Sunday, 2007-07-29

paulproteusgavinbaker, Wow, you sure caused a lot of scrollback.00:16
gavinbakerpaulproteus: well, it wasn't any help on my end (ultimately), but hopefully i gave some useful feedback on liblicense.00:16
paulproteusCool.00:17
paulproteusSounds like packages would sure be helpful.00:17
gavinbakerpaulproteus: right, there's a lot of dependencies, and not all of them are packaged, so it's a lot of hoops to jump through.00:18
paulproteusPerhaps I'll try to work on that on Monday.00:18
gavinbakermost people looking to slap a license on their PDF won't have that much patience -- heck, i had that much patience, and it still didn't work.00:18
gavinbakerpaulproteus: i think tannewt said s/he would take up the job on Monday, but s/he didn't sound like s/he was looking forward to it. i'm guessing s/he would appreciate your help00:19
paulproteusgavinbaker, BTW, tannewt is Scott Shawcroft from washington.edu, and a he.00:19
tannewt:-)00:20
paulproteusOh, hey now.00:20
paulproteustannewt, You want me to package it?  Shouldn't take more than an hour tops.  The hard part will be getting it into Ubuntu/Debian, but we can have our own repository for a while anyway.00:21
tannewtpaulproteus, yeah it'd be great if you could do .deb, I'll do the rpm00:21
gavinbakerpaulproteus: a .deb not in the repositories is still plenty useful.00:21
gavinbakerwith all those dependencies, it's a big step above .tar.gz00:22
gavinbakerpaulproteus: unfortunately, i don't think all of your dependencies are packaged (exempi specifically, iirc)00:22
paulproteusgavinbaker, Dude, don't worry about it, I know how to do this stuff. (-:00:22
paulproteusUm, http://creativecommons.org/license/ is bad.00:22
gavinbakerpaulproteus: just pointing out the lack of package for exempi00:23
* paulproteus nods00:23
gavinbakeri just realized how useless the "non-web" CC text will be in the probably-not-too-distant future00:23
gavinbakeri.e. if a.) the license URL changes (or the Web no longer exists, etc.)  or b.) if CC's office moves00:24
gavinbakeryou'll have a license name and no other information. that's hawt00:24
gavinbakerwith the GFDL, you'll know every minor detail about invariant sections, when the apocalypse comes (or the Web dies and FSF's office moves)00:25
* gavinbaker shuts up and eats his banana00:26
paulproteusgavinbaker, I don't quite understand what you mean.00:28
gavinbakerpaulproteus: the CC license generator offers this text to paste for use in "non-web" licensed works:00:30
gavinbakerThis work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 United States License. To view a copy of this license, visit http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/us/ or send a letter to Creative Commons, 171 Second Street, Suite 300, San Francisco, California, 94105, USA.00:30
paulproteusgavinbaker, BTW the office moved in the past few months.00:30
gavinbakerthere is no further information about what that license means. you'd better hope CC's offices haven't moved, and you can still access that URL00:30
gavinbakereither of those conditions fails, you have no way of knowing what rights or responsibilities this "license" imparts00:31
paulproteusYeah, that'd be a drag.00:31
gavinbakeri'm picturing if CC had started 10 years earlier, and referred people to a Gopher address for more info...00:32
paulproteusgavinbaker, You can bet we'd still run that Gopher service.00:32
gavinbakerwhich would be great, for the other 5 Gopher users00:32
gavinbakeri know you guys are just the code monkeys, but it'd be great to improve the "non-web" license info so that works so licensed might have useful information for more of their lifespan (which is a Long Time for printed works)00:33
gavinbakeri imagine some authors would prefer a short form that fits on their TP&V, but at least a Human Readable to paste in an appendix would be encouraging00:34
cchelpbotNOTICE: SF.net SVN: cctools: [6435] liblicense/trunk/README: Revision: 6435 http://cctools.svn.sourceforge.net/cctools/?rev=6435&view=rev Author: jakin44 Date: 2007-07-28 21:32:11 -0700 (Sat, 28 Jul 2007) Log Message: ----------- Update deps Modified Paths: -------------- liblicense/trunk/README This was sent by the SourceForge.net collaborative00:36
cchelpbotNOTICE: development platform, the world's largest Open Source development site.00:36
cchelpbotNOTICE: SF.net SVN: cctools: [6436] liblicense/trunk/README: Revision: 6436 http://cctools.svn.sourceforge.net/cctools/?rev=6436&view=rev Author: jakin44 Date: 2007-07-28 21:34:27 -0700 (Sat, 28 Jul 2007) Log Message: ----------- Let's be clear about this one Modified Paths: -------------- liblicense/trunk/README This was sent by the SourceForge.net00:36
cchelpbotNOTICE: collaborative development platform, the world's largest Open Source development site.00:36
gavinbakerpaulproteus, it'd be super if you'd reply in #freeculture. :D00:46
paulproteusI've synced up with scrollback here but haven't there yet.00:46
paulproteusChatting with housemates, reading links from scrollback, and so on.00:46
gavinbakerpaulproteus: i've been in #freeculture since before you woke up, and nothing interesting happened there. OTOH, i have 2 inquiries i'd like you to respond to, which i've reposted in the immediate scrollback.00:50
gavinbakerwhich is not to suggest that you not read scrollback there, but that it'd be great to get responses to those inquiries soon.00:50
paulproteusBut I didn't read the scrollback then, and now my roommates are chatting with me about college.00:50
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jakintannewt, what do you think about packaging nautilus-python in this release?02:31
tannewtjakin, hmm02:35
tannewtjakin, why?02:35
jakintannewt, because it's svn code and dependancies are hell02:35
tannewtjakin, do the packages for everything but gentoo work?02:36
jakintannewt, ?02:36
jakin0.4.3 packages?02:37
tannewtjakin, the ubuntu packages of nautilus-python02:37
tannewtjakin, fedora etc.02:37
paulproteusDudes, it's the weekend, isn't it? (-;02:37
tannewtpaulproteus, heh,  yeah but a busy upcoming week02:38
jakinhehe... i don't mind, given that i don't actually *have* to work during the week :-P02:38
jakinand i've been on vacation02:38
tannewtjakin, ooh, lucky you :-)02:38
paulproteusSo would you guys want help with .debs for Debian and/or Ubuntu?02:38
tannewtpaulproteus, I think ubuntu primarily02:39
paulproteusI'm happy to do some of that, even if it means packaging up non-liblicense stuff too.02:39
tannewtpaulproteus, alright, thanks02:39
paulproteusI'd much prefer to do it during real work time, though. (-:02:39
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tannewtI'd rather try and package unpackaged deps separately once and leave it to distributions to incorperate it02:40
jakintannewt, you're right... we need to find out if those packages work first.02:40
tannewtpaulproteus, yeah, thats fine, what else do you have going next week, could probably use your help on the OLPC02:40
paulproteustannewt, I think I'll have some Zope (creativecommons.org/license) stuff to do and a tiny bit of JsWidget.02:41
tannewtjakin, yeah, if its just gentoo that doesn't have then we dont need to bundle it02:41
paulproteusBTW, if anyone here can help with http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/cc-devel/2007-July/000538.html , that'd be *amazing*.02:41
tannewtpaulproteus, ah, ok, whatever, I'll see how it goes02:41
paulproteustannewt, Basically, I'll probably have time. (-:02:42
tannewtpaulproteus, sweet, the bottle neck will probably be getting documentation type stuff out of the developers02:43
paulproteusYou mean, the bottleneck will be getting you and jakin to write documentation for your own work?02:43
tannewtpaulproteus, no, OLPC journal integration02:44
paulproteusInteresting.02:44
* tannewt points paulproteus to http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Liblicense_tutorial02:44
tannewt;-)02:44
paulproteusI could probably help read Python code and tell you what documentation they would have written.02:44
tannewtpaulproteus, hehe, yeah02:44
tannewtjakin, http://wiki.jrudevels.org/index.php/Eng:J2J <- aliases02:49
jakin:-)02:49
tannewtjakin, its been on my mind recently02:50
jakintannewt, that code is going to begin looking foreign02:52
tannewtjakin, I know02:52
jakintannewt, i found the svn revision that fixes the problem (something to do with paths).  I guess when I do the ebuild I can just include a patch02:59
tannewtjakin, yeah02:59
jakinalthough it means I have to write an ebuild for it :-(03:00
tannewt:-/03:00
jakintannewt, where did we ever end up with respect to aliases?03:01
tannewtjakin, codewise?03:01
jakintannewt, well, where were we headed next?03:02
tannewtjakin, I think alias and groups then to the rules engine03:02
jakintannewt, too bad michael never could get the server up :-/03:03
tannewtjakin, yeah03:03
tannewtjakin, I dunno, I'm rethinking things in my mind03:03
jakintannewt, i talked to him about it awhile back.  i've got access to the machine indirectly through vmware, but not directly03:04
tannewtjakin, not really, code rework just higher level goals and areas of focus03:04
jakincode rework :-P03:06
jakintannewt,03:06
tannewtjakin, ack, no code rework03:06
tannewtjakin, besides whats been started03:07
* tannewt grins03:07
jakintannewt, you just lost me03:08
tannewtjakin, I'm not thinking about more code rework03:09
tannewtjakin, but if I remember right the library is half way or so out of the gui03:09
jakinwe have code rework started?  oooh... we do.... :-)03:09
tannewtjakin, whys that make you smile?03:10
jakintannewt, i just forgot about that "little" bit of code rework03:11
tannewtjakin, hehe03:11
paulproteusWhat server, BTW?03:13
jakintannewt, i think i have a bit of changes never committed relating to that03:13
Bovinitymoo03:13
tannewtpaulproteus, for one of our projects not cc related03:13
paulproteusYo Bovinity.03:14
tannewtjakin, hmm, well I'm not gonna start working on it until I get back, too much coding at the moment, just gonna think about it03:14
* jakin thinks sidestream could use a decent license chooser03:15
tannewtjakin, hehe03:15
* tannewt thinks sidestream could use a decent ui03:15
jakintannewt, :-D03:15
jakintannewt, what did our ui people do?03:16
tannewtjakin, nothing much, some sketches03:16
jakinsecret sketches...03:16
tannewtjakin, thinking about that makes me sad, I was too busy03:17
jakintannewt, :-/03:17
tannewtjakin, don't worry its not dead :-)03:24
jakintannewt, dun, dun, dun....03:25
tannewtjakin, hehe, just got more thinking to do before I embark on it again03:25
jakintannewt, what's on my mind is how not to starve over the next week03:29
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tannewtjakin, I know the feeling03:29
tannewtjakin, cereal, canned soup03:29
jakintannewt, i have a shake for dinner :-/03:29
tannewtjakin, hehe03:29
jakintannewt, even worse, i didn't make it.  i found it frozen in the freezer03:30
tannewtjakin, I think we'll go through that as a house this fall03:30
tannewtjakin, haha03:30
tannewtjakin, i was thinking we could have a pancake breakfast one saturday morning after we move in03:31
jakintannewt, i'm sure it had all i needed.  it was an odd mixture of raspberries, apple ice cream, cantalope, and pretzel.03:31
* gavinbaker lulz03:31
tannewtjakin, hehe03:31
jakintannewt, i like pancakes for dinner03:31
tannewtjakin, i had oatmeal tonight03:31
jakintannewt, i'll probably play in the kitchen this week, now that my mom isn't here to tell me i don't know how to use a kitchen03:32
jakintannewt, it's time to get away from shakes and grilled cheese sandwiches03:34
jakini've already mastered those two03:34
tannewtjakin, totally, we can master the kitchen together when you are here03:35
jakin:-D03:36
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gavinbakerhmm03:36
* gavinbaker considers a grilled cheese sandwich03:36
jakingavinbaker, do it!03:37
* gavinbaker crowdsources all future eating decisions03:37
jakin'night all03:56
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tannewtpaulproteus, tim and I are buying tickets on fandango for tonight14:48
paulproteusLet me know how much it costs so I can donate that much to the EFF.14:48
paulproteusc.f. http://luke.francl.org/lessig-challenge/14:49
paulproteusI figure now that I have an income, it'd be good to live up to this.14:49
paulproteusI guess this will make Apple hardware prohibitively expensive for me. (-:14:50
paulproteusAnyway, tannewt, that sounds good; officially Sign Me Up.14:51
tannewtpaulproteus, you have to buy it14:51
paulproteustannewt, Oh, you won't buy it for me and I'll pay you back?14:52
paulproteusBut isn't there a transaction fee?14:52
tannewtpaulproteus, nope, too late14:52
paulproteusFine, okay. (-:14:52
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paulproteusWow, a ten buck movie.14:54
paulproteusHey tvol.14:54
tvolgoodmorning dear paulproteus14:55
tvolhey, 11.50 with service fee14:55
paulproteusMan, that's real money.14:55
paulproteusThat's more than I paid for dinner last night, and more than twice as much as I paid for dinner one day last week!14:55
tvolha, yeah14:55
paulproteusAnd nearly ten times as much as I paid for dinner when my dinner was an apple fritter.14:56
cchelpbotNOTICE: SF.net SVN: cctools: [6437] liblicense/trunk/configure.ac: Revision: 6437 http://cctools.svn.sourceforge.net/cctools/?rev=6437&view=rev Author: jakin44 Date: 2007-07-29 11:49:40 -0700 (Sun, 29 Jul 2007) Log Message: ----------- Fix enabling/disabling nautilus python extension. Modified Paths: -------------- liblicense/trunk/configure.ac This was14:56
cchelpbotNOTICE: sent by the SourceForge.net collaborative development platform, the world's largest Open Source development site.14:56
paulproteusHey, any of you guys have a printer?15:00
tvolpaulproteus negative15:06
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tvolyou talking about the movie ticket?15:07
paulproteustvol, Yeah.  I know it's not necessary, just a convenience.15:07
cchelpbotNOTICE: SF.net SVN: cctools: [6438] liblicense/trunk/utils/license.c: Revision: 6438 http://cctools.svn.sourceforge.net/cctools/?rev=6438&view=rev Author: jakin44 Date: 2007-07-29 12:07:49 -0700 (Sun, 29 Jul 2007) Log Message: ----------- Read in the license we just wrote to make sure it worked Modified Paths: --------------15:07
cchelpbotNOTICE: liblicense/trunk/utils/license.c This was sent by the SourceForge.net collaborative development platform, the world's largest Open Source development site.15:07
paulproteusBjornW, Thanks for the props on the widget. (-:15:08
BjornWpaulproteus: no problem15:08
BjornWpaulproteus: did you manage to fix those IE bugs?15:08
paulproteusBjornW, Heck no.15:08
paulproteusNot yet, at least, but I'm definitely not going to bang my head against them during the weekend. (-:15:09
BjornWpaulproteus: yeah, I can imagine. Debugging IE feels like putting your face in a bowl of moody scorpions15:10
paulproteusUm.15:10
paulproteusWhile that's true, I try to think happy thoughts while doing it.15:10
paulproteusNow I'll think of that.15:10
BjornWpaulproteus: haha, I try to do the same...still MS should try to come up with better tools to debug as the situation now is horrible15:11
BjornWpaulproteus: Have you seen cameron lately?15:14
paulproteusBjornW, Not since Friday at the office.15:14
BjornWpaulproteus: k15:15
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cchelpbotNOTICE: SF.net SVN: cctools: [6439] liblicense/trunk/bindings/python/liblicense.c: Revision: 6439 http://cctools.svn.sourceforge.net/cctools/?rev=6439&view=rev Author: jakin44 Date: 2007-07-29 13:16:09 -0700 (Sun, 29 Jul 2007) Log Message: ----------- Fix jurisdiction in the license chooser python bindings Modified Paths: --------------16:18
cchelpbotNOTICE: liblicense/trunk/bindings/python/liblicense.c This was sent by the SourceForge.net collaborative development platform, the world's largest Open Source development site.16:18
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paulproteuscameronparkins, Movie?18:39
cameronparkinspaulproteus: indeed - im going18:40
cameronparkinsdid you get the email?18:40
paulproteuscameronparkins, Maybe I did and I read it and I forgot?18:40
paulproteusNo, I didn't.18:40
cameronparkinspaulproteus: hmm, it was on the staff list18:40
paulproteusI got the email announcing the movie time but not an email saying you'd go, to be clear.18:40
cameronparkinsbasically century 9 at 7:1518:40
cameronparkinsohhhhh18:41
paulproteusOh, okay, then yes I did. (-:18:41
cameronparkinsok18:41
cameronparkinsyes im coming18:41
cameronparkinsi fandango-ed my ticket. so did tim. i suggest you do as well18:41
cameronparkinssupposedly the movie has been quite popular18:41
paulproteusI did too.  I just think more Fandango fee sharing would have been good.18:41
cameronparkinsyeah, we should have coordinated18:41
cameronparkinsat least it isnt as bad as ticektmaster18:42
paulproteusAlso, mustache status?18:42
paulproteusI guess I'll see soon enough, anyway.18:42
paulproteusAnyway, it's high time for me to get dressed.18:42
cameronparkinsalright18:44
cameronparkinshaha18:44
cameronparkinsmustache is in operation18:45
gavinbakersweet18:45
gavinbakerwhat are you guys seeing?18:45
paulproteusOne of the interns made a feature-length version of Lessig's _Free Culture_.18:46
gavinbakerwhoaa18:47
gavinbakeri was thinkin simpsons or something ;)18:47
* tannewt grins18:47
gavinbakerhow do these interns have time to do anything outside of work?18:49
gavinbakeraren't they all busy running FC.o?18:49
gavinbakeri thought *all* interns did that.18:49
gavinbaker(not just me...)18:49
paulproteusgavinbaker, It's going to be pitched to the new board as a promotional item for fc.o.18:50
cchelpbotNOTICE: SF.net SVN: cctools: [6440] liblicense/trunk/src/gnome/gui_gtk.py.in: Revision: 6440 http://cctools.svn.sourceforge.net/cctools/?rev=6440&view=rev Author: jakin44 Date: 2007-07-29 15:59:44 -0700 (Sun, 29 Jul 2007) Log Message: ----------- Use the new license chooser API for the gtk widget Modified Paths: --------------19:01
cchelpbotNOTICE: liblicense/trunk/src/gnome/gui_gtk.py.in This was sent by the SourceForge.net collaborative development platform, the world's largest Open Source development site.19:01
* tannewt grins, jakin I was thinking about doing that19:03
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jakintannewt, I started a list of "issues" to take care of for 0.3: http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Liblicense_03_release_todo19:26
tannewtjakin, alright19:27
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tannewtjakin, the emblem issue is probably that your icon cache needs to be updated19:29
jakintannewt, hmm.  then that issue should be changed to: update icon cache on installation19:30
tannewtjakin, well, try it19:30
jakintannewt, um, how?19:30
tannewtjakin, gtk-update-icon-cache /usr/share/icons/hicolor/19:31
jakintannewt, no dice19:32
paulproteus(sudo?)19:33
jakinnope19:33
tannewtjakin, is that the right name of the program its off the top of my head19:33
jakintannewt, yeah, it runs.  no output19:34
paulproteuspaulproteus@alchemy:~ $ dpkg -S gtk-update-icon-cache19:34
paulproteuslibgtk2.0-bin: /usr/share/man/man1/gtk-update-icon-cache.1.gz19:34
paulproteuslibgtk2.0-bin: /usr/bin/gtk-update-icon-cache19:34
paulproteusIt sure is a GTK program.19:34
tannewtjakin, whats this issue, "Nautilus writes a license to every file whose property dialog is displayed"?19:34
tannewtjakin, give it -f to force it19:34
jakintannewt, right-click file -> properties -> close  -- writes a license19:35
jakin(the default license)19:35
tannewtjakin, yeah, what do you think it should do?19:35
jakintannewt, i'd like to say when the license changes... but i don't know since the default is already loaded19:36
jakintannewt, -f did the trick19:37
tannewtjakin, we could try and detect if they view that tab19:37
jakintannewt, how about a button that loads the default license?  i don't like the idea of automatically assigning the default license19:38
tannewtjakin, I dont know19:39
jakintannewt, well, as it is, i think it's going to surprise users.  I just realized i had been assigning licenses to a bunch of files, without ever having gone to the license tab.19:40
tannewtjakin, right, hmm19:40
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jakintannewt, fd.o spec: "This caching can make it impossible for users to add icons without having to restart applications. In order to handle this, any implementation that does caching is required to look at the mtime of the toplevel icon directories when doing a cache lookup, unless it already did so less than 5 seconds ago. This means that any icon editor or theme installation program need only to change the mtime of the the toplevel directo19:48
jakinry where it changed the theme to make sure that the new icons will eventually get used."19:48
tannewtjakin, ah so we touch /usr/share/icons/hicolor19:49
jakintannewt, yup, assuming nautilus respects the spec19:49
jakinneat, it worked19:51
paulproteusVery cool.19:51
tannewtjakin, sweet, I'm workin gon the nautilus thing19:57
jakintannewt, the first issue?19:57
tannewtjakin, yeah, writin git every time19:58
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cchelpbotNOTICE: SF.net SVN: cctools: [6441] liblicense/trunk/src/gnome/Makefile.am: Revision: 6441 http://cctools.svn.sourceforge.net/cctools/?rev=6441&view=rev Author: jakin44 Date: 2007-07-29 16:56:28 -0700 (Sun, 29 Jul 2007) Log Message: ----------- touch 'icons/hicolor' on installation in order to have the icon cache updated. Modified Paths: --------------19:59
cchelpbotNOTICE: liblicense/trunk/src/gnome/Makefile.am This was sent by the SourceForge.net collaborative development platform, the world's largest Open Source development site.19:59
tannewtjakin, there you go, only adds if the chooser was exposed20:22
cchelpbotNOTICE: SF.net SVN: cctools: [6442] liblicense/trunk/src/gnome/nautilus-liblicense. py: Revision: 6442 http://cctools.svn.sourceforge.net/cctools/?rev=6442&view=rev Author: tannewt Date: 2007-07-29 17:22:13 -0700 (Sun, 29 Jul 2007) Log Message: ----------- Only add the licens eot a file in nautilus if the chooser received an expose event (was seen).20:22
cchelpbotNOTICE: Modified Paths: -------------- liblicense/trunk/src/gnome/nautilus-liblicense.py This was sent by the SourceForge.net collaborative development platform, the world's largest Open Source development site.20:22
jakintannewt, :-)20:22
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tannewtjakin, dinner then the movie, later20:26
jakintannewt, ttyl20:26
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cchelpbotNOTICE: SF.net SVN: cctools: [6443] scicom/mta/trunk/scicom/mta_web: Revision: 6443 http://cctools.svn.sourceforge.net/cctools/?rev=6443&view=rev Author: mtravers Date: 2007-07-29 19:46:42 -0700 (Sun, 29 Jul 2007) Log Message: ----------- metadata tweaks, more work on emedded chooser Modified Paths: --------------22:50
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