Monday, 2009-09-14

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jibotpyrak is Parker Phinney and and a sophomore at Dartmouth and a former CC tech intern03:21
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jibotmlinksva is from Creative Commons and Mike Linksvayer07:05
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jibotpyrak is Parker Phinney and and a sophomore at Dartmouth and a former CC tech intern08:12
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jibotrobmyers is Rob Myers and going to talk about freedom. Ignore him.10:00
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jibotgreg-g is """developing"""" the """"community"""" for """"creative commons"""""11:52
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jibotmlinksva is from Creative Commons and Mike Linksvayer12:58
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jibotmlinksva is from Creative Commons and Mike Linksvayer13:02
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jibotpaulproteus is Asheesh Laroia & TWiki: &! & aka Johnny Pancakes &! & quotes blog: & kindablog: & back from uganda - blog at & & DanMark approved for humor & graduated from in '07 & on Creative Commons tech staff & seeing robots where there are none & a crayon13:46
greg-gre: NonCommercial Study: interesting that, generally, creators who make money from their work consider private+personal use of their work to be more of a "commercial" use.13:51
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paroneayeahow's it going greg-g14:19
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jibotmlinksva is from Creative Commons and Mike Linksvayer14:43
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greg-gparoneayea: pretty good, but it is also Monday morning after a long weekend :)14:58
greg-g"long" as in still only 2 days, but not much down time14:59
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*** nathany changes topic to "Creative Commons FAQ :: chat logs -> :: No answer? Email the lists - :: Welcome Mozilla Service Week"15:02
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jibotmecredis is Fred Benenson. He works as Creative Commons' Culture Program Associate in NYC and joined the board of SFC after starting Free Culture @ NYU & Fred Benenson. He founded Free Culture @ NYU and graduated in May of 2005. He currently lives in New York City and works as a freelance web developer and a FreeCulture activist. He may or may not be a board member of but has worked for Creative Commons and volunteered for the EFF. & Fred Benenson.15:13
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nathanyJED3: is there any reason I shouldn't blow away the database? I'd like to do some openid testing and need to bring it up to date; was going to just load the current production data there15:24
JED3nope, bombs away15:24
nathanythanks, i'll do it after i finish digging through my weekend email15:24
JED3cool, i'm heading now, be in the office in just a few15:25
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nathanypaulproteus: ping15:45
paulproteusnathany, pong15:45
nathanyquick git question for you15:45
nathanyhave you ever used the config param core.sharedRepository?15:45
paulproteusI have never. As I understand it, it asks git to use a sane umask for that situation.15:45
paulproteusI prefer to multiplex over SSH via one git user ID than to fiddle with that.15:46
nathanythis seems like a slightly different situation15:46
nathanynot for the "central" place (where we multiplex) but for a check for, say, where JED3 and I may both want to twiddle things15:46
nathanymaybe I'm misunderstanding the reach of it?15:47
paulproteusWell, it's only for the .git, as I understand it, not the working tree.15:47
nathanyoh, does it just control the .git/ umask15:47
nathanygot it15:47
paulproteusThat's my understanding.15:47
paulproteusP.S. Permissions in UNIX are a pain.15:47
nathanysecurity through pain15:47
paulproteusnathany, Now, if you use umask...15:47
nathanyoh, before you clone it?15:48
paulproteusPlus you run "newgrp" to change your default group.15:48
paulproteusThen you'd be in business as far as the working tree.15:48
paulproteusYou have to run newgrp so that new files get created with GID the_group_you_want rather than GID nathany.15:48
paulproteus(but in a pinch, you can always "sudo chgrp ccnetwork -R .")15:49
paulproteusI hope I'm making sense; I'm elliding a lot here.15:49
nathanyyeah, i just misunderstood core.sharedRepository15:49
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paulproteusThat's my understanding; I would check the man page before believing me for sure.15:49
nathanybtw, hgsubversion now handles svn:externals (although not new-style svn 1.5 defs) whihc is cool15:49
nathanypaulproteus: have you seen the git manpages? this has been much more informative15:50
* paulproteus chuckles15:50
paulproteusWell, maybe not man pages, but I'd get some sort of second opinion from somewhere.15:50
paulproteusI try to tell people I'm not an authoritative source but they rarely listen. |:15:50
nathanywell this fits my observed behavior now that I think about it15:50
paulproteus"Sadly" usually that doesn't hurt them.15:50
paroneayeanathany: ping15:51
nathanyparoneayea: pong15:51
paroneayeastill busy with mail?15:52
nathanynope, what's up?15:52
paroneayeaSomehow over the last few days I noticed that building out i18n.git stopped working because Babel>0.99 (ie, Babel 1.X) no longer exists on pypi15:52
nathanyparoneayea: hrm... did it previously pull from pypi? for some reason I have this memory that paulproteus crafted a custom egg for that with some bug fixes rolled in15:53
paroneayeaI don't remember how I got it previously :)15:54
paulproteusI think that's correct, although I think that they eventually accepted my patches.15:54
nathanyparoneayea: so maybe there was a find_links?15:54
paroneayeaoh, so there is:15:54
nathanyfind-links =
paroneayeadon't know why it isn't finding it in there then!15:54
paroneayearunning ./bin/buildout, even with that line in there, it complains15:55
paroneayeanm, I know why15:55
paroneayeapython2.6 ;)15:55
nathanygreat :)15:55
nathanyyeah, to bad we don't have a tarball instead15:56
nathanyoh well15:56
paulproteusYou can probably safely rename my py2.5 egg if you remove the .pyc files... (or check that my Babel bugs were really closed with patch merged, then just use upstream trunk)15:57
paulproteus(rename my py2.5 egg to py2.6)15:57
paroneayeathat would explain why it was working on my debian testing laptop and not my ubuntu desktop :)15:57
nathanypaulproteus: eggs don't include .py files15:57
paulproteusnathany, whoa15:58
nathanythey're binary15:58
paulproteusdecompyle (-;15:58
paulproteusOr you can see my second option about trunk.15:58
paulproteusAnyway, poof.15:58
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jibotjgay is
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paroneayeaso in this document16:26
paroneayeaunder "adding a jurisdiction"16:26
nathanyparoneayea: yes16:26
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jibotakozak is Alex Kozak, Program Assistant at ccLearn and SFC@Berkeley co-founder and a norse god16:26
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paroneayeaupdating translations seems to already work, but the command for adding a jurisdiction doesn't yet, right?16:27
nathanyparoneayea: right16:27
nathanyright now you'd add the appropriate stanza to licenses.xml16:27
nathanybut that's going away16:27
paroneayeaah okay16:27
paroneayeaalso, I've been kind of having trouble with figuring out how things currently work vs how they should work16:27
paroneayeaI feel like I should go through the "current process" to understand how it works already so I know how it *should** work16:28
paroneayeaI'm not sure if that's correct16:28
paroneayeabut if that's true, there are a bunch of steps I don't want to run because it would interfere with real live processes16:28
paroneayeais there some kind of magical playground version of this?16:28
paroneayeawhere I can ttest things like deploying things, test the pootle stuff, without screwing up real actual work?16:28
nathanyparoneayea: unfortunately there's not much of a sandbox/playground16:29
nathanyi suppose you could use git instead of svn and not push things back to the server but that might not work16:29
nathanynkinkade can probably answer questions you might have about how it works now16:29
nathanysince he's the one that usually does that16:29
nkinkadeparoneayea: What is it exactly that you want to test¿16:30
nkinkadeI'll re-back a bit to see.16:30
paroneayeankinkade: heh, well... I'm going through that whole "revamp the jurisdiction management" process now16:30
paroneayea - but I don't even know how it works presently16:30
paroneayea - I'm not sure how to test it without screwing things up16:31
paroneayeaI wanted to go through the tutorial on this weekend, but I didn't want to mess everything up16:32
nkinkadeparoneayea: Things can *mostly* be done without affecting the live site, with the exception of some i18n stuff, I believe.16:32
nkinkadeThe problem is that the live site works partially off of some stuff /trunk stuff ...16:33
nkinkadeOr maybe it's that the live site uses some of the licenses_xsl stuff??16:33
nkinkadenathany: ^^16:33
nkinkadeI forget the exact distinction between /trunk and /branches/grandually_increasing_sanity_branch of license_xsl16:34
nathanynkinkade: paroneayea: the live site (unfortunately) uses them both16:34
nathanyi'm not proud of that16:34
nathany(and that's why we're working on this)16:34
nkinkadeSo paroneayea, I think that the main issue with running things in a totally testing environment.16:34
nkinkadeThe API will pick up some of the things, which might cause the jurisdiction to show up on and also the
nkinkadeparoneayea: But outside of license_xsl (??) I think most stuff is segregated between production and staging.16:35
nkinkadeIs there a particular part that you wanted to test?16:35
paroneayeaheh well16:35
nkinkadeI know the feeling.16:36
paroneayeayou don't happen to have a jurisdiction you need deploying that you want to walk me through, do you? ;)16:36
nkinkadeNot at the moment.16:36
paroneayeafor some reason when trying to wrap my head around it this weekend I felt totally overwhelmed.  I think mostly because I couldn't even ask questions like this16:36
paroneayea"can I go through this tutorial without breaking things" (no)16:37
paroneayeanow that I have at least confirmed what piece needs working on maybe it won't be so bad16:37
nkinkadeparoneayea: I think the only thing you need to be careful not to commit are changes in license_xsl16:37
paulproteus"I have no solutions or better alternatives to offer. But a week ago I didn’t even understand enough to ask annoying questions." <>16:37
paroneayeapaulproteus: that's an amazing line16:38
paroneayeaand very true16:38
nkinkadeparoneayea: My suggestion would be to follow all the steps of that teamspace page, but when it comes to license_xsl, don't commit your changes ... keep them local (principally licenses.xml) and just manually copy them to staging.16:39
paroneayeaI mean, what about the pootle stuff and everything, committing things to subversion?16:39
paroneayeashould I just commit them and then revert them after I'm done?16:39
paroneayeayou answered that.16:39
paroneayeayeah I suppose I can just keep making changes and not commit them16:41
paroneayeapass diffs around16:41
nkinkadeparoneayea: Be careful with the i18n stuff too.16:41
nkinkadenkinkade@a5:/var/www/$ svn info16:41
paroneayeahm :\16:42
nkinkadecc.engine uses i18n/trunk, and so does staging. :-(16:42
paroneayeaI will do my best to not accidentally deploy the new jurisdiction of Footopia16:42
nkinkadeIt's a less than ideal setup currently, to say the least.16:43
nkinkadeparoneayea: I *think* that i18n and license_xsl are the only two real places where you have to watch your steps.16:43
paroneayeathx nkinkade16:46
paroneayeaI will do my best, be vigilant, for the good of my country &etc16:46
paroneayeaand will bother you with annoying questions once I get far enough :))16:46
paulproteusparoneayea, And to obey the scout law.16:55
akozakjust got an email that the berkeley art museum hiring a programmer, anyone know anyone on the bay looking for a coding gig?16:58
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JED3nathany: quick Django question...17:10
nathanyJED3: sure17:12
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JED3if you raise an Http404 exception, and have created a 404 template for Django to use in the handling of the exception, if you were to pass a message to the exception object (e.g. raise Exception("foobar")  ) is this passed in a context to the 404 template?17:12
KEBA1hi there17:13
JED3I ask because returns a generic not found message17:13
nathanyJED3: I'm not sure17:13
JED3but in the view function it reads "raise Http404(_(u"No work URI specified."))"17:13
nathanyi'd have to look @ the docs for the request/response17:13
nathanyhi KEBA117:13
JED3nathany: I've been looking, can't find anything17:14
JED3the way django handles the Http404 exception is a bit magical17:14
nathanyJED3: looks like it just gets the request path17:15
KEBA1im going to make a free (CC-BY-SA) audio podcast about free music. in this podcast i talk about free music and want to play some songs. these songs are mostly CC licensed... some of theme have the SA attribute... is it ok, if i use these songs  in my podcast? i mean, the "whole podcast" has anohter license...17:15
nathanyJED3: I suppose you would return an HttpResponseNotFound ( with a custom template if you need more specialized handling17:16
JED3yeah, but all we want is different string for the 404 message17:16
nathanyKEBA1: if your podcast is a derivative work, then SA requires that it uses the same or compatible license17:16
nathanyJED3: right; i seem to recall that the Http404 handler is actually done in middleware17:17
nathanymaybe that's the place to look17:17
KEBA1nathany: yep, i know... but the question is wheter playing a song among others and talking about them is a derivative work...17:17
RainRatKEBA1: I suppose if you play the songs sequentally, it's a collective work as defined in the license17:17
KEBA1RainRat: what do you mean with sequentally?17:17
nathanyRainRat: i know the license distinguishes between collections/derivatives, but does it make a statement about playing music specifically?17:18
RainRatdoesn't mention music specifically, but check if the definition of "collective work" would apply to your case17:19
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RainRatsequentially, meaning each song is played one after the other, with no mixing between them, in order to satisfy the definition of "collective work"17:20
KEBA1ah ok...17:22
greg-gKEBA1: will you be playing the entire song that you are talking about? If you're only playing a segment of it then your use is probably a fair use which means the license terms don't apply.17:22
greg-g(IANAL and all that)17:22
KEBA1greg-g: no, id like to play the entire song most times, i think.17:23
greg-gok, just asking17:23
KEBA1RainRat: no, there wont be any mixes. but am i allowed to talk during the music?17:23
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RainRatKEBA1: I'm not sure, i think if you did, any talking would be bound by the ShareAlike attribute of the music17:25
KEBA1RainRat: hm, ok...17:25
KEBA1well, it is the same about ND? "collective work" is ok while talking is illegal17:26
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greg-gKEBA1: I think if you keep the talking over the song to a minimum ("here is the part I talked about before, see how it crescendos nicely") you should be ok. As your intention is mostly showcasing (ie: a collection) and not a new song based on another. And I bet the original song's author would agree.17:42
greg-gif, however, you were using the song as an intro/outro/fill music then the -SA would come into play.17:45
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mralexmecredis: your board dashboard slides still say TK... please fix :)18:25
mecredisah thanks for the ping18:25
mecrediswill do now18:25
mecredismralex: fixed18:32
mralexmecredis: thanks!18:32
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jibotpyrak is Parker Phinney and and a sophomore at Dartmouth and a former CC tech intern19:17
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akozakmralex: does the cc blog have rss feeds for categories (e.g. an rss feed for the cclearn category)?19:50
akozakok cool19:50
mralexthat's how the blog on the cclearn front page works19:50
akozakok so i could find the url in that code then19:51
mralexit's in a settings page19:51
mralexor just
mralexcategory being waht you want19:51
akozakohhh ok that's easy19:52
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pyrakhave people been popping in to ask questions?20:00
nkinkadepyrak: By the way, I still have search.CC on my list, but was gone all last week.20:00
pyraknkinkade, cool.  could you take a look at that merge?20:01
pyrakapparently i effed up the svnmerge tracking files or something20:02
nkinkadeYeah, I will.  Just haven't had time yet and since search.CC works as is I haven't given it a super high priority, but I will probably get to it this week.20:02
pyraknkinkade, cool, thanks!20:02
nkinkadeNo problem ... and thanks for actually making all those changes. :-)20:02
pyrakhappy to do it20:03
pyrakmlinksva had mentioned blogging stuff at labs.  is that still something we want to do?20:04
mlinksvapyrak: yes20:08
mlinksvaunless nathany|lunch thinks otherwise anyhow20:08
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nkinkadepyrak: I'll let you know when I get it up and running so that you can blog it.20:18
nathanyyes, we should blog it20:19
* pyrak goes to home depot20:21
nkinkadenathany: Do you happen to know how to make someone a Pootle admin?20:26
nkinkadeAm I going to have to do it manually in the SQLite DB?20:26
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nathanynkinkade: uh... no idea; maybe paulproteus knows20:32
nathanyi forget how that works with mozootle20:32
nkinkadenathany: I figured it out.20:32
nkinkadeI just did it manually with sqlite320:32
nkinkade-1 Pootle20:32
nkinkadenathany: You'll be excited to know that I just launched the new store.20:45
nathanynkinkade: woot20:45
mralexthat's quite exciting20:45
nkinkadeI made a test purchase with my own paypal account and it all worked nicely.20:46
mralexmecredis: do you have users/works data for ccnetwork for july and august?20:49
mralexJED3: thanks!20:49
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nathanyJED3: see your inbox for something with some urgency21:06
paroneayeaoh hey nathany21:07
paroneayeaseparate issue, but!21:08
nathanyhi paroneayea21:08
paroneayeaI did extract those videos from the iso21:08
paroneayeaI don't know how to title them, give them descriptions, upload them to though21:08
paroneayeaer, don't know what titles or descriptions to give them21:08
paroneayeaalso, do they need a splash page?21:08
nathanyparoneayea: they probably don't need a splash page, we could just title them in the metadata.21:08
paroneayealike CREATIVE COMMONS \n << LOGO >> \n TALK \n PRESENTER21:08
paroneayeaah okay21:08
nathanyhrm, maybe we can just upload to IA as "session 1", "session 2", etc (n files in a single IA item) and then I can look at them and edit the metadata?21:09
nathanyhave you uploaded to IA before?21:09
nathany(it's sort of a pain for large items... FTP)21:09
paroneayeanathany: never have :)21:10
paroneayeaalso the files are currently21:10
paroneayeahum, where did they go21:10
paroneayeadidn't expect that extension, but shoulda have21:11
paroneayea-rw-r--r-- 1 cwebber cwebber 675M 2009-09-12 18:36 ccts3.iso-01.ogv21:11
paroneayea-rw-r--r-- 1 cwebber cwebber 437M 2009-09-12 20:08 ccts3.iso-02.ogv21:11
paroneayea-rw-r--r-- 1 cwebber cwebber 541M 2009-09-13 00:22 ccts3.iso-03.ogv21:11
paroneayea-rw-r--r-- 1 cwebber cwebber 307M 2009-09-13 11:41 ccts3.iso-04.ogv21:11
paroneayeanot tiny files21:11
paroneayeashould I try shrinking them further?21:11
JED3shouldn't this work? `var $ = document.getElementById;`21:11
nathanyparoneayea: no, we should upload to IA in as high quality as possible21:11
nathanythey'll derive smaller/streaming versions for us21:12
paroneayeathey are pretty blurry off of the dvd though :)21:12
paroneayeamaybe that's my fault, but I don't think it is21:13
nathanyparoneayea: i doubt it's your fault, just annoying21:13
nathanywell let's just upload to IA and move on21:13
nathanyi can go ahead and create the item @ IA and send you FTP instructions if that works for you21:13
paroneayeaworks good for me21:14
nathanyone second21:14
paroneayeaso yeah I jusr burned it to a dvd and watched it directly via vlc21:30
paroneayeacan confirm that it's blurry to begin with21:30
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jibotgreg-g is """developing"""" the """"community"""" for """"creative commons"""""22:02
mralex""is"" """he""" ""really""22:04
mralex"wink" "wink"22:04
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jibotpyrak is Parker Phinney and and a sophomore at Dartmouth and a former CC tech intern22:16
paroneayeamralex: """yarly"""22:17
* pyrak returns to home depot22:26
pyrakwith so. much. cat5.22:26
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mralexhome depot sells cat5?22:37
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jibotgreg-g is """developing"""" the """"community"""" for """"creative commons"""""22:37
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jibotpyrak is Parker Phinney and and a sophomore at Dartmouth and a former CC tech intern23:06
nkinkademralex: In Safari, does the following video play with the Quicktime version?23:22
nkinkadeI decided to take your advice and use <source> to put in multiple versions so that the browser can choose.23:23
jibotI've forgotten all about greg-g23:23
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mralexnkinkade: hmm, can't tell whcih one it decided to use. unless there are some discernible differences between the flv and mov23:27
nkinkademralex: I couldn't tell in Firefox either at first ... I had to select the "Copy Source URL" contextual menu item.23:28
nkinkade... then inspect the URL.23:28
nkinkade("Copy Video Location")23:28
nkinkadeI put three sources in there: Quicktime, Theora and Flash.23:29
nkinkadeFirefox 3.5 is correctly choosing the Theora one.23:29
mralexi don't think the flv source is necessary, since there's already the flash embed fallback23:29
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