Monday, 2010-08-16

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akila87paroneayea: Hi15:21
paroneayeahello akila8715:21
akila87I sent u the extension.15:23
akila87and updated the wiki
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paroneayeaakila87: wiki looks great15:42
paroneayeaakila87: thanks.15:45
paroneayeaI'm still working through some morning things but will get to putting things in the right place15:45
paroneayeaakila87: okay, so15:46
akila87paroneayea: sure :)15:47
paroneayeawe also need a wrap-up post on labs15:47
akila87I'm trying to write one :)15:50
paroneayeawe also need to:15:51
paroneayea - make a brief-ish post to cc-community mailing list15:52
paroneayea - upload the source code to google15:52
paroneayeathe page is allegedly here but it seems down:
akila87I think source code uploading is from 3oth aug15:56
paroneayeaoh yeah15:59
paroneayeahm looks like you are right :)15:59
paroneayeapencils-down is today though I think, so at the very least we need to get that pencils-down wrap-up blogpost written and the email to cc-community16:00
paroneayeaI'm currently uploading your latest .oxt to labs16:00
akila87paroneayea: you mean by today?16:03
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paroneayeaakila87: hm, I guess pencils-down means that most importantly we got the source uploaded16:04
paroneayeabut a labs post soon would be good, but today is not completely necessary.16:05
paroneayeaakila87: just tested the updated extension here16:06
paroneayealooks great16:07
akila87thanks :)16:07
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paroneayeaakila87: remember that when you *do* upload your code samples that they should be the source tarball of nothing past what you do today16:25
paroneayeaso you can keep doing coding past today, but cannot submit it in your code submission16:26
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akila87ya I just created an archive :)16:45
paroneayeaakila87: great :)16:46
akila87 paroneayea:  and I will put the blog post by tomorrow.16:46
paroneayeaakila87: fantastic :)16:47
akila87paroneayea: and about the Mac problem; the current Netbeans plugin is not compatible with mac. I revived this from the mailing list today; "There is a problem with the plugin on MacOS Leopard where Java 64bit is the default. It's a 64bit versus 32bit problem and the UNO type browser from within the plugin doesn't work. We are looking into the problem ..."16:49
paroneayeaakila87: aha!16:49
akila87paroneayea: so this will simply solve after this. btw I will try to find any workaround :)16:50
paroneayeaakila87: great, thanks16:51
akila87paroneayea: we can put the next release with that and the Nathans' idea.16:52
erlehmann is crashing my Iceweasel. Repeatedly.16:52
akila87paroneayea: and if you find any mistake in the wiki please buzz me :)16:53
paroneayeaokay, will do.  Thx for all your hard work akila87!16:53
akila87thanks paroneayea & nyergler! but still we are not done :D16:54
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erlehmannnkinkade, I am currently writing up a README, including a feature description, installation instructions and licensing details. Is there anything else for me to do in the remaining 2 hours?17:02
nkinkadeI think that should do it.  I was going to hear over to the GSoC site in a few minutes and do the final evaluation.17:03
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nkinkadeerlehmann: Oh, wait.  I have until the 20th.17:04
nkinkadeI was confusing the firm pencils-down date and the deadline for evaluations.17:04
erlehmannI'll just do the writeup then. In Markdown.17:05
nkinkadeThat means I'll probably do the eval tomorrow or the next day.17:05
erlehmannI already knew that John Gruber is not of the exceptionally bright kind (regarding Theora: "Mozilla, get with the program!"), but Markdown synthax is not that well designed at several places. Like delimiting links with round brackets.17:07
nyerglerso why are you using it then?17:09
erlehmannnyergler, GitHub supports it, and it is more plain-text readable than HTML.17:11
nyergleri see17:12
erlehmannIt is not that I think it is a bad format overall, just some choices are, well, questionable at best.17:12
erlehmannRegarding the URLs, the author did probably not bother to check what the RFC says about delimiters in plain text.17:13
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erlehmannnkinkade, what license should my stylesheets have? cc-zero?17:40
nkinkadeerlehmann: Whichever license you like, really.  BY or CC0 would be nice, though.17:41
erlehmannwith BY, each embedding site would have to give me attribution.17:42
nkinkadeCC releases all of its own work under a BY 3.0 Unported license, so it may be nice for you to do the same, but CC0 seems just fine as well.17:42
erlehmannthat I would consider ugly …17:42
nkinkadeerlehmann: CC0 is good.17:42
erlehmannokay :)17:42
erlehmannnkinkade, README is done. screenshots still need updating to accomodate for the embed button, then I will rest.17:56
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nkinkadeerlehmann: Sounds good.  Thanks.17:57
nkinkadeerlehmann: I guess I'm confused by what you mean by a "php-based web server" for the embed button.18:15
erlehmannnkinkade, look into embed-helper.php.18:15
erlehmannIf it isn't a small web server, what is it?18:16
nkinkadeerlehmann: where is that file located?18:17
erlehmannnkinkade, in the same directory as wordpress-cc-plugin.php18:17
erlehmanndo you have git HEAD on your machine?18:18
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nkinkadeerlehmann: I do now.18:20
nkinkadeerlehmann:  Can you briefly describe what that file does and why it's necessary?18:21
erlehmannnkinkade, it serves the Access-Control-Allow-Origin header to allow <audio> and <video> files to be served on other sites.18:21
erlehmannnkinkade, it also serves the X-Content-Duration header so that a browser knows how long (in seconds) a media file is.18:22
erlehmannWhen a browser knows that, it can display a timeline slider. To server that, it can do range-requests too.18:23
nkinkadeerlehmann: Why not just let the browser and web server negotiate those things on their own?18:24
erlehmannIt all is a workaround for people not being able to set up their .htaccess for this use case.18:24
erlehmannAlso, my web hoster said that there is no suitable apache extension for serving X-Content-Duration.18:25
erlehmannwhich would lead to unneccessary range seeks to the end of the file.18:25
erlehmannIt may be quite an overly long hack, but it works as intended, as far as I can tell.18:26
erlehmannAlso, it is not triggered at all for images, because they have no same-origin restrictions.18:27
nkinkadeerlehmann: Alright.  I guess I'm still a little confused about why any of those headers would really be vital enough to write code around it.18:27
nkinkadeBut as long as it works and does what you intended, then that's okay.18:27
erlehmannWithout "Access-Control-Allow-Origin: *" site B absolutely cannot include multimedia content from site A, with the exception of images (because their use was widespread before the same-origin policy was formulated)18:28
erlehmannthe rest is just niceties that fit in because, hey, when I make a web server to serve a *single* header, it may as well be a bit more useful.18:28
erlehmannmy first implementation was like header('Access-Control-Allow-Origin:*'); readfile($file);18:29
erlehmannwhich probably loads the whole file into memory and all.18:30
paroneayeanyergler: so for the pdmark urls, do we know where we want these to be?18:31
paroneayeafor the chooser, /choose/pdmark or18:31
paroneayea/pdmark/choose? or just /pdmark/ ?18:32
paroneayeasame questions for the deed18:32
erlehmann15 min for new screenshots *the suspense*18:42
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Ahmuck-Srhi.  i've got some questions18:44
Ahmuck-Sri'm taking some public domain material and transcribing it into electronic format.  i'd like to see it remain public domain.  as i understand copyright law, anybody can take public domain material, change it slightly, and then re-copyright it.  correct?18:45
nyerglerparoneayea, let's start with /choose/mark; i'm assuming it's easy to switch to something like /choose/pdmark later if needed18:45
paroneayeanyergler: yeah it's no difficulty18:45
nyerglerAhmuck-Sr, it has to contain sufficient creativity to qualify for a new copyright18:45
Ahmuck-Srlet's assume it does, and based on that idea, there ends up being 30 copies, each one with sufficient creativity18:46
Ahmuck-Srall the same name, how does a normal person then find which one is public domain to prevent copyright infringment upon the others?18:47
nyerglervery carefully :)18:47
Ahmuck-Srtherein lies the problem.  with enough copies, confusion, adding to cost of locating public domain works, locking out public domain works from the public18:48
nyerglerright, one of many problems surrounding digital PD18:48
Ahmuck-Sris there a way with cc to "lock" the copyright of all derivities of the transcribed work?  forcing the new sufficient creativity to re-create or create thier own transcription and tyepsetting from scratch?18:49
nyergleri don't think so18:49
Ahmuck-Sris it possible to put a restriciton on CC works something like, this was transcribed from a public domain work, however if you'd like to use this electronic copy and copywrite your changes you must transcribe the work yourself?18:52
Ahmuck-Srif you'd like to use this transcribed electronic copy of a public work, make creative changes to it and continue using the original transcribed electronic copy then you must release your changes back into public domain?18:53
nyerglerNo; the only CC licenses that dictate the license of future derivatives are the Share-Alike licenses18:54
Ahmuck-Srlet me look at CC SA more carefully.  i'd like to impose the restriction that if the party chooses to use the work (transcription/typesetting) without creating thier own file, they must contribute their changes back to public domain upon publication.  in particular, i'm thinking about old songs, and the amount of labor & time required to typeset them18:57
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erlehmannnkinkade, new screenshots are in.18:59
Ahmuck-Srthe CC lisense then would only apply to the electronic transcription, not to the public work itself18:59
* Ahmuck-Sr notices the public work FAQ18:59
nyerglerAhmuck-Sr, it would apply to whatever your copyright applies to19:02
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paroneayeanyergler: what branch does hudson test again?  master or next?20:01
paroneayeabecause I wonder if changes ended up breaking the test suite if they'd be caught in the pdmark branches20:02
nyerglerparoneayea, right now just master, iirc20:02
nyerglersend me an email and i can reconfigure/look20:02
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paroneayeanyergler: another question.  It makes sense that the license passed into the pdmark Formatter's format method should be cc.license.by_code('publicdomain'), yes?20:44
paroneayeaeven though it doesn't really get used in the pdmark's case :)20:44
paroneayeaby convention I mean20:44
paroneayeaunless we plan on making new rdfa for the public domain mark (I suspect no?)20:45
paroneayeaer, rdf20:45
nyerglerparoneayea, i think we need new RDF20:59
nyerglerthe RDF for publicdomain has the wrong canonical URL20:59
nyerglerseems like a host of problems lurking there20:59
paroneayeanyergler: ah, okay21:01
nyerglerparoneayea, i suggest just creating RDF stub for the moment with the correct URI21:03
nyergler(make sense?)21:03
paroneayeanyergler: yup21:08
nkinkadeakozak: You available?21:59
akozaknkinkade, yes21:59
nkinkadeakozak: I just upgraded the wiki to 1.16.0 ... would you mind poking around the SMW related stuff to make sure there is no obvious breakage? :-)22:00
akozaknkinkade, sure22:00
nkinkadeAnd just generally that nothing seems out of place.  You are much more familiar with the wiki than I am in general.22:00
akozaknkinkade, I'm going to run a data update job first22:00
akozakshouldn't take too long, just a few minutes22:00
nkinkadeakozak: SWMAdmin?22:00
akozaknkinkade, yes and then speed it up with runjobs.php22:01
nkinkadeCool.  Thanks.22:01
akozaki never really understood runJobs.php... it seems to just stop at random times22:02
akozakregardless of whether you set --maxjobs22:02
JED3nyergler: should we add metadata_scraper to hudson?22:03
akozaknkinkade, haven't found any breakage yet22:04
nkinkadeakozak: I've been poking around too and things are seeming okay.  Thanks for looking around.22:04
akozaknkinkade, no problem. iirc 1.16 didn't change much.22:06
akozakI don't know why it took over a year to release22:06
akozakmight have been vector and other usability initiative stuff22:06
nyerglerJED3, yes; does it use nose?22:16
JED3nyergler: yes22:18
nyerglerparoneayea, ping22:23
paroneayeanyergler: gnop22:24
nyerglerparoneayea, what projects do you want the pdmark branch added to?22:24
paroneayeanyergler: cc.license, license.rdf, cc.engine22:24
paroneayea(I have yet to push license.rdf with pdmark, but will in a few)22:25
nyerglerJED3, does metadata_scraper get a bin/nosetests wrapper when you run buildout?22:25
JED3nyergler: yes22:26
nyerglerparoneayea, hudson reconfigured22:27
paroneayeanyergler: yay22:27
nyerglerJED3, i forget, is the scraper still in svn?22:28
JED3nyergler: yes, as metadata_scraper22:29
JED3paroneayea: are you using the babel.git in cc.i18n?22:29 I really, really hate the by_code logic in cc.license22:29
paroneayeait's such a mess.22:29
paroneayeaInstead of just doing an RDF query and constructing the license, it loops through every selector calling the selector's own by_code, which passes the code, license and version to cc.license._lib.dict2uri to get the license uri, which is itself a terrible series of hacks to guess a license uri based on those parameters which has to be modified every time a non-standard license is added, and after it gets that uri back the selector sees22:33
paroneayeaif it has a license with that uri.22:33
nyerglerparoneayea, JED3, Hudson is either running or has completed your builds with the new config:
paroneayeanyergler: great :)22:38
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JED3paroneayea: ping22:54
paroneayeaJED3: pong22:54
JED3any idea why this might be happening?
JED3scroll to the bottom22:55
paroneayeaJED3: weird22:55
paroneayeawell there's a very small chance of a race condition...22:55
nyerglerJED3, paroneayea, is it possible that the i18n rebuild cron job took away the sdist after buildout resolved it, but before it was retrieved?22:55
paroneayeaif the buildout detected which one it should remove *right* before it removed it22:56
paroneayeait's such a small window though22:56
nyerglerparoneayea, is it? if it was doing a full lxml build, etc, that's a larger window22:57
nyergler(the last build took 8 minutes)22:57
paroneayeanyergler: oh yeah22:57
paroneayeayou're right22:57
paroneayeait probably looks for which packages to fetch before it fetches any?22:57
nyergleri'm re-running now, going to see if it works on this pass (since it doesn't start from scratch)22:57
paroneayeaone way we could remove that window22:58
paroneayeais have a separate cronjob that runs every night that wipes out all the old cc.i18n releases from the previous day22:58
paroneayeaexcept for one if necessary22:58
nyergleryeah, it grabbed the sdist this time22:58
nyergler(still building)22:58
nyerglerbuild is green :)22:59
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nkinkadeakozak: I just upgraded Teamspace ... are we doing anything SMW-related there these days?23:14
nyerglernkinkade, can you make the default theme for Teamspace vector please?23:15
akozaknkinkade, there are a bunch of legacy templates and forms but i don't know if it's much in use23:15
akozakwell maybe not a "bunch"  but some23:15
nkinkadenyergler: I just changed it to vector, but I can't see any noticeable difference.23:16
akozaknkinkade, you might have to force-update all user preferences23:16
akozakI think there's a new LocalSettings option23:16
akozaklet me check23:16
nkinkadeakozak: It looks like user pages aren't working:
akozaknkinkade, yea I don't know how long it's been since SMW and Forms have been updated on TS23:18
nkinkadeakozak: Updating SemanticForms seems to have fixed it.23:18
akozaknkinkade, looks like you're overdue by a couple years on a few tasks :P23:19
nkinkadeApparently. :-)23:19
nkinkadeOur usage of SMW on Teamspace took a nose dive around 1.5 or 2 years ago.23:20
akozaknkinkade, so basically i think you're going to have to run a maintenance script to change all skin preferences to vector23:20
akozakbecause the usual default skin config option only changes the default choice for new users23:20
nkinkadeakozak: Do you know which script that is and how to run it?23:20
nkinkadenyergler: Why vector, by the way.23:21
akozaknkinkade, I'll have to look it up, one second23:21
nkinkadeI know nothing about it, but presumably you have a reason other than just looks.23:21
nyerglernkinkade, performance, usability, better watchlist support23:22
nyerglerif it's lots of trouble, don't worry, i just think it'd be nice to live in the future23:22
paroneayeanyergler: JED3:
paroneayeaI'm out, at least for a bit23:24
nkinkadeakozak: I found it:
nkinkadeI'll try running that.23:26
akozaknkinkade, yes that's it. I was trying to re-parse out the command looking at the maintenance page docs directly :P23:26
akozakUsage for <skin> (default: 'vector'):23:27
akozak 66 user(s): 'monobook'23:27
akozak 21 user(s): ''23:27
akozak 1 user(s): 'modern'23:27
akozak 1 user(s): 'cc'23:27
akozakso a simple replace for monobook might not catch all23:27
akozakall users*23:27
nkinkadeakozak: Hmmm.  It didn't seem to work.23:30
nkinkadeWhat is your default skin now?23:30
akozaknkinkade, still monobook23:30
nkinkadeThe script output showed success, but my own skin is still Monobook23:30
akozaknkinkade, did you accidentally run it on the cc wiki? :P23:31
nkinkadeakozak: Nope.23:31
akozaknkinkade, interesting:23:31
akozakUsage for <skin> (default: 'vector'):23:31
akozak 1 user(s): 'modern'23:31
nkinkadeakozak: What's that?23:31
akozakapparently skin is only set for 1 user now23:31
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akozakphp userOptions.php skin --usage23:32
nkinkadeakozak: And yet the output of the script showed this, for example:23:33
nkinkadeSetting skin for Nathan Kinkade from 'monobook' to 'vector'):  OK23:33
akozakhow about we run the maintenance script to check that the wiki has all the necessary db tables23:35
akozakits harmless if it does23:35
akozakhm ok23:36
akozaknkinkade, interestingly, I changed my skin preference to vector23:37
nkinkadeakozak: How?23:37
akozakbut it didn't show up in --usage23:37
akozakthrough my preferences23:37
nkinkadeIt would almost appear that that script is busted.23:39
akozaknkinkade, it's possible since one of the big 1.16 changes was an overhaul of the maintenance scripts23:41
nkinkadeI imagine I can probably run a SQL query to change everyone's theme faster than I can debug that script.23:41
akozaknkinkade, should we file a bug?23:45
akozakor a note on the wiki pages' discussion page?23:46
nkinkadeakozak:  That would be the nice things.  Are you up for it?23:46
akozaknkinkade, sure, but I'm not sure how to best document it. could you send me the exact call to userOptions you made?23:46
akozakand I wouldn't know how to describe what happened, since I don't really know :P23:47
nkinkadeakozak: I made 3 calls:23:49
nkinkade$ php userOptions.php skin --old monobook --new vector23:49
nkinkadeAnd then the same call with '' in place of monobook and 'cc' too.23:49
akozaknkinkade, ok thanks, in the process of filing23:50
akozaknkinkade, is it possible you were actually supposed to run it with quotes23:51
akozak"monobook" "vector"23:51
akozaknow php userOptions.php skin --usage shows nothing :P23:54

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