Friday, 2009-06-26

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nkinkadepyrak: Are you having problems getting into the blog?00:51
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zhxkwho knows lzmalib?03:21
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thomggood god i slept in12:29
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zhxkhello, how to produce pid-like number efficently and unique?15:04
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paulproteusnkinkade, morning15:47
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nkinkadepaulproteus: Hey.15:55
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nkinkadezhxk: I think you're in the wrong channel.  This channel is for Creative Commons (
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paulproteuszhxk, Try ##c17:21
paulproteus(for C help)17:22
paulproteusnkinkade, We're going out for lunch tomorrow (or having a picnic, haven't nailed it down yet) in Midtown around 2. Join us?17:22
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nkinkadepaulproteus: Actually tomorrow afternoon isn't good.  I'm going on a hike with my mother.  Probably from around 9am - later afternoon.17:43
paulproteusOkay, we'll pick another time then.17:45
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JED3nkinkade: ping21:41
nkinkadeHi JED321:41
JED3hey, i'll pm you instead21:42
akozaknkinkade: something up with the cc wiki?21:42
akozakI'm getting 503s intermittently21:43
nkinkadeakozak: Not that I know of, but I did just do an upgrade.21:43
akozaknkinkade: mediawiki upgrade?21:43
nkinkadeI upgraded our HTTP accelerator, so for about <60s it may have gone down for a second.21:43
nkinkadeakozak: If you notice any more hiccups on the wiki let me know.  Otherwise I'll take it for granted that the couple outages you saw were just the upgrade I did.21:47
akozakI'm getting 503s still21:47
akozakError 503 Service Unavailable21:47
akozakService Unavailable21:47
akozakGuru Meditation:21:47
akozakXID: 138555715421:47
akozakthat's when i try to save a page21:48
nkinkadeakozak: Trying doing Shift-<refresh>21:48
nkinkadeIf you're in Firefox, that is.21:48
nkinkadeIt's working for me, so I assume you're seeing a cached error message.21:49
akozakyea ok wacky things happening21:50
akozakone second21:50
akozakI'm still having problems, flushed my cache and everything21:52
nkinkadeAre you in the office?21:52
nkinkadeIs anyone else having an issue?21:52
akozakYea, it's possible that the office connection is clogged... I hear someone's been torrenting21:52
akozakone second21:53
akozakI'm getting 503s still though21:53
nkinkadeakozak: JED3 just checked and it's working for him as well.21:53
nkinkadeSomehow you're seeing a cached error page.21:53
akozakcan you check
akozakoh ok21:53
nkinkadeThat page works for me.21:54
nkinkadeHmmm.  Have someone near you try it.21:54
nkinkadeWhere are you, akozak?21:54
nkinkadeMaybe a stubborn proxy server?21:54
akozaknkinkade: No it's ok now, took a browser restart.  That was really weird though...21:55
nkinkadeThat sucks, but it would have sucked even more if the site were really down. :-)21:55
akozakI'm still having problems saving pages though21:55
akozakare you?21:55
nkinkadeHow do you mean?21:55
nkinkade"Save Page As"?21:56
akozakNo saving the wiki edits21:56
nkinkadeOh, sorry.21:56
nkinkadeLet me try.21:56
akozakjust got a database error21:57
nkinkadeYeah, it's hanging for me too.  One sec.21:59
akozaknkinkade: ok thanks21:59
nkinkadeakozak: It *seems* like it may have been a session issue.  I delete the cookies for the domain, then it started working again.22:03
JED3nkinkade: just out of curiosity, how are we performing mysql backups?22:04
nkinkadeJED3: There is a script that does nightly dumps and pulls them to the backup machine (behind the Xerox Workcentre in the office).22:05
nkinkadeWe keeps one week of running backups.22:05
JED3hmm okay22:06
nkinkadeJED3: I suppose you should have an account on that machine.22:06
JED3ah ha22:07
akozaknkinkade: still getting some weird hangups22:11
akozakClicking edit on and
akozakand reloading them.22:12
akozakor refreshing22:12
akozaknkinkade: What's weird about it is that it's intermittent.22:14
akozakBut right now it all seems to be hung up.22:14
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akozakI could just try again later if it's just an upgrade problem22:15
Viper550okay, we need clarification. you say "You may distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, or publicly digitally perform a Derivative Work only under the terms of this License, a later version of this License with the same License Elements as this License"22:15
nkinkadeakozak: It could be some mysql issue.  But not sure about the intermittent thing.22:17
Viper550so we can only use '''derivatives''' under future versions?22:17
akozakViper550: current or future22:18
Viper550no as in, we can only use a future version ourselves if its a derivative22:18
Viper550we on Wikimedia Commons, can't just change the tag from 2.0 to say, 3.0?22:19
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MultichilViper550 : Did you already ask the question?22:20
Viper550so, theoretically, changing just ONE pixel would be enough to qualify under that, right?22:20
Viper550and yes I did.22:20
MultichilWe're talking about at least half a million images so it has quite an impact.22:21
nkinkadeViper550: Only the copyright holder could make that change.22:21
Viper550we have a tag that says its licensed under almost ALL versions of cc-by-sa22:21
nkinkadeI think it arguable whether changing 1px would constitute a derivative.22:21
Viper550but you say in your copyleft clause ""You may distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, or publicly digitally perform a Derivative Work only under the terms of this License, a later version of this License with the same License Elements as this License"22:22
MultichilThe copyright holder can license it under whatever license he wants. The question is if we can use cc-by-sa-2.5 under cc-by-sa-3.0 too.22:22
akozaknkinkade: Lila is getting database errors saving regular pages too.22:22
nkinkadeakozak: I'll look into it now.22:22
nkinkadeMultichil: That's a good question.  I suggest you post it on the cc-community list.22:23
Multichilnkinkade : You probably know about the Wikipedia switch from to GFDL to cc-by-sa-3.0. We're also switching at Wikimedia Commons22:24
Viper550and a later version would count as "a later version of this License with the same License Elements as this License", right?22:24
MultichilIf we are allowed to use cc-by-sa-2.5 under a cc-by-sa-3.0 license this would make the whole change a lot easier.22:24
akozakMultichil: as in, you want to switch what license your wiki uses from 2.5 to 30?22:25
akozak3.0 rather22:25
Viper550the statement is naturally wonky.22:25
Multichilakozak :
Viper550our text is gfdl+cc-by-sa 3.022:25
Multichilakozak : We would be able to use the 200.000+ images in under 3.0 too.22:26
MultichilWould make the whole transition a lot easier22:26
akozakMultichil: I don't get what you mean by "use them under".  Do you want to switch what license the images are under or do you want the images to be interoperable with 3.0?22:27
akozakOk so you have all these images under 2.5 and you want the images to be interoperable with 3.022:28
Viper550many of our images are tagged saying they are licensed under ALL versions of the cc-by-sa license up to 2.522:28
Multichilakozak : take for example
Viper550Multichil, bad example22:29
Viper550you CAN use that one under by-sa 3.022:29
Platonidesit's only Cc-by xD22:29
Viper550cc-by + GFDL, combined with section 13 = cc-by-sa too22:29
Viper550*that 1.3 clause22:30
MultichilViper550 : Let's take
MultichilIt would be nice to just be able to redirect,2.0,1.0 to,2.5,2.0,1.022:32
Viper550uhh there you CAN since its also GFDL 1.322:35
nkinkadeViper550: Multichil: I'm not aware that there is anything in a BY-SA license that would allow one to incorporate 3.0 content into a 2.5 licensed work, however, I'm not sure the distinction matters.22:36
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nkinkadeThe 2.5 BY-SA license allows derivatives to be licensed under a 3.0 BY-SA license, so it's a matter of perspective ... maybe I've misunderstood the question.22:36
Platonidesbut can the work be used under the CC-BY-SA 3.0 terms?22:37
nkinkadeIs the new work a derivative of the 2.5 work in question or of the 3.0 work ... I suppose you could say whichever you want.22:37
MultichilThere is no new work22:38
nkinkadeLike I say, I think you should pose this question on cc-community.  That list has quite a lot of people on it, including many lawyers.  You'll get better info there.22:38
PlatonidesI agree it's a better place22:38
nkinkadeThe list isn't that busy, and it's an interesting one to be on, I think.22:39
nkinkadeI'm just a tech guy here at CC so nothing I've said definitive .. not that that needed clarifying, or ever that anything I've said was remotely useful. :-)22:40
nkinkadeakozak: Are you still seeing the wiki problems?22:41
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JED3nkinkade: am I missing something or is civicrm not using the cc_support or cc_support_staging mysql db's on a9?22:43
Viper550See the GFDL doesn't have this problem as it has clauses specifically talking about "oh we may release new versions, you can say its licensed under this and all future versions"22:43
nkinkadeJED3: It's using civicrm[_staging]22:43
nkinkadecc_support[_staging] is Drupal.22:43
JED3ahhh crap, i'm using the ccsupport username for mysql, that must be it22:43
nkinkadeJED3: That shouldn't be a problem.  I though they used the same user/pass, just be sure to not be testing on the live database.22:44
nkinkadethat is, always use the db suffix _staging.22:44
JED3yeah, but the ccsupport user cannot access the civicrm databases22:45
JED3you have to use the mysql user civicrm22:45
JED3so I see the tables now, thx22:45
nkinkadeViper550: Yeah, the BY-SA license try to take into account newer version (except v1.0), but it's up to the copyright holder to relicense the work under a newer version.22:45
Viper550this needs to be made ore explicit in the next version22:46
nkinkadeI seem to have something against the letter S today.22:46
nkinkadeViper550: What needs to be more explicit?22:46
nkinkadeSorry if I'm being dense.22:46
Viper550this stuff about future versions22:47
nkinkadeWhat part of it is ambiguous to you?22:47
Viper550firstly, the entire line "You may distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, or publicly digitally perform a Derivative Work only under the terms of this License, a later version of this License with the same License Elements as this License"22:48
Viper550I think we need an entire section for this stuff line in the GNU licenses22:48
nkinkadeThat could be.  It's something you worth proposing on cc-community.  You'll surely be hearing from Gisle Hannemyr, one of the project leads of CC Norway ...22:50
nkinkadeHe's very active and helpful on the cc-community list.22:51
nkinkadeAnd since this has something to do with Wikimedia I suspect you'll get a lot of response.22:51
MultichilViper550 : Did you already find out which versions have that line? cc-by-sa-2.5, but also the cc-by-2.5 or cc-by-sa-2.0 / cc-by-2.0?22:52
akozaknkinkade: yes, still getting hangups22:53
nkinkadeakozak: Lila says it's working for her now.22:53
akozaknkinkade: yea, it's happening inconsistently for some reason.  Sometimes the save change goes through after a while.22:54
nkinkadeMultichil: I think all version of the BY-SA license have that except for v1.022:54
akozaknkinkade: Could be just a load issue?22:54
nkinkadeakozak: Are you still getting MySQL errors, or are things just timing out?22:55
Viper550yeah, 1.0 didn't have it because there were no future versions yet22:55
akozaknkinkade: It's going more smoothly... no errors recently, just hangs once in a while.22:57
akozakNot a huge deal...22:57
nkinkadeWe'll play it by ear.  Hopefully this was isolated.  It would be very uncool if people were unable to edit the wiki reliably.22:58
nkinkadeHopefully it was session related.  I've seen some issues with hungup mysql threads, though, threads that were holding locks on certain database rows.22:59
nkinkadeBut if it works one minute for you, then not the next, then it's probably not that.22:59
akozaknkinkade: scratch what I said, just got another 503.22:59
nkinkadeakozak: Give me exact URL.23:00
akozakTried to save an edit on
akozak was the URL I was on when I saved23:01
Viper550ideas: remove the distinction between adaptation and stuff from that part, and instead have as an option, "a later version of this license when specified by the Licensor"23:01
akozakthen it took me to the general template URL23:01
pyrakelementary question: how do i grep all files in a folder?23:02
JED3pyrak: want to recurse too?23:02
JED3and what are you searching for?23:03
pyrakjust a simple string.  no recursion, thanks23:03
pyraki tried piping from ls, and couldn't seem to get that to work23:03
pyrakJED3,  ^23:04
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JED3ls? so you are looking for a specific filename?23:04
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pyraknono.  i want to search for a string within a bunch of files23:04
pyrakthe human-readable query is "i know this string exists in some file within this folder.  tell me which file, and which line"23:05
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JED3oh then `grep "string" *`23:05
JED3through in a '-n' flag for the line numbers23:07
JED3nkinkade: are you in the bahamas yet?23:11
nkinkadeNot until the 10th of July.23:11
JED3ahh okay23:11
JED3which island?23:11
nkinkadepyrak: grep -r somestring somedirectory23:12
nkinkadeGreat Exuma.23:12
nkinkadeAnd -rl is sometimes useful to only list which files matches and not give context.23:13
pyraknkinkade, JED3 thanks.  ps: i made some progress on jswidget23:24
pyraki'll email webmaster now, i think23:26
JED3pyrak: svn up and you'll effectively be doing just that23:33
JED3pyrak: looks good23:34
pyraknote especially the descript that pops up when you select "no license"23:36
nkinkadeakozak: Try editing that template again.  I delete it and recreated it.  It's a little sluggish, but it seems to work now.23:51
nkinkadeOther pages seemed fine ... it was just that one (?) page that giving me problems.23:51
akozaknkinkade: interesting.23:52
akozaknkinkade: just tried to save an edit, got another 503 :(23:52
akozakI'm about to leave for the weekend though...  I'll try again on Monday and see if it's still an issue.23:53
akozakSometimes things work themselves out...23:54
akozakthanks for investigating nkinkade23:55
akozakhave a good weekend!23:55
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