Monday, 2010-05-10

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akila87Hello nyergler,15:44
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nyerglermorning, akila8716:04
akila87nyergler, I have check that RDF problem. It actually a valid RDF but the only problem is, we cannot add Compact URI like "dc:title" as we want.16:06
nyerglerakila87, ok16:09
akila87and I tried localization support also. Netbeans localization wizards works in OpenOffice too. But still its better to integrate .po files.16:14
nyerglerakila87, yes, if we can support PO files that'd be great -- then we can list them for translation with our other tools16:14
akila87nyergler, And the method used to show the license notification when loading is not successful.16:19
akila87Because to add the listener to the onload event first we have to call the initialize() method. It won't work until click the creative commons menu.  It should be done using Jobs I'm trying to get it done.16:19
akila87This is just to inform you what I'm doing these day.16:19
nyerglerakila87, sounds great, thanks for the update16:20
akila87nyergler, any time :)16:23
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nkinkadeparoneayea: Are you pushing the new cc.engine live today still?17:04
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paroneayeankinkade: yeah17:13
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paroneayeankinkade: in theory, it's serving on 9088 on, though I found out that the package is missing a file, so working on resolving that17:25
paroneayeankinkade, nyergler: Would we prefer to run cc.engine out of a git checkout of some tag, or17:25
paroneayeawould we prefer to have cc.engine pull an egg release17:25
paroneayeaI'm doing the latter for now, as you can see on a5:/var/www/
nyerglerparoneayea, not exactly sure what you mean, looking now17:26
nyerglerparoneayea, my instinct is that using a git clone is fine, not sure that the egg release actually gives us anything (although I guess it lets us separate deployment and development configuration?)17:28
nyergler(and am i correct that the is completely unnecessary in that directory?)17:29
nyerglerparoneayea, actually i guess having the run-time configuration versioned isn't a bad idea17:29
paroneayeanyergler: yeah, I guess the versioning of the config is the only real advantage rather than checking out a tag17:30
nyerglerparoneayea, right...17:30
paroneayeaok, easy enough to switch it over :)17:30
nyerglerwhy don't you stick with this, but make sure it always unzips eggs?17:30
nyerglerparoneayea, i suppose it also lets us version the combination of wsgi_cache + cc.engine, etc17:31
paroneayeaso that leads to a second question:17:32
paroneayeacurrently when you do a buildout inside of cc.engine it does an svn checkout of all the "resources" it needs (javascript, images and etc)17:33
paroneayeaI could package that with the egg but I don't think it's really necessary17:33
paroneayeasince theoretically that would only be used in development anyway17:33
nkinkadeI'll you and nyergler decide these things since it's all beyond what I know about.17:33
nyerglerparoneayea, makes sense17:34
paroneayeaok, cool17:34
nyergleri suppose that's another reason to version the deployment configuration independently17:34
nyerglerso that's let us remove the direct_remote_paths from deploy.ini, right?17:34
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paroneayeathose are used for url generation, not serving17:35
nyerglerparoneayea, ah17:36
nyergler(nevermind :) )17:36
nkinkadenyergler: Does the idea of making our transition to also our transition to git for i18n sound reasonable to you?17:45
nyerglernkinkade, yes, i think so17:48
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JED3nkinkade: ping18:02
nkinkadeJED3: Hi.18:02
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mick_laptopanyone know if there is a license that says basically CC: By (and if you improve on it, let me know) type of license?18:33
greg-gmick_laptop: what do you mean by "(and if you improve on it, let me know)"18:35
paroneayeamick_laptop: you mean... CC BY?18:35
mick_laptopCC BY18:35
paroneayeaI mean, if you want a license that is like CC BY, why not use CC BY18:36
nyerglermick_laptop, i don't know of any license that requires notification (which is what I think you're getting at)18:36
mick_laptopok, thanks18:36
luisvno free licenses that require notification, no18:36
luisvISTR it is not strictly non-free, but debian and others strongly dislike notification requirements? but it may also be non-free/non-OSI to require notification18:36
mick_laptopis that still considered "free" if it requires (well i'd like to make it where it would be nice)18:37
greg-gmick_laptop: as luisv said, many people would say it is not a "Free" license in that respect.18:38
mick_laptopi'm interested in creating CC content for CPR training (I found out that the American Red Cross charges quite a bit for that type of stuff). I'm going to get an instructors license (well that is my plan) and then release something under a CC license - but if there is something that is factually incorrect - i'd like to be notified18:39
mick_laptopi'd see that it gets peer review first18:39
mick_laptopbut still, it would be nice to have something like that18:39
luisvmick_laptop: you can always say 'I release under CC, so you're not technically required to notify me of changes, but it would be super-awesome if you notify me of changes'18:39
mick_laptopi want to stick in the realm of "free" as much as possible though18:39
mick_laptopi guess i'll do that18:40
mick_laptopalong w/ a huge disclaimer :)18:40
paroneayeamick_laptop: I think most people *want* to help and inform of changes and etc18:40
luisvand if you explain *why* you want notifications, that would also be awesome18:40
mick_laptopdue to the nature of the content18:40
paroneayeahuge disclaimer is sensible :)18:40
paroneayeaCPR non-warranty18:40
luisvright, what paroneayea said- most people want to help, so if you explain to them 'helping is super-important because of the nature of this information- please help me build something super-useful!' then they'll be even more inclined to do so18:41
mick_laptop"please don't practice this on your kid sister... actually get certified.... etc.18:41
mick_laptopluisv: will do, i like it18:41
mick_laptopi think this type of information is like asperin - it should be free18:42
greg-gmick_laptop: to save you some time, check out the disclaimer on these resources from a medical school. You can use them (the disclaimer) under the terms of the CC:BY license, so just attribute it to the "Open.Michigan initiative"
greg-gfull disclosure: I work with that initiative18:47
greg-gmick_laptop: also, there might be some good images/other resources available here that you can use under a CC license (it varies) that has effectively been vetted by the University of Michigan Medical School:
greg-gwelcome to the OER community :)18:48
mick_laptopcool, thanks :)18:49
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nyerglerparoneayea, how are things going?19:07
paroneayeanyergler: things run.  I tested against the local server with links and that worked19:08
paroneayeabacking up the apache and varnish configs and about to work on that19:08
JED3oh yeah today's the day eh?19:14
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nkinkadeparoneayea: One the live chooser I noticed that U.S. is my default option.19:55
nkinkadefor jurisdiction.19:55
paroneayeankinkade: well, it's not up yet :)19:55
nkinkadeSorry. :-)19:56
paroneayeaI'm still editing the conf files and stuff19:56
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paroneayealooks like everything's in order to move things over to sanity21:28
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nyerglerparoneayea, great21:29
nyerglerparoneayea, let me know if you want review of anything21:29
paroneayeanyergler: sure.  Why not review these config files before I move them over and restart varnish & apache21:29
paroneayeayou and/or nkinkade :)21:30
nyerglerparoneayea, where are they now?21:30
nyerglerif nkinkade is around and can review, that'd be great, too21:30
nkinkadeI'm here.21:30
erlehmannhai again.21:30
nkinkadeparoneayea: Where are the temporary config files?21:30
paroneayea/etc/varnish/  /var/www/
paroneayeaand backed up to the respective .old files21:31
nyerglerparoneayea, looking21:31
paroneayeathere's also a new init script at /etc/init.d/cc.engine which works21:31
nkinkadeparoneayea: Nothing looks obviously wrong to me, but it's hard for me to know since I don't know how the underlying engine works.21:34
nyerglerparoneayea, the only thing i see that i'm not certain about is that I don't see /publicdomain/ being handled int he deeds21:34
nyerglerer, in the apache configuration21:34
paroneayeaI don't think it is, it's handled by varnish21:34
paroneayeathat's how it is on staging21:34
paroneayea        if ( req.url ~ "^/(license|choose|characteristic|publicdomain)/" ) {21:35
paroneayeaset req.backend = cc_engine;21:35
paroneayea        }21:35
nyerglerparoneayea, i assumed the CC0 deeds, for example, would be handled by the wsgi_cache, as well21:35
paroneayeaI never thought about that.21:35
paroneayeafor some reason.21:35
nyerglerparoneayea, it's probably fine to send it direct -- i think that's what we do now, anyway21:35
nyerglerbut in the fullness of time, we should use the same approach for all the deeds21:36
paroneayeaI'll set up a ticket21:36
nyerglerparoneayea, i also wonder if the Alias line in the apache configuration needs to come before the rewritecond lines that rely on it21:36
paroneayeaI can put it before that.  Though it *is* working that way on staging :)21:38
nyerglerparoneayea, oh, ok :)(21:38
nyerglerok :)21:38
paroneayearegardless, looks cleaner and can't hurt21:38
nyerglerparoneayea, it was idle speculation on my part :)21:38
paroneayea1sec, gonna grab fresh tea before I throw this switch21:40
JED3nyergler: good call on POST'ing to retire users in roundup21:47
nyerglerJED3, awesome21:50
JED3nyergler: you wouldn't happen to have a micro usb cable here in the office i could use for an hour or so?21:56
nyerglerno, sorry; mralex may21:56
JED3akozak: might you have one?21:57
mralexhe already asked me :)21:58
mralexi left mine at home21:58
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paroneayeaJED3: nyergler: nkinkade & etc: it's up!22:07
nyerglerparoneayea, sweet!22:07
paroneayeatake a look to make sure all is in working order plz plz plz22:07
nyergleryup, doing so22:07
nyerglerparoneayea, where does the deed cache live? (just curious)22:09
nyergleroh, in /var/www/
paroneayeayes :)22:09
nyerglerparoneayea, did it just die?22:10
nyerglergetting a 503 on choose and publicdomain22:10
paroneayeait's working for me ?22:10
paroneayeanot working on publicdomain22:11
nkinkadeparoneayea: I'm getting a 503 too.22:11
paroneayeaok, switching back22:11
nyergleror choose22:11
nkinkadeon /choose22:11
nyerglerwell did it fall over?22:11
paroneayeanot sure yet22:11
paroneayeaI set it back to zope, looking22:11
paroneayeaServer running in PID 2519722:12
paroneayeacwebber@a5:/var/www/$ sudo /etc/init.d/cc.engine statusServer running in PID 2519722:12
paroneayealooks like it's running...22:12
nyerglerparoneayea, if it's running, shouldn't work?22:13
paroneayeait hasn't worked for some reason22:13
paroneayeamust be firewalled22:13
paroneayeaI've been using lynx22:13
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paroneayeaer, links22:13
paroneayeaoh :\22:14
paroneayeaI think I might know what killed it22:14
paroneayeaI set --pid-file and --log-file to the same file >_<22:14
paroneayeawhich is also why I couldn't kill it22:14
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paroneayeashould be back up22:16
nkinkadeparoneayea: One tiny thing is that the link in the info box for jurisdictions opens in the same window.  To me, I feel it should open in a new window, but others may have other feels on that.22:16
nyerglerparoneayea, and, it seems to be 503 again :/22:17
paroneayeait went down again22:17
nyerglernkinkade, you're probably right (by info box you mean the "i" link?)22:17
nkinkadenyergler: yeah.22:17
nyerglernkinkade, great, can you just open a ticket for that?22:18
nyerglerthat way paroneayea can focus on getting it rolled out, then sweep up minor points22:18
nkinkadeYeah.  I think it's actually in an existing ticket.22:18
nkinkadeI'll break it out though if necessary.  Let me look.22:18
paroneayeaugh.  I didn't kill the old process may have been the problem the second time.  Trying to bring it up once more...22:19
nkinkadenyergler: It's already here:
nkinkade... so I think we're good on that trivial point.22:20
nyerglernkinkade, thanks22:21
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paroneayeait is up one more time22:22
paroneayeaI think I've cleared out my stupidity this time22:22
paroneayeanope :\22:24
paroneayeathe paste logs aren't showing any relevant error22:24
nyerglerparoneayea, i suggest we try to reproduce the problem elsewhere, possibly using apache bench (ab)22:25
paroneayeaI think it's happening somewhere around the varnish layer?22:25
nyerglerparoneayea, what makes you think that?22:25
paroneayeawell, maybe foolishness, but22:26
paroneayeathe 503 error is coming from varnish22:26
paroneayeaand varnish talks directly to cc.engine22:26
paroneayeaI'm not getting errors in links22:26
nyerglerparoneayea, so when it falls over you're able to still use links to get a page?22:27
nkinkadeFrom a quick run through the basic functionality, all seems to be working as expected.22:27
paroneayeait's happening on stuff like /choose/22:27
paroneayeathat shouldn't be part of the apache config22:27
nyerglernkinkade, do i remember that we had trouble at one point with varnish connection handling? like we had to "pipe" something from zope?22:28
nyergler(i could be making that up)22:28
nkinkadenyergler: There have been some issues in the past, but we haven't seen any of them in a long time, I believe.22:29
nkinkadeSince we upgraded Varnish.22:29
paroneayeaone difference between staging and live is22:29
paroneayeaif ( == "" ) {22:29
paroneayeaI didn't add that on live22:29
nkinkadeFor example bzr wasn't working right through Varnish back a couple years ago.  That may be fixed now.22:29
paroneayeaI don't know what that's for or how I came across it22:29
nyerglerparoneayea, that's just for the vhost22:30
nkinkadeparoneayea: That's a rule to simply not cache anything on Labs.22:30
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nyerglernkinkade, is there any way to find out what varnish thinks the problem is when it 403s?22:30
nkinkadenyergler: If it emitted a 503, then likely it couldn't connect to the requested backend.22:31
nkinkadeor at least Varnish felt that it couldn't for whatever reason.22:31
nyerglerright, but we have circumstantial evidence to the contrary22:31
paroneayeaone thing I could do22:31
nkinkadeI'm not sure how much debugging info can be pulled from that.22:31
paroneayeais run cc.engine in daemon mode22:31
nyergleryou mean non-daemon mode?22:32
nkinkadeWe could inspect the Varnish log.22:32
paroneayeanon-daemon mode22:32
paroneayeaah yes, varnish log is a good idea also :)22:32
nyerglerparoneayea, great, let's try that; when it falls down again (assuming it does), we'll look at what the varnish log reports; reasonable, nkinkade?22:32
nkinkadenyergler: It's possible, but the file is massive.22:33
nkinkade8.7G at the moment, and entries flying by at a mile a minute.  I could try to pass the output through grep or pass some option to only pull certain things.22:33
nyerglerok, paroneayea, let's see if running non-detached gives us anything interesting22:34
nkinkadeLike, "only show up things from host XX"22:34
nkinkadeLet me see if there is any quick way to get what we want from the Varnish log.22:34
paroneayeatail and enough lines could give us something recent at least22:36
paroneayeait's up22:39
paroneayeahasn't fallen over yet...22:39
nyerglerparoneayea, bonk22:39
paroneayeazope back up22:39
paroneayeapaste showed nothing22:40
nyerglernkinkade, can we set up pipe or pass on a per backend basis in varnish?22:42
nkinkadenyergler: I'm not sure.  I can find out.  I suspect though that it won't be at that level.22:42
nyerglernkinkade, i guess i'm thinking it might be interesting to try and remove varnish from the equation as much as possible22:43
nyerglerby either piping or passing the request22:43
nkinkadenyergler: Is the 503 error still present?22:43
nyergleryes, still having trouble, back on the zope back end right now22:43
nyerglerparoneayea,  i assume you're just copying config files to switch between the two?22:44
nyerglernkinkade, i suppose we can just say "pipe" after setting the backend, huh?22:45
nkinkadenyergler: I don't think so.  I think that can only be done from the vcl_recv function.22:45
nyerglernkinkade, sorry, wasn't clear; i meant in the vcl_recv function, after the line that assigns req.backend22:46
nyergler(not after the backed is defined)22:46
nkinkadeOh, yeah,  In that case, for sure.22:46
nyerglerparoneayea, i think we should try to pipe the request... i honestly don't know exactly how it's different, but i do know that it's resolved issues in the past22:47
nyerglerparoneayea, i can make the change to the VCL, just want to make sure i make it in the right copy;, right?22:47
nkinkadenyergler: We might be able to add a rule like "if ( req.backend.port == "9080" ) { pipe; }22:48
nyerglernkinkade, i don't think we even need to do that22:48
nyerglerwe can just add the pipe line after the two req.backend = ccengine lines, i think22:49
paroneayeanyergler: yeah22:50
nyerglerparoneayea, ok, i'm going to make that change, can you switch over to paste after i do that?22:50
nyerglerparoneayea, great, done22:51
nyerglergo :)22:51
paroneayeait's up22:52
nyerglerparoneayea, i think it fell over again :/22:54
paroneayeaset it back22:54
nyerglerok, we can try passing the request (varnish's lowest level of interaction)22:55
nyergleractually, let's defer to tomorrow morning.22:56
nyerglernkinkade, can you look into debugging the varnish log (either today or first thing tomorrow) so we can see if it's spitting up?22:56
nkinkadenyergler: I can right now.22:56
nkinkadeI was just looking over the output.22:57
nkinkadeThe data is somewhat limited.22:57
nyerglernkinkade, thanks; maybe email chris and i with what to do, and we can take another stab tomorrow morning22:57
nyergleri think we should try "pass" instead of "pipe" first -- just to try and get it out of the way as much as possible.22:57
nkinkadeI think pipe is more useful here.22:58
nkinkadeparoneayea: nyergler: The output from varnish log is like this:22:58
nyerglernkinkade, is the only different that pipe caches, pass does not?22:59
nkinkadeBasically we get response code from the backend and any headers.22:59
nkinkadenyergler: pipe does not cachen.22:59
nyerglerso what's the difference?22:59
nkinkadepipe will pipe an entire connection right to the backend, whereas pass, I believe, goes request by requests, even on the same connection.22:59
nkinkadeparoneayea: So are we just bailing on this for today and will look at fresh in the morning?23:00
nyerglernkinkade, yes23:01
nkinkadeparoneayea: Why can we not setup this thing to run side by side with the live version, but on a different port, for example?  Maybe we could run it off a URL like /chooze23:01
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nkinkadeThat way we can debug leisurely without having to flip-flop back and forth.23:02
nyerglernkinkade, sounds like a good idea23:05
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