Monday, 2008-06-09

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hdworakpaulproteus: what do you think of tests' format as in the feed parser? http://feedparser.googlecode.com/files/feedparser-tests-4.1.zip01:54
hdworakbasically, they put each test in a separate .xml file and add its title + expected value in an XML  comment on top of the root node01:55
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peepoanyone know where the svg format of the cc buttons are? png are here: http://i.creativecommons.org/l/by/3.0/03:16
hdworakhttp://code.creativecommons.org/viewsvn/liblicense-sugar/trunk/icons/03:20
hdworakhttp://www.google.com/search?hl=pl&q=filetype%3Asvg+site%3Acreativecommons.org&btnG=Szukaj&lr=03:20
peepohdworak thanks for that...03:33
hdworakyou're welcome03:33
peepodisturbing that they contain no title content03:34
peepowhere could I file a bug?03:34
peepothis is a specification issue, each svg should contain a title according to the spec.03:35
peepoeg screen readers wont know what this is.03:35
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peepo& on a separate issue, how can I implement:03:38
peepo<rdf:description rdf:about="http://creativecommons.org/ns#attributionURL">03:38
peepocant find an example of how to include an attribution url in the rdf03:38
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hdworakpeepo: what is the file type you want to include the information in?03:51
hdworakpeepo: as for the bug, I really do not know, I'm not a creative commons' employee :)03:54
hdworakplease ask, when paul-proteus or nath-any start chatting here03:54
peepocheers, sorry svg format...03:55
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hdworakpeepo: http://www.google.pl/search?hl=pl&q=filetype%3Asvg+creativecommons+rdf&btnG=Szukaj&lr=04:08
hdworakhere is an example: http://code.creativecommons.org/viewsvn/liblicense/trunk/src/gnome/emblem-cc.svg?revision=6360&content-type=text%2Fplain&pathrev=636004:08
peepohdworak yes it requires attribution but04:11
peepothe attirbution url isn't in the rdf unless I missed it...04:11
hdworakI'm sorry, I'm afraid my knowledge is insufficient to help you04:16
peeponp...04:23
peepotx for investigating,04:24
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paulproteushdworak, That by itself won't be enough.09:13
paulproteushdworak, re: test format09:13
paulproteusSince you'll have invalid stuff.09:13
hdworaksure, but he also uses that for invalid stuff09:15
hdworaktest/illformed in that .zip09:15
paulproteus...interesting.09:20
paulproteusFor now, I would keep all the test input files in a directories and just write the trivial code around the test data in Python.09:21
paulproteusfeedparser is designed to recover from errors, even totally insane ones.09:21
paulproteusYour job is to actually *show* errors, so it's a different story.09:21
paulproteusHere, I'm going go to take a shower and so on, but I'll be online in 40m or so.09:22
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monkeycidHiyas! What is required to fulfil the 'attribution' clause of a CC 3.0 license, if the licensor has not specified anything? For an image on a webpage, is it sufficient with an attribution in the page source (where other creators, i.e those who made the website, are acknowledged?)09:47
paulproteusmonkeycid, Have you read the CC FAQ's discussion of Attribution?09:55
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monkeycidI think so - but your response indicates I would get my answer there, so I'll go read it again and see if I might have missed it10:00
monkeycidThe relevant bit I found was "(2) credit the author, licensor and/or other parties (such as a wiki or journal) in the manner they specify; ", which leads into my quesiton above10:01
* paulproteus nods10:02
paulproteusI'm going to vanish for 20-30m but I'll pay more attention to you when I'm back. (-:10:03
monkeycidaight10:12
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mecredishey there10:15
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bringatowelhello10:19
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hdworakbringatowel: hi10:27
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bringatowelhas anyone seen, it looks like someone published their genomic information via CC: http://biology.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pbio.005025410:33
bringatowelaccording to that page it is under CC, so hopefully that should include all this (direct link): ftp://ftp.ncbi.nih.gov/pub/TraceDB/Personal_Genomics/Venter/10:34
hdworaklol10:37
hdworak:)10:37
hdworaknever seen so many authors of one article in computer science10:37
hdworakthey use the old deprecated method of embedding the license information (RDF inside a comment)10:38
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paulproteusbringatowel, There's noting in the Venter/ directory for me.10:39
hdworakbringatowel: what makes you think that the stuff on that FTP is under the same license as the article?10:39
paulproteusmonkeycid, Boo.10:39
hdworakI can't see the string "ftp" inside the source code of the Web page10:39
bringatowelpaulproteus, it works fine for me in Firefox, ill check on a regular ftp client10:40
paulproteusEr, in firefox for me, the first time it didn't work, and later times it did.10:41
hdworakoh, it does work: http://www.imagesduo.com/uploads/835065GJp9nH1mRKF7ZbsBByMm5r5AtX6bP3t.png10:41
hdworakthis is in the Nautilus10:41
bringatowelhdworak, im not certain, trying to determine that now, however it is being served off ncbi.nih.gov server so it leads me to think it is at least CC or maybe even open domain :)10:41
bringatowelpaulproteus, ok cool, i might have messed up the link or something10:41
bringatowelhdworak, ok cool, yeah im looking to see what is in the files now, and also to find out and make sure they are under the same license10:43
paulproteusbringatowel, NIH stuff is mostly public domain.  And also if this is just data, then there can be no copyright on data in the US.10:43
hdworakone such file is 94.6 MB10:44
hdworakbut I'll download one to check it out10:44
hdworakfasta_Venter_37.gz10:44
bringatowelthere is a lot of compression10:44
bringatowelpaulproteus, thats what im thinking, which is all the more exciting. are you sure about the data stuff though? you could call the yellow pages "data" but if i tried to reprint it w/o permission, they would not be happy :D10:45
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hdworakok, inside there's just one huge file w/o an extension10:50
hdworakover 300 MB in size10:50
hdworakI see no license information in that archive, nor in the directory where it is placed, nor in parent directories10:51
nathanybringatowel: data can not be protected, but the collection and arrangement of data (ie, into categories such as the yellow pages) can be10:51
nathanywhich is why the white pages aren't copyrighted, the yellow pages are10:51
hdworaktherefore http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention_for_the_Protection_of_Literary_and_Artistic_Works :)10:52
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nathanypaulproteus: is cc.license in git or svn?10:53
paulproteusGit, natch.10:53
paulproteus(Rhymes with biznatch.)10:53
nathanyyour mom, er, never mind10:54
nathany;_)10:54
nathany;)10:54
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bringatowelok well should i contact someone at ncbi.nih.gov or is it ok to copy & share?11:08
bringatowelhdworak, it is supposed to be an XML file format, were you able to open one okay?11:12
hdworakno, I haven't tried11:16
hdworaktoo long11:16
paulproteustldr11:23
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paulproteusnkinkade, So a8 is 64bitted, and someday we should move i-dot to it.11:24
paulproteusnathany wants to ensure log continuity and I wasn't sure the best way to do that.11:24
nkinkadepaulproteus: Thanks.  I'm excited to see how it goes.11:26
nkinkadeOne of these days I'd be curious to know what general steps you took to do the conversion remotely.  Impressive.11:26
paulproteusIt was pretty easy.11:28
nkinkadepaulproteus: So have you compiled and installed a 64bit version of Varnish on a8?11:28
paulproteusBut it would have been slicker if I hadn't had to use "Remote Rescue".11:28
paulproteusnkinkade, Yup.11:28
paulproteusI'd be happy to talk about it later.11:29
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paulproteusEven make a diagram on a whiteboard.11:29
monkeycidpaulproteus: eek!11:37
paulproteusmonkeycid, Aaaack!11:38
monkeycidIt's battle time! err. You boo'd me earlier?11:40
paulproteusSo your question is, Is the HTML source okay?11:43
paulproteusDo you mean somewhere not visible to a casual surfer?11:44
paulproteusIf that's where everyone else is credited, yes, but usually there's a (C) notice in the part of the document visible by the causal surfer.11:44
paulproteusYou should read the part of the license in e.g. http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/3.0/legalcode that discusses attribution.11:45
paulproteusIt's actually fairly clear, if long, I think - look for "If You Distribute, or Publicly Perform"11:46
monkeycid"... at least as prominent". hmm. Yup. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!11:47
monkeycidI guess I'll have to get my client to pony up for a license for another picture if he doesn't want CC credits on the main page :]11:48
paulproteusIt seems to me it could easily be in the (C) notice at the footer of the page.11:49
monkeycidSo would I, but my client has been indicating that he doesn't want anything safe for his 'own' copyright there. I'll see if I can persuade him.11:51
nathanypaulproteus: i'm going to shove my proto-code for email notifications into source control; i assume git is the place, given our new SMW setup, right?11:52
paulproteusYes, voice11:53
paulproteusBTW my liblicense package has finally passed Debian's basic reviews; now the "ftpmasters" at Debian need to decide that its *own* licensing information is adequate and that it is worthy of hitting the Debian Free Software archives.11:55
nathanypaulproteus: great; is that likely?11:55
paulproteusBy "Debian's basic reviews" I mean "my own tests plus Mako's satisfaction".11:55
paulproteusYeah, it's just a matter of waiting.11:55
paulproteusI should update the code.cc apt repository some day.11:56
paulproteus(For e.g. Hardy)11:56
nathanyafter herder :)11:56
paulproteus(-:11:56
* paulproteus switches vdesktop11:56
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nkinkadepaulproteus: It seems that it would be safe for me to a2dissite the ccLearn stuff on a6, but I just wanted to check with you first.12:19
nkinkadeOr even remove the vhost configs altogether.12:19
paulproteusGo ahead!12:19
nkinkadeRemove them?12:19
paulproteusI left 'em in there while people's DNS caches expired.12:19
paulproteusRemove them.12:19
nkinkadeCool, thanks.12:19
paulproteusa6 would proxy for a8 while some losers still thought a6 was where learn lived.12:19
paulproteusThat era of history has passed.12:19
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paulproteusbovinity, so I've forgotten how to make HTML buttons.12:42
paulproteusWhich of the attributes on an <input type="submit"> control what?12:43
bovinityvalue cntrols the displayed title12:44
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paulproteusBest email line I've seen in a while:12:50
paulproteusgreat idea! let's do it and other things, too.12:50
paulproteus(surprisingly not by rejon)12:50
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rejon;)12:51
rejonI was just thinking thta the apple keynote is going to be a major let down12:51
rejonan apps store is a step backwards12:52
nathanyduh12:52
rejon;)12:52
rejoniphone 2.0 equals and SDK...wtf...I'm so depressed about openmoko and open phone efforts12:52
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hdworak<input type="submit"> - forgot slash at the ed12:57
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tvolcc sf, show greg-g and others the way of the curry :)13:16
bovinityhaha13:16
bovinityindeed13:16
nathanytvol: you question our curry intent?13:16
nathany(and greg-g is yame? [yet another midwest escapee])13:17
tvolnot you nathany, but paulproteus may try to detract13:17
nathanypaulproteus will be crushed13:17
nathany;)13:17
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paulproteusnkinkade, If you want to chat SATA cards we can do that.13:20
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nkinkadepaulproteus: Yeah, let's do that.13:23
nkinkadeI'm free now.13:23
paulproteusnathany, Know you what lunch is?13:27
nathanynope13:28
nathanyask ani13:28
nathany(and let me know if you find out :) )13:28
paulproteusnathany, Baja Fresh13:35
nathanycool13:35
paulproteus"then use the people riding the BART as a parallel computing environment."13:37
paulproteushttp://lists.ipython.scipy.org/pipermail/ipython-user/2008-June/005528.html13:37
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greg-gdid I hear curry?14:00
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rejonI'm kidproto on aim15:04
nathanynkinkade: paulproteus: mtg15:04
nathany?15:04
nathany!15:04
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peeponathany where do I get to file a bug report?15:11
nathanypeepo: for?15:11
peepoeg re: svg title content, as per email?15:11
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nathanypeepo: you can email me... sorry, i'm not sure what you're filing a bug against15:13
nathanyor you can email paulproteus15:13
nathany:)15:13
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peeponathany, I wondered about the redundancy of licence15:27
peepobut...15:27
peepohad you looked at http://www.openicon.org/feeds/zanadu.svg15:28
peeposcript is used to read the licence and present an icon15:28
peepono doubt this could be rewritten, but I wonder...15:28
nathanyso you have a script that reads license info out of the svg and relies on the <License> properties in there?15:29
peepowell mine doesn't but it was based on one that did15:30
peepoit gave all the requires and permits,15:31
peepoI'm content that you know your business as it were15:31
peepojust not sure that everyone else does....15:31
peepoand clicking on a linking is asking a lot, if you already dont know what it's all about15:32
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nathanypeepo: sorry for the delay; was in a meeting15:46
nathanywrt to the link, i understand what you're saying... part of the intent was adding "certainty" to why you should believe the assertions about the license15:47
nathanyassertions about a license @ creativecommons.org made in some random file... well, not really much reason to trust those15:48
nathanythose made @ creativecommons.org have reason to be treated as (at least) more trustworthy (because we're both the publishers of the license and the metadata)15:49
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bovinityftobia__: may i recommend X-Chat?16:12
bovinity;)16:13
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paulproteuspaulproteus@sf:~/gitted/herder $ git branch -d lol16:27
paulproteusDeleted branch lol.16:27
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paulproteusnathany, lame_suggestions_ui in Herder can delete suggestions; I'm going to see about liblicense packages now, and will probably handle the nicer suggestions UI tomorrow.16:41
paulproteus(as well as being able to list suggestions)16:41
nathanywoot16:41
rejonwhat is url to latest herder?16:43
rejonI wanna see! :)16:43
paulproteusgit clone git://code.creativecommons.org/herder.git ; cd herder ;git submodule init ; git submodule update ; ./bin/paster setup-app development.ini ; ./bin/paster serve --reload development.ini & sleep 5 ; firefox localhost:500016:44
paulproteus(no joke)16:45
paulproteusnkinkade, Actually I have a sec, I can go grab that SATA card...16:46
* paulproteus just wants the spare disk slot16:46
paulproteus+ SATA cable16:47
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xela2is there anyone here that can give me any help getting the rewrite working on lighttpd?16:48
nkinkadepaulproteus: I could probably run over there right now.16:48
paulproteusxela2, I think you may have the wrong channel.  Are you looking for #lighttpd?16:48
xela2no16:48
xela2i mean with CC16:48
paulproteusxela2, Can you be more specific?16:49
paulproteusnkinkade, Okay.  I was about to bug you about other pet projects of mine of yours too. (-;16:49
paulproteusBut I can sit here and do other stuff too. (-:16:49
nkinkadenathany: Did you see that email about the SATA card?16:49
xela2http://wiki.creativecommons.org/CcHost#Enabling_.27Pretty_URLs.2716:49
paulproteusxela2, Oh, CcHost!16:49
xela2the pretty url rewrites16:49
xela2sorry16:49
xela2forgetting cc isnt just cchost16:50
nathanynkinkade: yes, saw the email16:50
paulproteusCC is an organization that does more than just publish CcHost. (-:16:50
xela2^16:50
nathany(looking again)16:50
nkinkadenathany: Does that seem good to you?16:50
nathanyxela2: ask rejon16:50
paulproteusDo you have much lighttpd experience, xela2?16:50
xela2not a huge amount no16:50
nkinkadeLooks like paulproteus is ready to make the move, and I am to, since there are more problem cropping up.16:50
paulproteusIf you do, it would probably be straightforward to port the Apache mod_rewrite rules to lighttpd's system.16:50
nathanynkinkade: that looks fine; you might want to call and see if they have it in stock16:51
paulproteusxela2, I don't either I'm afraid.16:51
nathanyi assume it'll work with linux?16:51
xela2i'll give it a go16:51
paulproteusnathany, Yeah, people report success.16:51
nathanycool16:51
nkinkadeWell, someone said it worked with Ubuntu, so that should be good enough.16:51
nkinkadeUnless they were lying.16:51
nathanybtw, we shouldn't need a cable, right? we already have the one we bought for the drive when we deployed it16:51
nkinkadeWhich is possible.  It was some user-submitted comment.16:52
paulproteus(I would like a cable for a new drive to slide into my machine)16:52
nathanypaulproteus: understood; i somehow don't quite see CC paying for that ;)16:53
paulproteusNaturally, hence I hope to borrow one from the box of the SATA card!16:53
nathany(unless i'm misunderstanding, which is possible)16:53
nathanyheh16:53
nathanyok16:53
nathanygot it16:53
nathany(unless they took a lesson from printer manufacturers ;) )16:54
paulproteusSo API on a8?16:54
bovinityhm, i've got a ton of sata cables at home, from various motherboards and hard drives16:54
xela2paulproteus: in the mean time while i work it out, is there a config setting someone on cchost to disable pretty urls?16:54
rejonxela2: did you just install cchost?16:55
xela2no16:55
rejonjust don't install with that option checked16:55
rejonoh16:55
xela2im moving it from one server to another16:55
rejonwell, you should be able to use the longer url form: ?ccm=/media/admin16:56
xela2i'll try16:56
xela2thanks16:56
paulproteusbovinity, Hmm, maybe I could borrow one?16:58
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bovinitysure17:00
xela2rejon: doesnt work cos it goes to a pretty url for save page17:02
rejonhttp://la.curbed.com/archives/2008/06/balls_out_ivanh.php17:03
paulproteusxela2, Disable it in your current config before doing the move.17:03
xela2i would if the server was running17:03
xela2its being moved cos it died17:03
xela2lol17:03
paulproteus"Basically, Orange Products has shut down work on everything else just to make our balls."17:03
rejonxela2: send an email to the cctools-cchost list and ask about17:05
rejonplease17:05
paulproteusnkinkade, "BIOS DOES NOT BE INSTALLED"17:05
paulproteus@ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681528000117:05
cchelpbot_paulproteus: Error: "http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815280001" is not a valid command.17:05
xela2thanks rejon17:05
rejonxela2: if you have a chance to file that as a bug, good too...basically, the admin pages shouldn't use pretty urls17:06
nkinkadehttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681512400617:06
rejonthat is the approach wordpress uses17:06
rejoncentral computer man17:06
rejonthat place is cheeeeapest...and walking distance17:06
nkinkadeCentral Computer didn't have a cheap-ish card.17:06
paulproteusThey don't have any PCI ones in stock.17:06
paulproteusOnly PCI-X or PCI-E or some other such PCI-EXCITING.17:06
rejonhttp://www.centralcomputers.com17:06
rejonreally! whoa17:06
nkinkadeAnd, man, the navigation bar here doesn't exactly inspire confidence: http://www.centralcomputers.com/index.htm17:07
paulproteusnkinkade, Whatever, get it.17:07
bovinitywhat, no ISA? :P17:07
paulproteusSB PnP SATA17:07
nkinkadeI think this machine has a coule of ISA slots!17:07
bovinityVESA BUS17:07
paulproteusVLB SATA17:08
paulproteusHot diggety that'd be fast.17:08
paulproteusNuBus SATA17:08
xela2sorry, one more thing rejon they told me to ask you about porting the rewrite rules from apache to light17:09
xela2have you done this?17:09
paulproteusnkinkade, Best comment: "LA water tastes like balls"17:09
paulproteushttp://la.curbed.com/archives/2008/06/balls_out_ivanh.php17:09
nkinkadepaulproteus: Was that actually in the comments related to that card?17:09
nkinkadeNevermind.17:10
paulproteusBIOS DOES NOT BE INSTALLED17:10
paulproteus"    Other Thoughts: In retrospect that message was quite hilarious."17:10
paulproteushttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815280001 is VIA.17:11
paulproteusI guess I'd go for that instead of potentially fighting Silicon Image RAID fruitiness.17:11
paulproteusBut whatever, they're both fine.17:11
paulproteus</me_talking_about_sata_cards_that_are_worth_like_a_dollar>17:11
nkinkadepaulproteus: That sounds pretty reasonable.17:11
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nkinkadeAnd that someone says that it worked out-of-the-box for Hardy Heron and also FreeBSD 6.3!, that's good.17:12
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nkinkadeAnd there's even a parallel ATA interface.17:13
rejonxela2: apache rewrite rules I believe should work from lighttpd...email the list about as well...sorry, I'm a bit overloaded right now17:14
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xela2thx rejon17:17
rejonbut of course17:17
nathanybovinity: paulproteus: either of you have a USB A to mini (B?) cable?17:18
paulproteusnathany, ya17:18
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paulproteusajbrooks, BTW, rebuilding my packages for Ubuntu now.17:22
paulproteusAt least, liblicense.17:23
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rejongreg-g and tim_hwang: note, i had a last minute apple meeting so we will meet tomorrow afternoon17:43
rejonjust for that day, then shift back to morning schedule17:43
rejonweeks following17:43
rejonyou have plenty to do to fill the morning :)17:44
rejonthen we will get some of that curry for lunch17:44
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tim_hwangrejon: sure thing :)17:57
tim_hwangrejon: should we just start contacting people tomorrow? or should we hold off until we meet up?17:57
tim_hwang*tomorrow morning17:57
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rejonhold off until we meet tim_hwang and just focus on the other tasks if you get blocked on me17:58
TDJACR|away If I cite other's works in my document, can I release it under by-nc-sa17:58
paulproteusTDJACR|away, Depends what you mean "cite".17:59
paulproteusIf the included work is used in a small way like a few sentences' quotation under fair use, then its copyright does not affect the copyright of your broader work.17:59
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greg-grejon: got it18:09
rejonrock18:09
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paulproteusbovinity, Tomorrow Ubuntu CD + SATA cable?18:24
bovinityyeppers18:24
paulproteusyippers!18:24
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NotADJpaulproteus: Ping20:31
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paulproteusNotADJ, pong22:44
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