| JED3 | paroneayea: http://dpaste.com/103058/ I guess this why you should remember to always dry-run on a git clean | 00:11 |
|---|---|---|
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| jibot | akozak is Alex Kozak, Program Assistant at ccLearn and SFC@Berkeley co-founder and a norse god | 00:32 |
| akozak | mralex or nkinkade: i think something's wrong with the font size in the campaign widget on blog pages | 00:33 |
| akozak | http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/18166 | 00:33 |
| mralex | looks fine to me | 00:38 |
| mralex | come show me, or send a screenshot | 00:38 |
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| akozak | mralex: sent | 01:08 |
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| akozak | doh | 01:08 |
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| jibot | pyrak is Parker Phinney and madebyparker.com and a sophomore at Dartmouth and a former CC tech intern | 01:38 |
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| jibot | pyrak is Parker Phinney and madebyparker.com and a sophomore at Dartmouth and a former CC tech intern | 04:07 |
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| jibot | pyrak is Parker Phinney and madebyparker.com and a sophomore at Dartmouth and a former CC tech intern | 06:18 |
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| jibot | thomg is Thom Hastings and thomhastings.com and awesome! | 06:57 |
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| jibot | pyrak is Parker Phinney and madebyparker.com and a sophomore at Dartmouth and a former CC tech intern | 07:14 |
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| jibot | paulproteus is Asheesh Laroia & TWiki: asheesh.org & blogs.jhu.edu! & aka Johnny Pancakes & wiki.jhu.edu! & quotes blog: blogs.jhu.edu/~gooftroop & kindablog: blogs.jhu.edu/~paulproteus & back from uganda - blog at http://uganda.laroia.net/ & hash-joiito@asheesh.org & DanMark approved for humor & graduated from jhu.edu in '07 & on Creative Commons tech staff & seeing robots where there are none & a crayon & a dirty lurker | 09:13 |
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| jibot | sbp is Sean B. Palmer, http://inamidst.com/sbp/ & extremely cautious & shy & AKA Sean B. Palmer & can be found at http://purl.org/net/sbp/ & won't say where he lives & STEWED BEEF PANCAKES & SPINY BOWEL PARTICLES & a def changing bastard | 13:22 |
| sbp | a certain amount of this is correct | 13:22 |
| sbp | anyway, hey. I've just downloaded ccPublisher | 13:23 |
| sbp | it looks like there isn't any command line interface to it though | 13:23 |
| sbp | I just thought I'd ask in here whether anybody knows if it can be adapted to do that, before I download all the dependencies and start hacking on it myself | 13:23 |
| sbp | or, more widely, if there are any simpler automated systems for Internet Archive upload that people know of? | 13:23 |
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| jibot | jgay is http://www.gnu.org/people/speakers.html#Gay | 13:37 |
| * sbp finds http://code.creativecommons.org/svnroot/ccpublisher1/tags/ccp8_1_0/pyarchive/pyarchive/submission.py | 13:40 | |
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| paroneayea | augh rebased on top of the wrong branch | 15:05 |
| paroneayea | such a pain | 15:05 |
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| paroneayea | nathany: metal:use-macro="context/@@engine/page" | 16:00 |
| paroneayea | what's "@@engine" in zope context? | 16:00 |
| paroneayea | I'm not familiar with the @@ syntax | 16:00 |
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| paroneayea | hum | 16:10 |
| paroneayea | oic | 16:14 |
| paroneayea | well, figured it out well enough for now :) | 16:20 |
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| nathany | paroneayea: it controls traversal; the exact impact is escaping me at the moment, but iirc it tells zope that you want to stop traversing and get a particular view for the object | 16:37 |
| paroneayea | ah, interesting | 16:41 |
| paroneayea | yeah, I'm looking at that and | 16:41 |
| paroneayea | context/++resource++cc/cc5/style.css | 16:41 |
| paroneayea | which is clearly a mapping of urls | 16:41 |
| paroneayea | trying to figure out how it's done presently so I can figure out the best route for reproducing it | 16:42 |
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| nathany | paroneayea: the latter is a resource call -- there's a resource registration in configure.zcml with the name of "cc" | 16:46 |
| nathany | so we'll just need to do whatever repoze.bfg does for static resources | 16:48 |
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| jibot | akozak is Alex Kozak, Program Assistant at ccLearn and SFC@Berkeley co-founder and a norse god | 16:48 |
| nathany | and maybe use a buildout recipe for pulling in stuff from svn | 16:48 |
| nathany | (iirc there's an svn checkout recipe) | 16:48 |
| paroneayea | nathany: ah hm, okay.. | 16:48 |
| nathany | if you're looking to replicate the former, that should just be ZPT macros/templates | 16:49 |
| nathany | paroneayea: see http://docs.repoze.org/bfg/current/narr/templates.html#using-zpt-macros-in-repoze-bfg for details | 16:49 |
| nathany | my thought at the moment is that neither of these should be major blockers; we don't have to have it perfect on the first pass | 16:50 |
| paroneayea | yeah I've got the former working now | 16:51 |
| paroneayea | which actually leads to a question | 16:52 |
| paroneayea | are we going to use zope's zpt, since we figured out how to get i18n working properly with that | 16:52 |
| paroneayea | or use chameleon? | 16:52 |
| paroneayea | and port the templates in whatever way ends up being required? | 16:52 |
| paroneayea | currently I'm using zpt | 16:52 |
| paroneayea | er, zope's zpt | 16:53 |
| nathany | i don't have a strong feeling either way | 16:53 |
| paroneayea | ok, I'll continue using zope's zpt for the time being at least | 16:53 |
| nkinkade | nathany: Are we going to start rewriting PCP URLs? | 16:55 |
| nkinkade | Where are those URLs published anyway? | 16:55 |
| nathany | nkinkade: heh, i just emailed you about that | 16:56 |
| nkinkade | How long ago? | 16:56 |
| nathany | i'm not sure... i'll send a follow up to melissa, you and ML | 16:56 |
| nathany | 30 seconds | 16:56 |
| nathany | it wasn't at all informative | 16:56 |
| nathany | just asked the same question :) | 16:56 |
| nkinkade | :-) | 16:57 |
| nkinkade | Nobody replied to your email from a day ago where you suggested /pcp/$id | 16:57 |
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| nathany | :) | 16:58 |
| nathany | i'll start a new thread, because i also don't know where the links are going... | 16:58 |
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| nathany | nkinkade: i lied, just replied to that thread since it seemed to be getting attention now | 17:04 |
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| jibot | pyrak is Parker Phinney and madebyparker.com and a sophomore at Dartmouth and a former CC tech intern | 17:22 |
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| akozak | nathany: I'm not sure I understand how xhtml:license works. How come xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/" is enough to define rel="license", and you don't need to do something like xmlns="xhtml:http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/" | 17:36 |
| akozak | err | 17:36 |
| nathany | because saying xmlns="..." defines the default namespace | 17:36 |
| nathany | for unprefixed elements | 17:36 |
| nathany | if you read the RDFa primer/spec, you'll see that the XHTML namespace (particularly a set of common rel="" elements in it) have special treatment | 17:37 |
| akozak | hmm I might have confused myself... | 17:37 |
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| akozak | ah ok, that's confusing when we (I) say we recommend xhtml:license for the license URL | 17:38 |
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| mralex1 | irc from adium... bizarre | 17:44 |
| JED3 | mralex1: try out laconi.ca or twitter in adium | 17:44 |
| nkinkade | I do IRC from Pidgin. | 17:44 |
| mralex1 | JED3: i have ccteam set up in adium, it's a trip | 17:45 |
| JED3 | which is also very awkward | 17:45 |
| nkinkade | I used xchat for a while, but I just couldn't justify running a whole other app just for IRC. | 17:45 |
| JED3 | ha yeah, i'm not a fan, waiitng on an invite for Nambu | 17:45 |
| nkinkade | IRC support in Pidgin isn't as full featured as xchat, but it's good enough. | 17:45 |
| JED3 | nkinkade: do you idle in multiple rooms/servers? | 17:45 |
| nkinkade | JED3: Only in #cc and #civicrm | 17:46 |
| JED3 | oh ok | 17:46 |
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| JED3 | mralex: how do you manage your mail? | 17:48 |
| mralex | JED3: gmail web interface | 17:48 |
| JED3 | single instance? or multiple accounts? | 17:48 |
| mralex | JED3: i have a personal gapps account, so i have both logged in on firefox | 17:49 |
| JED3 | oh okay | 17:49 |
| JED3 | same here, looking for alternatives | 17:49 |
| nkinkade | mralex: What Adium settings did you use to get ccteam in there? | 17:49 |
| mralex | JED3: i've considered setting up Fluid or Prism instances to run them | 17:49 |
| JED3 | ha, i've toyed with it, its less that desirable imo | 17:50 |
| nkinkade | mralex: Nevermind. I found the doc at status.net | 17:51 |
| JED3 | nkinkade: add a laconi.ca account and on the options tab add "ccteam.status.net" as the hostname | 17:51 |
| mralex | nkinkade: had to download the 1.4 beta | 17:51 |
| JED3 | mralex: were you able to get a public timeline of the group to appear though? | 17:51 |
| mralex | JED3: yeah; public timeline showed up on my user list | 17:51 |
| mralex | under a Twitter group | 17:52 |
| JED3 | hmm, are you following everyone on ccteam? | 17:52 |
| JED3 | the timeline for me is only of the CC'ers that I am "subscribed" to | 17:52 |
| mralex | not sure, i have my account set to auto-follow so i think i'm picking up most people now | 17:53 |
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| mralex | JED3: it is kind of a bugger you can't select global timeline in the options, most twitter apps let you do that | 17:54 |
| JED3 | yeah, but i haven't been able to get that in any of the apps i've tried | 17:55 |
| nathany | JED3: mralex: yeah, i think a feature request i'm going to put in is a setting for "everyone follows everyone" to default to that sort of behavior | 18:01 |
| nathany | (on status.net) | 18:01 |
| JED3 | that would be nice, do they subdomain out for every group on status.net? | 18:02 |
| akozak | there's a pidgin plugin that says it supports identi.ca, but there doesn't seem to be a way to tell it to use ccteam... | 18:05 |
| nkinkade | mralex: dollar amounts are still showing up on PCPs. Didn't you remove that recently? | 18:07 |
| mralex | nkinkade: i haven't pushed that to production. PCP stuff is my task today. | 18:08 |
| nkinkade | Cool. | 18:08 |
| nkinkade | Just making sure it wasn't blocking on something I needed to do. | 18:08 |
| mralex | i'll look into getting the oneclick popup working there too, unless it turns into a huge nightmareish hassle. | 18:09 |
| mralex | but htat's frontend, i don't think it'll block you at all for anything you have to do | 18:10 |
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| AVRS | Hello. I need help with getting info from a forum discussion in Spanish (I do not understand Spanish). | 18:47 |
| AVRS | This album: http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/5089 was tagged with CC BY in 2008. | 18:47 |
| AVRS | Now it is, as you can see, under CC BY-NC. | 18:48 |
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| jibot | jgay is http://www.gnu.org/people/speakers.html#Gay | 18:48 |
| AVRS | Here is the discussion: http://www.jamendo.com/es/forums/discussion/907/albumes-que-puedes-usar-para-propositos-comerciales/ | 18:48 |
| AVRS | http://www.jamendo.com/es/forums/discussion/907/albumes-que-puedes-usar-para-propositos-comerciales/#Item_21 and the following messages - what are they about? | 18:49 |
| AVRS | Did she think it was illegal to sell CC BY music in Mexico? Did she intend it to be so, or was it a bad side effect? Did she had too little rights to make the whole album CC BY, together with lyrics et al? | 18:50 |
| AVRS | Or is it (the CC BY-tagged copy I have) completely free? | 18:51 |
| AVRS | *Did she have | 18:52 |
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| paroneayea | nathany: http://dpaste.com/103546/ | 19:59 |
| paroneayea | doesn't this seem a bit surprising? | 19:59 |
| paroneayea | I'm trying to figure out why it isn't working with that. I wonder if it's because repoze implements its own zcml parser thingy. | 20:00 |
| nathany | paroneayea: is your configure.zcml in git (or can you dpaste it?) | 20:00 |
| nathany | paroneayea: it's probably because you haven't declared the namespace | 20:00 |
| nathany | er | 20:00 |
| nathany | or rather because you haven't told ZCML about the directives | 20:00 |
| paroneayea | here's the weird thign... that's not my zcml file | 20:00 |
| paroneayea | that's a dependency | 20:00 |
| paroneayea | a pretty common one | 20:00 |
| paroneayea | I'll check in what I have, but it's dying on zope.publisher's configure.zcml | 20:00 |
| nathany | oh, let me look again | 20:01 |
| paroneayea | I wonder if this is another issue with repoze.zcml reinventing components | 20:01 |
| paroneayea | I think it has its own zcml implementation | 20:01 |
| nathany | no, it's probably because zope.interface hasn't been registered | 20:01 |
| paroneayea | oh | 20:01 |
| paroneayea | huh | 20:01 |
| nathany | zope.publisher is pretty zope-specific so it probably makes assumptions about initial registration set | 20:01 |
| paroneayea | ah | 20:01 |
| nathany | (in zope, interface is a core directive) | 20:02 |
| paroneayea | gotcha | 20:02 |
| nathany | do you have a <require> for zope.app.publisher? | 20:02 |
| nathany | just trying to figure out the dependency chain | 20:02 |
| paroneayea | nope, I have a <include package="zope.app.publisher" /> | 20:02 |
| nathany | er, include, sorry | 20:02 |
| nathany | yeah | 20:02 |
| nathany | are we including that for zpt support? | 20:03 |
| paroneayea | because of the resourceDirectory thingy | 20:04 |
| paroneayea | I figured it was best to just make use of it | 20:04 |
| paroneayea | instead of reinventing it | 20:04 |
| paroneayea | that's what the current cc.engine uses | 20:04 |
| nathany | (also, note that the exception is raised by zope.configuration -- repoze.bfg reuses the same ZCML implementation as zope 3) | 20:04 |
| paroneayea | for static resources | 20:04 |
| paroneayea | aha | 20:04 |
| paroneayea | ok, good to know | 20:04 |
| nathany | paroneayea: ah | 20:04 |
| paroneayea | I know that repoze.zcml is in my eggs/ | 20:04 |
| nathany | paroneayea: those are probably repoze's ZCML directives (and their implementation) | 20:04 |
| paroneayea | ah | 20:05 |
| nathany | paroneayea: so we don't necessarily want to use resourceDirectory -- zope.app.publisher is the core of Zope 3's publication machinery | 20:05 |
| paroneayea | okay, what do you suggest then? | 20:05 |
| nathany | see http://docs.repoze.org/bfg/current/narr/views.html#serving-static-resources-using-a-view for how to write a static resource in repoze speak | 20:06 |
| nathany | note that it also talks about "goggles" (@@) and points you to the view docs (if you still care about that) | 20:06 |
| paroneayea | oh, I figured this was some kind of url resolving/reversing magic | 20:06 |
| paroneayea | not actual resource serving | 20:06 |
| paroneayea | so the resources are being served through python, instead of apache directly? | 20:07 |
| nathany | on production we serve them via apache and a rewrite rule | 20:07 |
| paroneayea | okay | 20:07 |
| paroneayea | that makes more sense :) | 20:07 |
| nathany | this makes them work for development as well | 20:07 |
| nathany | so not important enough to drag zope.app.pub into the mix | 20:07 |
| paroneayea | so, I've kind of picked up the django habits of using url reversing everywhere, so that you can mount an application anywhere | 20:08 |
| paroneayea | with this app however, that doesn't seem to matter, and we'll expect it in certain locations? | 20:08 |
| paroneayea | or is that what the goggles for, looking up locations? | 20:09 |
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| AVRS | good night | 20:25 |
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| nathany | paroneayea: generally i like apps that can be mounted anywhere; that's what the ++xyz++ stuff did in the old app | 20:33 |
| nathany | i'm not sure what the idiom is in repoze.bfg; it may be handled by middleware :) | 20:33 |
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| jibot | JoiIto is blogging at http://joi.ito.com/ and the CEO of Creative Commons | 21:26 |
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| JED3 | mecredis: ping | 21:59 |
| mecredis | JED3: ahoy hy | 21:59 |
| JED3 | hi, re: citations, do we care about non-RDF/manual metadata? i.e. other sources (HTML <meta>, HTTP Headers, Microformats, EXIF, etc)?? | 22:00 |
| mecredis | can you guess what I'm going to say | 22:01 |
| mecredis | I mean I'm not being sarcastic | 22:02 |
| mecredis | just going to say | 22:02 |
| JED3 | yup | 22:02 |
| mecredis | yes I'd love that | 22:02 |
| mecredis | but | 22:02 |
| mecredis | I think we should focus on RDFa | 22:02 |
| mecredis | because that's a pretty tight loop | 22:02 |
| mecredis | and in the future if <meta> etc becomes too difficult to deal with | 22:02 |
| mecredis | we can just push our rdfa agenda | 22:02 |
| JED3 | yeah, HTTP headers is too simple not to do IMO | 22:03 |
| mecredis | as in TITLE | 22:03 |
| JED3 | but... I ask mainly to get some insight on where we (CC org) stands on the subject from a global point of view (even acknowledging those irresponsibly using things like Microformats, barf) | 22:04 |
| akozak | heh, struggling with the same issue on DiscoverEd | 22:05 |
| mecredis | I think ML would probably say RDFa or the highway | 22:05 |
| JED3 | ha yeah, can you advocate for RDFa adoption but support the alternatives? | 22:05 |
| * mecredis ponders RDFa militancy | 22:05 | |
| mecredis | I think I just don't see any reason for you to spend time on it now | 22:06 |
| akozak | on discovered, we've been struggling with people asking us to implement other metadata formats | 22:06 |
| JED3 | roger | 22:06 |
| akozak | becuase we support one other thing besides rdfa | 22:06 |
| JED3 | akozak: that being? | 22:06 |
| akozak | oai-pmh | 22:06 |
| mecredis | did your cat jump on your keyboard? | 22:06 |
| akozak | heh | 22:07 |
| mralex | there's a cat in the office?! | 22:07 |
| akozak | JED3: I think one solution is to make it explicit that you only support non-RDFa formats as a means to bootstrap the RDFa metadata and not as a side-by-side thing | 22:07 |
| JED3 | yeah, that is an option | 22:08 |
| akozak | and maybe you could re-publish as RDFa or something | 22:08 |
| JED3 | ehh, I definitely would want to get into those muddy waters though | 22:09 |
| mecredis | I think that if we give people too much explanation | 22:09 |
| mecredis | they're going to gloss over | 22:09 |
| mecredis | and its kind of easier to just say | 22:09 |
| mecredis | this is how we do it | 22:10 |
| mecredis | its a little stubborn | 22:10 |
| mecredis | and I think building out support | 22:10 |
| mecredis | could be a great feature we work on | 22:10 |
| akozak | Is citation the same thing as the snapshot feature where you scrape the URL to the work? | 22:12 |
| mecredis | yes | 22:12 |
| mecredis | I'll sleep on it | 22:13 |
| mecredis | but for now | 22:13 |
| mecredis | I think its worth just doing RDFa for the prototype | 22:13 |
| JED3 | mecredis: not to trudge on but... | 22:14 |
| mecredis | no by all means | 22:14 |
| mecredis | I need to think through it too | 22:14 |
| akozak | fwiw I like the idea of only supporting RDFa, especially since you're mostly interested in the licensing metadata | 22:14 |
| akozak | which is supposed to include rdfa | 22:14 |
| JED3 | what about our "selling point" use cases -- i'm talking about you Flickr -- do I need to plan for our early releases to include support for API's of sites like Flickr? | 22:15 |
| mecredis | what would we need Flickr's API for? | 22:15 |
| mecredis | pulling tags? | 22:15 |
| JED3 | EXIF information | 22:15 |
| mecredis | right. | 22:16 |
| mecredis | hrm | 22:16 |
| mecredis | let's think through | 22:16 |
| mecredis | the platforms with CC content | 22:16 |
| mecredis | Flickr, blip.tv, archive.org, freesound | 22:16 |
| mecredis | maybe we need a chart of who has an API | 22:16 |
| mecredis | and if they do, what metadata we can pull from it | 22:16 |
| JED3 | yes akozak made a good point in say that that should be our **primary** concern | 22:16 |
| mecredis | RDFa, that is? | 22:17 |
| JED3 | err providing a platform for CC content | 22:17 |
| mecredis | not following | 22:17 |
| JED3 | sorry i spoke too late after "<mecredis> the platforms with CC content" | 22:18 |
| JED3 | i assumed "platforms" was sic for "platform's" := "platform is" | 22:18 |
| mecredis | ah | 22:19 |
| mecredis | ok | 22:19 |
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| akozak | I'm curious, what kind of metadata do you want to pull aside from ccREL properties? | 22:20 |
| mecredis | akozak: http://labs.creativecommons.org/~fred/citation_example.html | 22:20 |
| akozak | heh | 22:21 |
| mecredis | does that help? | 22:21 |
| akozak | yea | 22:21 |
| akozak | and i think you're a little crazy for wanting to make ccnetwork work with all those apis :) | 22:22 |
| akozak | would be cool though | 22:22 |
| mecredis | yeah, would be amazing | 22:22 |
| mecredis | I mean the mish-mash of APIs kind of argues for RDFa | 22:22 |
| akozak | exactly | 22:22 |
| JED3 | yea, its crazy, but Flickr may be worthwhile | 22:23 |
| mecredis | flickr will definiately be worth while | 22:23 |
| JED3 | and i know their API very well :) | 22:23 |
| mecredis | I'll try and think of some others | 22:23 |
| akozak | you might be getting into rough waters if you start implementing apis though... then people might start wondering why you haven't implemented theirs | 22:23 |
| nkinkade | mralex: Did you just fix the Case_Studies thing? | 22:24 |
| mecredis | brb | 22:24 |
| mecredis | have to deal with apt stuff | 22:24 |
| mralex | nkinkade: what thing? no idea | 22:24 |
| * JoiIto watches mecredis dodge a question... | 22:25 | |
| nkinkade | An email from Ahrash. | 22:25 |
| nkinkade | mralex: ^^ | 22:25 |
| akozak | JED3: it would be worth talking to nathany about this, since he's dealing with a very similar issue on DiscoverEd | 22:25 |
| akozak | (whether or not to implement non-rdfa metadata transport) | 22:25 |
| JED3 | akozak: oh without a doubt, just wanted to hear what mecredis had to say | 22:25 |
| akozak | nkinkade: I recently worked on the Case Studies page | 22:26 |
| akozak | when Michelle was in SF, a week or so ago | 22:26 |
| akozak | maybe 2 weeks | 22:26 |
| mralex | nkinkade: i will fix that.... i question why "Case_Studies/" doesn't redirect though. | 22:26 |
| JED3 | akozak: these decisions would affect the low level designs I am working on right now | 22:26 |
| akozak | mralex: what's the issue? I recently did a huge Case Studies hierarchy overhaul... | 22:27 |
| akozak | JED3: I bet :) | 22:27 |
| mralex | akozak: nothing. the link on the about page was pointing to the wrong url | 22:27 |
| akozak | mralex: oh ok nvm, got me scared I broke something | 22:28 |
| nkinkade | mralex: I'll fix that link. | 22:29 |
| nkinkade | Too late. | 22:29 |
| nkinkade | You already did it. | 22:29 |
| mecredis | hah | 22:32 |
| mecredis | JED3: so maybe we should plan on getting Flickr right | 22:32 |
| mecredis | getting RDFa in there | 22:32 |
| mecredis | a | 22:32 |
| mecredis | and then 1-2 other APIs | 22:32 |
| mecredis | that we choose carefully | 22:32 |
| mecredis | everyone else we tell to use RDFa | 22:33 |
| JED3 | cool, this chat helped | 22:36 |
| JED3 | on a completely unrelated note: does anyone know of a good, on demand, tshirt printing service? | 22:37 |
| mecredis | I've used spreadshirt to moderate success | 22:37 |
| mecredis | here's one of my stores | 22:38 |
| mecredis | http://28700.spreadshirt.com/us/US/Shop/Article/Index/article/Regular-T-Shirt-1203536 | 22:38 |
| JED3 | ha nice | 22:38 |
| JED3 | i liked spreadshirt, but no American Apparel :/ | 22:38 |
| JED3 | not a huge deal, but I would prefer AA | 22:39 |
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| jibot | pyrak is Parker Phinney and madebyparker.com and a sophomore at Dartmouth and a former CC tech intern | 23:14 |
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| jibot | JoiIto is blogging at http://joi.ito.com/ and the CEO of Creative Commons | 23:28 |
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