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| paroneayea | hello #cc! | 19:09 |
|---|---|---|
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| greg-g | quiet week, I predict | 19:30 |
| mralex | indeed | 19:30 |
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| paroneayea | //// | 19:32 |
| paroneayea | /o-o-\ - We need to keep the | 19:32 |
| paroneayea | \ = / accelerator at full capacity, | 19:32 |
| paroneayea | /|-/| \ or else we'll all perish in | 19:32 |
| paroneayea | |\| |/| | the resulting fallout! | 19:32 |
| greg-g | oh, and after I talk I miss a near-instant reply since I thought it wasn't worthwhile to wait for one :) | 19:40 |
| mralex | ;) | 19:42 |
| greg-g | but, good to know we'll probably have robots to keep ourselves entertained while we pretend we're working before Thanksgiving | 19:46 |
| mralex | unfortunately i can't pretend to work before thanksgiving | 19:46 |
| mralex | so i'll be here | 19:46 |
| mralex | :P | 19:46 |
| greg-g | mralex: taking time off this week? | 19:47 |
| * greg-g has been ignoring those types of cc-staff emails | 19:47 | |
| mralex | greg-g: thursday and friday ;) | 19:47 |
| greg-g | ah, I see now, :) | 19:48 |
| paroneayea | I am working! The majority of my robots are premanufactured. | 19:49 |
| paroneayea | robots on demand | 19:49 |
| JED3 | paroneayea: ever worked with Twisted? | 19:49 |
| paroneayea | _ _ | 19:49 |
| paroneayea | |o||o| | 19:49 |
| paroneayea | o---/ ____ \---o | 19:49 |
| paroneayea | / / [/\/\] \ \ | 19:49 |
| paroneayea | / ( ---- ) \ | 19:50 |
| paroneayea | /[|]\ \________/ /[|]\ | 19:50 |
| paroneayea | \ | / | | | | \ | / | 19:50 |
| paroneayea | /__| |__\ | 19:50 |
| paroneayea | 19:50 | |
| paroneayea | JED3: yes | 19:50 |
| paroneayea | it was pretty early on in my python programming experience though | 19:50 |
| JED3 | oh ok | 19:50 |
| paroneayea | however it influenced me enough to consider making sure that the asynchronous system I am working on now is nothing like it | 19:50 |
| JED3 | hhaha | 19:50 |
| paroneayea | Twisted: everything is confusing and I am sorry but we don't have much documentation | 19:51 |
| JED3 | yeah i have that same complaint right now | 19:51 |
| paroneayea | what are you working on? :) | 19:51 |
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| paroneayea | z3p in #miro-hackers is a twisted dev | 19:51 |
| paroneayea | so he might be able to assist | 19:52 |
| JED3 | a service that will scrape and store content at a URL and also generate a thumbnail of how the page would normally render | 19:52 |
| nnnnn | there is a work under this lincence http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/legalcode after reading there doesn't seem to be any provisions stopping me from printing a book with the authors names attached and a coppy of that licence and selling it, is there something else I'm missing | 19:53 |
| paroneayea | yikes, why use twisted for that? | 19:53 |
| JED3 | because i need to asynchronously perform those operations | 19:54 |
| paroneayea | http://docs.python.org/library/multiprocessing.html may be useful? | 19:55 |
| paroneayea | though that's >= 2.6 | 19:55 |
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| paroneayea | well | 19:55 |
| paroneayea | I am guessing what you need is callbacks and etc though | 19:55 |
| paroneayea | did I mention I am working on a pythonic implementation of the actor model that is asynchronous and doesn't suck? ;) | 19:56 |
| paroneayea | it is not ready for #cc usage though yet | 19:56 |
| JED3 | ...this is for the web citations of CC Network | 19:56 |
| JED3 | ehh yeah, I've played with that as well | 19:56 |
| paroneayea | yeah | 19:56 |
| JED3 | oh yeah? | 19:57 |
| paroneayea | well, maybe you can do something like run a separate daemon that takes events via d-bus or something | 19:57 |
| paroneayea | and that way you can handle the asynchronous stuff outside of your application but still have the ability to wake things back up | 19:57 |
| paroneayea | I have no idea what the code needs for this are though so I probably sound rediculous over here :) | 19:58 |
| paroneayea | nnnnn: legally no, morally maybe: you probably would want to distribute some of those funds back to the original authors if it proves lucrative | 19:59 |
| paroneayea | or, legally "probably not" | 19:59 |
| paroneayea | JED3: curious, can you point me to the place in the code where you're doing this? | 20:00 |
| JED3 | hmm, yeah | 20:00 |
| paroneayea | I am curious to look at it if you don't mind | 20:00 |
| nnnnn | why wouldn't i be able to i read the licence it says it's free to distribute as long as its not in a locked format, a book is scannable and coppiable easly, and has all authors name plus the licence attached to it | 20:01 |
| greg-g | nnnnn: you are correct, you can print the book and sell it and make billions of dollars off of it and not give a penny to the original author. All legal. | 20:01 |
| paroneayea | I meant, legally, probably not anything restricting you | 20:01 |
| paroneayea | not probably not able to | 20:02 |
| JED3 | paroneayea: http://code.creativecommons.org/viewgit/commoner.git/tree/src/commoner/citations/views.py?h=webcitations | 20:02 |
| JED3 | paroneayea: line 83 | 20:02 |
| JED3 | before responding I'll need to issue a request to begin the cache and tubmnailing operations | 20:03 |
| JED3 | but i do not want to block the http response there | 20:03 |
| nnnnn | paroneaya, why would I not be able to? people purchase books all the time. this work seems to be quite good as I read though it | 20:04 |
| paroneayea | nnnnn: I think we are having a miscommunication here, probably my fault | 20:05 |
| paroneayea | nnnnn: I was saying, yes you can do such a thing as long as you comply with the license and cite the authors and give any derivatives you make back | 20:05 |
| paroneayea | nnnnn: however, if you make a significant amount of money, you may wish to consider repaying the original authors, for moral reasons | 20:06 |
| paroneayea | JED3: so if you don't want to block the http response | 20:06 |
| paroneayea | one option is to actually "push" to a daemon which can actually do all that crunching | 20:07 |
| paroneayea | and then on the user side you can have the browser poll the server via javascript to ask when the actual data is finished being processed and etc | 20:07 |
| JED3 | well thats what I was planning on, at least that latter half | 20:07 |
| paroneayea | you could probably poll and check the status of the daemon via d-bus, and just have the daemon itself use the threading and Queue modules to crunch through the stuff | 20:09 |
| JED3 | for the daemon, I was imagining a twisted app that would accept a url for crunching, do some basic error checking (pape exists, robot allowed, etc) and return back a URI to where the resource will be located once its completed processing | 20:09 |
| paroneayea | why use twisted though? you don't really need callbacks | 20:10 |
| paroneayea | probably easier to use threading + the Queue module | 20:10 |
| paroneayea | you just need the daemon to be able to handle crunching multiple imports at a time, right? | 20:10 |
| JED3 | maybe you're right, I'm not really arguing for the use of Twisted, just trying to fulling explain the story | 20:10 |
| JED3 | fully* | 20:10 |
| JED3 | paroneayea: correct | 20:11 |
| paroneayea | yeah I know, I'm just trying to offer a solution that's probably easier than twisted, which loves to make things all complicated it seems :) | 20:11 |
| JED3 | haha | 20:11 |
| paroneayea | if the user is polling the server anyway via javascript | 20:11 |
| paroneayea | you could actually just have the crunching thread when it finishes update the field in the database | 20:12 |
| paroneayea | setting some boolean to true | 20:12 |
| paroneayea | saying that it finished | 20:12 |
| paroneayea | or updating whatever field | 20:12 |
| paroneayea | that way the daemon never needs to send any information back to the django http server | 20:12 |
| paroneayea | the user is polling django anyway, django might as well just poll its own database to see if things finished | 20:13 |
| JED3 | yeah, thats true | 20:14 |
| JED3 | i'd like to keep things as decoupled as possible | 20:14 |
| paroneayea | a noble goal :) | 20:14 |
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| paroneayea | w.t.f. | 20:25 |
| paroneayea | why does redland rdf stuff suck so much sometimes | 20:26 |
| paroneayea | I mean, sometimes when you have a multi-condition where clause | 20:26 |
| paroneayea | it takes 5 minutes | 20:26 |
| JED3 | paroneayea: are you using sparql? | 20:26 |
| paroneayea | yes | 20:26 |
| JED3 | may i see the query? | 20:26 |
| paroneayea | qstring = "\n".join( | 20:27 |
| paroneayea | ["PREFIX cc: <http://creativecommons.org/ns#>", | 20:27 |
| paroneayea | "SELECT ?license ?jurisdiction", | 20:27 |
| paroneayea | "WHERE {", | 20:27 |
| paroneayea | " ?license cc:jurisdiction ?jurisdiction .", | 20:27 |
| paroneayea | " ?license cc:licenseClass <%s> }" % selector.uri]) | 20:27 |
| paroneayea | it isn't just this though: | 20:27 |
| paroneayea | any time you end up doing a where clause like say: | 20:27 |
| paroneayea | ?license rdf:type cc:License . | 20:27 |
| paroneayea | ?license cc:licenseClass <http://creativecommons.org/license/> | 20:28 |
| paroneayea | not sure if that works but let's pretend for a second | 20:28 |
| paroneayea | that's a simple query, and eventually it resolves | 20:28 |
| paroneayea | but it will take 5 minutes | 20:28 |
| paroneayea | running either/or of them will be instantaneous | 20:28 |
| paroneayea | hell, running both of them, putting them in set(), then doing intersect | 20:28 |
| paroneayea | instantaneous | 20:28 |
| JED3 | and you see variances in time for the same graph? | 20:28 |
| paroneayea | it always takes a long time | 20:29 |
| paroneayea | for certain queries | 20:29 |
| paroneayea | the example I gave above though, of rdf:type and cc:licenseClass | 20:29 |
| JED3 | hmm thats odd | 20:29 |
| paroneayea | that's an example I gave nathan a while ago | 20:29 |
| paroneayea | and he was like, I have no idea why this is so slow, weird | 20:30 |
| paroneayea | I guess, I mean, I could investigate | 20:30 |
| paroneayea | but right now that doesn't seem like a time-priority | 20:30 |
| paroneayea | considering I suspect it would be an entirely complex codebase to throw myself into | 20:30 |
| JED3 | my god, redland's bug tracker is giving me a headache | 20:30 |
| JED3 | paroneayea: so the same certain queries consistently take long to execute? | 20:31 |
| JED3 | have you tried testing them as RDQL query strings? | 20:32 |
| nkinkade | mralex: Would you remind me where the template for the PCP pages is? | 20:32 |
| paroneayea | I haven't, maybe I should | 20:32 |
| paroneayea | maybe it is related to this: http://bugs.librdf.org/mantis/view.php?id=254 | 20:32 |
| paroneayea | also I like how they have the winzip icon there | 20:32 |
| paroneayea | for the attached file | 20:33 |
| mralex | nkinkade: sites/default/civicrm_templates/CRM/Contribute/Page/PCPInfo.tpl | 20:33 |
| nkinkade | Thanks, | 20:33 |
| paroneayea | as an aside, just mentioning the word "winzip" makes me nostalgic for swapping around windows 95 shareware games on floppy disks with my friends. | 20:34 |
| JED3 | paroneayea: heh | 20:34 |
| paroneayea | I'll try restructuring it as RDQL query strings, good idea | 20:35 |
| JED3 | one of your robots from last week had me thinking of Mech Warrior | 20:35 |
| paroneayea | :D | 20:35 |
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| nkinkade | JED3: Do we still use a user's registered name at PayPal for the official name on their CC.net acount? | 20:52 |
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| JED3 | nkinkade: no we do not | 20:54 |
| paroneayea | JED3: thanks for pointing me to RDQL, I actually had not really looked at it yet before now :) | 20:54 |
| paroneayea | It's a lot cleaner looking than SPARQL | 20:54 |
| nkinkade | JED3: So once a user has registered, how can they change their user's name? | 20:54 |
| JED3 | nkinkade: are you referring to their username or their actual names? | 20:55 |
| nkinkade | JED3: I'm referring to their User's name, not the name in their profile. | 20:55 |
| JED3 | the username cannot be changed | 20:56 |
| nkinkade | I know in the past we forced the name to be the one on their PayPal account. | 20:56 |
| nkinkade | JED3: Not the login name, but the First and Last of their User. | 20:56 |
| JED3 | ahh, we no longer store that information and do not allow the legacy users that have that information stored to edit it | 20:57 |
| nkinkade | JED3: Is that information exposed anywhere in the interface at all? | 20:57 |
| nkinkade | Did you see the webmaster@ email where they guy was saying that the First and Last were incorrect and wondered how to change it? | 20:58 |
| nkinkade | I can see that what he is saying is right, but didn't know what our policy on that was. | 20:58 |
| JED3 | yes, that name will appear on their profile page | 20:58 |
| nkinkade | If it exists? | 20:58 |
| nkinkade | But for new users that information will not exists and so simply won't be displayed? | 20:59 |
| JED3 | yes | 20:59 |
| JED3 | correct | 20:59 |
| JED3 | you can manually change their names in our admin interface | 20:59 |
| nkinkade | JED3: So do I just remove that information from his account altogether? | 20:59 |
| JED3 | which i'll do and reply to ChrisWhite | 20:59 |
| nkinkade | JED3: Thanks. | 20:59 |
| JED3 | yeah i'm just going to remove it | 20:59 |
| JED3 | we have since left that goal of trying to achieve some level of "assured identity" on CC Network | 21:00 |
| JED3 | fail | 21:00 |
| JED3 | that same guy also reported an OpenID bug so he's in my reply queue for the day | 21:03 |
| paroneayea | hm, still takes forever :\ | 21:05 |
| paroneayea | at this point I am better off fetching all licenses that match that licenseclass | 21:05 |
| paroneayea | then doing a list comprehension to get their jurisdictions | 21:06 |
| paroneayea | which, I guess for now, is what I will do :P | 21:06 |
| paroneayea | yup, tried that, it was instantaneous | 21:09 |
| paroneayea | so stupid. | 21:09 |
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| nnnnn | have people bought creative common books before or not really? | 21:36 |
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| akozak | mralex, If I wanted to use some tab stuff in jquery on the cclearn productions page, would the best way to do that be to create a page template that would load the core and tabs js files and ready tabs()? | 22:16 |
| akozak | or does that have to be doen in header.php? | 22:16 |
| akozak | Hmm, this might be a bigger project than I thought... | 22:18 |
| mralex | akozak: you should be able to put the necessary script tags at the top of the productions page edit box | 22:22 |
| mralex | WPMU may strip them though. | 22:23 |
| akozak | ah ok. and it it does, then a template is necessary right? | 22:23 |
| akozak | if it* | 22:23 |
| mralex | then you'll have to add to header.php yeah | 22:23 |
| akozak | ok thanks | 22:26 |
| akozak | the productions page is getting a bit unwieldy | 22:26 |
| nkinkade | JED3: Do you know anything about troubleshooting OpenID logins with CC.net? | 23:16 |
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| CaptSolo | could you tell me who developed the CC RDF schema? | 23:20 |
| * CaptSolo wondering if its author is on IRC | 23:20 | |
| JED3 | CaptSolo: http://wiki.creativecommons.org/CcREL | 23:21 |
| nkinkade | JED3: ^^^ | 23:22 |
| JED3 | nkinkade: yeah, I was going over that bug report email again | 23:22 |
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| JED3 | nkinkade: have you looked at it yet? | 23:22 |
| nkinkade | JED3: I haven't. NRY is the one who usually handles those. | 23:23 |
| nkinkade | I know nothing of the OpenID implementation for CC.net and how to troubleshoot it. | 23:23 |
| nkinkade | If you don't either, then I'll just create a ticket, assign it to NRY and reply to the person saying that the dev. is on vacation but will get to it next week. | 23:23 |
| JED3 | nkinkade: give me an hour, I'll look at it now | 23:24 |
| nkinkade | JED3: Will you reply to the guy then? | 23:24 |
| nkinkade | Just want to figure out whether I can remove it from my inbox or if I'll need to do more on it. :-) | 23:25 |
| JED3 | yeah, if i can't figure it out, i'll file the bug and send him a reply | 23:25 |
| nkinkade | Cool. Thanks. | 23:25 |
| JED3 | no prob, thanks for reminding me | 23:25 |
| JED3 | CaptSolo: do you have a question involving ccREL? | 23:26 |
| CaptSolo | JED3: i do | 23:28 |
| CaptSolo | JED3: i am exploring how lightweight ontologies/schemas such as ccREL and FOAF are developed | 23:28 |
| CaptSolo | and wanted to ask how was ccREL developed | 23:29 |
| nkinkade | Hey JED3. Weren't we going to be moving /join from support.CC.org to CC.net? | 23:29 |
| CaptSolo | JED3: who would be the best person to ask? | 23:30 |
| JED3 | nkinkade: yes, I guess now that we have OneClick we could do that very easily | 23:30 |
| nkinkade | JED3: Was that the plan, though? I forgot? | 23:31 |
| CaptSolo | there is no contact info mentioned on the ccREL wiki page or the HTML page about the RDF schema. but there is a list of names/emails on the "ccREL: The Creative Commons Rights Expression Language" paper linked to from the wiki. | 23:31 |
| JED3 | CaptSolo: Nathan Yergler is who you're looking for | 23:31 |
| CaptSolo | thanks, will email him | 23:32 |
| CaptSolo | is he on IRC as well? | 23:32 |
| nkinkade | CaptSolo: Usually, but he's on vacation right now. | 23:32 |
| JED3 | CaptSolo: normally in here as nathany | 23:32 |
| CaptSolo | nkinkade: ow, then it might not be that easy to reach him on email either. but i will try. | 23:33 |
| CaptSolo | thanks! :) | 23:33 |
| nkinkade | CaptSolo: You might want to email the cc-devel mail list. | 23:33 |
| nkinkade | http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel | 23:33 |
| JED3 | nkinkade: I believe that *was* the plan, and I would say it should still be if its not, but I don't know definitively either | 23:33 |
| nkinkade | Nathan is on that list, along with a number of us. | 23:33 |
| nkinkade | JED3: We can wait till NRY gets back to move forward on that. | 23:34 |
| JED3 | agreed | 23:34 |
| nkinkade | mralex: Can you think of any reason that the links on /join point to the normal donation receipt instead of the CC Network receipts. I'm nearly 100% sure it's an error, but just wanted to ask you before I changed it. | 23:36 |
| mralex | nkinkade: sounds like an error | 23:37 |
| nkinkade | Fixing now. | 23:37 |
| nkinkade | I don't know how that one got past us. | 23:37 |
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