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| DrSlony | Hey, does anyone here know which license grants free use and modification of my photo as long as it remains free and I'm credited, but still allows me to sell the original high resolution image? | 00:05 |
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| paulproteus | dr... bye | 00:46 |
| paulproteus | shucks | 00:46 |
| Bovinity | timothy leary's dead what? | 00:49 |
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| mattl | paulproteus: do you know if there are texinfo versions of CCPLs? | 02:22 |
| paulproteus | mattl, I believe there are not. | 02:23 |
| paulproteus | "Surely there's html2tex somewhere..." | 02:23 |
| paulproteus | Googling it finds it. | 02:23 |
| mattl | texinfo != tex ;) | 02:23 |
| paulproteus | I thought texinfo was a dialect of TeX? | 02:24 |
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| * paulproteus knows nearly nothing about texinfo | 02:24 | |
| mattl | me neither. trying to learn it. | 02:24 |
| mattl | oh check this. | 02:24 |
| mattl | $ uname -a | 02:24 |
| mattl | Linux mattl.cnuk.org 2.6.27.15-libre.170.2.24.fc10.i686 #1 SMP Fri Feb 13 21:33:55 EST 2009 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux | 02:24 |
| paulproteus | Regardless; html2texi and html2texinfo exist. | 02:24 |
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| riot | hi there | 03:10 |
| riot | oh, now, thats a small channel. Is this really the main cc-channel? | 03:10 |
| riot | i have a suggestion for the webpage (at least the german part) | 03:10 |
| riot | put up a very quick link to see all the possible licenses in a smart overview list on the home page. Or am i just too blind to see that one? | 03:11 |
| paulproteus | riot, Most CC staffers are away. | 03:15 |
| paulproteus | (I'm the only one around!) | 03:15 |
| paulproteus | I'd suggest emailing webmaster@ to make sure we see what you're talking about when we return to the office next week. | 03:16 |
| riot | oh, and it is waaay too much clickage to actually read the legalcode, imho ;) | 03:17 |
| riot | paulproteus: thanks for the hint, i consider writing the mail tomorrow :) | 03:17 |
| paulproteus | (-: | 03:21 |
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| hdworak | hi | 14:00 |
| hdworak | if accepted for a technology internship, is it possible to postpone its starting date until mid-July (though it would last 10 weeks)? | 14:03 |
| hdworak | is cc applying for GSoC 2009? if so, what developer challenges are being considered? (yes, I know about the "gsoc" tag in wiki/Developer_Challenges) | 14:04 |
| hdworak | The command: easy_install --install-dir ~/.python/lib/python2.5/site-packages --prefix ~/.python cc.license | 14:05 |
| hdworak | yields an error: Setup script exited with error: can't copy 'license.rdf/rdf/index.rdf': doesn't exist or not a regular file | 14:05 |
| hdworak | log is here: http://cc.pastebin.com/f465e6538 | 14:07 |
| hdworak | ok, so http://pypi.python.org/packages/source/c/cc.license/cc.license-0.03.tar.gz#md5=578bfd7c15f25f79d7b1208ed265d5d5 has setup.py, and that file has data_files=[('cc/license/rdf', ['license.rdf/rdf/index.rdf', (...) etc. | 14:11 |
| hdworak | but these .rdf/.xml files are not shipped along with that archive | 14:12 |
| hdworak | !seen ftobia | 14:13 |
| hdworak | ok, these files (RDFs and XML) are not on the cc.license.git either | 15:24 |
| hdworak | so I guess it is referring to license.rdf.git | 15:25 |
| hdworak | and I can't find license.rdf on pypi, so I think this is why this egg is not referenced in setup.py of cc.license | 15:27 |
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| hdworak | ok, it seems one has to git clone license.rdf.git inside the cc.license.git clone :) | 16:37 |
| hdworak | because issuing "python setup.py install --prefix ~/.python" inside a standalone license.rdf.git clone does not help in installing cc.license.git | 16:39 |
| hdworak | ftobia: another thing is that inside the cc.license package we have cc/license/_lib/classes.py with "import RDF" on the very top of it; however, this dependency does not exist in setup.py | 16:45 |
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| paulproteus | hdworak, re: Tech internship: Email Nathan (and cc: me). | 17:31 |
| paulproteus | (Do also CC: Jennifer) | 17:31 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: my semester ends around June 30th and it's normal in Poland :) | 17:32 |
| hdworak | I've classes with students until June 17th | 17:33 |
| hdworak | ok, thnx | 17:33 |
| paulproteus | re: license.rdf / broken cc.license: You could file a ticket at code.creativecommons.org/issues. | 17:33 |
| hdworak | seems like a new cc service | 17:34 |
| hdworak | earliest record is 5 months old, ok | 17:34 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: how about the GSoC question? | 17:35 |
| hdworak | is cc applying for GSoC 2009? if so, what developer challenges are being considered? (yes, I know about the "gsoc" tag in wiki/Developer_Challenges) | 17:35 |
| paulproteus | We haven't thought about it yet at all, as far as I know. | 17:36 |
| paulproteus | Yours was by far the most successful GSoC project we had. | 17:36 |
| paulproteus | In fact, I personally would love to see you revisit the work that Ankit was to do.... | 17:36 |
| hdworak | are you overall disappointed with the previous GSoC(s)? | 17:36 |
| paulproteus | (Since we really do need a lot more focus on metrics.) | 17:36 |
| hdworak | sounds very cool :) | 17:37 |
| paulproteus | There's a lot of good work that can be done with our logs, if only we sit down and think about it and then actually drive those to conclusion. | 17:37 |
| hdworak | well, is it really necessary to transfer like 300 GB+ of logs? | 17:38 |
| hdworak | I mean, won't downloading a couple of GB from you do? (in terms of developing the software) | 17:38 |
| hdworak | or do you want not only the software but the results of its analysis, too? | 17:39 |
| hdworak | nathany: March 9-13 is the period to apply for the mentoring orgs for a spot in GSoC 2009; pls consider | 17:40 |
| hdworak | :) | 17:40 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, he's not online currently (-: | 17:42 |
| paulproteus | hdworak, It's not - we can do the computation from an Amazon EC2 server and thereby not transfer any of the logs out of the Amazon network. | 17:42 |
| paulproteus | (Which is where they all get archived to.) | 17:42 |
| hdworak | ok, I'm just asking 'cause I know that was problematic last year | 17:43 |
| hdworak | :) | 17:43 |
| hdworak | ank\itg needed a special hard drive for that or something | 17:43 |
| hdworak | I think this is superfluous - if it works on 1 GB of data, why shouldn't it on 300 GB given more time? | 17:44 |
| hdworak | so I guess a local copy of 1 GB or so would do | 17:44 |
| hdworak | and then when it's done and doesn't work on 300 GB you can further investigate the issue | 17:44 |
| paulproteus | I agree entirely. | 17:45 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: have you had an intern from a country where VISA to US was required? | 17:46 |
| paulproteus | I will say, if we do GSoC this year, and we see people slipping early on, if you don't shape up by mid-term we will cut the cord rather than continue to invest time in the project. | 17:46 |
| paulproteus | I know we've had French interns more than once; I don't know their visa requirements, but I think the did require them and we managed. | 17:46 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: re GSOC: good thinking | 17:47 |
| hdworak | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_passport#Americas | 17:48 |
| hdworak | it reads "no visa", but maybe this has changed recently | 17:48 |
| paulproteus | Well, I'm sure we can work it out. | 17:48 |
| paulproteus | Don't worry about it. | 17:48 |
| hdworak | :) | 17:49 |
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| hdworak | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_passport | 17:49 |
| hdworak | I've got an e-mail today from a Swiss guy about the validator | 17:50 |
| hdworak | "License-oriented metadata validator and viewer: Warning about RDFa-code" | 17:51 |
| hdworak | I thought you've redirected him to me, since the subject contains [cc-devel] | 17:52 |
| hdworak | but I cannot find anything like that in the mailing list's archives | 17:52 |
| hdworak | so I'm trying to get back to work and I'm installing the stuff | 17:53 |
| hdworak | if you've not revoked my access, I'll at least update the installation instructions via git | 17:53 |
| paulproteus | Very cool. I don't know of anything like that hitting the mailing list. | 17:53 |
| paulproteus | (-: | 17:53 |
| hdworak | because right now it sucks - they require sudo to install *validator | 17:54 |
| paulproteus | Well, that's the easiest way. | 17:54 |
| hdworak | I've managed to get libvalidator working via ~/.python | 17:54 |
| paulproteus | Sweet - by all means tidy up the docs. | 17:54 |
| hdworak | now I'm gonna give the validator a try | 17:54 |
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| hdworak | ok, I've managed to do a license.rdf.git + cc.license.git + libvalidator.git + validator.git installation with only "sudo apt-get install python-setuptools python-librdf" required as a superuser | 18:41 |
| hdworak | (librdf is not on pypi and has no egg) | 18:41 |
| hdworak | ~/.python structure after installation: http://cc.pastebin.com/f3efc6939 | 18:45 |
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| CowboyBA_ | i'm looking for a recommended method of including a link to my CC license in my HTML. It needs to validate! | 19:12 |
| hdworak | CowboyBA_: one sec | 19:12 |
| CowboyBA_ | can anyone point me in the right direction? i've been looking through the wiki with no luck | 19:12 |
| CowboyBA_ | thanks | 19:12 |
| hdworak | XHTML+RDFa | 19:12 |
| hdworak | just a sec | 19:12 |
| CowboyBA_ | i'm HTML 4.01 if that matters | 19:12 |
| hdworak | I've a call | 19:12 |
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| CowboyBA_ | so.. any suggestions for HTML, not X- ? | 19:20 |
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| hdworak | http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Extend_Metadata | 19:23 |
| CowboyBA_ | ok, i'll do it in the comment | 19:24 |
| hdworak | ok, so just to make it clear: cc prefers RDFa, which is an extension of XHTML, so HTML won't validate | 19:24 |
| CowboyBA_ | sure | 19:24 |
| hdworak | no, the comment is deprecated! | 19:24 |
| hdworak | :) | 19:24 |
| CowboyBA_ | well, what can i use that will validate? | 19:24 |
| CowboyBA_ | in HTML | 19:25 |
| paulproteus | rel="license" | 19:25 |
| hdworak | paulproteus: rel is the only required attribute? | 19:25 |
| CowboyBA_ | Con: Validation requires modifying the DOCTYPE which some users may be unable to do. | 19:25 |
| paulproteus | If you need more, then HTML can't realistically support it unless you add RDFa (which is going into HTML5, we hope). | 19:25 |
| hdworak | CowboyBA_: paulproteus is a member of cc staff, so you should listen to him, not me :) | 19:26 |
| CowboyBA_ | sure | 19:26 |
| hdworak | CowboyBA_: but if I were you, I'd go with "LINKing to an external file" or "In META" | 19:26 |
| hdworak | all three methods are supported with http://validator.creativecommons.org/ where you can check whether you've messed up something | 19:26 |
| paulproteus | hdworak is a smart fellow, too. | 19:27 |
| CowboyBA_ | heh | 19:27 |
| hdworak | pshaw, paulproteus! | 19:27 |
| CowboyBA_ | for the linking to an external file, "Not supported by all readers. " | 19:27 |
| CowboyBA_ | not a problem? | 19:27 |
| paulproteus | I would say that RDFa is a better plan. Can you step back and give some context? | 19:28 |
| paulproteus | But also I have to make a phone call. | 19:28 |
| CowboyBA_ | i've got a simple HTML 4.01 transitional website, that i want to validate :D | 19:28 |
| CowboyBA_ | the links i was given by the cc license generator are clearly xhtml | 19:29 |
| CowboyBA_ | which doesn't validate | 19:29 |
| CowboyBA_ | so i want to have my cake, and eat it too | 19:29 |
| CowboyBA_ | :D | 19:29 |
| CowboyBA_ | even though i'm using a cms, i have pretty much full control over things.. so i can probably do anything that will work | 19:29 |
| CowboyBA_ | (short of switching over to xhtml) | 19:30 |
| hdworak | CowboyBA_: I'm back again :) | 19:34 |
| hdworak | the problem with RDFa is that HTML 4.01 has only rel/href/src of all 10 attributes of RDFa | 19:34 |
| CowboyBA_ | right | 19:35 |
| hdworak | so you could add a very basic line like the one from the Wiki page: | 19:35 |
| CowboyBA_ | xml and xhtml support namespaces, which is great | 19:35 |
| hdworak | This work is licensed under the <a rel="license" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/">Creative Commons Attribution License</a>. | 19:35 |
| hdworak | this works and has to be valid and, yes, it does state your license | 19:35 |
| hdworak | but if you want advanced RDFa like <div about="http://example.org/gnomophone.mp3" typeof="cc:Work"> (an example below on the cc wiki's page) there is no way this will validate | 19:36 |
| CowboyBA_ | bummer | 19:37 |
| CowboyBA_ | it's too bad it | 19:37 |
| CowboyBA_ | can't also work in html, via some ugly hack or workaround that does technically validate, yet makes you shudder just thinking about it | 19:37 |
| hdworak | if you put plain RDF code (<rdf:RDF etc.) directly in the "head" or "body" it won't validate (either in XHTML or HTML, I'm sure you know that) | 19:37 |
| CowboyBA_ | yeah | 19:37 |
| CowboyBA_ | well, it's ok. i have a license page on my site that people can read if worse comes to worse | 19:38 |
| hdworak | if you put the RDF block in a comment, this has 0 semantic value, so it's plain wrong | 19:38 |
| CowboyBA_ | right | 19:38 |
| CowboyBA_ | but readers might still be able to parse it out | 19:38 |
| * CowboyBA_ is guessing | 19:38 | |
| hdworak | so you're left with the "link" element or the "meta" element | 19:38 |
| CowboyBA_ | well, i like the linking-to-another-page idea | 19:39 |
| hdworak | meta will allow you to simply state what license the document is | 19:39 |
| CowboyBA_ | because that page can have whatever content | 19:39 |
| hdworak | and link allows you to link to an external .rdf file where you can put up any statements you like (in the RDF language, of course) | 19:39 |
| CowboyBA_ | yes | 19:40 |
| CowboyBA_ | well, someone should tell the movable type people that instead of generating rdf in a comment in the head, they should generate individual external linked rdf files | 19:41 |
| CowboyBA_ | :P | 19:41 |
| CowboyBA_ | thanks for the help hdworak | 19:43 |
| CowboyBA_ | et al | 19:43 |
| hdworak | the drawback of link/meta is that you can only state the license of the entire document | 19:43 |
| hdworak | you're welcome | 19:43 |
| hdworak | with RDFa or RDF you can state info about anything | 19:43 |
| hdworak | you can see at the wiki "For the RDFa equivalent of the RDF/XML embedded using the data: URI scheme above see below: " | 19:43 |
| CowboyBA_ | yeah, let's hope html5 uses it | 19:43 |
| hdworak | so for that RDFa there's also equivalent RDF/XML if you'd like to see it | 19:44 |
| hdworak | (I can paste it to you) | 19:44 |
| CowboyBA_ | sure | 19:44 |
| hdworak | when it comes to telling ppl that RDF in a comment is deprecated, wiki page says its deprecated, and when the validator.creativecommons.org spots it, it also says it's deprecated | 19:45 |
| hdworak | ok, so to get that original RDF/XML: it comes from the data: URI string in "LINKing to a data: URL" | 19:45 |
| * hdworak searches for a tool to decode data: URI, one sec | 19:45 | |
| hdworak | ok, it can be done in firefox :) | 19:46 |
| hdworak | CowboyBA_: http://cc.pastebin.com/f1e38cf36 | 19:46 |
| CowboyBA_ | yeah ff and safari should b able to handle data: urls | 19:46 |
| hdworak | that RDFa code is 100% equivalent of this RDF/XML | 19:47 |
| CowboyBA_ | cool | 19:47 |
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| hdworak | their RDF graphs are isomoprhic :) | 19:48 |
| hdworak | Web 3.0 owns | 19:49 |
| hdworak | Web 2.0 + Web 3.0 = Web 5.0 | 19:49 |
| CowboyBA_ | ok, thanks again! | 19:50 |
| hdworak | n/p | 19:50 |
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| hdworak | paulproteus: are you there? | 21:25 |
| * hdworak has found a missing dependency in validator.git (lxml) | 21:49 | |
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| hdworak | paulproteus: I'd be grateful if you could check if these instructions are okay (running them would be superb): | 22:51 |
| hdworak | http://code.creativecommons.org/viewgit?p=validator.git;a=commit;h=7f96684d7d64fa5882db6c1ed4807a42261645fe | 22:51 |
| hdworak | http://code.creativecommons.org/viewgit?p=libvalidator.git;a=commit;h=8b942cd49b38be07ae74bb96d567b530109d1815 | 22:51 |
| hdworak | see you tomorrow | 22:52 |
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