Saturday, 2009-02-28

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DrSlonyHey, does anyone here know which license grants free use and modification of my photo as long as it remains free and I'm credited, but still allows me to sell the original high resolution image?00:05
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paulproteusdr... bye00:46
Bovinitytimothy leary's dead what?00:49
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mattlpaulproteus: do you know if there are texinfo versions of CCPLs?02:22
paulproteusmattl, I believe there are not.02:23
paulproteus"Surely there's html2tex somewhere..."02:23
paulproteusGoogling it finds it.02:23
mattltexinfo != tex ;)02:23
paulproteusI thought texinfo was a dialect of TeX?02:24
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* paulproteus knows nearly nothing about texinfo02:24
mattlme neither. trying to learn it.02:24
mattloh check this.02:24
mattl$ uname -a02:24
mattlLinux #1 SMP Fri Feb 13 21:33:55 EST 2009 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux02:24
paulproteusRegardless; html2texi and html2texinfo exist.02:24
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riothi there03:10
riotoh, now, thats a small channel. Is this really the main cc-channel?03:10
rioti have a suggestion for the webpage (at least the german part)03:10
riotput up a very quick link to see all the possible licenses in a smart overview list on the home page. Or am i just too blind to see that one?03:11
paulproteusriot, Most CC staffers are away.03:15
paulproteus(I'm the only one around!)03:15
paulproteusI'd suggest emailing webmaster@ to make sure we see what you're talking about when we return to the office next week.03:16
riotoh, and it is waaay too much clickage to actually read the legalcode, imho ;)03:17
riotpaulproteus: thanks for the hint, i consider writing the mail tomorrow :)03:17
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hdworakif accepted for a technology internship, is it possible to postpone its starting date until mid-July (though it would last 10 weeks)?14:03
hdworakis cc applying for GSoC 2009? if so, what developer challenges are being considered? (yes, I know about the "gsoc" tag in wiki/Developer_Challenges)14:04
hdworakThe command: easy_install --install-dir ~/.python/lib/python2.5/site-packages --prefix ~/.python cc.license14:05
hdworakyields an error: Setup script exited with error: can't copy 'license.rdf/rdf/index.rdf': doesn't exist or not a regular file14:05
hdworaklog is here:
hdworakok, so has, and that file has data_files=[('cc/license/rdf', ['license.rdf/rdf/index.rdf', (...) etc.14:11
hdworakbut these .rdf/.xml files are not shipped along with that archive14:12
hdworak!seen ftobia14:13
hdworakok, these files (RDFs and XML) are not on the cc.license.git either15:24
hdworakso I guess it is referring to license.rdf.git15:25
hdworakand I can't find license.rdf on pypi, so I think this is why this egg is not referenced in of cc.license15:27
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hdworakok, it seems one has to git clone license.rdf.git inside the cc.license.git clone :)16:37
hdworakbecause issuing "python install --prefix ~/.python" inside a standalone license.rdf.git clone does not help in installing cc.license.git16:39
hdworakftobia: another thing is that inside the cc.license package we have cc/license/_lib/ with "import RDF" on the very top of it; however, this dependency does not exist in setup.py16:45
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paulproteushdworak, re: Tech internship: Email Nathan (and cc: me).17:31
paulproteus(Do also CC: Jennifer)17:31
hdworakpaulproteus: my semester ends around June 30th and it's normal in Poland :)17:32
hdworakI've classes with students until June 17th17:33
hdworakok, thnx17:33
paulproteusre: license.rdf / broken cc.license: You could file a ticket at
hdworakseems like a new cc service17:34
hdworakearliest record is 5 months old, ok17:34
hdworakpaulproteus: how about the GSoC question?17:35
hdworakis cc applying for GSoC 2009? if so, what developer challenges are being considered? (yes, I know about the "gsoc" tag in wiki/Developer_Challenges)17:35
paulproteusWe haven't thought about it yet at all, as far as I know.17:36
paulproteusYours was by far the most successful GSoC project we had.17:36
paulproteusIn fact, I personally would love to see you revisit the work that Ankit was to do....17:36
hdworakare you overall disappointed with the previous GSoC(s)?17:36
paulproteus(Since we really do need a lot more focus on metrics.)17:36
hdworaksounds very cool :)17:37
paulproteusThere's a lot of good work that can be done with our logs, if only we sit down and think about it and then actually drive those to conclusion.17:37
hdworakwell, is it really necessary to transfer like 300 GB+ of logs?17:38
hdworakI mean, won't downloading a couple of GB from you do? (in terms of developing the software)17:38
hdworakor do you want not only the software but the results of its analysis, too?17:39
hdworaknathany: March 9-13 is the period to apply for the mentoring orgs for a spot in GSoC 2009; pls consider17:40
paulproteushdworak, he's not online currently (-:17:42
paulproteushdworak, It's not - we can do the computation from an Amazon EC2 server and thereby not transfer any of the logs out of the Amazon network.17:42
paulproteus(Which is where they all get archived to.)17:42
hdworakok, I'm just asking 'cause I know that was problematic last year17:43
hdworakank\itg needed a special hard drive for that or something17:43
hdworakI think this is superfluous - if it works on 1 GB of data, why shouldn't it on 300 GB given more time?17:44
hdworakso I guess a local copy of 1 GB or so would do17:44
hdworakand then when it's done and doesn't work on 300 GB you can further investigate the issue17:44
paulproteusI agree entirely.17:45
hdworakpaulproteus: have you had an intern from a country where VISA to US was required?17:46
paulproteusI will say, if we do GSoC this year, and we see people slipping early on, if you don't shape up by mid-term we will cut the cord rather than continue to invest time in the project.17:46
paulproteusI know we've had French interns more than once; I don't know their visa requirements, but I think the did require them and we managed.17:46
hdworakpaulproteus: re GSOC: good thinking17:47
hdworakit reads "no visa", but maybe this has changed recently17:48
paulproteusWell, I'm sure we can work it out.17:48
paulproteusDon't worry about it.17:48
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hdworakI've got an e-mail today from a Swiss guy about the validator17:50
hdworak"License-oriented metadata validator and viewer: Warning about RDFa-code"17:51
hdworakI thought you've redirected him to me, since the subject contains [cc-devel]17:52
hdworakbut I cannot find anything like that in the mailing list's archives17:52
hdworakso I'm trying to get back to work and I'm installing the stuff17:53
hdworakif you've not revoked my access, I'll at least update the installation instructions via git17:53
paulproteusVery cool. I don't know of anything like that hitting the mailing list.17:53
hdworakbecause right now it sucks - they require sudo to install *validator17:54
paulproteusWell, that's the easiest way.17:54
hdworakI've managed to get libvalidator working via ~/.python17:54
paulproteusSweet - by all means tidy up the docs.17:54
hdworaknow I'm gonna give the validator a try17:54
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hdworakok, I've managed to do a license.rdf.git + cc.license.git + libvalidator.git + validator.git installation with only "sudo apt-get install python-setuptools python-librdf" required as a superuser18:41
hdworak(librdf is not on pypi and has no egg)18:41
hdworak~/.python structure after installation:
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CowboyBA_i'm looking for a recommended method of including a link to my CC license in my HTML. It needs to validate!19:12
hdworakCowboyBA_: one sec19:12
CowboyBA_can anyone point me in the right direction? i've been looking through the wiki with no luck19:12
hdworakjust a sec19:12
CowboyBA_i'm HTML 4.01 if that matters19:12
hdworakI've a call19:12
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CowboyBA_so.. any suggestions for HTML, not X- ?19:20
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CowboyBA_ok, i'll do it in the comment19:24
hdworakok, so just to make it clear: cc prefers RDFa, which is an extension of XHTML, so HTML won't validate19:24
hdworakno, the comment is deprecated!19:24
CowboyBA_well, what can i use that will validate?19:24
CowboyBA_in HTML19:25
hdworakpaulproteus: rel is the only required attribute?19:25
CowboyBA_Con: Validation requires modifying the DOCTYPE which some users may be unable to do.19:25
paulproteusIf you need more, then HTML can't realistically support it unless you add RDFa (which is going into HTML5, we hope).19:25
hdworakCowboyBA_: paulproteus is a member of cc staff, so you should listen to him, not me :)19:26
hdworakCowboyBA_: but if I were you, I'd go with "LINKing to an external file" or "In META"19:26
hdworakall three methods are supported with where you can check whether you've messed up something19:26
paulproteushdworak is a smart fellow, too.19:27
hdworakpshaw, paulproteus!19:27
CowboyBA_for the linking to an external file, "Not supported by all readers. "19:27
CowboyBA_not a problem?19:27
paulproteusI would say that RDFa is a better plan. Can you step back and give some context?19:28
paulproteusBut also I have to make a phone call.19:28
CowboyBA_i've got a simple HTML 4.01 transitional website, that i want to validate :D19:28
CowboyBA_the links i was given by the cc license generator are clearly xhtml19:29
CowboyBA_which doesn't validate19:29
CowboyBA_so i want to have my cake, and eat it too19:29
CowboyBA_even though i'm using a cms, i have pretty much full control over things.. so i can probably do anything that will work19:29
CowboyBA_(short of switching over to xhtml)19:30
hdworakCowboyBA_: I'm back again :)19:34
hdworakthe problem with RDFa is that HTML 4.01 has only rel/href/src of all 10 attributes of RDFa19:34
hdworakso you could add a very basic line like the one from the Wiki page:19:35
CowboyBA_xml and xhtml support namespaces, which is great19:35
hdworakThis work is licensed under the <a rel="license" href="">Creative Commons Attribution License</a>.19:35
hdworakthis works and has to be valid and, yes, it does state your license19:35
hdworakbut if you want advanced RDFa like <div about="" typeof="cc:Work"> (an example below on the cc wiki's page) there is no way this will validate19:36
CowboyBA_it's too bad it19:37
CowboyBA_can't also work in html, via some ugly hack or workaround that does technically validate, yet makes you shudder just thinking about it19:37
hdworakif you put plain RDF code (<rdf:RDF etc.) directly in the "head" or "body" it won't validate (either in XHTML or HTML, I'm sure you know that)19:37
CowboyBA_well, it's ok. i have a license page on my site that people can read if worse comes to worse19:38
hdworakif you put the RDF block in a comment, this has 0 semantic value, so it's plain wrong19:38
CowboyBA_but readers might still be able to parse it out19:38
* CowboyBA_ is guessing19:38
hdworakso you're left with the "link" element or the "meta" element19:38
CowboyBA_well, i like the linking-to-another-page idea19:39
hdworakmeta will allow you to simply state what license the document is19:39
CowboyBA_because that page can have whatever content19:39
hdworakand link allows you to link to an external .rdf file where you can put up any statements you like (in the RDF language, of course)19:39
CowboyBA_well, someone should tell the movable type people that instead of generating rdf in a comment in the head, they should generate individual external linked rdf files19:41
CowboyBA_thanks for the help hdworak19:43
CowboyBA_et al19:43
hdworakthe drawback of link/meta is that you can only state the license of the entire document19:43
hdworakyou're welcome19:43
hdworakwith RDFa or RDF you can state info about anything19:43
hdworakyou can see at the wiki "For the RDFa equivalent of the RDF/XML embedded using the data: URI scheme above see below: "19:43
CowboyBA_yeah, let's hope html5 uses it19:43
hdworakso for that RDFa there's also equivalent RDF/XML if you'd like to see it19:44
hdworak(I can paste it to you)19:44
hdworakwhen it comes to telling ppl that RDF in a comment is deprecated, wiki page says its deprecated, and when the spots it, it also says it's deprecated19:45
hdworakok, so to get that original RDF/XML: it comes from the data: URI string in "LINKing to a data: URL"19:45
* hdworak searches for a tool to decode data: URI, one sec19:45
hdworakok, it can be done in firefox :)19:46
CowboyBA_yeah ff and safari should b able to handle data: urls19:46
hdworakthat RDFa code is 100% equivalent of this RDF/XML19:47
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hdworaktheir RDF graphs are isomoprhic :)19:48
hdworakWeb 3.0 owns19:49
hdworakWeb 2.0 + Web 3.0 = Web 5.019:49
CowboyBA_ok, thanks again!19:50
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hdworakpaulproteus: are you there?21:25
* hdworak has found a missing dependency in validator.git (lxml)21:49
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hdworakpaulproteus: I'd be grateful if you could check if these instructions are okay (running them would be superb):22:51
hdworaksee you tomorrow22:52
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