Monday, 2009-03-02

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henrik__I will be using a cc license with my framework, but I have an application that I really need closed down tight. I´ve hired an additional developer, so I need some kind of insurance that he does´nt leek or use the code elsewhere. Anyone know what to do?08:43
henrik__I don´t think he will :) but I would just like to have it on paper08:44
paulproteushenrik__, I don't really understand what you're talking about.08:45
paulproteusPlus I'm going to go to bed.08:45
paulproteusBut I'll be awake in 8-9h.08:45
henrik__heh.. Ok. I´ll come back later08:46
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hdworakI'm doing $ paster serve --reload development.ini09:20
hdworakthen I'm modifying some templates, I hit "refresh" in a browser - and old content is preserved09:20
hdworakany idea of what's going on? (no, it's no browser cache)09:20
hdworakhenrik__: why do you use cc license for software?09:21
paulproteushdworak, templates aren't reloaded automatically; kill and restart the paster09:24
hdworakI've tried, same result09:25
hdworakI turn the app down, I get "No connection to host" in the browser, I start the server again, same old content09:25
hdworakit seems to me like it's using some kind of an egg from a build or something09:26
hdworakI remove a template, kill, run again, the content is still there09:27
paulproteushdworak, Look for *.pyc files in the template dir.09:28
paulproteusNuke them instead.09:28
paulproteusBut bedtime now.09:28
hdworakyeah, g'nite09:29
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hdworaklicense.rdf/licenses is 343 MB...10:20
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hdworakif we drop cc.license, libvalidator basically would require only pyRdfa and rdflib (since html5lib is required by pyRdfa)14:13
hdworakvalidator is just a Web interface to libvalidator - right now it seems to me that Pylons+Genhi+SQLAlchemy is an overkill14:14
hdworakthat, and 343 MB from license.rdf and we end up with 438 MB for validator + its dependencies14:15
hdworakpaulproteus: how about mod_wsgi+rdflib+pyRdfa for the whole Web application?14:16
hdworakrdflib is also required by pyRdfa14:17
hdworakso we would end up with mod_wsgi and pyRdfa as only first-level dependencies, html5lib and rdflib being the second-level dependencies14:19
hdworakhtml5lib+pyRdfa+rdflib eggs are approx. 941 kB in total14:20
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hdworakok, the reason for caching was the existence of ~/.python/lib/python2.5/site-packages/validator-0.0.0dev-py2.5.egg - once that file was deleted, the contents of the Web application refreshes gracefully15:23
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hdworaknathany: hi. sorry to e-mail you about the internship on your private e-mail (I've looked it up in your CV)15:45
nathanyhdworak: no problem!15:45
nathanyi barely noticed since there's lots of cross over :)15:45
nathanysorry we couldn't accomodate your schedule :(15:46
hdworak= no reason to submit the app?15:46
nathanyit sounds like your schedule is pretty firm (ie, unable to begin until mid july) so it's probably not worth your time15:47
nathanythat said, if something changes here i'll be sure to let you know right away15:47
hdworakis cc applying for GSoC this year (should be done March 9-13)?15:47
nathanyyup, I hope we'll be participating15:48
hdworakwell, maybe I'll fix my schedule next year and apply then15:48
hdworakthank you for making things clear15:49
nathanysure, no problem15:50
hdworakGSoC is also adjusted to an American academic year, but fortunately, the work is remote :)15:50
hdworakoh, I've just received your mail15:51
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nathanypaulproteus: SYN17:02
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paulproteusnathany, ACK17:11
nathanypaulproteus: morning17:12
nathanywhat's your day look like (office-wise)?17:12
nathanyjohndoigiii is here and I think we're going to go over some stuff... just trying to think about the day as a whole17:12
paulproteusLet me take a look.17:14
paulproteusI was planning to do some phone calls from 10 to noon, but I can be in the office and at your disposal at and after noon.17:15
nathanypaulproteus: sounds good17:18
paulproteusnathany, Eating breakfast, tty in a bit.17:20
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nathanyhey johndoigiii18:05
nathanyi think jen is going to go over some office stuff, paperwork with you first18:05
nathanythen we should talk about general tech stuff here (license metadata, etc) and dig into the stuff from last week a bit18:05
johndoigiiiOkay, sounds good18:06
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nathanypaulproteus: do i recall correctly that there's a gotcha wrt git-svn if you want to create a brand new development branch locally in git and when you push wind up with a new branch in svn18:14
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paulproteusbrb phone18:24
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hdworakpaulproteus: hi. have you read my msgs about "license.rdf/licenses is 343 MB" and the mod_wsgi proposal?18:34
hdworakdo you have any preferred Python documentation generator at CC?18:38
paulproteusAsk nathany (I'm still on the phone)18:41
nathanyhdworak: sphinx18:41
hdworakok, thnx, and do you have any code formatting guidelines? like indent size etc. (Python again)18:43
nathanyhdworak: not in particular; I tend to like whatever emacs python-mode does by default (indent of 4, i believe)18:44
hdworaknathany: ok :)18:45
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paulproteusgreg-g, ping19:02
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paulproteusnathany, When's lunchtime, do you think? (Any chance it can be a bit after noon, like 12:20?)19:24
nathanysure... i have 1p call19:24
nathanyare you asking because you're bringing food or because you want to travel out with us to get food?19:26
paulproteusI'll be there by then, then (still on phone here). Make whatever plans are most reasonable.19:26
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Bovinityare you scheduling a Tartine run?19:32
paulproteusOoh, I could.19:33
paulproteusI was going to just get a burrito, though.19:33
paulproteusBut lunchtime and probably long lines approach, I'd guess.19:33
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TRDcchelpbot ping19:58
cchelpbotTRD: Admin, Channel, ChannelLogger, Config, Misc, Owner, and User19:58
greg-gpaulproteus: pong for good measure20:04
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paulproteusnathany, syn20:10
paulproteusSee you in ca. 15m20:11
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HattmannenHi! A question: If I decide to release an application under a CC license (as opposed to GPL or some similar software license), do I need to make the source avalible?21:10
paulproteusHattmannen, CC licenses are not recommended for software.21:10
paulproteusWhy would you do that?21:10
robmyersit depends on the format of the application. and what paulproteus said.21:11
HattmannenWell, why not? It's really simple and pretty much says what terms I want my applications to be released under.21:11
paulproteusWhich license, out of curiosity?21:11
paulproteusThe tragedy is your program wouldn't be compatible with the bulk of Free Software/open source programs, and if it's non-free couldn't be put into Ubuntu, Debian, or Fedora (or other distributions that emphasize software freedom).21:12
HattmannenCC by-nc-sa 3.021:12
robmyersnc is not free software or open source21:13
HattmannenSo what would you recomend?21:13
* ianweller recommends the GPL.21:13
mattlyeah, GNU GPLv3 would be the closest thing to CC-BY-SA 3.0 for software.21:14
robmyersthe GPL is the gold standard for free software21:14
HattmannenI've thought about the GPL. But doesn't the GPL imply that I have to release the source, as do anyone who wants to use my code for something else?21:14
ianwellerwell, yeah. that's what makes it free software21:14
robmyersand in theory it will prevent commercial competition by reducing the cost of competing software close to zero21:14
HattmannenWhat I want is pretty much a license that says: 1. Anyone may use my software as they please, but not for commercial purposes.21:15
Hattmannen2. If they make a derivative of it, I want to be credited for what they've taken from my software.21:16
robmyersthe gpl maintains credits in source21:16
robmyersbut why do you wish to preclude commercial use?21:17
ianweller"but not for commerical purposes" <-- good luck21:17
Hattmannenrobmyers: True. I just don't want anyone using my code to be required to release their code.21:17
mattlHattmannen: so why not for commercial purposes?21:17
ianweller"I just don't want anyone using my code to be required to release their code." -- then that's not sharealike and you want the BSD license, iirc21:18
HattmannenBeacuse I feel that if anyone use something I released for free (as in beer), they ought to do the same thing. If they don't want to do that, there will surely be many other alternatives to use.21:19
robmyershattmannen ok then use the LGPL21:19
Hattmannenianweller: Oh. Thanks.21:19
robmyersthat doesn't require disclosure of code that uses your code unless it statically links it21:19
ianwelleror LGPL yeah21:20
robmyershattmannen but the GPL specifically requires that people who use your code release their code with the same freedoms21:20
robmyersso if you want users of your code to return the favor, that's the GPL21:20
robmyersif you want them to not have to, that's the LGPL or (and I don't recommend it) BSD21:21
Hattmannenrobmyers: Ok. I'll take a look at the BSD license as well.21:21
* ianweller accidentally recommended bsd hehe21:21
HattmannenSo I should take a look at the LGPL then.21:21
HattmannenThanks alot. Hope I didn't seem too daft.21:21
robmyershattmannen do please consider the gpl. it's cool ;-)21:22
paulproteusHattmannen, I'm glad you swung by and asked!21:23
Hattmannenrobmyers: I would probably generally go with the GPL, but in this case it's just some quickly hacked-together stuff, and I wouldn't want anyone else to look bad because of my code.21:24
ianwellerHattmannen: oh but that's why free software exists. so others can improve it, and give it back to you :)21:24
robmyersyeah, let people build on your work21:25
robmyersit's good for you and good for them21:25
Hattmannenianweller: Exactly. I just don't feel like cleaning up my code. ;-)21:25
robmyerssure, so release it and let the hive mind improve it ;-)21:25
ianwelleri always release crappy code. mainly cuz i can't code21:26
HattmannenI'm working on an ID3 tagging application. That will be released under the GPL when it's done.21:26
HattmannenThanks for your help! I'll go with the LGPL for my ugly-hacks(tm). ;-)21:30
robmyersNOOOOOOOOO! ;-)21:31
paulproteusYay! LGPL is compatible with most of the world's Free Software! (And robmyers is a GPL lover but secretly likes the LGPL too.)21:32
mattlianweller: how do i install python2.3 on your hippy OS.21:32
ianwellermattl: uhhhhhhhhhhhh.21:32
ianwelleri think we have compat packages for 2.4 but not 2.321:33
ianwellerwe're too new for that21:33
ianwellerwe have 2.6 in F11 ;)21:33
* mattl cries21:33
mattlwhy oh why.21:33
ianwellerwhat do you even need it for?21:33
mattlzope 2.7 ffs21:33
ianwellergregdek wanted me to originally package some zope plugins for fedora but that failed after i learned that ummm dependencies and incompatabilities were not fun21:34
mattlyeah, it's really really old21:35
ianwellersomething that old is bound to have security issues ;)21:36
paulproteusw00t, let's leave our users helpless rather than deal with packaging issues!21:38
* paulproteus ducks21:38
ianwellerpaulproteus: i'm not the guy to say :)21:38
ianwellerblame canada^Wfesco21:38
mattlits true. ianweller is basically a sockpuppet for red hat ;)21:38
* ianweller goes to see if the bill acceptor in the library works21:39
ianwelleri neeeed a dr. pepper :(21:39
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hdworakthe guy had to go dual license - BSD for non-commerical and EULA for commercial21:56
* hdworak does not understand the purpose of BSD/MIT at all21:56
hdworakimho it's all about self-promotion and big ego21:57
hdworakwhy don't ppl release their software into public domain21:57
hdworakand instead use nasty BSD/MIT licenses21:57
hdworakSQLite for the win21:57
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robmyerspublic domain and bsd/mit don't protect user freedom22:03
robmyersbut this is a CC channel, not a free software one ;-)22:03
BovinityCC and curry.22:03
mattlrobmyers: s/mit/X11 license.22:03
robmyersah they're all the same22:04
robmyersOK yes I see your point22:04
* ianweller wants open source print cartridges22:15
mattlianweller: free print cartridges?22:16
greg-gbig F or small f?22:16
ianwellerfree as in freedom print cartridges.22:19
robmyersnone of the fixed time outs22:24
robmyersthat's more maker freedom, but it does touch on software freedom because it's effected through software22:24
robmyerserr CC channel. oops.22:25
mattlnathany: does your surname begin with a y?22:27
nathanymattl: yes :)22:27
paulproteusPlus he's very Nathany.22:27
mattlthats how i read it.22:28
Bovinityhe's the nathanyest22:28
paulproteusNathan Zest.22:30
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hdworakrobmyers: you're absolutely right, sorry for the off-topic22:36
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robmyersI was talking about me ;-)22:37
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johndoigiiianyone know of the Mac eq of 'adduser'23:44
johndoigiii...trying to add a user to a group23:44
paulproteusjohndoigiii, groupmod iirc23:45
paulproteusBut then again, it uses the weird local Apple Directory Services thing.23:45
paulproteusSo in that case, I'm not so sure.23:45
johndoigiiii'll give it a shot, thx23:45
ianwellerand that's why i don't use macs anymore23:45
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johndoigiiigroupmod isn't on my path, are you sure its still used before I search for it?23:46
paulproteusjohndoigiii, That's the old-skool UNIXism. I have no idea if Apple still (or ever) uses/used it. )-:23:47
paulproteusI'd just Google the issue.23:48
johndoigiiii have, unsuccessful23:48
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paulproteusI searched [os-x add user unix-group]23:49
johndoigiiihaha <-- reading right now23:49
paulproteusNetInfo, that's the name of it.23:50
paulproteusThat's the key word to look for.23:50
johndoigiiiahh thank you23:51
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