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| bov | nkinkade, so this learn staging will need its own wp-config | 00:34 |
|---|---|---|
| nkinkade | bov: sure | 00:37 |
| nkinkade | bov: i didn't create the database yet. | 00:37 |
| nkinkade | bov: i created the database and updated wp-config.php. see if that does what you need. | 00:40 |
| bov | did you pull wp-config from svn? | 00:41 |
| nkinkade | bov: no, i just used the one that happened to be there already. | 00:48 |
| bov | ahh, just copied the DB. wondered why it still had all the cc contents. :) | 00:51 |
| nkinkade | paulproteus: here is a great little RDF parser: http://infomesh.net/2003/rdfparser/ | 01:09 |
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| nkinkade | it's super simplistic and won't work in my case, i don't think, but like the doc says, it is very easy to grab triples from an RDF document, even from a URL. | 01:09 |
| paulproteus | (a) Hey nice. | 01:10 |
| paulproteus | (b) This code looks a little bit like Nathan's rdfadict; maybe he was inspired by it. | 01:10 |
| nkinkade | bov: yeah, it's just a copy of the CC db. did you need a clean db, or is it easy enough to discard what is there. | 01:10 |
| bov | it's easy enough | 01:10 |
| nkinkade | paulproteus: this right here got all the triples I wanted: | 01:10 |
| bov | having the user table pre-populated saves time too! | 01:10 |
| nkinkade | rdf_parsed = rdfxml.parseURI("http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/rdf") | 01:10 |
| paulproteus | Yippee. | 01:11 |
| nkinkade | bov: it's great that all these side effects of being lazy are turning out to be useful. | 01:11 |
| bov | haha | 01:11 |
| nkinkade | paulproteus: just thought I'd pass on what I had found there in case you hadn't seen it before, and since we were just talking about it. | 01:11 |
| paulproteus | nkinkade, Thanks - I hadn't seen it before, or at least, I don't remember it, and it does look nice and useful. | 01:12 |
| nkinkade | but unfortunately, i need more than just the straight triples. i need to pick a specific triple out based on xml:lang. | 01:12 |
| nkinkade | oh, well. | 01:12 |
| paulproteus | Well perhaps you can filter it down with a list comprehension? | 01:12 |
| nkinkade | I'm not sure that the other attributes make it through the module untouched. at first glance it seems that only the raw triples and nothing else are there. | 01:15 |
| * paulproteus grins | 01:15 | |
| paulproteus | Oh, well. | 01:15 |
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| nkinkade | i may have lied ""Atribuci\\xf3n-CompartirDerivadasIgual"@es-ar ." looks like somehow it's appended to the object part of the triple. | 01:17 |
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| rejon | rah | 03:03 |
| rejon | time to get a ridiculous iphone knockoff in china that runs linux | 03:39 |
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| paulproteus | rejo1, Howdy from across an ocean. | 08:16 |
| paulproteus | Guangdong province, eh? | 08:17 |
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| paulproteus | Howdy nathany from Indian. | 18:29 |
| paulproteus | a | 18:29 |
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| nathany | howdy paulproteus | 18:29 |
| paulproteus | BTW, I think I understand Virginia's email and it doesn't mean more delays on the XO beta. | 18:29 |
| nathany | was I cc'd on that? | 18:29 |
| nathany | (i don't recall seeing it) | 18:29 |
| paulproteus | I'll send out an email explaining, wait for her ACK, and then ship it. | 18:29 |
| nathany | great, thanks | 18:30 |
| bov | paulproteus, has ml seen it? | 18:36 |
| paulproteus | No. | 18:36 |
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| miles_ | I have a question about citations for complying with CC licenses. | 18:48 |
| miles_ | I am using CC licensed images in a for-profit publication under development. The images are found through the Flickr UI on the creativecommons.org site. | 18:49 |
| miles_ | I check the boxes to find images licensed so that the images can be modified and used in commercial works. | 18:50 |
| miles_ | My question is how to cite these images. | 18:50 |
| miles_ | The document is being developed in Powerpoint, and each page is a color, borderless layout. | 18:51 |
| bov | a credits slide at the end would work, if having the attribution beside each photo doesn't work with your layout | 18:52 |
| miles_ | Wonderful! That was my concern. | 18:53 |
| miles_ | We want to make sure to comply with all provisions. | 18:53 |
| miles_ | The other issue is that since most of the images include the Sharealike provision, that we indicate this with the CC icon at the bottom of each page, with the understanding that this means that these pages can be duplicated and shared, while the document can still be protected as a total work. | 18:55 |
| miles_ | Is that right? | 18:55 |
| miles_ | Our thought was to retain copyright control over the complete work, but allow for any given page that uses a sharealike image to be reproduced with no restrictions. | 18:56 |
| bov | yes, you still need to share the modified images | 18:58 |
| miles_ | Oh, can we protect the pages, while sharing the modified images? My understanding of the license was that any aggregate work had to also be licensed under the sharealike license. Did I misunderstand? | 18:59 |
| miles_ | We were thinking the whole page would have to be covered by the sharealike license. | 19:00 |
| miles_ | If we have a credits page(s), does that meet the requirements of the license in such a way that we don't have to display the CC symbol on each individual page? On the credits page, we could indicate each page number, followed by a list of images on the page and the corresponding license involved. | 19:02 |
| miles_ | I know some licenses require attribution. My plan was to list the URLs for the Flickr pages containing the images. My hope was that this would fulfill the attribution requirement. | 19:03 |
| miles_ | So, for each image, there would be a URL and a CC icon set showing the license type (Attribution-Sharealike, Attribution). | 19:05 |
| miles_ | It would be really helpful if the Creativecommons.org website showed examples of ways to meet the requirements of the respective licenses. | 19:09 |
| miles_ | As it is, I have consulted an IP lawyer, but I am anxious to do the citing correctly. | 19:09 |
| miles_ | Should I send these questions to a mailing list? | 19:12 |
| nkinkade | miles_: all of the licenses have an "Attribution" clause. | 19:12 |
| miles_ | Right, so I will attribute each one, but is including the flickr URL sufficient attribution? | 19:13 |
| bov | miles_, actually, we do have examples ;) http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Marking | 19:13 |
| nkinkade | miles_: as far as how to go about expressing that, the license basically specifies that you do it in at least as prominent a manner as in the original work. basically, something reasonable. | 19:13 |
| nkinkade | bov: miles_: yes, I was just about to post that link. | 19:13 |
| miles_ | nkinkade, so, does having a citation page with URLs and a license list meet the requirements? | 19:14 |
| miles_ | Do I need to show the license icons on each page that has a CC image on it? | 19:15 |
| nkinkade | miles_: bov: but i'm actually not 100% sure how the ShareAlike clause applies to the whole work when the whole work may be considered to be a collection of individual "slides" or "pages" | 19:15 |
| bov | a credits slide is fine | 19:15 |
| gavinbaker | miles_: the license basically says "reasonable attribution" so, there aren't hard-and-fast rules i don't think | 19:16 |
| gavinbaker | it seems pretty reasonable to have a credits slide with each work's author, title, URL and license | 19:16 |
| nkinkade | miles_: I suspect that a citation page would be adequate. however, since you mention that the work is a collection of pages and/or slides, something that is consumable in discrete parts, then it might be best to put the attribution right with each image. | 19:16 |
| miles_ | gavinbaker, well, I certainly wish to comply and am happy to make a sincere effort to do so. | 19:16 |
| gavinbaker | (i think those are the 4 elements specified to be attributed) | 19:16 |
| bov | license + flickr url at the bare minimum | 19:17 |
| gavinbaker | if it's reasonable in your slides, i'm sure it doesn't hurt to include those elements on each slide, underneath the image used in small text | 19:17 |
| miles_ | nkinkade, unfortunately, that would detract quite a bit. | 19:17 |
| miles_ | nkinkade, that was why I was hoping that putting the CC icons at the bottom of each page would be adequate. | 19:17 |
| nkinkade | miles_: gavinbaker: i suggest that option, because miles_ had mentioned that they were hoping to keep full copyright of some pages/slides, while sharing-alike those slides that had CC licensed images. therefore, they seemed like separate parts, in which case it could be argued that the attribution should rightly go with each slide. | 19:18 |
| miles_ | gavinbaker, I could send you a PDF showing a few pages. | 19:18 |
| miles_ | gavinbaker, there is a lot of art involved, so the icons beneath each image could be a big problem. Some pages contain mosaics of images. | 19:19 |
| miles_ | Additionally, I am using a mosaic of images to create borders on some pages. | 19:20 |
| gavinbaker | well, i think credits at the end is reasonable | 19:20 |
| nkinkade | miles_: i should give out the obligatory disclaimer that i'm not a lawyer, and that I'm just expressing some things that occur to me. it's probably good that you guys are consulting an IP lawyer. and as gavinbaker says, the licenses state that attribution should be reasonable, and in at least as prominent a way as in the original work. clearly that is somewhat open to interpretation. | 19:21 |
| miles_ | gavinbaker, that would be wonderful. | 19:21 |
| gavinbaker | nkinkade: a book or magazine that licenses images will often include all the credits in the back | 19:21 |
| gavinbaker | miles_: right, none of us are giving legal advice :) | 19:21 |
| miles_ | heh | 19:21 |
| miles_ | understood | 19:21 |
| bov | no lawyers here | 19:21 |
| miles_ | I am just looking for guidance. | 19:21 |
| gavinbaker | miles_: the most definitive guidelines are the license itself | 19:22 |
| gavinbaker | section 4(b) | 19:22 |
| miles_ | If there is a precedent for attributing licenses and sources on a separate page, that is very encouraging. | 19:22 |
| miles_ | Okay. I will check it again. | 19:22 |
| miles_ | I did read it through, but I am not a lawyer either. | 19:23 |
| nkinkade | gavinbaker: right, the problem/issue was that miles_ had mentioned that many of the images had the ShareAlike clause, and so the question was how that applied to the work as a whole if the work was make up of slides. | 19:23 |
| gavinbaker | You must ... keep intact all copyright notices for the Work and provide ... (i) the name of the Original Author ... (ii) the title of the Work if supplied; (iii) ... the URI | 19:23 |
| gavinbaker | nkinkade: the question is whether the slideshow is a "collective" work or a "derivative" work. | 19:24 |
| gavinbaker | that's an issue of national law, not of the CC license | 19:24 |
| miles_ | Actually, my question was how it applied to individual pages containing the images. My current understanding is that the individual pages that contain sharealike images must be under a sharealike-compatible license as an aggregate work. | 19:24 |
| gavinbaker | if you think that pasting in a photo makes the slideshow a derivative work, then the SA clause kicks in and applies to the whole slideshow. | 19:24 |
| nkinkade | gavinbaker: miles_ had mentioned that they wondered if it was possible to not ShareAlike slides that didn't have CC licensed images. this made me feel like the work as a whole could be considered distributable in parts, in which case the end slide with credits might not accompany the individual slide with CC licensed images. | 19:24 |
| gavinbaker | if you think that pasting in a photo makes the slideshow a collective work, then the SA clause doesn't kick in because you're not making a derivative. | 19:25 |
| miles_ | But the whole document (collection of pages) could be copyrighted with rights reserved. | 19:25 |
| bov | what's the context for your presentation? | 19:25 |
| miles_ | nkinkade, I see. | 19:25 |
| bov | is it to be distributed online? | 19:25 |
| nkinkade | gavinbaker: good points. thanks for the clarification. | 19:25 |
| miles_ | bov, it will be published on paper, and potentially distributed on CD as PDF. | 19:26 |
| nkinkade | that is, between the legal idea of a "collection" and "derivative" work. | 19:26 |
| miles_ | bov, it may be available for purchase through Lulu.com (on demand printing or CD burning). | 19:27 |
| miles_ | We anticipate distributing the finished work in spiral-bound form. | 19:28 |
| miles_ | Double-sided, full-color pages. | 19:28 |
| gavinbaker | i think that CC has taken the position before that including an image on a page doesn't result in a derivative work, but rather a collective work, so SA clause doesn't apply. | 19:28 |
| gavinbaker | i'm not sure where that position was taken though | 19:29 |
| gavinbaker | i just know that people attribute it to CC | 19:29 |
| miles_ | Interesting. | 19:29 |
| gavinbaker | but as i said, regardless of what CC claims, it's a matter of law not license | 19:29 |
| miles_ | That is an important distinction. | 19:29 |
| gavinbaker | if any of these authors got pissed and sued, it would be up to the court to decide whether you made a derivative work | 19:29 |
| gavinbaker | CC's opinion wouldn't count for much (if anything) there | 19:30 |
| bov | http://wiki.creativecommons.org/FAQ#I_don.E2.80.99t_like_the_way_a_person_has_used_my_work_in_a_derivative_work_or_included_it_in_a_collective_work.3B_what_can_I_do.3F | 19:30 |
| bov | our faq notes on collective works | 19:30 |
| gavinbaker | miles_: i hasten to add that there's an easy way out of this, which is to use BY-SA as the license for the whole slideshow :) | 19:30 |
| miles_ | :-) | 19:30 |
| bov | another out is contact the authros of the images | 19:30 |
| miles_ | Yes, we have considered that. | 19:31 |
| miles_ | bov, I expect the final document will be ~500 pages, with several images per page. | 19:31 |
| miles_ | bov, that could be quite a challenge. | 19:31 |
| bov | wow. indeed. | 19:32 |
| miles_ | bov, I will read that web page. | 19:32 |
| miles_ | bov, I have been working on this project for almost a year now. | 19:32 |
| miles_ | Thanks, everyone, for your help. | 19:33 |
| bov | there's nothing stopping you from selling and otherwise publishing the work, and keeping the whole under by-sa at the same time. | 19:33 |
| miles_ | I think I have the information I need. Now I need to study. | 19:33 |
| miles_ | bov, right. | 19:33 |
| miles_ | That may be the way we go. | 19:33 |
| miles_ | We aren't terribly concerned with someone else mass-producing the document. | 19:34 |
| miles_ | Thanks for all your help! | 19:35 |
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| miles_ | Thank god XChat saved our discussion. My laptop battery just died. I would have been in a world of hurt if I had lost this conversation. | 19:39 |
| miles_ | Take care. | 19:39 |
| gavinbaker | haha, gl miles_ | 19:40 |
| nkinkade | miles_: this channel is logged and is always available at http://mirrors.creativecommons.org/irc/cc/ | 19:43 |
| nkinkade | well, today's conversations may not be available till tomorrow. | 19:44 |
| miles_ | Yea! | 19:44 |
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| nkinkade | The logs for a give day should show up at that URL at about 00:10 UTC. | 19:48 |
| nkinkade | nathany: does the parseurl method of the rdfadict parser work okay to your knowledge? | 19:55 |
| nathany | nkinkade: AFAIK | 19:55 |
| nathany | is it behaving in a way that doesn't make sense? | 19:56 |
| nkinkade | nathany: i may have used it wrong. let me check again. | 19:56 |
| nathany | ok | 19:56 |
| nkinkade | nathany: this returns an attribute error: rdfa = parser.parseurl("http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/nl/", "http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/nl/") | 19:56 |
| nkinkade | nathany: it seems to run fine without the 2nd arg. | 19:57 |
| nathany | that makes sense, actually | 19:57 |
| nathany | IIRC (and i haven't looked @ the code yet) the second arg should be the sink to use | 19:57 |
| nathany | if not specified, it creates a new dict sink | 19:57 |
| nathany | when you use the string-based parse method, you specify a base URI; when parsing a URL, it uses that URL as the (perfectly sane) base | 19:58 |
| nkinkade | nathany: sorry, i incorrectly assume that the args were the same for parsestring and parseurl, but i can see why they wouldn't be. | 19:58 |
| nathany | no problem | 19:58 |
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| paulproteus | miles_, We do also publish a log of the channel - see the topic! | 20:20 |
| paulproteus | bov, Waaah, I can't make these widgets change color on STATE_PRELIGHT. | 20:21 |
| bov | hmm | 20:21 |
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| isforinsects | paulproteus: I got my laptop!!! | 21:02 |
| paulproteus | isforinsects, Nice! | 21:02 |
| paulproteus | Which one, the G1G1 or the dev? | 21:03 |
| isforinsects | g1g1 :) | 21:03 |
| isforinsects | I saw the fedex truck pull up and I grabbed my camera... | 21:03 |
| * paulproteus grins | 21:03 | |
| isforinsects | I got a photo of the driver coming out of the truck holding a package with a green XO on it :) | 21:04 |
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| paulproteus | Hello notagerbil. | 21:55 |
| paulproteus | Nice nick. | 21:55 |
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| notagerbil | ty | 21:55 |
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| CIA-2 | bse * r8366 /ccwordpress/trunk/www/wp-content/plugins/creativecommons/ (creativecommons-admin.php creativecommons.php): Stubs for plugin admin | 21:57 |
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| CIA-2 | nkinkade * r8367 /planet/trunk/ (6 files in 6 dirs): License plugin now uses RDFa instead of the CC API, is more generic and local-sensitive. | 22:25 |
| CIA-2 | nkinkade * r8368 /planet/trunk/software/filters/ (cc_license.plugin get_license_name.plugin): Renamed to cc_license.plugin to get_license_name.plugin to reflect generic nature. | 22:26 |
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| nkinkade | paulproteus: is it "standard" in Python to use a double indentation if you are continuing a line? | 23:59 |
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