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| henrik__ | I will be using a cc license with my framework, but I have an application that I really need closed down tight. I´ve hired an additional developer, so I need some kind of insurance that he does´nt leek or use the code elsewhere. Anyone know what to do? | 08:43 |
|---|---|---|
| henrik__ | I don´t think he will :) but I would just like to have it on paper | 08:44 |
| paulproteus | henrik__, I don't really understand what you're talking about. | 08:45 |
| paulproteus | Plus I'm going to go to bed. | 08:45 |
| paulproteus | But I'll be awake in 8-9h. | 08:45 |
| henrik__ | heh.. Ok. I´ll come back later | 08:46 |
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| hdworak | hi | 09:19 |
| hdworak | I'm doing $ paster serve --reload development.ini | 09:20 |
| hdworak | then I'm modifying some templates, I hit "refresh" in a browser - and old content is preserved | 09:20 |
| hdworak | any idea of what's going on? (no, it's no browser cache) | 09:20 |
| hdworak | :) | 09:21 |
| hdworak | henrik__: why do you use cc license for software? | 09:21 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, templates aren't reloaded automatically; kill and restart the paster | 09:24 |
| hdworak | I've tried, same result | 09:25 |
| hdworak | I turn the app down, I get "No connection to host" in the browser, I start the server again, same old content | 09:25 |
| hdworak | it seems to me like it's using some kind of an egg from a build or something | 09:26 |
| hdworak | I remove a template, kill, run again, the content is still there | 09:27 |
| hdworak | :) | 09:27 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, Look for *.pyc files in the template dir. | 09:28 |
| paulproteus | Nuke them instead. | 09:28 |
| paulproteus | But bedtime now. | 09:28 |
| hdworak | yeah, g'nite | 09:29 |
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| hdworak | license.rdf/licenses is 343 MB... | 10:20 |
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| hdworak | if we drop cc.license, libvalidator basically would require only pyRdfa and rdflib (since html5lib is required by pyRdfa) | 14:13 |
| hdworak | validator is just a Web interface to libvalidator - right now it seems to me that Pylons+Genhi+SQLAlchemy is an overkill | 14:14 |
| hdworak | that, and 343 MB from license.rdf and we end up with 438 MB for validator + its dependencies | 14:15 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: how about mod_wsgi+rdflib+pyRdfa for the whole Web application? | 14:16 |
| hdworak | rdflib is also required by pyRdfa | 14:17 |
| hdworak | so we would end up with mod_wsgi and pyRdfa as only first-level dependencies, html5lib and rdflib being the second-level dependencies | 14:19 |
| hdworak | html5lib+pyRdfa+rdflib eggs are approx. 941 kB in total | 14:20 |
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| hdworak | ok, the reason for caching was the existence of ~/.python/lib/python2.5/site-packages/validator-0.0.0dev-py2.5.egg - once that file was deleted, the contents of the Web application refreshes gracefully | 15:23 |
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| hdworak | nathany: hi. sorry to e-mail you about the internship on your private e-mail (I've looked it up in your CV) | 15:45 |
| nathany | hdworak: no problem! | 15:45 |
| nathany | i barely noticed since there's lots of cross over :) | 15:45 |
| nathany | sorry we couldn't accomodate your schedule :( | 15:46 |
| hdworak | = no reason to submit the app? | 15:46 |
| nathany | it sounds like your schedule is pretty firm (ie, unable to begin until mid july) so it's probably not worth your time | 15:47 |
| nathany | that said, if something changes here i'll be sure to let you know right away | 15:47 |
| hdworak | is cc applying for GSoC this year (should be done March 9-13)? | 15:47 |
| nathany | yup, I hope we'll be participating | 15:48 |
| hdworak | well, maybe I'll fix my schedule next year and apply then | 15:48 |
| hdworak | thank you for making things clear | 15:49 |
| nathany | sure, no problem | 15:50 |
| hdworak | GSoC is also adjusted to an American academic year, but fortunately, the work is remote :) | 15:50 |
| hdworak | oh, I've just received your mail | 15:51 |
| nathany | :) | 15:58 |
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| nathany | paulproteus: SYN | 17:02 |
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| paulproteus | nathany, ACK | 17:11 |
| nathany | paulproteus: morning | 17:12 |
| nathany | what's your day look like (office-wise)? | 17:12 |
| nathany | johndoigiii is here and I think we're going to go over some cc.net stuff... just trying to think about the day as a whole | 17:12 |
| paulproteus | Let me take a look. | 17:14 |
| paulproteus | I was planning to do some phone calls from 10 to noon, but I can be in the office and at your disposal at and after noon. | 17:15 |
| nathany | paulproteus: sounds good | 17:18 |
| paulproteus | Great. | 17:20 |
| paulproteus | nathany, Eating breakfast, tty in a bit. | 17:20 |
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| nathany | hey johndoigiii | 18:05 |
| nathany | i think jen is going to go over some office stuff, paperwork with you first | 18:05 |
| nathany | then we should talk about general tech stuff here (license metadata, etc) and dig into the cc.net stuff from last week a bit | 18:05 |
| johndoigiii | Okay, sounds good | 18:06 |
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| nathany | paulproteus: do i recall correctly that there's a gotcha wrt git-svn if you want to create a brand new development branch locally in git and when you push wind up with a new branch in svn | 18:14 |
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| paulproteus | brb phone | 18:24 |
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| hdworak | paulproteus: hi. have you read my msgs about "license.rdf/licenses is 343 MB" and the mod_wsgi proposal? | 18:34 |
| hdworak | do you have any preferred Python documentation generator at CC? | 18:38 |
| paulproteus | Ask nathany (I'm still on the phone) | 18:41 |
| nathany | hdworak: sphinx | 18:41 |
| hdworak | ok, thnx, and do you have any code formatting guidelines? like indent size etc. (Python again) | 18:43 |
| nathany | hdworak: not in particular; I tend to like whatever emacs python-mode does by default (indent of 4, i believe) | 18:44 |
| hdworak | nathany: ok :) | 18:45 |
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| paulproteus | greg-g, ping | 19:02 |
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| raps | lo | 19:20 |
| paulproteus | nathany, When's lunchtime, do you think? (Any chance it can be a bit after noon, like 12:20?) | 19:24 |
| nathany | uh | 19:24 |
| nathany | sure... i have 1p call | 19:24 |
| nathany | are you asking because you're bringing food or because you want to travel out with us to get food? | 19:26 |
| paulproteus | Bringing. | 19:26 |
| paulproteus | I'll be there by then, then (still on phone here). Make whatever plans are most reasonable. | 19:26 |
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| Bovinity | are you scheduling a Tartine run? | 19:32 |
| paulproteus | Ooh, I could. | 19:33 |
| paulproteus | I was going to just get a burrito, though. | 19:33 |
| paulproteus | But lunchtime and probably long lines approach, I'd guess. | 19:33 |
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| TRD | +help | 19:57 |
| TRD | cchelpbot ping | 19:58 |
| cchelpbot | pong | 19:58 |
| TRD | +list | 19:58 |
| TRD | !list | 19:58 |
| TRD | @list | 19:58 |
| cchelpbot | TRD: Admin, Channel, ChannelLogger, Config, Misc, Owner, and User | 19:58 |
| greg-g | paulproteus: pong for good measure | 20:04 |
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| paulproteus | nathany, syn | 20:10 |
| paulproteus | See you in ca. 15m | 20:11 |
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| Hattmannen | Hi! A question: If I decide to release an application under a CC license (as opposed to GPL or some similar software license), do I need to make the source avalible? | 21:10 |
| paulproteus | Hattmannen, CC licenses are not recommended for software. | 21:10 |
| paulproteus | Why would you do that? | 21:10 |
| robmyers | it depends on the format of the application. and what paulproteus said. | 21:11 |
| Hattmannen | Well, why not? It's really simple and pretty much says what terms I want my applications to be released under. | 21:11 |
| paulproteus | Which license, out of curiosity? | 21:11 |
| paulproteus | The tragedy is your program wouldn't be compatible with the bulk of Free Software/open source programs, and if it's non-free couldn't be put into Ubuntu, Debian, or Fedora (or other distributions that emphasize software freedom). | 21:12 |
| Hattmannen | CC by-nc-sa 3.0 | 21:12 |
| Hattmannen | Ah. | 21:12 |
| robmyers | erk | 21:12 |
| robmyers | nc is not free software or open source | 21:13 |
| Hattmannen | So what would you recomend? | 21:13 |
| * ianweller recommends the GPL. | 21:13 | |
| mattl | yeah, GNU GPLv3 would be the closest thing to CC-BY-SA 3.0 for software. | 21:14 |
| robmyers | the GPL is the gold standard for free software | 21:14 |
| Hattmannen | I've thought about the GPL. But doesn't the GPL imply that I have to release the source, as do anyone who wants to use my code for something else? | 21:14 |
| ianweller | well, yeah. that's what makes it free software | 21:14 |
| robmyers | and in theory it will prevent commercial competition by reducing the cost of competing software close to zero | 21:14 |
| Hattmannen | What I want is pretty much a license that says: 1. Anyone may use my software as they please, but not for commercial purposes. | 21:15 |
| Hattmannen | 2. If they make a derivative of it, I want to be credited for what they've taken from my software. | 21:16 |
| robmyers | the gpl maintains credits in source | 21:16 |
| robmyers | but why do you wish to preclude commercial use? | 21:17 |
| ianweller | "but not for commerical purposes" <-- good luck | 21:17 |
| Hattmannen | robmyers: True. I just don't want anyone using my code to be required to release their code. | 21:17 |
| mattl | Hattmannen: so why not for commercial purposes? | 21:17 |
| ianweller | "I just don't want anyone using my code to be required to release their code." -- then that's not sharealike and you want the BSD license, iirc | 21:18 |
| Hattmannen | Beacuse I feel that if anyone use something I released for free (as in beer), they ought to do the same thing. If they don't want to do that, there will surely be many other alternatives to use. | 21:19 |
| robmyers | hattmannen ok then use the LGPL | 21:19 |
| Hattmannen | ianweller: Oh. Thanks. | 21:19 |
| robmyers | that doesn't require disclosure of code that uses your code unless it statically links it | 21:19 |
| ianweller | or LGPL yeah | 21:20 |
| robmyers | hattmannen but the GPL specifically requires that people who use your code release their code with the same freedoms | 21:20 |
| robmyers | so if you want users of your code to return the favor, that's the GPL | 21:20 |
| robmyers | if you want them to not have to, that's the LGPL or (and I don't recommend it) BSD | 21:21 |
| Hattmannen | robmyers: Ok. I'll take a look at the BSD license as well. | 21:21 |
| * ianweller accidentally recommended bsd hehe | 21:21 | |
| Hattmannen | So I should take a look at the LGPL then. | 21:21 |
| ianweller | yeah. | 21:21 |
| Hattmannen | Thanks alot. Hope I didn't seem too daft. | 21:21 |
| ianweller | :) | 21:22 |
| robmyers | hattmannen do please consider the gpl. it's cool ;-) | 21:22 |
| paulproteus | Hattmannen, I'm glad you swung by and asked! | 21:23 |
| Hattmannen | robmyers: I would probably generally go with the GPL, but in this case it's just some quickly hacked-together stuff, and I wouldn't want anyone else to look bad because of my code. | 21:24 |
| ianweller | Hattmannen: oh but that's why free software exists. so others can improve it, and give it back to you :) | 21:24 |
| robmyers | yeah, let people build on your work | 21:25 |
| robmyers | it's good for you and good for them | 21:25 |
| Hattmannen | ianweller: Exactly. I just don't feel like cleaning up my code. ;-) | 21:25 |
| robmyers | sure, so release it and let the hive mind improve it ;-) | 21:25 |
| ianweller | i always release crappy code. mainly cuz i can't code | 21:26 |
| Hattmannen | I'm working on an ID3 tagging application. That will be released under the GPL when it's done. | 21:26 |
| Hattmannen | Thanks for your help! I'll go with the LGPL for my ugly-hacks(tm). ;-) | 21:30 |
| robmyers | NOOOOOOOOO! ;-) | 21:31 |
| paulproteus | Yay! LGPL is compatible with most of the world's Free Software! (And robmyers is a GPL lover but secretly likes the LGPL too.) | 21:32 |
| mattl | ianweller: how do i install python2.3 on your hippy OS. | 21:32 |
| ianweller | mattl: uhhhhhhhhhhhh. | 21:32 |
| robmyers | heh | 21:32 |
| ianweller | i think we have compat packages for 2.4 but not 2.3 | 21:33 |
| ianweller | we're too new for that | 21:33 |
| ianweller | we have 2.6 in F11 ;) | 21:33 |
| mattl | damn. | 21:33 |
| * mattl cries | 21:33 | |
| mattl | why oh why. | 21:33 |
| ianweller | what do you even need it for? | 21:33 |
| mattl | zope 2.7 ffs | 21:33 |
| ianweller | ouch | 21:33 |
| ianweller | yeah | 21:34 |
| ianweller | gregdek wanted me to originally package some zope plugins for fedora but that failed after i learned that ummm dependencies and incompatabilities were not fun | 21:34 |
| mattl | yeah, it's really really old | 21:35 |
| ianweller | something that old is bound to have security issues ;) | 21:36 |
| paulproteus | w00t, let's leave our users helpless rather than deal with packaging issues! | 21:38 |
| * paulproteus ducks | 21:38 | |
| mattl | haha | 21:38 |
| ianweller | paulproteus: i'm not the guy to say :) | 21:38 |
| ianweller | blame canada^Wfesco | 21:38 |
| mattl | its true. ianweller is basically a sockpuppet for red hat ;) | 21:38 |
| * ianweller goes to see if the bill acceptor in the library works | 21:39 | |
| ianweller | i neeeed a dr. pepper :( | 21:39 |
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| hdworak | the guy had to go dual license - BSD for non-commerical and EULA for commercial | 21:56 |
| * hdworak does not understand the purpose of BSD/MIT at all | 21:56 | |
| hdworak | imho it's all about self-promotion and big ego | 21:57 |
| hdworak | :) | 21:57 |
| hdworak | why don't ppl release their software into public domain | 21:57 |
| hdworak | and instead use nasty BSD/MIT licenses | 21:57 |
| hdworak | SQLite for the win | 21:57 |
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| robmyers | public domain and bsd/mit don't protect user freedom | 22:03 |
| robmyers | but this is a CC channel, not a free software one ;-) | 22:03 |
| Bovinity | CC and curry. | 22:03 |
| mattl | robmyers: s/mit/X11 license. | 22:03 |
| robmyers | ah they're all the same | 22:04 |
| robmyers | OW! | 22:04 |
| robmyers | OK yes I see your point | 22:04 |
| mattl | yes. | 22:13 |
| * ianweller wants open source print cartridges | 22:15 | |
| mattl | ianweller: free print cartridges? | 22:16 |
| greg-g | big F or small f? | 22:16 |
| ianweller | free as in freedom print cartridges. | 22:19 |
| robmyers | none of the fixed time outs | 22:24 |
| robmyers | that's more maker freedom, but it does touch on software freedom because it's effected through software | 22:24 |
| robmyers | err CC channel. oops. | 22:25 |
| nathany | johndoigiii: https://creativecommons.net/nathan/ | 22:26 |
| mattl | nathany: does your surname begin with a y? | 22:27 |
| nathany | mattl: yes :) | 22:27 |
| nathany | "yergler" | 22:27 |
| paulproteus | Plus he's very Nathany. | 22:27 |
| mattl | thats how i read it. | 22:28 |
| Bovinity | he's the nathanyest | 22:28 |
| nathany | johndoigiii: http://labs.creativecommons.org/~nathan/info/decoupling.html | 22:29 |
| paulproteus | Nathan Zest. | 22:30 |
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| hdworak | robmyers: you're absolutely right, sorry for the off-topic | 22:36 |
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| robmyers | I was talking about me ;-) | 22:37 |
| hdworak | :) | 22:37 |
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| hdworak | bye | 22:39 |
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| johndoigiii | anyone know of the Mac eq of 'adduser' | 23:44 |
| johndoigiii | ...trying to add a user to a group | 23:44 |
| paulproteus | johndoigiii, groupmod iirc | 23:45 |
| paulproteus | But then again, it uses the weird local Apple Directory Services thing. | 23:45 |
| paulproteus | So in that case, I'm not so sure. | 23:45 |
| johndoigiii | alrighty | 23:45 |
| johndoigiii | i'll give it a shot, thx | 23:45 |
| ianweller | and that's why i don't use macs anymore | 23:45 |
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| johndoigiii | groupmod isn't on my path, are you sure its still used before I search for it? | 23:46 |
| paulproteus | johndoigiii, That's the old-skool UNIXism. I have no idea if Apple still (or ever) uses/used it. )-: | 23:47 |
| paulproteus | I'd just Google the issue. | 23:48 |
| johndoigiii | i have, unsuccessful | 23:48 |
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| paulproteus | http://www.osxfaq.com/tips/unix-tricks/week91/friday.ws | 23:49 |
| paulproteus | I searched [os-x add user unix-group] | 23:49 |
| johndoigiii | haha <-- reading right now | 23:49 |
| paulproteus | (-: | 23:49 |
| paulproteus | NetInfo, that's the name of it. | 23:50 |
| paulproteus | That's the key word to look for. | 23:50 |
| johndoigiii | ahh thank you | 23:51 |
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