantage of it15:22
rejonyah, agree15:22
rejonfix that shitbox15:22
paulproteusI do want to have a WpLicense+JsWidget release before external people have a big release, too.15:22
rejonYah, I just want per item licensing and feed licensing with wplicense15:23
paulproteusHmm, we should have that ticket tracker...15:23
rejonpush up to sf.net15:23
paulproteusBlah.15:23
rejonwe should use that for tracking15:23
rejonwaste of time to debate it15:23
paulproteusBut it's featureless and ugly.15:24
paulproteusNo debate - Just Use Trac.15:24
rejon...............15:24
paulproteusOh, and non-programmable.15:24
paulproteusI guess that goes back to featureless.15:24
rejon...it works...now...15:24
paulproteusSure, file tickets there right now, okay.15:24
paulproteusNot saying we shouldn't use the existing infrastructure right now.15:25
paulproteusWhoa, 12:25?15:25
rejonbrb15:25
paulproteusbovinity: eat?15:26
bovinityaye15:26
rejonbovinity: who did the cd manufacturing for worldlabel?15:27
rejonsfvideo?15:27
bovinityyeah15:27
rejonbovinity: so overall for livecontent cd, cst 3700?15:30
rejonthat seems really high15:30
rejonand not sure where I have that figure from15:30
bovinitythat sounds higher than it was15:31
bovinitylet me check the quotes15:31
rejonwe only spent on livecontent cds right?15:31
rejonno poster or othe rthings...I must have added something into that15:31
bovinity2503, my notes say15:31
bovinityi dunno where that other 1200 would have come from15:31
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tannewtrejon, we scratched odf and regressions tests right?17:13
rejonright17:14
rejonregressions would be cool17:14
rejonbut OLPC is sufficed in your design17:14
rejonbetter to focus on OLPC and getting those patches in17:14
rejonand release17:14
rejonpaulproteus: do you have an eta on the adobe metadata panel stuff?17:15
tannewtrejon, yeah, could you email the folks who can create top down pressure to add license.py to sugar?17:15
rejonyes, can you send me an email with relevant bug URLs, etc17:15
paulproteusrejon, Oh, good question.17:15
rejonthen will forward one17:15
paulproteusI'll give you an ETA later today....17:15
rejonpaulproteus: what are your top 3 priorities right now?17:15
tannewtrejon, sure17:16
paulproteusJsWidget changes, then something?, then Adobe Metadata Panel17:16
tannewtrejon, I'll make bugs for it after I do the warning in the license chooser17:16
paulproteusI guess "something?" is the new license chooser stuff.17:16
paulproteus              still17:17
paulproteusThis bill is ^      legal tender17:17
paulproteus                                   you punks17:17
paulproteusfor all debts, public or private ^17:17
paulproteusEr, wrong channel.17:17
paulproteusAnyway.17:17
* paulproteus clears his throat and get back to work.17:17
rejonhahaha17:21
rejonthx17:21
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cchelpbotNew news from http://creativecommons.org/weblog/rss: Spoon + Keepon video uploaded to blip.tv <http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/7617>17:51
rejoncchelpbot still has a function!18:00
cchelpbotrejon: Error: "still" is not a valid command.18:01
* tannewt still dislikes cchelpbot18:02
* jakin thinks it's personal18:02
tannewtwhat should we show where the warning appears f its not there18:02
tannewts/f/if18:02
rejonOne thought would be to have the full name of the license selected, but in a friendly, more bold selection18:04
* paulproteus slaps some sense into cchelpbot 18:04
* paulproteus misses and hits rejon instead18:05
paulproteusHmm.18:05
rejonthe other one is nothing18:05
rejon...18:05
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cchelpbotNew news from http://creativecommons.org/weblog/rss: Christopher Willits releases four new CC-licensed music videos <http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/7618>18:11
tannewtrejon, but license names are way long18:13
CIA-39paulproteus * r6762 /jswidget/trunk/ (gen_template_js.py js/cc-license.js template.html): In the "what if?" scenario where we lose the jurisdiction box, we turn out to be okay now18:14
paulproteusWow, the CIA is quick.18:14
tannewtpaulproteus, yeah, I noticed that yesterday18:15
paulproteusI noticed that before too, but I'm still noticing.18:15
paulproteusI can't code as fast as this Bad Religion music makes me.18:17
paulproteusmakes me want to.18:17
jakinoooh, curry-in-a-hurry on law and order :-P18:19
tannewtjakin, whaa?18:19
paulproteusYeah, like, what?18:19
jakinthey just mentioned getting "curry-in-a-hurry" :-P18:20
tannewtrejon, icon stuff works in sugar git now18:20
rejondope18:20
tannewtreally? you mean its not unique to CC?18:20
tannewtrejon, should we wait to push sugar integration until we have liblicense rpms for them?18:21
paulproteusrejon, oh my God, I do not want to make a Facebook app.18:22
paulproteusFor one, I really do not agree to the Facebook Platform terms of service.18:22
* paulproteus gulps18:22
tannewtrejon, make him! (hehe)18:22
tannewtits a CC initiation test18:22
* paulproteus bites his nails18:22
jakintannewt, what's our handling of no checkboxes selected?18:23
tannewtjakin, maybe None with no error warning?18:24
tannewtrejon and paulproteus, never figured it out :-P18:24
jakin:-/18:24
rejonyes, we did...scrollback18:25
tannewtrejon, a checkbox?18:27
jakintannewt, i'll take care of kde changes this weekend, after this is all certain :-P18:34
* tannewt grumbles18:35
rejonjust decided the warning18:36
rejonno checkbox for on/off18:36
rejonif not a good set of options, use the warning above the license and URI box18:36
rejoncool?|18:36
tannewtrejon, but what about unsetting the license altogether?18:37
tannewtjakin, we could probably add support for custom entered uis18:37
tannewts/uis/uris18:38
tannewtshould the text be, "WARNING: The current selection will not be saved."?18:38
jakintannewt, errr... more to figure out18:38
tannewtI know, should we just push this stuff back to Monday?18:38
rejonyah18:39
tannewtorangejello, "WARNING: No such license exists."?18:39
tannewtack18:39
tannewtnvm orangejello18:39
jakina guy in the kde-devel channel keeps doing that to me :-P18:39
rejontannewt: that sounds good18:40
rejonlike it18:40
rejonimplies one could exist, just not installed on the system ;)18:40
tannewtrejon, you like the first or second?18:40
rejonA combo of both18:41
tannewtrejon, then it is too long18:42
rejonThe warning is the big text18:42
rejonthe rest is smaller, right?18:42
tannewtrejon, no its all the same size atm18:42
tannewtrejon, it does have an icon :-)18:43
rejonok, the 2nd one18:43
tannewtok18:44
CIA-39paulproteus * r6763 /jswidget/trunk/template.html: stopped commenting-out the jurisdiction box18:46
tannewtrejon, what about no license?18:47
paulproteusARR!18:47
* tannewt points to paulproteus the pirate18:47
jakintannewt, if we allow custom uris, then we just would get rid of the warning if the "License URI" field changes?18:50
tannewtjakin, dunno, lets talk about custom URIs monday18:51
jakintannewt, fine18:51
tannewtjakin, well, custom uris for other licenses we track (have rdf for)18:51
jakintannewt, err... yeah, monday sounds good :-P18:52
tannewtjakin, :-D, okay18:52
* jakin wants to see Jack McCoy put this guy away18:52
tannewthehe18:54
CIA-39nkinkade * r6764 /ccoer/trunk/scripts/cc_oer/ (import_mit.py import_oer_commons.py): New script for OER Commons data, and moved import_mit.py to SQLAlchemy18:57
CIA-39paulproteus * r6765 /jswidget/trunk/example_web_app/ (index.html with-seed-old-version.html with-seed.html): reference trunk again; also, stop CSSing the bodies19:02
paulproteusI keep thinking someone wants to chat with me.19:02
CIA-39tannewt * r6766 /liblicense-gnome/trunk/src/ (default-content-license.in gui_gtk.py.in): Added a warning for cases with no license.19:04
cchelpbotNew news from http://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/index.php?title=special:recentchanges&feed=rss: Http://auviwatcheckoutmypage.com/index.php <http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Http://auviwatcheckoutmypage.com/index.php>19:07
paulproteusUh, yay.19:07
tannewtspammers: +119:08
tannewthmm, DNE19:09
paulproteustannewt, pay attention to the number of "/" in your web browser.19:09
tannewtthe wiki page DNE but I get taken to the wiki19:10
paulproteusI removed it and blocked the loser.19:10
tannewtah, you are fast19:10
paulproteustannewt, "http:/" or "http://"19:10
paulproteusLook in your web browser.19:10
tannewt/19:10
tannewthehe ///19:10
tannewtack19:10
tannewthehe //19:10
* tannewt needs the weekend19:11
CIA-39paulproteus * r6767 /jswidget/trunk/ (complete.js gen_template_js.py): should have a sane way to disable jurisdiction box19:11
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cchelpbotNew news from http://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/index.php?title=special:recentchanges&feed=rss: Special:Log/delete <http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Special:Log/delete> || Special:Log/block <http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Special:Log/block>19:17
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paulproteusHello ksiomelo!19:19
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jakintannewt, btw, the kde license chooser allows returning multiple licenses19:25
tannewtjakin, really? using what a combobox?19:25
jakinyeah19:25
tannewthmm, well if it wasn't friday afternoon....19:25
jakini just realized i was messing with that a few weeks ago19:25
* tannewt grins19:26
jakintannewt, otherwise, the two are in sync :-)19:26
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tannewtjakin, remind me monday19:27
jakintannewt, can do19:27
tannewt:-)19:28
ksiomelohello19:29
ksiomelo=)19:29
tannewthi ksiomelo19:31
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CIA-39paulproteus * r6768 /jswidget/trunk/js/cc-license.js: do not generate a short license if we are generic!20:11
CIA-39paulproteus * r6769 /jswidget/trunk/ (Makefile js/cc-license.js template.html): template now lets you not pick a CC license - does the JS, though?20:14
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CIA-39paulproteus * r6770 /jswidget/trunk/ (js/cc-license.js template.html): reasonable function names now20:18
CIA-39tannewt * r6771 /liblicense-gnome/trunk/src/gui_gtk.py.in: Added yellow warning background.20:23
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bovinitysweet.20:24
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CIA-39nkinkade * r6772 /ccoer/trunk/scripts/cc_oer/ (import_mit.py import_oer_commons.py): Minor alterations. Set warnings to raise exceptions20:41
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paulproteusrejon, Actually, i"ll give you that ETA this weekend.21:14
cchelpbotNew news from http://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/index.php?title=special:recentchanges&feed=rss: User talk:377704497 <http://wiki.creativecommons.org/User_talk:377704497>21:26
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