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| jibot | pyrak is Parker Phinney and madebyparker.com and a sophomore at Dartmouth and a former CC tech intern | 01:01 |
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| jibot | tim_hwang is the awesome duder behind ROFLCon and is working to define the rules of the electronic internets. Will likely host Robot Whores if/when a pilot is made. | 01:08 |
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| jibot | JoiIto is blogging at http://joi.ito.com/ and the CEO of Creative Commons | 06:30 |
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| jibot | pyrak is Parker Phinney and madebyparker.com and a sophomore at Dartmouth and a former CC tech intern | 06:42 |
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| jibot | JoiIto is blogging at http://joi.ito.com/ and the CEO of Creative Commons | 12:01 |
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| jibot | mlinksva is from Creative Commons and Mike Linksvayer | 14:26 |
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| jibot | jgay is http://www.gnu.org/people/speakers.html#Gay | 15:50 |
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| jibot | akozak is Alex Kozak, Program Assistant at ccLearn and SFC@Berkeley co-founder and a norse god | 16:37 |
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| jibot | tim_hwang is the awesome duder behind ROFLCon and is working to define the rules of the electronic internets. Will likely host Robot Whores if/when a pilot is made. | 17:17 |
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| EvanCarroll | would using a work in a commercial be consider a "commercial" use, or is commercial use just in reference to reselling and direct profiting from the work? | 17:21 |
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| EvanCarroll | "primarily intended for or directed toward commercial advantage" | 17:23 |
| EvanCarroll | this is so vague. | 17:23 |
| akozak | EvanCarroll: CC recently put put a study on the topic. http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Defining_Noncommercial | 17:24 |
| EvanCarroll | yea, i'm reading that | 17:28 |
| EvanCarroll | this is ridiciolus. | 17:28 |
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| EvanCarroll | 225 pages to figure out if NC permits use in an advertisement by a for-profit company that has no intention of reselling the work or profiting directly from it | 17:32 |
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| jibot | JoiIto is blogging at http://joi.ito.com/ and the CEO of Creative Commons | 17:34 |
| nkinkade | EvanCarroll: Not precisely ridiculous, but just a testament to the fact that there are no easy answers. | 17:35 |
| nkinkade | People like black and white, but it just doesn't and cannot exist in this case. | 17:35 |
| akozak | EvanCarroll: I know this might not be a very satisfying suggestion. but if you have one particular work in mind one possibility would be to contact the owner of the work and ask them what they consider commercial or non-commercial use to be, or to ask them for permission to use it commercially. | 17:38 |
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| akozak | EvanCarroll: Or you could find similar works without the NC term. | 17:38 |
| EvanCarroll | akozak: let me rephriase, if the consumers of the work aren't sure if they're going to get sued or if they're violating the law, it is a partial failure, it is a total failure. | 17:40 |
| EvanCarroll | NC is either providing a solutiotn, or creating a massive problem. | 17:40 |
| EvanCarroll | it isn't a partial* | 17:40 |
| EvanCarroll | my situation is this, my company is comming out with another product where by we sell a video-camera with mic in so car dealerships can record videos of this vehicles for use in advertisments, and to place on youtube. | 17:41 |
| EvanCarroll | we're going to record an audio advertisment for them, and put background music up for it. | 17:42 |
| EvanCarroll | We're trying to find out if -NC can work with us. | 17:42 |
| EvanCarroll | we're not selling their music, we're just giving away some prerecorded audio as part of our services. | 17:42 |
| EvanCarroll | granted, we're making money, and their audio could be construed as helping | 17:43 |
| akozak | EvanCarroll: Aside from if NC allows that, do you have a compelling reason to use NC work? There is probably a lot of non-NC Creative Commons licensed music out there. | 17:44 |
| EvanCarroll | the pool of +NC work is *much* larger, and I don't see a way to sort by -NC ccmixter.org | 17:49 |
| EvanCarroll | so if NC allows it is very much the question | 17:50 |
| akozak | EvanCarroll: it's important to remember that when a work has an NC term, that represents the wishes of the copyright holder. So while we do everything we can to clarify the term, e.g. putting out that rather large and comprehensive study, there is necessarily some ambiguity in the wishes of the rights holder. | 17:52 |
| akozak | And commercial or non-commercial has never been an easy term to define throughout the history of legal analysis. | 17:52 |
| akozak | Have you tried using cc search? | 17:53 |
| EvanCarroll | ? | 17:53 |
| EvanCarroll | nope | 17:53 |
| akozak | http://search.creativecommons.org/ | 17:53 |
| akozak | Try searching Jamendo and SpinXpress | 17:54 |
| EvanCarroll | I'm looking for music | 17:55 |
| EvanCarroll | ah | 17:55 |
| EvanCarroll | i see | 17:55 |
| EvanCarroll | http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/7168 | 17:56 |
| EvanCarroll | took me there | 17:56 |
| EvanCarroll | ekk | 17:56 |
| akozak | EvanCarroll: Also check out http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Content_Directories | 17:56 |
| EvanCarroll | wait | 17:56 |
| EvanCarroll | it says that is CC, but the record has a license this record button | 17:56 |
| akozak | EvanCarroll: We aren't a part of Jamendo so I can't advise on that. | 17:57 |
| EvanCarroll | ekk | 17:58 |
| EvanCarroll | so this is CC music, or just the page content is CC | 17:58 |
| EvanCarroll | this looks like a sham, if licensing this is going to cost me but is permitted within the license | 17:58 |
| akozak | EvanCarroll: If you have any questions about Jamendo I'd recommend you contact them. | 17:59 |
| EvanCarroll | why are they on search.creativecommons.org if their music isn't CC, lol | 17:59 |
| EvanCarroll | I will certainly never use another creative commons license in my life. | 18:02 |
| EvanCarroll | this has been the most negatively enlightening license experience ever. | 18:02 |
| EvanCarroll | no one has an idea how any of these made-for-idiots licenses work, everyone -- including the people linked to on creativecommons -- are trying to abuse and misguide the users of them, there is no even halfway decent search engine. | 18:03 |
| EvanCarroll | it is really laughable for everything excluding the concept of a point-and-click licsense builder which is such a good idea I doubt it is new to CC. | 18:03 |
| paroneayea | I think it's pretty simple... if you're using the music in an ad (which is commercial), and you don't want to pay for it, | 18:04 |
| paroneayea | don't use -NC | 18:04 |
| paroneayea | pretty simple! | 18:04 |
| EvanCarroll | right, so simple that you need a 250 page report to summarize a few opinion polls done a year ago. | 18:07 |
| paroneayea | creative commons is trying to solve a problem domain of liensing that many people want and need. | 18:07 |
| paroneayea | if that doesn't apply to you | 18:07 |
| paroneayea | don't use it | 18:07 |
| paroneayea | meanwhile, if you do want to use it, there is -nc stuff that you could contact authors about, and some stuff that isn't even -nc where you don't even have to (granted, if it's a sharealike license, you are also obliged to release yours under the same license) | 18:09 |
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| akozak | very cool: http://ignorethecode.net/blog/2009/10/13/10_gui/ | 18:51 |
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| paroneayea | nathany: ping | 20:14 |
| nathany | paroneayea: pong | 20:14 |
| paroneayea | so, in the old engine/licenses/standard.py | 20:16 |
| paroneayea | there's the "conditions" method of LicenseDeed | 20:16 |
| paroneayea | and it says that this predicate mapping should "really be a part of cc.license" | 20:16 |
| paroneayea | so, how do you envision that working now? Or does it already work? | 20:16 |
| nathany | paroneayea: i suspect it'll already work or be close to it... | 20:17 |
| nathany | basically right now standard.py needs to know which predicates (URIs) are part of each license | 20:17 |
| nathany | and right now that's duplicated in the RDF and in standard.py | 20:17 |
| nathany | so i think my thought was we should get those predicates from cc.license directly (since they're in the RDF) | 20:18 |
| nathany | the one wrinkle may be that we split up the predicates between "you are free" and "with the following restrictions" | 20:19 |
| nathany | not sure where that distinction/filtering comes into play | 20:19 |
| akozak | DAMNIT someone stole my million dollar idea: http://thewikireader.com/ | 20:21 |
| paroneayea | nathany: ok, cool... thanks :) | 20:22 |
| paroneayea | akozak: oh neat, that's what the openmoko team is working on then? | 20:22 |
| akozak | looks like it... | 20:23 |
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| akozak | I really want to compete with them with my git-based wikipedia sync system. | 20:24 |
| akozak | (theoretical) | 20:24 |
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| paroneayea | I wonder how useful it'll be as a general purpose, free software friendly e-reader | 20:27 |
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| akozak | I hope their next iteration adds the ability to edit. | 20:29 |
| akozak | or maybe I don't, so that I can beat them to it | 20:29 |
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| paroneayea | looks like it has an onscreen keyboard | 20:35 |
| paroneayea | and it looks updatable via microsd | 20:35 |
| akozak | damn! | 20:35 |
| akozak | mokoooooo! | 20:35 |
| paroneayea | since it's openmoko, inc, I assume that it'll be a hackable device | 20:36 |
| paroneayea | wow, only $99 | 20:36 |
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| jibot | pyrak is Parker Phinney and madebyparker.com and a sophomore at Dartmouth and a former CC tech intern | 21:09 |
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| jibot | jgay is http://www.gnu.org/people/speakers.html#Gay | 22:18 |
| paroneayea | nathany: okay, so I'm looking at the way that you figure out the titles / descriptions of each condition | 22:28 |
| paroneayea | and so, I've figured out how to do it | 22:28 |
| paroneayea | via getting the msgctxt | 22:29 |
| paroneayea | but maybe we should add some "generic" way of pulling that from cc.license? | 22:29 |
| nathany | paroneayea: you mean you construct the translation key and just use that to pull from the PO files? | 22:30 |
| paroneayea | yeah | 22:30 |
| nathany | (just want to make sure I understand what you're doing ATM) | 22:30 |
| paroneayea | maybe there should be a generic function for querying/retrieving that? | 22:31 |
| nathany | i agree that it'd be good to get that from cc.license. Can we just add it to a list of "things we need to make better" and keep moving forward? I'd like to get a basically working version that has tests, uses repoze.bfg, etc and then iterate on that | 22:31 |
| nathany | right | 22:31 |
| paroneayea | yeah | 22:31 |
| paroneayea | ok :) | 22:31 |
| nathany | thanks | 22:33 |
| paroneayea | nathany: also, I am trying to figure out the "proper" way to map say, | 22:36 |
| paroneayea | >>> by_rdf.requires | 22:36 |
| paroneayea | ('http://creativecommons.org/ns#Attribution', 'http://creativecommons.org/ns#Notice') | 22:36 |
| paroneayea | map 'http://creativecommons.org/ns#Attribution' to 'by' | 22:36 |
| paroneayea | I think I can just take the fragment there and use that as the msgid for translation, but | 22:37 |
| paroneayea | the old way generated the keys by splitting the code of the license | 22:38 |
| paroneayea | like 'by-sa-nd'.split('-') | 22:38 |
| paroneayea | and then used each of those to generate the msgctxt, like 'char.by_title' | 22:38 |
| paroneayea | I'm wondering if there's any clear mapping between 'http://creativecommons.org/ns#Attribution' -> 'by' | 22:39 |
| paroneayea | somewhere | 22:39 |
| paroneayea | it doesn't appear that there is | 22:42 |
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| paroneayea | :x | 22:50 |
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| jibot | pyrak is Parker Phinney and madebyparker.com and a sophomore at Dartmouth and a former CC tech intern | 23:19 |
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| jibot | tim_hwang is the awesome duder behind ROFLCon and is working to define the rules of the electronic internets. Will likely host Robot Whores if/when a pilot is made. | 23:38 |
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