Tuesday, 2009-10-06

JED3paroneayea: http://dpaste.com/103058/ I guess this why you should remember to always dry-run on a git clean00:11
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jibotakozak is Alex Kozak, Program Assistant at ccLearn and SFC@Berkeley co-founder and a norse god00:32
akozakmralex or nkinkade: i think something's wrong with the font size in the campaign widget on blog pages00:33
mralexlooks fine to me00:38
mralexcome show me, or send a screenshot00:38
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akozakmralex: sent01:08
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jibotpyrak is Parker Phinney and madebyparker.com and a sophomore at Dartmouth and a former CC tech intern01:38
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jibotpyrak is Parker Phinney and madebyparker.com and a sophomore at Dartmouth and a former CC tech intern04:07
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jibotpyrak is Parker Phinney and madebyparker.com and a sophomore at Dartmouth and a former CC tech intern06:18
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jibotthomg is Thom Hastings and thomhastings.com and awesome!06:57
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jibotpyrak is Parker Phinney and madebyparker.com and a sophomore at Dartmouth and a former CC tech intern07:14
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jibotpaulproteus is Asheesh Laroia & TWiki: asheesh.org & blogs.jhu.edu! & aka Johnny Pancakes & wiki.jhu.edu! & quotes blog: blogs.jhu.edu/~gooftroop & kindablog: blogs.jhu.edu/~paulproteus & back from uganda - blog at http://uganda.laroia.net/ & hash-joiito@asheesh.org & DanMark approved for humor & graduated from jhu.edu in '07 & on Creative Commons tech staff & seeing robots where there are none & a crayon & a dirty lurker09:13
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jibotsbp is Sean B. Palmer, http://inamidst.com/sbp/ & extremely cautious & shy & AKA Sean B. Palmer & can be found at http://purl.org/net/sbp/ & won't say where he lives & STEWED BEEF PANCAKES & SPINY BOWEL PARTICLES & a def changing bastard13:22
sbpa certain amount of this is correct13:22
sbpanyway, hey. I've just downloaded ccPublisher13:23
sbpit looks like there isn't any command line interface to it though13:23
sbpI just thought I'd ask in here whether anybody knows if it can be adapted to do that, before I download all the dependencies and start hacking on it myself13:23
sbpor, more widely, if there are any simpler automated systems for Internet Archive upload that people know of?13:23
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jibotjgay is http://www.gnu.org/people/speakers.html#Gay13:37
* sbp finds http://code.creativecommons.org/svnroot/ccpublisher1/tags/ccp8_1_0/pyarchive/pyarchive/submission.py13:40
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paroneayeaaugh rebased on top of the wrong branch15:05
paroneayeasuch a pain15:05
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paroneayeanathany: metal:use-macro="context/@@engine/page"16:00
paroneayeawhat's "@@engine" in zope context?16:00
paroneayeaI'm not familiar with the @@ syntax16:00
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paroneayeawell, figured it out well enough for now :)16:20
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nathanyparoneayea: it controls traversal; the exact impact is escaping me at the moment, but iirc it tells zope that you want to stop traversing and get a particular view for the object16:37
paroneayeaah, interesting16:41
paroneayeayeah, I'm looking at that and16:41
paroneayeawhich is clearly a mapping of urls16:41
paroneayeatrying to figure out how it's done presently so I can figure out the best route for reproducing it16:42
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nathanyparoneayea: the latter is a resource call -- there's a resource registration in configure.zcml with the name of "cc"16:46
nathanyso we'll just need to do whatever repoze.bfg does for static resources16:48
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jibotakozak is Alex Kozak, Program Assistant at ccLearn and SFC@Berkeley co-founder and a norse god16:48
nathanyand maybe use a buildout recipe for pulling in stuff from svn16:48
nathany(iirc there's an svn checkout recipe)16:48
paroneayeanathany: ah hm, okay..16:48
nathanyif you're looking to replicate the former, that should just be ZPT macros/templates16:49
nathanyparoneayea: see http://docs.repoze.org/bfg/current/narr/templates.html#using-zpt-macros-in-repoze-bfg for details16:49
nathanymy thought at the moment is that neither of these should be major blockers; we don't have to have it perfect on the first pass16:50
paroneayeayeah I've got the former working now16:51
paroneayeawhich actually leads to a question16:52
paroneayeaare we going to use zope's zpt, since we figured out how to get i18n working properly with that16:52
paroneayeaor use chameleon?16:52
paroneayeaand port the templates in whatever way ends up being required?16:52
paroneayeacurrently I'm using zpt16:52
paroneayeaer, zope's zpt16:53
nathanyi don't have a strong feeling either way16:53
paroneayeaok, I'll continue using zope's zpt for the time being at least16:53
nkinkadenathany: Are we going to start rewriting PCP URLs?16:55
nkinkadeWhere are those URLs published anyway?16:55
nathanynkinkade: heh, i just emailed you about that16:56
nkinkadeHow long ago?16:56
nathanyi'm not sure... i'll send a follow up to melissa, you and ML16:56
nathany30 seconds16:56
nathanyit wasn't at all informative16:56
nathanyjust asked the same question :)16:56
nkinkadeNobody replied to your email from a day ago where you suggested /pcp/$id16:57
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nathanyi'll start a new thread, because i also don't know where the links are going...16:58
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nathanynkinkade: i lied, just replied to that thread since it seemed to be getting attention now17:04
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jibotpyrak is Parker Phinney and madebyparker.com and a sophomore at Dartmouth and a former CC tech intern17:22
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akozaknathany: I'm not sure I understand how xhtml:license works. How come xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/" is enough to define rel="license", and you don't need to do something like xmlns="xhtml:http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/"17:36
nathany because saying xmlns="..." defines the default namespace17:36
nathanyfor unprefixed elements17:36
nathanyif you read the RDFa primer/spec, you'll see that the XHTML namespace (particularly a set of common rel="" elements in it) have special treatment17:37
akozakhmm I might have confused myself...17:37
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akozakah ok, that's confusing when we (I) say we recommend xhtml:license for the license URL17:38
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mralex1irc from adium... bizarre17:44
JED3mralex1: try out laconi.ca or twitter in adium17:44
nkinkadeI do IRC from Pidgin.17:44
mralex1JED3: i have ccteam set up in adium, it's a trip17:45
JED3which is also very awkward17:45
nkinkadeI used xchat for a while, but I just couldn't justify running a whole other app just for IRC.17:45
JED3ha yeah, i'm not a fan, waiitng on an invite for Nambu17:45
nkinkadeIRC support in Pidgin isn't as full featured as xchat, but it's good enough.17:45
JED3nkinkade: do you idle in multiple rooms/servers?17:45
nkinkadeJED3: Only in #cc and #civicrm17:46
JED3oh ok17:46
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JED3mralex: how do you manage your mail?17:48
mralexJED3: gmail web interface17:48
JED3single instance? or multiple accounts?17:48
mralexJED3: i have a personal gapps account, so i have both logged in on firefox17:49
JED3oh okay17:49
JED3same here, looking for alternatives17:49
nkinkademralex: What Adium settings did you use to get ccteam in there?17:49
mralexJED3: i've considered setting up Fluid or Prism instances to run them17:49
JED3ha, i've toyed with it, its less that desirable imo17:50
nkinkademralex: Nevermind.  I found the doc at status.net17:51
JED3nkinkade: add a laconi.ca account and on the options tab add "ccteam.status.net" as the hostname17:51
mralexnkinkade: had to download the 1.4 beta17:51
JED3mralex: were you able to get a public timeline of the group to appear though?17:51
mralexJED3: yeah; public timeline showed up on my user list17:51
mralexunder a Twitter group17:52
JED3hmm, are you following everyone on ccteam?17:52
JED3the timeline for me is only of the CC'ers that I am "subscribed" to17:52
mralexnot sure, i have my account set to auto-follow so i think i'm picking up most people now17:53
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mralexJED3: it is kind of a bugger you can't select global timeline in the options, most twitter apps let you do that17:54
JED3yeah, but i haven't been able to get that in any of the apps i've tried17:55
nathanyJED3: mralex: yeah, i think a feature request i'm going to put in is a setting for "everyone follows everyone" to default to that sort of behavior18:01
nathany(on status.net)18:01
JED3that would be nice, do they subdomain out for every group on status.net?18:02
akozakthere's a pidgin plugin that says it supports identi.ca, but there doesn't seem to be a way to tell it to use ccteam...18:05
nkinkademralex: dollar amounts are still showing up on PCPs.  Didn't you remove that recently?18:07
mralexnkinkade: i haven't pushed that to production. PCP stuff is my task today.18:08
nkinkadeJust making sure it wasn't blocking on something I needed to do.18:08
mralexi'll look into getting the oneclick popup working there too, unless it turns into a huge nightmareish hassle.18:09
mralexbut htat's frontend, i don't think it'll block you at all for anything you have to do18:10
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AVRSHello. I need help with getting info from a forum discussion in Spanish (I do not understand Spanish).18:47
AVRSThis album: http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/5089  was tagged with CC BY in 2008.18:47
AVRSNow it is, as you can see, under CC BY-NC.18:48
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jibotjgay is http://www.gnu.org/people/speakers.html#Gay18:48
AVRSHere is the discussion: http://www.jamendo.com/es/forums/discussion/907/albumes-que-puedes-usar-para-propositos-comerciales/18:48
AVRShttp://www.jamendo.com/es/forums/discussion/907/albumes-que-puedes-usar-para-propositos-comerciales/#Item_21 and the following messages - what are they about?18:49
AVRSDid she think it was illegal to sell CC BY music in Mexico? Did she intend it to be so, or was it a bad side effect? Did she had too little rights to make the whole album CC BY, together with lyrics et al?18:50
AVRSOr is it (the CC BY-tagged copy I have) completely free?18:51
AVRS*Did she have18:52
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paroneayeanathany: http://dpaste.com/103546/19:59
paroneayeadoesn't this seem a bit surprising?19:59
paroneayeaI'm trying to figure out why it isn't working with that.  I wonder if it's because repoze implements its own zcml parser thingy.20:00
nathanyparoneayea: is your configure.zcml in git (or can you dpaste it?)20:00
nathanyparoneayea: it's probably because you haven't declared the namespace20:00
nathanyor rather because you haven't told ZCML about the directives20:00
paroneayeahere's the weird thign... that's not my zcml file20:00
paroneayeathat's a dependency20:00
paroneayeaa pretty common one20:00
paroneayeaI'll check in what I have, but it's dying on zope.publisher's configure.zcml20:00
nathanyoh, let me look again20:01
paroneayeaI wonder if this is another issue with repoze.zcml reinventing components20:01
paroneayeaI think it has its own zcml implementation20:01
nathanyno, it's probably because zope.interface hasn't been registered20:01
nathanyzope.publisher is pretty zope-specific so it probably makes assumptions about initial registration set20:01
nathany(in zope, interface is a core directive)20:02
nathanydo you have a <require> for zope.app.publisher?20:02
nathanyjust trying to figure out the dependency chain20:02
paroneayeanope, I have a   <include package="zope.app.publisher" />20:02
nathanyer, include, sorry20:02
nathanyare we including that for zpt support?20:03
paroneayeabecause of the resourceDirectory thingy20:04
paroneayeaI figured it was best to just make use of it20:04
paroneayeainstead of reinventing it20:04
paroneayeathat's what the current cc.engine uses20:04
nathany(also, note that the exception is raised by zope.configuration -- repoze.bfg reuses the same ZCML implementation as zope 3)20:04
paroneayeafor static resources20:04
paroneayeaok, good to know20:04
nathanyparoneayea: ah20:04
paroneayeaI know that repoze.zcml is in my eggs/20:04
nathanyparoneayea: those are probably repoze's ZCML directives (and their implementation)20:04
nathanyparoneayea: so we don't necessarily want to use resourceDirectory -- zope.app.publisher is the core of Zope 3's publication machinery20:05
paroneayeaokay, what do you suggest then?20:05
nathanysee http://docs.repoze.org/bfg/current/narr/views.html#serving-static-resources-using-a-view for how to write a static resource in repoze speak20:06
nathanynote that it also talks about "goggles" (@@) and points you to the view docs (if you still care about that)20:06
paroneayeaoh, I figured this was some kind of url resolving/reversing magic20:06
paroneayeanot actual resource serving20:06
paroneayeaso the resources are being served through python, instead of apache directly?20:07
nathanyon production we serve them via apache and a rewrite rule20:07
paroneayeathat makes more sense :)20:07
nathanythis makes them work for development as well20:07
nathanyso not important enough to drag zope.app.pub into the mix20:07
paroneayeaso, I've kind of picked up the django habits of using url reversing everywhere, so that you can mount an application anywhere20:08
paroneayeawith this app however, that doesn't seem to matter, and we'll expect it in certain locations?20:08
paroneayeaor is that what the goggles for, looking up locations?20:09
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AVRSgood night20:25
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nathanyparoneayea: generally i like apps that can be mounted anywhere; that's what the ++xyz++ stuff did in the old app20:33
nathanyi'm not sure what the idiom is in repoze.bfg; it may be handled by middleware :)20:33
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jibotJoiIto is blogging at http://joi.ito.com/ and the CEO of Creative Commons21:26
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JED3mecredis: ping21:59
mecredisJED3: ahoy hy21:59
JED3hi, re: citations, do we care about non-RDF/manual metadata? i.e. other sources (HTML <meta>, HTTP Headers, Microformats, EXIF, etc)??22:00
mecrediscan you guess what I'm going to say22:01
mecredisI mean I'm not being sarcastic22:02
mecredisjust going to say22:02
mecredisyes I'd love that22:02
mecredisI think we should focus on RDFa22:02
mecredisbecause that's a pretty tight loop22:02
mecredisand in the future if <meta> etc becomes too difficult to deal with22:02
mecrediswe can just push our rdfa agenda22:02
JED3yeah, HTTP headers is too simple not to do IMO22:03
mecredisas in TITLE22:03
JED3but... I ask mainly to get some insight on where we (CC org) stands on the subject from a global point of view (even acknowledging those irresponsibly using things like Microformats, barf)22:04
akozakheh, struggling with the same issue on DiscoverEd22:05
mecredisI think ML would probably say RDFa or the highway22:05
JED3ha yeah, can you advocate for RDFa adoption but support the alternatives?22:05
* mecredis ponders RDFa militancy22:05
mecredisI think I just don't see any reason for you to spend time on it now22:06
akozakon discovered, we've been struggling with people asking us to implement other metadata formats22:06
akozakbecuase we support one other thing besides rdfa22:06
JED3akozak: that being?22:06
mecredisdid your cat jump on your keyboard?22:06
mralexthere's a cat in the office?!22:07
akozakJED3: I think one solution is to make it explicit that you only support non-RDFa formats as a means to bootstrap the RDFa metadata and not as a side-by-side thing22:07
JED3yeah, that is an option22:08
akozakand maybe you could re-publish as RDFa or something22:08
JED3ehh, I definitely would want to get into those muddy waters though22:09
mecredisI think that if we give people too much explanation22:09
mecredisthey're going to gloss over22:09
mecredisand its kind of easier to just say22:09
mecredisthis is how we do it22:10
mecredisits a little stubborn22:10
mecredisand I think building out support22:10
mecrediscould be a great feature we work on22:10
akozakIs citation the same thing as the snapshot feature where you scrape the URL to the work?22:12
mecredisI'll sleep on it22:13
mecredisbut for now22:13
mecredisI think its worth just doing RDFa for the prototype22:13
JED3mecredis: not to trudge on but...22:14
mecredisno by all means22:14
mecredisI need to think through it too22:14
akozakfwiw I like the idea of only supporting RDFa, especially since you're mostly interested in the licensing metadata22:14
akozakwhich is supposed to include rdfa22:14
JED3what about our "selling point" use cases -- i'm talking about you Flickr -- do I need to plan for our early releases to include support for API's of sites like Flickr?22:15
mecrediswhat would we need Flickr's API for?22:15
mecredispulling tags?22:15
JED3EXIF information22:15
mecredislet's think through22:16
mecredisthe platforms with CC content22:16
mecredisFlickr, blip.tv, archive.org, freesound22:16
mecredismaybe we need a chart of who has an API22:16
mecredisand if they do, what metadata we can pull from it22:16
JED3yes akozak made a good point in say that that should be our **primary** concern22:16
mecredisRDFa, that is?22:17
JED3err providing a platform for CC content22:17
mecredisnot following22:17
JED3sorry i spoke too late after "<mecredis> the platforms with CC content"22:18
JED3i assumed "platforms" was sic for "platform's" := "platform is"22:18
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akozakI'm curious, what kind of metadata do you want to pull aside from ccREL properties?22:20
mecredisakozak: http://labs.creativecommons.org/~fred/citation_example.html22:20
mecredisdoes that help?22:21
akozakand i think you're a little crazy for wanting to make ccnetwork work with all those apis :)22:22
akozakwould be cool though22:22
mecredisyeah, would be amazing22:22
mecredisI mean the mish-mash of APIs kind of argues for RDFa22:22
JED3yea, its crazy, but Flickr may be worthwhile22:23
mecredisflickr will definiately be worth while22:23
JED3and i know their API very well :)22:23
mecredisI'll try and think of some others22:23
akozakyou might be getting into rough waters if you start implementing apis though... then people might start wondering why you haven't implemented theirs22:23
nkinkademralex: Did you just fix the Case_Studies thing?22:24
mecredishave to deal with apt stuff22:24
mralexnkinkade: what thing? no idea22:24
* JoiIto watches mecredis dodge a question...22:25
nkinkadeAn email from Ahrash.22:25
nkinkademralex: ^^22:25
akozakJED3: it would be worth talking to nathany about this, since he's dealing with a very similar issue on DiscoverEd22:25
akozak(whether or not to implement non-rdfa metadata transport)22:25
JED3akozak: oh without a doubt, just wanted to hear what mecredis had to say22:25
akozaknkinkade: I recently worked on the Case Studies page22:26
akozakwhen Michelle was in SF, a week or so ago22:26
akozakmaybe 2 weeks22:26
mralexnkinkade: i will fix that.... i question why "Case_Studies/" doesn't redirect though.22:26
JED3akozak: these decisions would affect the low level designs I am working on right now22:26
akozakmralex: what's the issue? I recently did a huge Case Studies hierarchy overhaul...22:27
akozakJED3: I bet :)22:27
mralexakozak: nothing. the link on the about page was pointing to the wrong url22:27
akozakmralex: oh ok nvm, got me scared I broke something22:28
nkinkademralex: I'll fix that link.22:29
nkinkadeToo late.22:29
nkinkadeYou already did it.22:29
mecredisJED3: so maybe we should plan on getting Flickr right22:32
mecredisgetting RDFa in there22:32
mecredisand then 1-2 other APIs22:32
mecredisthat we choose carefully22:32
mecrediseveryone else we tell to use RDFa22:33
JED3cool, this chat helped22:36
JED3on a completely unrelated note: does anyone know of a good, on demand, tshirt printing service?22:37
mecredisI've used spreadshirt to moderate success22:37
mecredishere's one of my stores22:38
JED3ha nice22:38
JED3i liked spreadshirt, but no American Apparel :/22:38
JED3not a huge deal, but I would prefer AA22:39
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jibotpyrak is Parker Phinney and madebyparker.com and a sophomore at Dartmouth and a former CC tech intern23:14
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jibotJoiIto is blogging at http://joi.ito.com/ and the CEO of Creative Commons23:28
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