Friday, 2010-08-20

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Jefrohi all - I was pointed here by paulproteus (thanks)00:05
* paulproteus waves to Jefro00:05
JefroI have some questions about cc and other licenses, particularly BSD, for a project that is hardware-based rather than software-based.  Anyone feel like tackling?00:06
akozakJefro, I'm about to head home so I can't help but if you don't get any answers tonight feel free to email the cc-community list:
akozakor ask again during working hours PST :P00:08
akozakBut we're mostly knowledgeable about CC, not BSD licenses00:09
Jefroakozak Ok, thanks - I'll email community.  Mostly curious about the best way to license hardware, CC or BSD or ??00:09
akozakor rather, we're less likely to be able to answer questions about BSD00:09
nyergleri suspect the answer is "it depends"00:10
akozakJefro, depends on what you mean by "license hardware".00:10
nyerglerhardware is tricky, since there are more than just copyrights involved00:10
Jefroakozak - cool, thanks (just subscribed to list).  this hardware is a special case, already "open" (loosely licensed BSD-like). I want to recommend how to license it properly to ensure it can continue.  Will post more on mailing list, thanks for the links.00:12
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CC_HudsonProject deedscraper build (5): SUCCESS in 5 min 6 sec:
CC_HudsonProject metadata_scraper build (7): SUCCESS in 1 min 37 sec:
CC_HudsonProject cc.engine build (14): STILL FAILING in 7 min 12 sec:
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MariuszHi there, hope there's anyone present here03:03
MariuszI have an important question, and I am in a little hurry also03:04
MariuszMy question is pasted to
MariuszPlease check it and give me an answer03:05
MariuszEither here (I will keep this window open) or to my mail: realsyco@o2.pl03:06
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karlcowThe Costs of Ownership: Why Copyright Protection Will Hurt the Fashion Industry11:18
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akila87paroneayea: Hi, are you busy?14:04
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paroneayeahi akila8714:10
paroneayeawell I just got on :)14:10
paroneayeawhat's up14:10
akila87i tested the plugin in windows 64 bits also there OOO comes with a 32 bit jvm bundled so there is no problem with that.14:11
akila87but in win ooo does not recognize 64 bit jvm14:12
akila87I'm wandering how it does in Mac14:12
akila87in the screen shots that Timothy send me OpenOffice is using a jvm14:14
akila87so I think our explanation about not detecting jvm is not valid.14:15
akila87and I found a issue on this
akila87I'm still going through it :)14:16
akila87just wanted to keep you updated.14:16
paroneayeahum interesting14:18
paroneayeayeah thanks for the update akila8714:18
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paroneayeanyergler: hey16:23
nyerglerparoneayea, morning16:24
paroneayea "basic" is the only one not wrapped in <p>16:24
nyerglerparoneayea, it can be wrapped in <p> as far as i'm concerned16:24
nyerglerjust not necessary16:24
paroneayeaalso "Guidelines specified" is missing a closing </p>, assuming that's an error16:25
nyerglerit is :)16:25
nyergleralthough that one isn't something you have to generate at the moment, we'll just support in deeds16:25
paroneayeakk, I'll fix it16:25
nyerglerugh, not sure if i looped you into that conversation --16:25
nyerglerthe "norms" field needs to go away for the time being on the chooser16:25
paroneayeaoh okay16:26
paroneayeaand in the formatter as well then16:26
nyerglerright; it'll probably come back at some point in the future16:26
nyerglerbut not part of the initial package16:26
paroneayea you said no work url but16:27
paroneayeawhat about creator url?16:27
paroneayeaoh wait16:27
paroneayeaokay yes that is still a question :)16:28
nyergleryes, we should support a creator url16:28
paroneayeaokay cool16:28
nyerglerbtw, is the latest mockup16:28
nyerglerbefore you start doing deed templates, you should ping mralex for the latest HTML16:29
nyergleri *think* those are mostly locked down after today16:29
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paroneayeanyergler: seems that some of these i18n strings may change around a bit before launch16:35
paroneayeaI wonder if it makes sense to make a pdmark i18n branch?16:35
paroneayeanm that's a bad idea.16:36
nyerglerthey may change, but don't think we need a branch at the moment16:36
paroneayeachanged my mind, we have enough problems with branches atm :D16:36
nyerglerwe can just defer extraction until they're locked16:36
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paroneayeanyergler: I just hope we get the icons in before the merge16:46
paroneayeaif we forget we might be attacked by Reapers16:46
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akila87paroneayea: Hi16:47
paroneayeahi akila8716:47
akila87paroneayea: I sent you the post. looks like waiting for clarify the mac os issue is not a good thing.16:48
paroneayeaakila87: ok, thanks16:49
paroneayealooking now16:49
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paroneayeaakila87: replied16:59
akila87paroneayea: thanks :)17:00
akila87and its the final day of GSoC17:00
nkinkadenyergler: Was it my imagination or did I receive an invite for a tech meeting at 10AM PDT for today?17:12
nyerglerthat's in a couple weeks17:12
nyerglerthe 3rd17:13
nkinkadeAh ha.  I was right about the day of week, just waaaay off on the date. :-)17:17
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akozakpaulproteus, this call is still going on18:00
paulproteusakozak: Alack18:08
paulproteusIt's amazing how lame I am in my time-wasting.18:09
paulproteusAll I ever do, when I feel like it's okay to waste time, is hit Ctrl-T and go to Slashdot.18:09
* nyergler suspects there are stories in Pivotal that haven't been done... ;)18:10
paulproteusThe first step is admitting I have a problem (-:18:11
* paulproteus starts a pomodoro and gets to wr0k18:11
akila87 nyergler:  I removed the releases. See whether you can upload it now.18:14
nyerglerakila87, it still seems to think it exists18:17
nyerglerdid you remove the entire extension?18:17
akozakpaulproteus, just ended18:18
paulproteusakozak: Okay, gimme 10 min myself18:19
akila87nyergler: no.  only the version. now i deleted the whole extension.18:19
akozakpaulproteus, anything i can do in the meantime18:20
akozakam i just doing some feed/curator  administration18:20
nyerglerok, i'm going to log out/log in, and try again18:20
paulproteusakozak: We're going to do a totally fresh install.18:20
paulproteusakozak: Let's set up a screen on the new machine with "screen -x" so you can type while I watch.18:20
akozaknow or in 10 min?18:21
nyerglerpaulproteus: just wondering if this is the sanest thing18:21
nyergleris it important that akozak be able to clean install/configure tomcat?18:21
paulproteusI leave that personnel decision in your hands as his supervisor. (-;18:21
nyergleri mean, we want our instructions to be complete, but were they ever that complete?18:21
paulproteusIf you want, then, I can do the fresh setup, and start him with an empty install and watch him add curators etc.?18:22
nyerglerthat seems to be the level we were operating at previously18:22
nyerglerdoes that seem sane to you?18:22
paulproteusYup, fine by me! Doing so now then.18:22
nyerglersince that's also the level that you can get to by just grabbing gimme-discovered18:22
akozakp.s. I don't think I have access to the new machine.18:23
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paulproteusakozak: I can change that! (or so can nkinkade)18:24
akila87nyergler: Is it working?18:24
nyerglerstill waiting... upload is slow18:25
paulproteusakozak: Do you have an SSH key I can add? I presume akozak on the machine is the right username.18:26
akozakpaulproteus, yea you need the .pub right?18:26
paulproteusakozak: ya18:26
akozakpaulproteus, ok emailing, hoping this is the right one18:26
akozaksent. btw what does "b" mean?18:28
akozakhaha, I loled18:29
akozakb d18:29
paulproteusakozak: Okay -- you should be able to ssh in to akozak@discovered.labs.creativecommons.org18:30
paulproteusPlus you have a file ~/password .18:31
akozakyea it shouldn't be asking me for a pwd right?18:31
akozakI have like 3 different .pub keys floating around18:31
nyerglerakila87, still fails, still seems to believe the old one exists18:31
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paulproteusakozak: Yeah, it shouldn't be.18:32
nyerglerakila87, i'm going to try and host it on our server, provide a download link18:32
nyerglerakozak, if you have multiple keys in .ssh, you'll need to use -i when ssh'ing18:32
paulproteusI'm going to do the basic setup stuff first, and I suggest you ask NK or NY to make you a shell there first, unless I beat them to it by finishing the initial deployment.18:32
akila87nyergler:  use this link
akila87nyergler:  Christopher uploaded that.18:33
akozakgod ssh keys have always been a pain for me for some reason18:34
paulproteusakozak: Here are some tips. When you give them out, give out all your *.pub files in one bundle.18:34
nyerglerakila87, what's the final version number? 0.7.0? 0.7.1?18:34
akozakpaulproteus, well I tried -i for both of my keys and neither worked18:34
akila87nyergler: looks like the extension versions does not remove even if we remove the extesnsion.18:34
akozakand I have some odd detached .pub in my home dir18:34
akila87 nyergler:  0.7.018:34
paulproteusakozak: One other problem is sysadmins like me often screw up adding them.18:35
paulproteusWIth permissions and filenames and the like.18:35
paulproteusIn fact...18:35
paulproteusYup, the filename I used was wrong. retry.18:35
akozakpaulproteus, worked :)18:35
paulproteusEr, tomato break.18:36
nyerglerakila87, done!18:36
akila87nyergler: and can you please add this as the Download from page / Open follow up page: 18:38
* paulproteus is Bach18:42
paulproteusnyergler and akozak: I think the way today is shaping up, I'm going to deploy this myself, then watch akozak add some curators and feeds (nyergler -- just ND OCW, I guess?) and make sure the docs are okay, then nyergler can we skip our check-in for today, and just check in Mon morn?18:50
paulproteusakozak: Realistically I'm not going to have this ready for you before 12 PDT; what's your post-12 PDT schedule like?18:50
akozakpaulproteus, shower, lunch, might relocate to a coffee shop. any of those can be delayed as needed18:52
paulproteusI suggest you and I finish what we need by 1 PM PDT, and then I break for the day DiscoverEd-wise.18:53
akozakpaulproteus, ok that works for me18:53
paulproteusnyergler: I'm going to assume that works for you too, but say so if not.18:53
paulproteusnyergler: I'm also going to assume you want this in a system Tomcat; apt-getting tomcat5.5 for that reason.19:00
nyerglerpaulproteus, sounds good, maybe we can check in early on Monday since I'll be getting on a plane to DC19:05
paulproteusakozak: Okay, so -- ssh to then "screen -x" so I can see what you see19:05
paulproteusnyergler: Sounds good, you name the time and I'll do it.19:05
nyerglerI think my flight leaves at 1030, so maybe just a phone call to sync up at 930 or something?19:05
nyergleri won't be online, so can you just plan to call my cell then?19:06
paulproteusnyergler: Sure -- calendar'd19:06
akozakpaulproteus, says there is no screen to attach19:06
paulproteusOh, sorry -- you just do "screen" then to make a screen.19:06
paulproteusakozak: One thing we should be doing is making sure the docs still apply.19:08
paulproteusSo to that end, you might as well say which docs you're reading.19:08
paulproteusAnd if you're not reading some, you should be, so that we can know that reading the docs can succeed.19:09
paulproteus(What did do?)19:09
* paulproteus reads
paulproteusCan you pastebin the old I guess we don't have it (and honestly I don't want to rely on it)19:10
akozakpaulproteus, all it does is sudo su -c "ulimit -n 4096; su $LOGNAME -;"19:11
CC_HudsonProject cc.i18n build (37): SUCCESS in 36 sec:
CC_HudsonTransifex robot: l10n: Updated Georgian (ka) translation to 2%19:11
akozakI don't know what that does19:11
paulproteusRight, ulimit.19:11
paulproteuser, tomato break, brb19:11
akozakpaulproteus, so assuming I don't need to set that or JAVA_HOME I'll try adding the feed/curator19:13
paroneayeapaulproteus: what's a tomato break, since you've said that several times?19:15
paroneayeapaulproteus: oh neat19:18
paroneayeasounds like a neat task management system that can also prevent RSI's19:19
akozakI imagine it's most effective when everyone takes a break at the same time :P19:19
paroneayeaakozak: yes it could make for a noisy office maybe :)19:19
paulproteusakozak: Okay, I adjusted the system config so that is formally unneeded.19:22
paulproteusakozak: BTW, "dump" works too (as I just showed in the screen)19:22
nyerglerpaulproteus: can you make sure that adjustment is documented in the wiki?19:22
nyergleroh, just saw your email, too; thanks (and pls add to wiki)19:23
akozakoh my19:23
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akozakI'm noticing a lot of uris19:24
nyerglerit's just the legacy namespace URI19:25
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akozaknyergler, are they still dereferenceable19:25
akozaksuppose that's easy to check19:25
nyerglerno, they're not19:25
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akozakpaulproteus, so should I run this aggregate19:27
paulproteusSure, let's rock it.19:27
paulproteusakozak: Do me a favor and sanity-check that what you're doing is as per
nyergleri'm going to get some lunch, let me know if anything blows up19:28
paulproteusnyergler: b19:28
akozakpaulproteus, yes :)19:28
akozakwith one minor change19:29
akozakactually, paulproteus if you were do do ./bin/feeds seed > seed/urls.txt and seed/ didn't exist, would it be created?19:29
akozakok noted on the page19:31
akozakpaulproteus, before I never had to do this as the discovered user19:32
akozakshould that be noted?19:32
akozakoh it is19:32
paulproteusIt's my style that this be done as the discovered user. Other ways strike me as vaguely insane and lead to permissions insanity.19:32
* paulproteus is setting up Tomcat right now19:33
akozakpaulproteus, build successful. I'm assuming there's no production index to merge this one with19:36
paulproteusI'm having trouble getting Tomcat going, sadly.19:38
paulproteusWatching you type is hilarious.19:38
akozakpaulproteus, is production_crawl supposed to just be the crawl-# directory?19:40
akozakor does production contain the directory19:40
paulproteusYou remember /usr/local/nutch/crawl/ ?19:40
paulproteusThis is supposed to be like that, but with a more reasonable path.19:40
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akozaki must admit my memory is hazy :P19:41
akozakI remember19:41
paulproteusIn that directory is where, literally, the production crawl should live.19:41
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paulproteusWhich BTW we should update with a symlink update, which is atomic, not this rename nonsense.19:42
akozakdon't laugh at me while I try to do this19:42
akozakpaulproteus, don't really follow19:42
paulproteusThe symlink thing isn't really a note for you, just me being egotistical out loud.19:42
paulproteusnyergler: I have Tomcat errors that I don't understand; /var/log/tomcat5.5/catalina.2010-08-20.log19:43
paulproteusWow, I'm not sure all that coffee today was a good idea.19:43
nyerglerpaulproteus, one second, let me look19:44
paulproteusbrb, tomato break.19:44
paroneayeanyergler: when you're done with that I have something to discuss with you19:45
akozakpaulproteus, I'm 100% sure that could have been accomplished in one step19:45
akozakinstead it took me like 1519:45
nyerglerpaulproteus: i think you need to look @  the "configure tomcat's file and webapp paths" section on
akozakpaulproteus, if you have a structure like dirX/diry/stuffinhere, and you want it to replace dirX with dirY (move everything up a level) how does one do that easily?19:47
nyerglerat least i have had to in the past19:47
paulproteusmv dirX dirX.disabled ; mv dirX.disabled/dirY dirX19:48
akozakah easy enough19:49
akozakpaulproteus, the index should be ready19:49
akozakerr, crawl19:49
paulproteusnyergler: /me reads that, thanks19:50
nyerglerpaulproteus: akozak drawing attention to the latent URLs does make me wonder if we should replace that with something resolvable19:50
nyergleri have; you can imagine some sanity for this project in putting a namespace doc @
nyergler(or even
akozakpaulproteus, is there anything else you'll need me to look at that right now? Or is double checking the wiki docs in 30-40 minutes OK?19:53
akozakwhen I got nutch running locally a few months back I remember a bunch of permissions pain19:53
akozakwith tomcat19:53
paulproteusakozak: Double-checking the wiki in 30-40min is good. nyergler, I think I need to check out and finish this over the weekend anyway.19:54
paulproteusI'll give you an update on Mon morning, and also sooner by email.19:54
nyerglergreat, thanks19:54
akozakok be back in a bit19:54
paulproteusakozak: Actually, just check them Monday.19:55
* paulproteus waves ciao for now.19:55
akozakpaulproteus, ok :)19:55
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nyerglerparoneayea, you pinged?20:02
nyergler(sorry, slipped my mind)20:02
paroneayeanyergler: yeah, so20:03
paroneayeaso I'm aware that JED3 used jinja and its translation stuff for the new strings in metadata scraper20:04
paroneayeaI was wondering if I should do the same with this pdmark stuff20:04
paroneayeamaybe not now that I think about it.20:04
paroneayeabecause there will be both zpt stuff and the stuff from the formatter20:05
nyerglerwhy yes, why no?20:05
nyergleryeah, it should at least be consistent... we're doing zpt right now for formatters, right?20:05
paroneayeano, we're not using zpt20:05
paroneayeabut we're using zope-style translations20:05
paroneayeaso I guess yeah, we should be consistent20:06
paroneayeait's mostly the substitution pattern that would change20:06
paroneayeain the future actually I'd like to write a jinja tag that's zope-style translations in jinja20:06
paroneayeabut not now because it's not necessary and time is short on this project20:06
paroneayeaokay!  question answered20:06
paroneayeathanks nyergler20:06
nyerglerokay, great :)20:07
nyerglerconcur that consistency for translators is a good thing.20:07
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CC_HudsonProject cc.license build (13): FAILURE in 1 min 40 sec:
CC_HudsonChristopher Allan Webber: norms_href and work_href both being axed20:49
nkinkadeJED3: Are you in the office by chance?20:49
JED3nkinkade: no, sorry i am not20:50
nkinkadeOkay, cool.  Thanks.20:50
CC_HudsonProject cc.engine build (15): STILL FAILING in 2 min 46 sec:
CC_Hudson* Christopher Allan Webber: Yikes, that extra form shouldn't have been there20:58
CC_Hudson* Christopher Allan Webber: This one either!20:58
CC_Hudson* Christopher Allan Webber: Removing norms url and work url fields based on bugtracker / email conversations20:58
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nyerglernkinkade, ping21:29
nkinkadenyergler: yeah.21:29
nyergleri'm looking @ ted's laptop21:29
nyerglerif I go to \\ in the explorer, i get prompted for a password21:30
nyergleris that expected?21:30
nkinkadenyergler: That's right.21:30
nkinkadeI can't remember what the password is for the user 'accounting'21:30
nkinkadebut that's the user that Ted should be using.21:30
nkinkadenyergler: ^^21:30
nkinkadeWe can always reset the password ... it's just a regular system account on that machine.21:31
nyerglernkinkade, it isn't just set through smbpasswd?21:31
nyergleri was going to ask if that was ok to reset21:31
nkinkadenyergler: Oh, you could be right.21:32
nyerglerit does seem weird that it can't find \\backup, but can find \\
nkinkadenyergler: Oh.  I know why.21:32
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nkinkadeThe machine is now named sf21:32
nyerglerthat explains it21:32
nkinkadeNot backup, since that name is reserved for the new "real" backup machine.21:32
nyerglerhis shortcut points to \\backup21:33
nyerglerwell at least we know what the problem is21:33
nkinkadeThanks for looking at that.  I spent about 15 or 20 minutes trying to walk Ted through some troubleshooting, and ultimately realized that you could figure it out in just a couple minutes whereas it was going to take an hour with me.21:33
nkinkadeThe odd thing is that he says he connected just this morning, yet that machine has been named sf for at least several weeks.21:34
nkinkadeProbably since I was last in the office.21:34
nkinkadeThat's why I didn't bother checking the URL for the link.21:34
nyerglermaybe the winbind cache just expired?21:34
CC_HudsonProject cc.engine build (16): STILL FAILING in 2 min 44 sec:
CC_Hudson* Christopher Allan Webber: Changing "your work" to "the marked work" in the (i) button21:38
CC_Hudson* Christopher Allan Webber: Added slightly-modified-from-cc0 metadata lead-in text, per diane's email21:38
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nkinkadenyergler: I'm replying the Leland from Gandi.21:44
nkinkadeHow would you feel about proposing we test out the new Baltimore data center with a low volume site like or Acawiki?21:44
nkinkadeThose aren't on servers we are intending to shut down soon, but still I think it would be nice to farm them out so that our busiest machine just run busy services.21:45
nyerglernkinkade, sounds reasonable21:45
nyerglerwould it be reasonable to ask for a couple slices, one small for rdfa/acawiki, one medium for teamspace or wiki-dot?21:45
nkinkadenyergler: I figure we could propose spinning up a single VPS and pushing a single low-volume site there for testing.21:46
CC_HudsonProject cc.license build (14): STILL FAILING in 1 min 28 sec:
CC_HudsonChristopher Allan Webber: Oh right, also gotta remove those fields from the template.render call!21:49
paroneayeamy commits sure have sounded forgetful today.21:50
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erlehmannnkinkade, do you think the embed button should be optional? friends of mine argue that others should not use their server resources, but then, CC is all about sharing.23:33
nkinkadeerlehmann: I'm just about to walk out the door.  Can you send me an email that I can get to later this weekend or early next week?23:33
nkinkadeerlehmann: CC is all about sharing.23:34
erlehmannsharing is caring!23:34
nkinkadeSo it's hard for me to believe that someone would want to place an image under a CC license then make it hard for users to attribute them properly.23:34
nkinkadeBut options are good.23:34
erlehmannmy thoughts exactly23:34
nkinkadeLet's discuss this at more length early next week.  Cool?23:34
erlehmannoptions are good, but resonable defaults are better.23:35
erlehmannok, until then23:35
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nkinkadeHave a nice weekend.23:35
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