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| nkinkade | pyrak: Are you having problems getting into the blog? | 00:51 |
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| zhxk | hello, how to produce pid-like number efficently and unique? | 15:04 |
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| paulproteus | nkinkade, morning | 15:47 |
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| nkinkade | paulproteus: Hey. | 15:55 |
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| nkinkade | zhxk: I think you're in the wrong channel. This channel is for Creative Commons (http://creativecommons.org) | 16:42 |
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| paulproteus | zhxk, Try ##c | 17:21 |
| paulproteus | (for C help) | 17:22 |
| paulproteus | nkinkade, We're going out for lunch tomorrow (or having a picnic, haven't nailed it down yet) in Midtown around 2. Join us? | 17:22 |
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| nkinkade | paulproteus: Actually tomorrow afternoon isn't good. I'm going on a hike with my mother. Probably from around 9am - later afternoon. | 17:43 |
| paulproteus | Okay, we'll pick another time then. | 17:45 |
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| JED3 | nkinkade: ping | 21:41 |
| nkinkade | Hi JED3 | 21:41 |
| JED3 | hey, i'll pm you instead | 21:42 |
| akozak | nkinkade: something up with the cc wiki? | 21:42 |
| akozak | I'm getting 503s intermittently | 21:43 |
| nkinkade | akozak: Not that I know of, but I did just do an upgrade. | 21:43 |
| akozak | nkinkade: mediawiki upgrade? | 21:43 |
| nkinkade | I upgraded our HTTP accelerator, so for about <60s it may have gone down for a second. | 21:43 |
| nkinkade | akozak: If you notice any more hiccups on the wiki let me know. Otherwise I'll take it for granted that the couple outages you saw were just the upgrade I did. | 21:47 |
| akozak | I'm getting 503s still | 21:47 |
| akozak | Error 503 Service Unavailable | 21:47 |
| akozak | Service Unavailable | 21:47 |
| akozak | Guru Meditation: | 21:47 |
| akozak | XID: 1385557154 | 21:47 |
| akozak | Varnish | 21:47 |
| akozak | but | 21:47 |
| akozak | hmm | 21:47 |
| akozak | that's when i try to save a page | 21:48 |
| nkinkade | akozak: Trying doing Shift-<refresh> | 21:48 |
| nkinkade | If you're in Firefox, that is. | 21:48 |
| nkinkade | It's working for me, so I assume you're seeing a cached error message. | 21:49 |
| akozak | yea ok wacky things happening | 21:50 |
| akozak | one second | 21:50 |
| akozak | I'm still having problems, flushed my cache and everything | 21:52 |
| nkinkade | Are you in the office? | 21:52 |
| nkinkade | Is anyone else having an issue? | 21:52 |
| akozak | Yea, it's possible that the office connection is clogged... I hear someone's been torrenting | 21:52 |
| akozak | one second | 21:53 |
| akozak | I'm getting 503s still though | 21:53 |
| nkinkade | akozak: JED3 just checked and it's working for him as well. | 21:53 |
| nkinkade | Somehow you're seeing a cached error page. | 21:53 |
| akozak | can you check http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Template:CcLearn_FAQ | 21:53 |
| akozak | oh ok | 21:53 |
| nkinkade | That page works for me. | 21:54 |
| akozak | ugh | 21:54 |
| nkinkade | Hmmm. Have someone near you try it. | 21:54 |
| nkinkade | Where are you, akozak? | 21:54 |
| nkinkade | Maybe a stubborn proxy server? | 21:54 |
| akozak | nkinkade: No it's ok now, took a browser restart. That was really weird though... | 21:55 |
| nkinkade | That sucks, but it would have sucked even more if the site were really down. :-) | 21:55 |
| akozak | I'm still having problems saving pages though | 21:55 |
| akozak | are you? | 21:55 |
| nkinkade | How do you mean? | 21:55 |
| nkinkade | "Save Page As"? | 21:56 |
| akozak | No saving the wiki edits | 21:56 |
| nkinkade | Oh, sorry. | 21:56 |
| nkinkade | Duh. | 21:56 |
| nkinkade | Let me try. | 21:56 |
| akozak | just got a database error | 21:57 |
| nkinkade | Yeah, it's hanging for me too. One sec. | 21:59 |
| akozak | nkinkade: ok thanks | 21:59 |
| nkinkade | akozak: It *seems* like it may have been a session issue. I delete the cookies for the domain, then it started working again. | 22:03 |
| JED3 | nkinkade: just out of curiosity, how are we performing mysql backups? | 22:04 |
| nkinkade | JED3: There is a script that does nightly dumps and pulls them to the backup machine (behind the Xerox Workcentre in the office). | 22:05 |
| nkinkade | We keeps one week of running backups. | 22:05 |
| JED3 | hmm okay | 22:06 |
| nkinkade | http://code.creativecommons.org/viewsvn/scripts/fetch_mysqldumps.pl?revision=8027&view=markup | 22:06 |
| nkinkade | JED3: I suppose you should have an account on that machine. | 22:06 |
| JED3 | ah ha | 22:07 |
| akozak | nkinkade: still getting some weird hangups | 22:11 |
| nkinkade | Where? | 22:11 |
| nkinkade | Specifically. | 22:11 |
| akozak | Clicking edit on http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Form:CcLearn_FAQ and http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Template:CcLearn_FAQ | 22:12 |
| akozak | and reloading them. | 22:12 |
| akozak | or refreshing | 22:12 |
| akozak | nkinkade: What's weird about it is that it's intermittent. | 22:14 |
| akozak | But right now it all seems to be hung up. | 22:14 |
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| akozak | I could just try again later if it's just an upgrade problem | 22:15 |
| Viper550 | okay, we need clarification. you say "You may distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, or publicly digitally perform a Derivative Work only under the terms of this License, a later version of this License with the same License Elements as this License" | 22:15 |
| nkinkade | akozak: It could be some mysql issue. But not sure about the intermittent thing. | 22:17 |
| Viper550 | so we can only use '''derivatives''' under future versions? | 22:17 |
| akozak | Viper550: current or future | 22:18 |
| Viper550 | no as in, we can only use a future version ourselves if its a derivative | 22:18 |
| Viper550 | we on Wikimedia Commons, can't just change the tag from 2.0 to say, 3.0? | 22:19 |
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| * Multichil waves around | 22:19 | |
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| Multichil | Viper550 : Did you already ask the question? | 22:20 |
| Viper550 | so, theoretically, changing just ONE pixel would be enough to qualify under that, right? | 22:20 |
| Viper550 | and yes I did. | 22:20 |
| Multichil | We're talking about at least half a million images so it has quite an impact. | 22:21 |
| nkinkade | Viper550: Only the copyright holder could make that change. | 22:21 |
| Viper550 | we have a tag that says its licensed under almost ALL versions of cc-by-sa | 22:21 |
| nkinkade | I think it arguable whether changing 1px would constitute a derivative. | 22:21 |
| Viper550 | but you say in your copyleft clause ""You may distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, or publicly digitally perform a Derivative Work only under the terms of this License, a later version of this License with the same License Elements as this License" | 22:22 |
| Multichil | The copyright holder can license it under whatever license he wants. The question is if we can use cc-by-sa-2.5 under cc-by-sa-3.0 too. | 22:22 |
| akozak | nkinkade: Lila is getting database errors saving regular pages too. | 22:22 |
| nkinkade | akozak: I'll look into it now. | 22:22 |
| nkinkade | Multichil: That's a good question. I suggest you post it on the cc-community list. | 22:23 |
| Multichil | nkinkade : You probably know about the Wikipedia switch from to GFDL to cc-by-sa-3.0. We're also switching at Wikimedia Commons | 22:24 |
| Viper550 | and a later version would count as "a later version of this License with the same License Elements as this License", right? | 22:24 |
| Multichil | If we are allowed to use cc-by-sa-2.5 under a cc-by-sa-3.0 license this would make the whole change a lot easier. | 22:24 |
| akozak | Multichil: as in, you want to switch what license your wiki uses from 2.5 to 30? | 22:25 |
| akozak | 3.0 rather | 22:25 |
| Viper550 | the statement is naturally wonky. | 22:25 |
| Multichil | akozak : http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page | 22:25 |
| Viper550 | our text is gfdl+cc-by-sa 3.0 | 22:25 |
| Multichil | akozak : We would be able to use the 200.000+ images in http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:CC-BY-SA-2.5 under 3.0 too. | 22:26 |
| Multichil | Would make the whole transition a lot easier | 22:26 |
| akozak | Multichil: I don't get what you mean by "use them under". Do you want to switch what license the images are under or do you want the images to be interoperable with 3.0? | 22:27 |
| akozak | Ok so you have all these images under 2.5 and you want the images to be interoperable with 3.0 | 22:28 |
| Viper550 | many of our images are tagged saying they are licensed under ALL versions of the cc-by-sa license up to 2.5 | 22:28 |
| Multichil | akozak : take for example http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:01-05-06_1835.jpg | 22:29 |
| Viper550 | Multichil, bad example | 22:29 |
| Viper550 | you CAN use that one under by-sa 3.0 | 22:29 |
| Platonides | it's only Cc-by xD | 22:29 |
| Viper550 | cc-by + GFDL, combined with section 13 = cc-by-sa too | 22:29 |
| Viper550 | *that 1.3 clause | 22:30 |
| Multichil | Viper550 : Let's take http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:019_16.JPG | 22:30 |
| Multichil | It would be nice to just be able to redirect http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Cc-by-sa-2.5,2.0,1.0 to http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Cc-by-sa-3.0,2.5,2.0,1.0 | 22:32 |
| Viper550 | uhh there you CAN since its also GFDL 1.3 | 22:35 |
| nkinkade | Viper550: Multichil: I'm not aware that there is anything in a BY-SA license that would allow one to incorporate 3.0 content into a 2.5 licensed work, however, I'm not sure the distinction matters. | 22:36 |
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| nkinkade | The 2.5 BY-SA license allows derivatives to be licensed under a 3.0 BY-SA license, so it's a matter of perspective ... maybe I've misunderstood the question. | 22:36 |
| Platonides | but can the work be used under the CC-BY-SA 3.0 terms? | 22:37 |
| nkinkade | Is the new work a derivative of the 2.5 work in question or of the 3.0 work ... I suppose you could say whichever you want. | 22:37 |
| Multichil | There is no new work | 22:38 |
| nkinkade | Like I say, I think you should pose this question on cc-community. That list has quite a lot of people on it, including many lawyers. You'll get better info there. | 22:38 |
| Multichil | Linky? | 22:38 |
| nkinkade | http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-community | 22:38 |
| Platonides | I agree it's a better place | 22:38 |
| nkinkade | The list isn't that busy, and it's an interesting one to be on, I think. | 22:39 |
| nkinkade | I'm just a tech guy here at CC so nothing I've said definitive .. not that that needed clarifying, or ever that anything I've said was remotely useful. :-) | 22:40 |
| nkinkade | *even | 22:40 |
| nkinkade | akozak: Are you still seeing the wiki problems? | 22:41 |
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| JED3 | nkinkade: am I missing something or is civicrm not using the cc_support or cc_support_staging mysql db's on a9? | 22:43 |
| Viper550 | See the GFDL doesn't have this problem as it has clauses specifically talking about "oh we may release new versions, you can say its licensed under this and all future versions" | 22:43 |
| nkinkade | JED3: It's using civicrm[_staging] | 22:43 |
| nkinkade | cc_support[_staging] is Drupal. | 22:43 |
| JED3 | ahhh crap, i'm using the ccsupport username for mysql, that must be it | 22:43 |
| nkinkade | JED3: That shouldn't be a problem. I though they used the same user/pass, just be sure to not be testing on the live database. | 22:44 |
| nkinkade | that is, always use the db suffix _staging. | 22:44 |
| JED3 | yeah, but the ccsupport user cannot access the civicrm databases | 22:45 |
| JED3 | you have to use the mysql user civicrm | 22:45 |
| JED3 | so I see the tables now, thx | 22:45 |
| nkinkade | Viper550: Yeah, the BY-SA license try to take into account newer version (except v1.0), but it's up to the copyright holder to relicense the work under a newer version. | 22:45 |
| Viper550 | this needs to be made ore explicit in the next version | 22:46 |
| nkinkade | I seem to have something against the letter S today. | 22:46 |
| nkinkade | Viper550: What needs to be more explicit? | 22:46 |
| nkinkade | Sorry if I'm being dense. | 22:46 |
| Viper550 | this stuff about future versions | 22:47 |
| nkinkade | What part of it is ambiguous to you? | 22:47 |
| Viper550 | firstly, the entire line "You may distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, or publicly digitally perform a Derivative Work only under the terms of this License, a later version of this License with the same License Elements as this License" | 22:48 |
| Viper550 | I think we need an entire section for this stuff line in the GNU licenses | 22:48 |
| nkinkade | That could be. It's something you worth proposing on cc-community. You'll surely be hearing from Gisle Hannemyr, one of the project leads of CC Norway ... | 22:50 |
| nkinkade | He's very active and helpful on the cc-community list. | 22:51 |
| nkinkade | And since this has something to do with Wikimedia I suspect you'll get a lot of response. | 22:51 |
| Multichil | Viper550 : Did you already find out which versions have that line? cc-by-sa-2.5, but also the cc-by-2.5 or cc-by-sa-2.0 / cc-by-2.0? | 22:52 |
| akozak | nkinkade: yes, still getting hangups | 22:53 |
| nkinkade | akozak: Lila says it's working for her now. | 22:53 |
| akozak | nkinkade: yea, it's happening inconsistently for some reason. Sometimes the save change goes through after a while. | 22:54 |
| nkinkade | Multichil: I think all version of the BY-SA license have that except for v1.0 | 22:54 |
| akozak | nkinkade: Could be just a load issue? | 22:54 |
| nkinkade | akozak: Are you still getting MySQL errors, or are things just timing out? | 22:55 |
| Viper550 | yeah, 1.0 didn't have it because there were no future versions yet | 22:55 |
| akozak | nkinkade: It's going more smoothly... no errors recently, just hangs once in a while. | 22:57 |
| akozak | Not a huge deal... | 22:57 |
| nkinkade | We'll play it by ear. Hopefully this was isolated. It would be very uncool if people were unable to edit the wiki reliably. | 22:58 |
| nkinkade | Hopefully it was session related. I've seen some issues with hungup mysql threads, though, threads that were holding locks on certain database rows. | 22:59 |
| nkinkade | But if it works one minute for you, then not the next, then it's probably not that. | 22:59 |
| akozak | nkinkade: scratch what I said, just got another 503. | 22:59 |
| akozak | :/ | 23:00 |
| nkinkade | akozak: Give me exact URL. | 23:00 |
| akozak | Tried to save an edit on http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Template:CcLearn_FAQ | 23:00 |
| akozak | http://wiki.creativecommons.org/index.php?title=Template:CcLearn_FAQ&action=edit was the URL I was on when I saved | 23:01 |
| Viper550 | ideas: remove the distinction between adaptation and stuff from that part, and instead have as an option, "a later version of this license when specified by the Licensor" | 23:01 |
| akozak | then it took me to the general template URL | 23:01 |
| pyrak | elementary question: how do i grep all files in a folder? | 23:02 |
| JED3 | pyrak: want to recurse too? | 23:02 |
| JED3 | and what are you searching for? | 23:03 |
| pyrak | just a simple string. no recursion, thanks | 23:03 |
| pyrak | i tried piping from ls, and couldn't seem to get that to work | 23:03 |
| pyrak | JED3, ^ | 23:04 |
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| JED3 | ls? so you are looking for a specific filename? | 23:04 |
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| pyrak | nono. i want to search for a string within a bunch of files | 23:04 |
| pyrak | the human-readable query is "i know this string exists in some file within this folder. tell me which file, and which line" | 23:05 |
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| JED3 | oh then `grep "string" *` | 23:05 |
| Viper550 | http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump%23Creative_Commons_Contradiction_Share-Alike | 23:06 |
| JED3 | through in a '-n' flag for the line numbers | 23:07 |
| JED3 | throw* | 23:07 |
| JED3 | nkinkade: are you in the bahamas yet? | 23:11 |
| nkinkade | Not until the 10th of July. | 23:11 |
| JED3 | ahh okay | 23:11 |
| JED3 | which island? | 23:11 |
| nkinkade | pyrak: grep -r somestring somedirectory | 23:12 |
| nkinkade | Great Exuma. | 23:12 |
| nkinkade | And -rl is sometimes useful to only list which files matches and not give context. | 23:13 |
| pyrak | nkinkade, JED3 thanks. ps: i made some progress on jswidget | 23:24 |
| pyrak | i'll email webmaster now, i think | 23:26 |
| JED3 | pyrak: svn up and you'll effectively be doing just that | 23:33 |
| JED3 | pyrak: looks good | 23:34 |
| pyrak | note especially the descript that pops up when you select "no license" | 23:36 |
| nkinkade | akozak: Try editing that template again. I delete it and recreated it. It's a little sluggish, but it seems to work now. | 23:51 |
| nkinkade | Other pages seemed fine ... it was just that one (?) page that giving me problems. | 23:51 |
| akozak | nkinkade: interesting. | 23:52 |
| akozak | nkinkade: just tried to save an edit, got another 503 :( | 23:52 |
| akozak | I'm about to leave for the weekend though... I'll try again on Monday and see if it's still an issue. | 23:53 |
| akozak | Sometimes things work themselves out... | 23:54 |
| akozak | thanks for investigating nkinkade | 23:55 |
| akozak | have a good weekend! | 23:55 |
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