Tuesday, 2010-05-11

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luddeA specification for a file format is written with the by-nc-sa license. Am I allowed to read this document, and after having read the document, work on a commercial project that involves creating a parser for said file format?09:28
luddeparser = software that reads the file format09:29
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erlehmannludde, why is the license so restrictive ?11:59
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paulproteusMorning, y'all.13:02
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greg-gludde: the CC license only applies to copying/performing the said work. Thus, using the knwoledge contained in the work is not restricted by the license. Otherwise, no one would every be able to "learn" anything in academia because the majority of research articles are published All Rights Reserved.13:43
greg-gludde: however, make sure there isn't an implementation clause in that document (ie: "you must pay us to implement this" or "this method is covered by patents" etc)13:43
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paulproteusMorning, nkinkade!14:17
nkinkadepaulproteus: Hi.14:18
nkinkadeBack in Philly?14:18
greg-gpaulproteus: do you have a page that lists your resources you used for your scaping the web preso?14:22
* greg-g used the base word "you" too many times in that sentence14:22
paulproteusDid you?14:23
paulproteusscrape-pycon.asheesh.org + the "cheat sheet" PDF14:23
* greg-g looks for the cheat sheet14:25
greg-ggoogle found it14:27
paulproteusThat's good of it.14:28
paulproteusNice guys over there.14:28
greg-gthanks, paulproteus, I'm sending the stuff/your notes/video to a friend14:33
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paulproteusSuper rad!14:34
rafpafgreg-g: Want to be our guinea pig? Try this out: http://wiki.creativecommons.org/DiscoverEd_Quickstart14:44
paulproteusAll it does that's permanent is drop some files in /var/lib/discovered/ plus create a MySQL database called discovered.14:45
paulproteusSo it's pretty easy to clean-up after.14:45
greg-gI assume mysql is a prereq?14:45
paulproteusYeah, and java.14:45
greg-g(might want to say that on the quick start page ;) )14:45
rafpafThe script will complain if you're missing dependencies, but perhaps you're right that we should say it up front as well14:46
greg-gah, good script14:46
* greg-g installs dependencies14:47
paroneayeankinkade: so, sanity *is* running on another port than the zope stuff, 908814:52
paroneayeahowever it must be firewalled or something14:53
paroneayeaI can't access it like http://creativecommons.org:9088/choose/ ... doesn't work14:53
greg-grafpaf: I got the "eek, tomcat took too long to start" error, and I can't load it in my browser either (still, over another 2 mintues of waiting)14:57
paulproteusgreg-g: eek, two minutes? Lame.14:57
paulproteusCan you pastebin the command line output you got?14:57
paulproteusI'll also try it here on my Debian desktop (so far we've only run it on Raffi's particular Ubuntu machine)15:02
greg-goh, I see why, java wasn't happy15:04
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greg-gie: I have openjdk installed, not the sun-jre15:06
greg-gre-running with updated JAVA_HOME15:06
paulproteusThat shouldn't necessarily be a problem.15:06
paulproteusBut good to know (even if sad to be true)15:07
greg-gwell, the JAVA_HOME was set incorrectly (to a dir that didn't exist), based on the suggestion of the script because I just blindly used that instead of thinking ;)15:07
paulproteusOh! (-:15:07
paulproteusnyergler: We're ready to talk any time starting at 8:20. The conf line is an okay idea, or us ringing your phone and chatting that way. I don't know what our agenda is, exactly.15:08
paulproteusI've found http://meetingmix.com/resources/how-to-create-a-meeting-agenda extraordinarily helpful in making agendas.15:08
greg-gman, dEd is big, good thing I'm at work doing this. Should this thing cache the downloads?15:08
paulproteusHarrumph, on my Debian machine it doesn't quite work for me.15:09
* paulproteus wonders why and fiddles.15:09
paroneayeankinkade: ping me when you've got a sec15:10
greg-grafpaf: paulproteus http://paste.mitechie.com/show/43/15:12
greg-ganother java issue... I'm looking into it15:13
nyerglergreg-g, looks like you have a JRE, not a JDK15:13
paulproteus/usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk/jre - yup, you need to point the script at a JDK, not a JRE ("development kit" vs "runtime")15:14
paulproteusBasically you lack a compiler.15:14
greg-gI see15:14
nyerglergreg-g, er, maybe you just need to set JAVA_HOME to /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk/15:14
nyergler(since the jdk includes the jre in /jre)15:14
nkinkadeparoneayea: Here.15:16
greg-ghere we go again15:16
paroneayeankinkade: hehhhhh.  So I was trying to figure out why port 9088 wasn't visible externally15:18
paroneayeahost =
* paroneayea facepalms15:19
paroneayeaanyway, http://creativecommons.org:9088/licenses/15:19
paroneayeanyergler: ^^15:19
paroneayeaif we want to test paste without the apache & varnish stuff15:19
paroneayeawe can access it directly from there15:20
nkinkadeparoneayea: If we want to test it with Apache and Varnish, could we just run it on /chooze, or something like that?15:20
nyerglerpaulproteus, rafpaf, i just emailed you a (lame) agenda for our meeting15:22
paroneayeaI could mount it under /test_engine/15:22
paroneayeaand then it would be like15:22
paroneayealet me try that15:22
rafpafnyergler: i see an email about the meeting time, no problem re that15:23
nyerglerparoneayea, nkinkade, the other thing i remembered in the shower this morning is that i thought we had talked about using mod_fcgid to run this15:23
rafpafis that what you mean?15:23
nyerglerso we don't need to worry about process mgmt15:23
nyerglerrafpaf, i tried to use meeting mix15:23
nyerglerit claims to have emailed15:23
paulproteusOh, weird!15:23
paroneayeanyergler: we could do that15:23
paulproteusI've never actually used MeetingMix.15:23
nyerglerparoneayea, i don't want to throw too many variables in, it just seems like it's a little nicer -- don't need to worry about a watchdog script, init script, etc15:24
nkinkadeI think what paulproteus refers to as the "Chinese" mod_fcgi is already installed on a5.15:24
* paulproteus grins wide.15:24
nyerglerpaulproteus, let's get this call started (see pvt message)15:24
* greg-g kinda wants you to use open.umich.edu/education resources as test resources to increase our hit count ;)15:49
nyerglergreg-g, ideally we'd use something totally bogus, but ND is nice because it's, well, small :)15:50
greg-gso, I got the tomcat taking too long to start again error (though, I don't believe it actually waited 20 seconds) but the page is there, broken.15:51
greg-gimages aren't all loading and it says "hits 1 of 1" but the page is blank under that15:52
nyergler greg-g that's actually progress15:52
greg-gheh, awesome, glad I could help then :015:52
nyerglerthat sounds like our old friend, the ResultHelper15:53
nyerglerunable to find something on the classpath15:53
greg-gwell, time to head out for a lunch meeting, back later.15:54
greg-gmight have to actually work when I get back, though ;)15:54
nyerglerthanks, greg-g!16:06
paroneayeanyergler: nkinkade: you can test ccengine sanity stuff by prepending /test_ccengine/ to the url's path like: http://creativecommons.org/test_ccengine/choose/16:33
paroneayeait's not falling over though16:34
paroneayeaI'm not sure what was making it fall over16:34
nkinkadeparoneayea: Are we still facing the 503 issue, or somehow this new URL works and the other doesn't?16:34
paroneayeatrying to figure out the 503 issue16:34
paroneayeaI'm routing ccengine sanity through varnish on the /test_ccengine/ url16:35
paroneayeanyergler: theory: could it be that if ccengine is busy trying to load an un-cached deed at the same time that you try accessing another URL16:37
paroneayeathat it gives a 503 from being busy?16:38
nyerglerparoneayea, possibly16:44
nyergleri wonder if moving it over to FCGI would help with that, let apache manage the pool of worker processes and spin up additional ones if needed16:45
paroneayeayeah it probably would16:52
paroneayeanyergler: mind if I do one more switchback to sanity running live, but by putting that figure at:16:53
paroneayea        .first_byte_timeout = 300s;16:53
paroneayeajust to diagnose things16:53
paroneayeasee if it falls over16:53
nyerglerparoneayea, i'm fine with that; i'm actually going to head into the office now16:53
nyerglergo ahead and try that, let me know what you find16:54
paroneayeawell I'm actually about to head to lunch16:54
paroneayeaso I'll try it when I get back16:54
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nyerglerparoneayea, ping me when you're back from lunch17:50
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nyerglerJED3, so is the user registration bug resolved?18:03
nyergler(nevermind, just noticed you marked it as such)18:03
JED3nyergler: :)18:03
nyerglerfor some reason I just saw the change note, didn't see the property change in my email... guess i wasn't really paying attention18:04
greg-grafpaf: see my message above about how it went, and just fyi, the whole operation takes 8 minutes on my laptop on 1meg/s wifi18:08
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mralexJED3: is it me or does the Incredible have a non-standard headphone port?18:18
JED3mralex: ?? i used standard headphones yesterday18:18
mralexah, must have been a funny angle or distortion in some pictures18:19
paulproteusgreg-g: I'm going to be at MSU at a sprint the week of Mon June 14. Will you be free Friday June 18?18:23
greg-glemme see!18:23
greg-gpaulproteus: yes!18:23
paulproteusAnd is there any chance I could crash near you Thu evening and/or get a ride to DTW Fri?18:24
greg-gboth, you can crash on my full-size futon and I can give you a ride to DTW on Fri18:25
paulproteus...and can I sit somewhere and work during the day Fri?18:26
paulproteusI don't mean to ask for the world; at some point, you're going to start saying "no", but we haven't hit it yet...18:26
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greg-gyep, there is a wifi router in the house (mine) with a convenient SSID of "open"18:26
greg-gso, tunnel any sensitive stuff ;)18:27
greg-g(like I have to tell you that)18:27
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paulproteusSuper rad. Or maybe the mich.edu library (-:18:29
greg-gindeed, many many options18:29
greg-g(btw, it is umich.edu ;-) )18:30
paulproteusumich.edu, thank you. (-:18:31
paulproteusIt looked weird to me, but I figured I'd type it and if it was wrong you'd correct it.18:32
paroneayeanyergler: back18:33
nyerglerparoneayea, ok18:33
nyergleri assume you're going to try the first_byte_timeout now?18:34
paroneayeaok, so that stopped varnish from delivering the 503s18:38
paroneayeainstead pages hang sometimes18:39
paroneayeaso presumably while rendering a deed or some such thing18:39
paroneayeathat holds up the rest of the processes18:39
nyerglerparoneayea, good to know18:39
nyerglerlet's fall back to zope momentarily18:39
paulproteusgreg-g: Now I will try to plan how I will get from East Lansing to Ann Arbor on Thursday night or Friday morning (pref Thu).18:39
johnsu01paulproteus: ooohh I heart east lansing :)18:40
nyerglerparoneayea, let's move over to fcgi, see if that gives us more "workers"18:40
paroneayeaback to zope18:40
nyerglerparoneayea, make sense?18:40
paulproteusOh johnsu01? (-: What about it?18:40
johnsu01paulproteus: I lived there for ~6 years, good food and bars and blues music18:40
paulproteusjohnsu01: Neat! I had no idea.18:40
johnsu01paulproteus: well, east lansing + lansing, but they are connected18:41
paulproteusSure (-:18:41
greg-gpaulproteus: it will just be you, not any other contractors?18:41
* greg-g should have just used names, like rafpaf :/18:42
paulproteusHe'll be with me, too!18:42
greg-gcool, he is more than welcome to stay at my place as well18:42
paulproteusHe's probably flying out Friday daytime (perhaps from DTW, or Flint) to New York.18:42
paulproteusWe're trying to see if NY and we can carpool in and out, in a story where NY drives south instead of flying out Friday.18:43
paulproteusThere's also a bus from East Lansing to Ann Arbor!18:45
paroneayeanyergler: so what's a good example of the configuration of apache of this "chinese fcgi"18:45
paroneayeais it this?18:46
nyerglerparoneayea, yes18:51
nyerglerand you'll need an fcgi wrapper for the WSGI app18:51
paroneayeaalready figured out how to do that one :)18:51
greg-gpaulproteus: gotcha, well, everyone is free to stay at my place. We actually have a queen, a full, and a full futon in our house, so plenty of sleeping area. Though the full bed and queen bed are in the bedroom so no real privacy (like that matters). (and yes, we have a huge bedroom)18:55
greg-gnyergler: ^18:55
* paulproteus grins18:55
paulproteusWe could just *not* book a hotel at all for three of us (-;18:56
paulproteusSadly it's 2h RTT (round trip time) to/from an MSU sprint.18:57
paulproteusdaily, times three days, that is!18:58
greg-gwell, lemme email the other person in the house (her name is Carrie) and see if the open invitation changes if it goes from 1.5 days to 4.5 :)18:59
paulproteusgreg-g: I really don't think that we're going to do that!19:00
greg-gyeah, figured, so I didn't bring that up in the initial email19:01
greg-gpaulproteus: you know, 2h RTT is normal for many commuters ;)19:02
paulproteusMy living room is way closer to my bedroom than that.19:02
rafpafhey greg-g, we're thinking about landing in Detroit at 5pm on Monday, June 1419:02
greg-ghowever, I find those people crazy19:02
rafpafAnd then moving westward19:02
greg-gpaulproteus: ;)19:03
rafpafWhat if we stopped in Ann Arbor and got dinner with you or summat?19:03
greg-grafpaf: sounds fun/good19:03
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greg-g(yay to get togethers!)19:11
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paulproteusThat sounds like ticket gathers.19:15
greg-gtook me a second, and a failed google search, to figure that out, paulproteus19:16
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nyerglergreg-g, we'll be arriving into DTW Monday, June 14, at 5:30 pm -- maybe we can all stop in A2 for food enroute to LAN19:38
rafpaffailed google search.19:43
greg-gnyergler: sounds perfect19:44
greg-gI'm assuming Piet knows about this event, we should see if he wants in on dinner, but I'm cool with keeping it a CC-insiders only thing ;)19:45
nyerglergreg-g, that's cool with me; ali and someone else from UM may be joining us in LAN19:47
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nyerglerparoneayea, how are things going?21:34
paroneayeanyergler: It turned out to be a bit more tough to make that wrapper than I thought :)21:34
paroneayeabut I have it made now21:34
paroneayeatrying to figure out the apache stuff now.21:34
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paroneayeanyergler: so I added a line to the apache config:22:16
paroneayeaAlias /new_ccengine /var/www/creativecommons.org/cc.engine_sanity/bin/ccengine.fcgi22:16
paroneayea.. but I am getting an error when I try to visit that, and the apache logs say:22:16
paroneayea[Tue May 11 17:15:52 2010] [warn] (104)Connection reset by peer: mod_fcgid: read data from fastcgi server error.22:16
paroneayea[Tue May 11 17:15:52 2010] [error] [client] Premature end of script headers: ccengine.fcgi22:16
paroneayeaso presumably I have done something wrong ;p22:16
* paroneayea 's apache knowledge + fastcgi knowledge both limited22:17
nkinkadeparoneayea: Is it possible that what you want is ScriptAlias?22:19
paroneayeait could be... I was copying previous code in the file22:20
paroneayeano change22:20
paroneayeaI have to go... I'll continue on this tomorrow22:22
nyerglerpaulproteus, ping22:25
nyergler(or rafpaf)22:25
rafpafhey there22:25
rafpafnyergler, what's cookin22:26
nyerglerhey rafpaf, do you know a way in bash to take a variable (say, a path name) and return it with the slashes escaped?22:26
nyerglerdoes that make sense?22:26
rafpafI can only think of sed.22:26
nyerglerwell i want it to be used in sed,22:26
nyerglerbut sed is complaining because there are slashes22:27
nyerglerie, i have:22:27
nyerglersed  -i "s/blarf/$FOO/g"22:27
nyerglerand sed complains, presumably because $FOO expands to /home/bar22:27
rafpafnyergler: You can use a different regex escape character22:27
rafpafs,blarf,$FOO will work22:27
rafpaf(need that trailing comma o' course)22:27
* nyergler has a head, which may explode22:28
nyerglerlet me try that22:28
rafpafwisdom courtesy of paulproteus22:28
rafpafsplody wisdom22:28
nyerglerrafpaf, does that mean you don't have to escape the slashes?22:28
nyergler(er, obviously?)22:28
rafpafI believe so22:28
rafpafecho "a" | sed 's,a,b,'22:29
rafpafoutputs "b"22:29
nyergleri think that actually worked22:29
nyerglerthanks, rafpaf22:29
mralexis that sed only, or perl-regex compatible?22:29
rafpafmralex: not sure22:30
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Yacohow can i contact the people manteining the CC website?22:30
nyerglerYaco, we're here :)22:30
mralexyou just did22:30
paulproteusCommas are pretty idiomatic in Debian-land.22:31
paulproteusecho yourmom | sed s,your,my,22:31
* paulproteus is heavily lag'd22:31
rafpafThat's how Debian developers deal with yourmom jokes22:31
Yaconyergler, mralex22:31
Yacothe .ar cc by sa page is not full translated in spanish: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/ar/22:32
nyerglerYaco, translations are handled by our volunteers22:32
nyerglerif you want to suggest additional, missing strings, you can do so at http://translate.creativecommons.org/22:33
nyerglerthe translations often fall behind22:33
nyerglerright now your suggestions will need to be approved by the org handling CC AR22:33
nyerglerwe're working on lifting that impediment22:33
nyergler(probably move to the new translation system in the next couple months)22:33
Yacothat will be nice nyergler22:34
nyergleryes, it will :)22:34
YacoCC AR org is pretty bad and closed22:34
nyerglerrafpaf, paulproteus, I think I have gimme-discovered updated to build everything in  `pwd`22:35
paulproteusnyergler: Super rad!22:35
nyergleryour combined bash-foo may be able to handle my other complaint quickly22:35
paulproteusI hope to continue to provide you trash code that totally works, and give you the honor of making it something you're willing to let the world see.22:35
nyerglerhow to test if the discovered db already exists22:35
paulproteusOh man, that's tougher.22:36
nyergler(i REALLY hate DROP DATABASE IF EXISTS)22:36
paulproteus<trash>if [ -d /var/lib/mysql/$dbname/ ] ; then echo exists; else echo does not ; fi</trash>22:36
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* nyergler sighs22:36
paulproteusYou'd want to query MySQL programmatically and get the results back.22:36
nyergleri'm thinking mysql -c SHOW DATABASES; | grep $DED_DB_NAME | <something to see if grep found antyhign>22:37
paulproteusif mysql -c SHOW DATABASES; | grep -q $DED_DB_NAME; then echo yes ; else echo no; fi22:37
paulproteusYour way is slower, though! Way more forking.22:38
nyergleroh well22:38
nyergleri think we can afford a few forks22:38
paulproteusAlso messier IMHO; more vulnerable to accidental shell code injection.22:38
nyergler(insert cutlery joke here)22:38
nyerglerit doesn't need to be $DED_DB_NAME, just don't want it dropping w/o asking22:38
* paulproteus nods.22:39
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YacoHi again22:52
Yacowho is the leader of CC Education?22:52
nyerglerthere isn't a dedicated education "leader" -- it's a core focus for CC22:53
Yacoi see22:53
Yacoany referent of CC in that field?22:53
nyergleri'm not sure what you mean22:54
Yacoi mean22:54
Yacosomeone in CC staff working in that field22:54
nyerglerthere are several of us involved with different education/OER projects; myself, Eric Steuer, others22:55
nyerglerpaulproteus, I assume your hardcoded db config reversion is in your with-testing branch?22:55
paulproteusIf rafpaf pushes, then every TripleStore.get() now grabs a TripleStore instance from our "QuadStore" class.22:56
paulproteusMuahaha, our quadstore class.22:56
nyerglerpaulproteus, cool, i'm going to try and finish the db detection22:57
nyerglerthen push that code,22:57
nyergleri think we'll be ready to test, update wiki, merge22:57
nyerglerthe issue with results aborting is at least related to conf file not found, so makes sense to tackle that first, i think22:57
paulproteusYeah, sounds great to me.22:57
rafpafnyergler: I have a small question about Feed.lastImport23:06
nyerglerrafpaf: shoot23:06
rafpafThere's a line of code that goes like this if (... feed.getLastImport().before( calendar.getTime() ))23:06
rafpafHow could a feed fail this test? (Are there feeds imported in the future?)23:07
paulproteusEasy. We're not crawling feeds that were last imported in the future.23:07
* paulproteus cracks himself up.23:07
nyerglerrafpaf, i don't recall what calendar is right there23:07
nyerglerassuming it's not a Class since it's not capped23:07
nyergleris it now + x period?23:07
nyerglerer, tell me where that is and i'll look myself23:08
* paulproteus looks for the line23:08
nyergler(just tell me what file it's in and i can look, too)23:08
paulproteusLine 87, calendar.add(Calendar.DATE, -1) # org.creativecommons.org.learn.aggregate.Main23:09
nyergleri don't remember why that's -123:09
nyergleroh, right23:10
nyerglerit's a day ago23:10
paulproteus*Oh*, right, okay.23:10
nyerglerso that it's making sure it's been at least 24 since import23:10
* paulproteus nods.23:10
nyergleradmittedly, my variable names could be less cunningly chosen23:11
nyerglerpaulproteus, rafpaf: btw, gimme-discovered clearly does not wait 20 second before barfing23:16
nyerglerideas about why that might be?23:16
paulproteusnyergler: OH!23:16
paulproteusThat's my netcat snippet.23:16
paulproteusBut it fails immediately, of course.23:16
nyergleryes :)23:16
paulproteus-z and -w interact poorly23:16
paulproteusBetter is to have a loop, where we retry the "nc -z localhost $port" up to N times, running "sleep 1" inside the loop.23:17
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paulproteusThe N is the number of seconds.23:17
paulproteusI/we can do that, if that's not your bag.23:17
paulproteusIn fact, I can try doing it shortly (within 5 min) and pushing.23:18
nyerglerpaulproteus, why don't you wait until i push my work23:18
nyergleri think i'm close to wrapping up my portion23:19
nyerglergreg-g, you around (and interested in testing something?)23:22
nyerglerpaulproteus, i pushed my changes23:24
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