Monday, 2009-06-15

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l403I love guessing channel names09:44
l403reading this part on wikipedia "Attribution (by) requires users to attribute a work's original author."09:45
l403are means of mentioning the artist given for digital art?09:45
l403I mean does it matter if the autor is stated clearly in corner or caption or in metadata or in a digital watermark or digital signature?09:46
ianwellera caption is fine09:55
ianwellerl403: ^^09:55
l403ianweller, I know a caption is the best thing to do but I am wondering about what is required09:58
l403if there is a least visible way to be allowed, not that I plan to use such thing09:59
l403just wondering09:59
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ianwellerl403: as long as there is some attribution somewhere that is visible i believe that's fine.11:08
ianwellerl403: in reality, you attribute how the content author wants you to11:09
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johndoigiiihey nkinkade16:45
nkinkadejohndoigiii: Hey.16:46
johndoigiiiis ServerBeach handling our DNS?16:46
nkinkadejohndoigiii: We handle our own DNS.16:46
johndoigiiiohh okay good, thanks16:46
nkinkadeBy the way, as you saw, we got the extra IP.16:46
nkinkadeI'll configure it in just a bit.16:46
nkinkadejohndoigiii: Do you need something regarding DNS?  If so you can change it on a5, or just ask me to do it.16:47
johndoigiiiits okay, i've configured but need to add a cname now16:47
johndoigiiior rather, change the one16:48
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mecredisBovinity: pushing this google draw thing to its limits on slide 1617:04
nkinkadejohndoigiii: Are you doing something on a9 by chance?17:05
johndoigiiiyes I am17:05
nkinkadeApache is down, and all the service it provides.17:05
johndoigiiiyikes, it must have just happened, I've had on auto refresh17:05
nkinkadeIt must have been down for at least about 5 minutes, which is the grace period Nagios usually gives.17:06
nkinkadeI just got an SMS notifying me that Apache was gone.17:06
johndoigiiiokay, its an err in apache conf, let me revert my changes17:07
johndoigiiidoes nagios send to a list?17:14
johndoigiiior individuals17:14
nkinkadeIt sends to a group.17:14
johndoigiiiI don't care to have the SMS, but I think emails wouldn't hurt, is that possible?17:14
nkinkadeIt can do email and email->SMS ... currently Nathan and I are the only one's who receive these messages.17:14
johndoigiiioh you have google dispatching the sms then?17:15
nkinkadeNo, Nagios just sends emails and most providers have some sort of email->SMS interface.17:15
johndoigiiiahh okay17:15
nkinkadeBut for email, it just goes directly to some account.17:15
nkinkadeDo you want to get email alerts for and staging?17:16
johndoigiiiyeah, I think could be useful too, in the event that neither of you are available I may be of some use17:17
johndoigiiiI can assign a ticket, this isn't of high priority, just curious17:17
akozaknkinkade: do you get those for a6?17:18
nkinkadeakozak: I get them for every service on every server.17:18
nkinkade(well, almost every service)17:18
akozakwow, ok17:18
nkinkadejohndoigiii: Perfect, I'll look for the ticket ... just assign it to me.17:18
johndoigiiicool, thx17:19
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nkinkadejohndoigiii: I've setup the new IP on a9.18:46
johndoigiiiohh, okay, did I not do it correctly?18:47
nkinkadeI've modified /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/ with a config that seemed like it might work, but I haven't restarted Apache.18:47
johndoigiiiohh okay18:47
nkinkadeYou should probably double check what I put in there to see if it fits your needs.18:47
nkinkadeThe config for *:8080 and the SSL vhost will probably be mostly the same.18:48
nkinkadeapache2ctl configtest18:48
nkinkadeDon't forget about that command before you restart Apache.  It won't guarantee that it will start perfectly, but it's a good step in the right direction.18:48
johndoigiiido you normally restart the apache processes?18:49
johndoigiiior does a reload suffice?18:49
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nkinkadereload is all you need.18:49
johndoigiiioh okay18:50
johndoigiiiwhen should you do a restart? what is reload limited to?18:50
johndoigiiii've always wondered that18:51
nkinkadereload|force-reload = $ sudo apache2ctl graceful .... graceful does not abort existing connections, but allows them to complete normally.18:55
nkinkadeA restart just forcefully stops all Apache processes, then restarts Apache.18:55
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nkinkadeThat's my understanding.  reload always seem preferable to me.18:56
Bovinitynkinkade: have you ever experienced apache not properly reloading its config on a "apache2 reload"?18:57
nkinkadeBovinity: Every once in a while I have noticed something like that.  But I always start with reload, then if for whatever unknown reason it didn't implement the configuration, then I restart.18:58
nkinkadeI've noticed that sometime like when adding new PHP modules, for example.18:58
johndoigiiinkinkade: I changed the dns record for on a5 a little over an hour ago so that the staging cname for staging pointed to this new IP, but it still does not appear have registered19:04
johndoigiiihow long does it normally take to propagate?19:05
nkinkadejohndoigiii: Did you increment the serial number?19:05
nkinkadeAnd did you then reload bind?19:05
nkinkadeBeyond that, it may take 3 or 4 hours for it to propagate.19:06
johndoigiiiahh, did not update the serial19:06
nkinkadeYou didn't the section of the config file labeled "NOTES" ;-)19:07
johndoigiiilol no I didn't19:07
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johndoigiiiha very useful19:08
Bovinityjohndoigiii: curry?19:08
johndoigiiiahh thank you, but I brown bagged today19:08
nkinkadejohndoigiii: I'm sure you already know this, but just as a quick reminder, you can always add the IP->name mapping in your /etc/hosts file until DNS converges.19:09
nkinkadeThat way you can start testing immediately.19:10
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akozakBovinity: do you know why OpenEd makes so many connections to on page load?19:55
Bovinityakozak: loading YUI js/css19:55
akozakok, I'm guessing that is used for the nav boxes?19:56
Bovinitysome nav and some SMW i think19:56
Bovinityit could be optimised with a local install of the YUI files, but it's never been much of a problem in the past19:57
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akozakIt just adds a lot of time to the page load.  At some point we're going to need to do an optimization of OpenEd for international communities that have low-bandwidth connections19:58
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akozakalso, I'm getting a 404 for beforeload.js... don't know how important that is19:59
akozakBovinity: sorry, one other thing.  I've made some changes to the SF_main.css for the semantic forms extensions through console.  Should I be documenting these changes somehow?  I don't think it's under version control.20:00
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Bovinityakozak: you're modifying files from the wikimedia svn checkout?20:01
Bovinityyeah, either document, or keep a copy in your home directory, just in case20:01
akozakBovinity: no, from the SemanticForms svn checkout.  I understand it will get overwritten in an update, but Mediawiki:Common.css wasn't working20:01
Bovinityakozak: you could override the css classes in one of the version controlled files in the skin directory though20:02
akozakBovinity: I'm assuming opened.css?20:05
akozakthat will override the extensions' styles?20:05
Bovinityas long as it's loaded after the extension css file, it'll override20:06
johndoigiiiBovinity: random question, but do you or the office have a screen calibrator?20:12
akozakBovinity: so after I make the change I can just do git commit -a or should I just commit the one file?20:17
Bovinityjohndoigiii: no. i'd love to have a Pantone Spyder, but alas.20:17
johndoigiiiha, thats what I was hoping was floating around here somewhere20:17
Bovinityakozak: are there otehr files to commit? (git status)20:17
pyrakso, i need to hold two pieces of information in a cookie.  do we prefer two cookies, or one cookie with some kind of spacer?20:18
akozakBovinity: no just the one20:18
Bovinityakozak: then commit -a is fine20:18
johndoigiiipyrak, I don't think there is any preference, what are you storing excatly?20:18
Bovinitynot that it wouldn't be fine in most other cases, but it's wise to check, and commit piecemeal if necessary20:18
pyrakjohndoigiii, this is for ccsearch: a search engine and a search query20:18
pyraki seem to recall reading somewhere that there's a good reason to only have one cookie for your site, but i forget why20:19
johndoigiiiyeah I would use a single cookie and devise some sheme for the value, eg ""20:19
Bovinitybrowser probably pesters you to accept per-cookie, if told to do so20:20
pyrakBovinity, ah, that's a good reason20:20
Bovinityi think you can store an array in a cookie with no problem...20:21
nkinkadejohndoigiii: Would you have any insight into why these two pages are showing up so differently?:20:24
nkinkadeIs there a syntax error somewhere in the en_HK PO file?20:24
johndoigiiihmm they are certainly different, looking now20:25
akozakBovinity: ok so I pushed out my commit, what else do I need to do?20:29
akozakbe back in a minute20:33
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akozaknkinkade: ok.  i think the calls take up in the hundreds of ms on opened on first page load20:39
nkinkadeIt's been a problem for other CC sites.  That's why I created that ticket.20:39
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akozakwell, especially on opened it will be problematic in developing countries.  opened was designed with accessibility in mind for low bandwidth users20:40
akozakcould be -> may be20:40
akozakor will be -> may be20:40
Bovinitynkinkade: i don't see any reason why we shouldn't host it. i think all our properties incorporate it already.20:42
Bovinityor if they don't, they will eventually20:42
nkinkadeYeah, I think it really slows down page load on a lot of our sites.20:42
nkinkadeI personally site and watch my browser's status bar saying it's waiting on yahooapis.20:43
johndoigiiinkinkade: svn finally finishedupdating and I think I see the problem for the en_HK deed20:44
nkinkadejohndoigiii: I'd be curious to know how you troubleshoot that type of thing.20:44
nkinkadeI wasn't even sure where to begin.20:44
johndoigiiinkinkade: ohh okay20:44
johndoigiiido you have the cc.engine project checked out?20:44
nkinkadeIf it's lengthy, we can always chat on Skype.20:45
johndoigiiiwell then you can run a paster instance locally20:45
johndoigiiipaster will print exceptions to stdout20:45
johndoigiiiand for this instance, it looks like the license name in en_HK is invalid20:46
nkinkadeIn the PO file?20:47
akozaknkinkade: how can I update the opened site with style changes that I've recently committed?20:48
nkinkadeakozak: You'll have to do a git pull from the theme directory.20:48
nkinkadeHave you pushed your changes back to
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akozaknkinkade: yes20:58
nkinkadejohndoigiii: Didn't there used to be a buildout.cfg for local buildouts, e.g., testing?20:58
akozakI'm just not seeing the changes, I thought I remember hearing there was another step after pushing20:58
nkinkadeakozak: ^^^20:59
nkinkadeDid you pull on the live site?20:59
nkinkadebin/buildout is complaining like this: IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/UniConvertor-1.1.2.egg-info'21:00
akozaknkinkade: I'm pretty sure I pulled from the live site (there isn't an opened staging as far as I know).  And then I committed and pushed my changes back, and it shows up on the log21:01
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nkinkadeakozak: But have you logged into a6, cd'd to /var/www/ and then done a 'git pull'21:03
johndoigiiihmm, nkinkade I am not sure why buildout isn't handling that dependency, do you have that library installed already? `apt-cache policy python-uniconvertor` assuming your using debian21:06
akozaknkinkade: wants a password for pulling from code.creativecommons.org21:06
johndoigiiiakozak: you need to set up your key there21:06
akozakjohndoigiii: even if i'm pulling from a6?21:07
johndoigiiinkinkade, if you don't care about system-wide python packages then try apt installing then trying to buildout again21:08
nkinkadejohndoigiii: There appear to be a bunch of broken symlinks in /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/ that point to old version of things.21:08
johndoigiiiohh okay21:08
nkinkadeIt looks like some process isn't cleaning up in there.21:08
johndoigiiiakozak: are you on a6? trying to update the opened folder there?21:08
akozakjohndoigiii: yes21:08
akozakjust the skin21:08
nkinkadeakozak: In order pull to a6, your user on a6 has to connect to code@cc, it must do that with a public key.21:09
johndoigiiithen yes, you will need to be added to the gitosis config for your user account on a621:09
nkinkadeYour user on a6 needs to have public key setup for git.21:09
johndoigiiiakozak: I can add you real quick, whats your username on a6?21:09
nkinkadeCreate public key on a6 with ssh-keygen21:09
akozakjohndoigiii: akozak21:09
nkinkadethen send it to me and I'll add it for you.21:09
nkinkadeFor some reason building-out cc.engine is always a major ordeal.21:12
nkinkadeJust about everything related to cc.engine is a major ordeal.  I can't wait until all this is simplified and streamlined.21:13
johndoigiiinkinkade: yeah tell me about21:13
akozaknkinkade: sent21:14
johndoigiiithe svn externals for cc.engine are structured in a very confusing manner21:15
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johndoigiiimecredis: if you wanna chat before it gets too late over there let me know21:15
mecredisyeah, was about to wrap up my day21:16
johndoigiiiwe can postpone until tomorrow if you'd like21:16
mecredisno, totally happy to do it now21:16
mecrediswas going to ping you anyway21:16
johndoigiiinkinkade: hey, license_xsl says 3.0 for en_HK is invalid21:17
nkinkadethe HK licenses have been launched for about 8 months.21:18
nkinkadeakozak: Give your pull on a6 another shot.21:18
akozaknkinkade: success!21:19
nkinkadeCool.  Sorry about the hassle.21:19
Bovinitymecredis: just saw your slide #24. crazy.21:20
mecredisyeah, I got all obsessive21:21
mecredisI hope that's not problematic for you21:21
Bovinitytomas is working on some sweet slide designs21:22
mecredisyeah, the graph I generated via google spread sheet / charts21:24
mecredisIt can be styled to some extent21:25
mecredisbut I'm not sure the best way of doing that21:25
Bovinityi might export it out as an svg, and adjust it in a more civilised manner21:25
mecredisoh ok21:25
mecredisthink its a png21:25
nkinkadejohndoigiii: Now I'm getting: Error: Couldn't find a distribution for 'ctypes'.21:25
nkinkadeI seem to recall I had a workaround for this issue, but can't remember what/where.21:26
johndoigiiiI get the same thing, I had to manually install ctypes21:26
johndoigiiibut i'm on mac, there should be a deb package for it (if you dont mind system-wide)21:26
nkinkadejohndoigiii: I usuall prefer system-wide.  I installed python-ctypes, but I still get that error.21:31
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johndoigiiinkinkade, hmm peek into the buildout script and make sure it has your system site-packages in the sys.path21:35
nkinkadeOh, I just found where I had worked around this issue before: cc.license_/setup.py21:36
nkinkadeI comment out ctypes in under install_requires21:36
nkinkadejohndoigiii: I think the reason for this was that ctypes is included in python2.5, and there's no need for a package, so you can just comment that line out if you're using 2.5.21:37
nkinkadeIt's only needed for 2.421:37
johndoigiiiahh I see, for cc.license21:41
nkinkadeGod almighty, cc.engine just built.  It's a miracle.21:43
nkinkadeSyntaxError: invalid syntax (, line 285)21:44
nkinkadeThe backtrace is enormous.21:45
nkinkadeAny idea what that means?  Ever seen it?21:45
johndoigiiinkinkade, yeah the backtrace for paster is almost impossible to decipher21:45
johndoigiiiwhere is
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nkinkadenkinkade@npk:/var/www/cc/cc.engine/trunk$ find . -name back35.py21:47
nkinkadeJust before the last line of the backtrack is this: ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/home/nkinkade/cc/devel/cc.engine/trunk/eggs/", line 10.4-14.1021:47
nkinkadeSo perhaps it's /eggs/
nkinkadeLine 285 of that file has some syntax like: with =21:48
nkinkadeI've never seen that, but granted I'm not experience with python.21:48
nkinkadeDoes your's have that?21:49
johndoigiiiyes it does21:49
johndoigiiiwith is a new python statement21:49
johndoigiiiat the top of that file try adding "from __future__ import with"21:50
johndoigiiijust to see if thats the problem21:50
johndoigiiiotherwise make sure you that you have python2.5 selected and not 2.4 as your /usr/bin/python21:50
nkinkadeI've actually got python
nkinkadeCould that be an issue?21:52
nkinkadeBovinity: So I just discovered that the issue with Ubercart is that our theme is missing a critical component, a line that reads <?php print $scripts; ?>21:54
nkinkadejohndoigiii: I changed the bash magic at the top of bin/cc_engine to be #!/usr/bin/python2.5, but now I get a TypeError on launch.21:54
nkinkadeAt least it's different.21:55
nkinkadeBovinity: Is the support2009 theme based on any standard Drupal theme?21:55
Bovinitynkinkade: nope21:55
nkinkadeI'd like to find out where it diverged, where that line got removed.21:55
Bovinitythe civicrm guys wrote the theme originally21:56
Bovinityi rewrote for the redesign21:56
johndoigiiinkinkade: yeah 2.6.2 may create some different behavior, because I think the __future__ modules were added in prep for 3.021:56
nkinkadeHmmm.  Any advice on what to do?21:56
nkinkadeBovinity: And were the changes ever in svn or have they always been in git?21:57
nkinkadeI feel like we moved them to git recently.21:57
Bovinitynkinkade: it's possible when i revised for the recent redesign i missed print $scripts21:57
Bovinityyou should be able to step through the git repo of the theme21:58
Bovinityit has a branch with the old layout21:58
johndoigiiinkinkade, I would start over and make sure your buildout is generated with whichever python bin you want to use22:02
nkinkadeThat makes sense.  I'll give it a go.22:03
johndoigiiiI use 2.5.2 fwiw22:03
johndoigiii"/usr/bin/python2.5;./bin/buildout -v"22:04
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johndoigiiisometime buildout will fail for dependencies fetched over SVN, but verbose seems to resolve that for some odd reason so I always use that flag as a precaution22:05
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isforinsectspaulproteus: you around?22:20
nkinkadejohndoigiii: For future reference, building out with 2.6.x won't work.  When I re-built out with 2.5 cc.engine worked.  Now after all these hoops I can take a quick look at en_HK.22:26
johndoigiiinkinkade: great thats good to know22:27
nkinkadeDoes this mean I'll have to specify those bizarre URLs to access the local instance?22:28
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johndoigiiisigh, yes22:30
johndoigiiifor full functionality, yes22:30
nkinkadejohndoigiii: Could you give me an example one?22:30
nkinkadeI'm looking at the rewrite rules, but I must have got something wrong.22:31
johndoigiiiyeah I am looking at the rewrites too22:31
johndoigiiilooking for the deed.XX rewite in particular22:31
johndoigiiiidk, but what you can do to get the deed.en_HK is to append ?locale=en_HK to the url22:33
nkinkadeThat seems to work, but there are no stylesheets.22:33
nkinkadeAnd I get no output from cc.engine when I access that URL.22:34
nkinkadeDo I need to pass a special flag to make it more verbose?  How did you determine the potential problem earlier?22:35
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johndoigiiiyou aren't getting CSS?22:36
johndoigiiior the images are missing?22:36
johndoigiiion the deeds22:36
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akozaknkinkade: so I just met with Ahrash and Lee-sean, one of our interns, and we were discussing a lot of design changes to OpenEd.  How labor intensive would it be to create a staging version of OpenEd?22:39
akozakBovinity this relates to you too :)22:39
nkinkadeakozak: It wouldn't be very hard.22:40
nkinkadeJust tell me what you want it named.22:40
Bovinityakozak: i hope there will be some distilled notes22:40
nkinkadeBut for the theme you should create a separate branch.22:40
akozakBovinity: yes, nothing was firmly decided on though22:40
akozaknkinkade: would it be able to pull data from the database?22:41
nkinkadeakozak: it could.22:41
akozake.g. would it require a separate database22:41
nkinkadeWe usually run another intance of the db, though.22:41
nkinkadeBut there's no reason that it couldn't run from the same db.22:41
nkinkadeWe run most things on a separate db just in case something we do fucks up the database.22:42
akozakI don't think it would make a huge difference either way.  The main reason to have it connected in to the db is that we'd be styling things that depend on that data in some cases.22:42
akozaklike when creating a semantic form22:42
nkinkadeBut if you're just doing theme changes, then I can't see there would be much risk.22:42
akozakBovinity: I can loop you in to our design issues if you'd like.  My assumption was that you didn't want to get involved in the smaller design decisions like checkbox formatting22:43
Bovinityakozak: just keep me in the loop with changes - proposed or otherwise22:44
akozakBovinity: ok will do22:44
akozaknkinkade: so refresh my memory... opened is basically just a checkout of mediawiki 1.14 w/ extensions and the theme22:45
nkinkadeakozak: You should probably create an account for yourself here:
nkinkadeThen you could be "nosy" on tickets like this one:
nkinkadeakozak: We'll just cp -a the live site to some demo area.22:48
akozaknkinkade: I do have an acct there22:48
akozaknkinkade: cclearn has it's own issue tracker, which is problematic for me because I've been doing non-code and code things on the site22:49
nkinkadeWell you can make yourself nosy on that other ticket if you want.22:50
nkinkadeI'll get to it tomorrow morning sometime.22:50
akozakOk, not extremely urgent.22:50
akozaknkinkade: would copying over all the files preserve the extensions?22:50
akozakI could always reinstall them22:51
akozaknkinkade: that's a still question.  what i meant was would it preserve the svn data22:52
nkinkadeakozak: Yeah.  cp -a will copy everything.23:04
nkinkadesubversion doesn't care what you call the container directory.23:04
nkinkadeNor does git.23:05
akozakok so it would operate exactly the same except on a branch of the theme?23:05
akozakand presumably with some modified settings for the domain23:05
akozaknathany posted some thoughts on a branch too23:06
pyraknkinkade, who is making the final decision about which search engines are included in ccsearch?23:06
akozakerr, on a staging23:06
Bovinityjust branch ahab, it'll Just Work?23:06
pyraki know that nyergler mentioned that we may want to replace owl with jamendo23:06
pyrakwhich i went ahead and did23:06
nkinkadepyrak: It has been my impression that the search engine we include have something to do with the board and corporate donors.23:10
nkinkadei.e., not selected at random or necessarily for their usefulness.23:11
Bovinitythey were selected based on CC integration23:11
nkinkadeBut there's more to it than that.23:11
Bovinityalso space limitations based on the tabs23:11
nkinkadeI would bounce any major changes of Nathan and Mike.23:11
Bovinitysearch hasn't been updated in years - other than ongoing i18n work23:11
pyrakBovinity, well it's about to get updated :)23:12
nkinkadeI suggested we ditch, but when I did it was clear that there were more reasons for it being there that it's usefulness.23:12
nkinkadepyrak: That's fine.  Like I say, I'd just ping Nathan and Mike on any changes unless they explicitly told you to make a change.23:13
pyraknkinkade, roger that23:13
pyrakany idea what's going on here?: img id ="stat" src="transparent.gif?init"/>23:26
pyrakfound in footer of ccsearch23:26
Bovinityit implies access tracking...23:28
Bovinitynot mine. maybe asheesh was testing something.23:29
pyraki'd like to comment it out, because it's keeping the page from validating23:29
johndoigiiipyrak: its an IE hack I think23:30
johndoigiiilook at rev 3932 in ccsearch23:31
Bovinitydoesn't explain why it's in the footer23:33
Bovinitythat's something different to the IE-Fucking-Sucks hack23:34
pyrakif it's an ie hack, perhaps we can use js to make it only display on ie?23:35
pyrakor better yet, we could use php to do that23:36
Bovinityunless there's some JS that refers to #stat or something that relates to transparent.gif?init, it's safe to remove23:36
pyrakwell, there's which refers to it i think23:37
pyrakno idea what it does tho23:37
Bovinitypngie is the IE hack, unrelated to the img tag you're referring to23:37
pyrakdo you guys ever write test harnesses when you code stuff?23:39
pyrakdo people actually do that, or is that just something professors use to torture you?23:39
pyrakalso, asheesh made me promise that if i got this internship i would write a test harness for everything that i coded.23:40
johndoigiiipyrak: ha yes, test everything23:45
pyrakjohndoigiii, of course i've been testing my code, but writing a whole test harness is different from just testing pieces manually23:46
pyrakfwiw, i'm writing a test harness anyway, and it's going to kick ass.  but i was jw if that was something that was generally "done"23:46
johndoigiiiyes, it should be done.  are you testing PHP?23:48
pyrakjohndoigiii, yes23:59

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