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| foo_ | just wondering if someone could help me here | 03:01 |
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| foo_ | ? | 03:01 |
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| rjcp | Salut. | 14:44 |
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| paulproteus | nyergler: For the call, we'll ring you at the office at 8 your time? | 14:57 |
| nyergler | paulproteus, sure | 14:58 |
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| nyergler | paulproteus, see http://www.debian.org/CD/http-ftp/#stable | 15:01 |
| nyergler | http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/5.0.4/i386/bt-cd/ | 15:02 |
| paulproteus | 5.0.5 was released ca. 2d ago | 15:02 |
| akila87 | hello paroneayea, | 15:08 |
| paroneayea | heya akila87 | 15:11 |
| paroneayea | how's it going | 15:11 |
| akila87 | I used nyergler suggestion about tabs. | 15:12 |
| akila87 | i updated the svn too | 15:12 |
| akila87 | wait i'll send you the screen shots | 15:13 |
| paroneayea | :) | 15:15 |
| paroneayea | akila87: sounds great. How about doing a blog post on this update? | 15:15 |
| akila87 | sure ill post it by tomorrow. | 15:16 |
| akila87 | sorry I didn't wrote it for two weeks :( | 15:16 |
| paroneayea | it's ok... but now we have a very good blogpost to make and we shouldn't waste the opportunity :) | 15:19 |
| paroneayea | also, I'm the first in #cc to mention the Bilski court ruling :B :B :B | 15:21 |
| akila87 | :) | 15:21 |
| akila87 | http://picasaweb.google.com/akila.wajirasena/CreativeCommonsBlog#5487844998769671682 | 15:21 |
| akila87 | http://picasaweb.google.com/akila.wajirasena/CreativeCommonsBlog#5487844998565464930 | 15:22 |
| akila87 | http://picasaweb.google.com/akila.wajirasena/CreativeCommonsBlog#5487845004759376978 | 15:22 |
| akila87 | http://picasaweb.google.com/akila.wajirasena/CreativeCommonsBlog#5487845006821292530 | 15:22 |
| paroneayea | Looks *very* nice akila87! | 15:22 |
| akila87 | thanks | 15:23 |
| akila87 | you can scroll the legal code | 15:23 |
| akila87 | but this theme doesn't show the scroll bar | 15:23 |
| akila87 | and some times the buttons in the top can be little ugly. | 15:24 |
| akila87 | we cannot use actual tabs for that.Currently SDK doesn't support for tabs. | 15:25 |
| akila87 | nyergler, what do you think? | 15:26 |
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| nyergler | The lack of scrollbar is weird | 15:28 |
| nyergler | not sure if there's anything to be done about it | 15:28 |
| paroneayea | you can still scroll with the middle mouse wheel I assume? | 15:29 |
| nyergler | akila87, so when you say the buttons can be a little ugly, do you mean that certain themes make them look bad? | 15:29 |
| akila87 | ya sometimes. | 15:30 |
| nyergler | Hrm | 15:30 |
| nyergler | I think these screen shots look great and that we should publish an XPI and ask for feedback | 15:30 |
| nyergler | my one piece of feedback is the dialog title | 15:30 |
| nyergler | people will almost certainly point out that CC0/Public Domain are not "licenses" | 15:30 |
| greg-g | hey, those things aren't licenses, they're waivers! | 15:31 |
| * greg-g smiles | 15:31 | |
| nyergler | I wonder if something like "Sharing & Reuse Permissions" or "Copyright <something>" would work better | 15:31 |
| nyergler | thank you, greg-g; i can always count on you ;) | 15:31 |
| greg-g | just doing my job | 15:32 |
| akila87 | this is the worst case http://picasaweb.google.com/akila.wajirasena/CreativeCommonsBlog#5487847546518934210 | 15:32 |
| nyergler | akila87, worst case in terms of buttons? | 15:32 |
| nyergler | (also, "Creative" is mis-spelled in that one ;) ) | 15:32 |
| akila87 | greg-g, you mean the title? I'll change that :) | 15:32 |
| akila87 | nyergler, yes | 15:33 |
| akila87 | nyergler fixing... :) | 15:33 |
| paroneayea | worst case wise that doesn't look too horrible | 15:41 |
| nyergler | concur | 15:41 |
| paroneayea | nyergler: is it okay timing for me to try to bring sanity back up now? | 15:47 |
| nyergler | sure | 15:48 |
| nyergler | nkinkade, we want the amd64 version of debian, right? | 15:48 |
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| paroneayea | sigh | 15:55 |
| paroneayea | giving this another minute then I'm setting it back to the old engine | 15:55 |
| paroneayea | I don't know why this happens. Only on live, sanity sometimes seems to take forever to come up, if it does at all. | 15:56 |
| paroneayea | once it does there are no problems. | 15:57 |
| nkinkade | nyergler: I'm not sure. Was the machine you bought 64 bit? | 15:58 |
| nkinkade | I don't recall that it was, but it surely could be. | 15:59 |
| nyergler | paroneayea, interesting that we see lots of scraper.fcgi instances in the process list, no ccengines (like i'd expect) | 15:59 |
| nyergler | nkinkade, yes, it's a Core i3 | 15:59 |
| paroneayea | nyergler: well I just reverted things | 15:59 |
| paroneayea | so that might be why | 15:59 |
| nyergler | paroneayea, right... do we have any information about where it's hanging? | 16:00 |
| nyergler | does LogLevel debug give any useful information? | 16:00 |
| paroneayea | I haven't tried that. My next plan is to try mounting at cc.engine-fcgi *without* pointing any of the urls there | 16:00 |
| paroneayea | with the old zope engine up | 16:01 |
| paroneayea | just to see if it's accessible through fcgi in general | 16:01 |
| paroneayea | after that I'll check the LogLevel if necessary | 16:01 |
| nyergler | ok | 16:02 |
| paroneayea | http://creativecommons.org/ccengine-fcgi/choose/ | 16:02 |
| paroneayea | well that's working | 16:02 |
| paroneayea | when I reload the server it doesn't work for about 10 seconds | 16:03 |
| paroneayea | my *suspicion* is | 16:03 |
| paulproteus | I suggest 32bit operating systems with 64 bit kernels. | 16:03 |
| paulproteus | (on 64b hardware, which all modern hardware is) | 16:03 |
| paroneayea | during that period we get a request pileup that overwhelms things and makes the server hard to start up | 16:03 |
| nyergler | paulproteus, didn't we go through the epic struggle to get on 64b on our other boxes? or was that just to get a 64b kernel? | 16:04 |
| paulproteus | Oh, right, that was for Varnish. | 16:04 |
| paulproteus | Yeah, for Varnish you want a 64b userland. | 16:04 |
| paulproteus | Yeah, clearly you should just do a 64b userland, since any performance gains you get from being smaller don't matter on this machine, and Life Is Easy on 64b | 16:05 |
| paulproteus | (unless you have proprietary 32b-only stuff you want to run) | 16:05 |
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| nyergler | right | 16:05 |
| nyergler | we don't | 16:05 |
| * paulproteus nods. | 16:05 | |
| nyergler | paroneayea, that sounds plausible to me | 16:05 |
| nyergler | paroneayea, i suspect that it's a combination of requests + heavy start up (ie, loading large RDF files) | 16:06 |
| nkinkade | nyergler: Sounds like you and paulproteus came to a conclusion. :-) | 16:06 |
| nyergler | we did :) | 16:06 |
| paulproteus | (-; | 16:06 |
| paroneayea | http://creativecommons.org/ccengine-fcgi/choose/ is now coming up really fast | 16:07 |
| paroneayea | I'm not sure how to resolve this problem | 16:07 |
| paroneayea | I mean, I could restart at midnight my time when there's probably a lower request level(?) but | 16:08 |
| paroneayea | that's a scary scenario if we can only restart at midnight. | 16:08 |
| paulproteus | You could use Varnish to do to the switchover. | 16:09 |
| paulproteus | I suppose. | 16:09 |
| paroneayea | paulproteus: clarification? | 16:10 |
| nyergler | i suspect paulproteus isn't aware we're moving from independent server to fcgi | 16:11 |
| nyergler | (or were trying to) | 16:11 |
| paroneayea | yeah | 16:11 |
| paulproteus | Step 1, move from indy server to fcgi in Apache, keeping FCGI at ccengine-fcgi/choose/ | 16:11 |
| paulproteus | Step 2, Yay, Apache has finished starting | 16:11 |
| paulproteus | Step 3, Have Varnish does URL rewriting of /license/ to /ccengine-fcgi/choose/ | 16:11 |
| paulproteus | That way Apache is already live | 16:11 |
| paulproteus | But maybe that's not enough | 16:11 |
| paroneayea | oh. | 16:12 |
| paroneayea | well that might work for the /choose/ kinds of things | 16:12 |
| nyergler | paroneayea, i concur that "restart at midnight" is no way to live | 16:12 |
| paroneayea | nyergler: I wish I could set the topic to that line | 16:12 |
| paulproteus | Oh, so I guess I'm saying keep running the indy server in steps 1-3, and once Varnish has been updated to do URL rewriting, then you can disable it | 16:12 |
| paroneayea | sadly nobody appears to have ops here | 16:12 |
| paroneayea | paulproteus: what I meant is the way that we do "deed caching" now: | 16:13 |
| paroneayea | http://dpaste.com/212356/ | 16:13 |
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| paroneayea | static files written to disk, served through apache if they've been written, routed to the engine if not | 16:14 |
| paroneayea | the engine caches the deeds on-render now | 16:14 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o nathany | 16:15 | |
| paroneayea | so hence why I said I think it would work for /choose & dynamic friends, but maybe not for varnish? | 16:15 |
| paroneayea | unless we could port that logic to varnish | 16:15 |
| paroneayea | I don't know if that is possible or not. | 16:15 |
| *** nathany sets mode: +o paroneayea | 16:15 | |
| *** paroneayea changes topic to "Creative Commons FAQ http://creativecommons.org/faq/ :: chat logs -> http://mirrors.creativecommons.org/irc/cc/ :: No answer? Email the lists - http://creativecommons.org/discuss :: This channel has nothing to do with credit cards. Sorry scammers. :: <nyergler> paroneayea, i concur that "restart at midnight" is no way to live" | 16:15 | |
| paroneayea | thx nathany :) | 16:16 |
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| paulproteus | Oh, I see. | 16:18 |
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| paulproteus | You could use " MaxProcessCount 5" or somesuch in mod_fcgid so that at least FCGID won't fall over | 16:19 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o nyergler | 16:19 | |
| paulproteus | (copied from e.g. http://2bits.com/articles/apache-fcgid-acceptable-performance-and-better-resource-utilization.html ) | 16:19 |
| paulproteus | Then things will be really slow at first, until Varnish caches them. | 16:19 |
| nyergler | paroneayea, what's MaxProcessCount right now? | 16:20 |
| paulproteus | ...I guess you could start having Varnish cache things right now, actually, and fill its cache by having Varnish cache the Apache cache | 16:20 |
| paroneayea | MaxProcessCount 500 :) | 16:20 |
| paulproteus | And then when Varnish's cache is nice and full, do the switchover. | 16:20 |
| paulproteus | Those are my thoughts for now. | 16:21 |
| nyergler | paroneayea, i haven't been following the exchange with paulproteus that closely | 16:22 |
| nyergler | but might i suggest that 500 is insane :) | 16:22 |
| paulproteus | b | 16:22 |
| paroneayea | I don't understand it well enough to understand varnish caching much. But I'll lower it from the "insane" 500 value :) | 16:23 |
| nyergler | i wonder if we'd have better luck with, say 25 -- that way we're only trying to spin up 25 instances | 16:23 |
| paroneayea | ok | 16:23 |
| paroneayea | I'll try that. | 16:23 |
| paroneayea | oh as a side note | 16:23 |
| nyergler | paroneayea, i'm not sure the issue has anything to do with varnish; i think paulproteus was just trying to mitigate the issue using varnish | 16:23 |
| paroneayea | ah | 16:23 |
| paulproteus | (Right) | 16:23 |
| nyergler | i think your assessment is correct, paroneayea: it's getting flooded with requests and trying to bring things up | 16:24 |
| paroneayea | okay. I set it at 25 | 16:24 |
| paroneayea | let's see how well it comes back up | 16:24 |
| paroneayea | http://creativecommons.org/choose/ :D | 16:25 |
| nyergler | huh, that seems to have worked? | 16:25 |
| paroneayea | yup :) | 16:26 |
| nyergler | paroneayea, glad to hear it :) | 16:26 |
| paroneayea | looks nice and fast too. | 16:26 |
| paulproteus | Yaay! | 16:26 |
| paroneayea | :D | 16:26 |
| paroneayea | thx paulproteus, nyergler :) | 16:27 |
| nyergler | sure | 16:27 |
| paulproteus | (-: | 16:28 |
| nyergler | nkinkade, is "backup" an OK hostname for the new machine? | 16:28 |
| nyergler | also, paulproteus, does the debian installer expect the fully qualified hostname (just curious)? | 16:28 |
| paulproteus | I think it's best to use one, but not necessary. | 16:28 |
| nyergler | right | 16:28 |
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| paulproteus | I mean, rather, you should just "rose" in the hostname box but make sure "makesad.us" is in the top of /etc/resolv.conf later | 16:28 |
| paulproteus | The field you enter there is what the prompt says you're on. | 16:29 |
| nyergler | oh, ok | 16:29 |
| nyergler | paulproteus, one more debian question if you don't mind (actually more of an opinion question) | 16:33 |
| nyergler | LVM -- yes/no? | 16:34 |
| paulproteus | I... uh... yes. | 16:34 |
| nkinkade | nyergler: "backup" is fine with me. | 16:34 |
| nkinkade | How does LVM get along with a single RAID array? | 16:35 |
| nkinkade | paulproteus: ^^ | 16:35 |
| paulproteus | Just do LVM on top of the RAID block device. | 16:36 |
| paulproteus | Then it gets along "fine" | 16:36 |
| nyergler | nkinkade, i think it'd just run on top of RAID + the root device | 16:36 |
| nyergler | (since we're talking about doing the root filesystem on the 160G drive, right?) | 16:36 |
| paulproteus | except that (when last I checked) fsync() doesn't work all the way through LVM and Linux MD? | 16:36 |
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| paulproteus | But that's hearsay (I don't have a source) and I don't actually care anyway. | 16:37 |
| nkinkade | nyergler: Yeah, as far as I knew the plan was to install Debian on the 160G drive. | 16:37 |
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| will | hello | 17:33 |
| nyergler | hi will | 17:33 |
| akila87 | nyergler, paroneayea how's this http://picasaweb.google.com/akila.wajirasena/CreativeCommonsBlog#5487856031018046962 http://picasaweb.google.com/akila.wajirasena/CreativeCommonsBlog#5487878621247993298 | 17:34 |
| nyergler | akila87, i like it | 17:34 |
| will | where can I get the CC-BY-SA 3.0 in plain text format? | 17:38 |
| paroneayea | akila87: looks good :) | 17:38 |
| nyergler | paulproteus, suggestions on what to do if grub-install fails, complaining it can't read /boot/grub/stage1 correctly? | 17:41 |
| nyergler | will, we don't have plain text readily available right now | 17:42 |
| nyergler | you can get minimally-styled HTML at http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/legalcode-plain | 17:42 |
| nyergler | er, http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/legalcode-plain | 17:42 |
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| Krinkle | at Wikimedia Commons somsone created a cc-template for Colombia ('co'). Everything seemed to go well untill we checked the links to creativecommons.org | 17:43 |
| Krinkle | http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/co/ | 17:43 |
| Krinkle | 404 error | 17:43 |
| Krinkle | help ? | 17:43 |
| paroneayea | Krinkle: that could be a regression. Looking, 1sec | 17:44 |
| nyergler | Krinkle, Columbia is @ 2.5, not 3.0 | 17:44 |
| Krinkle | any reason ? | 17:44 |
| nyergler | Krinkle, see http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/co/ | 17:44 |
| paroneayea | oh, not a regression then :) | 17:44 |
| nyergler | they haven't ported to 3.0 yet | 17:44 |
| nyergler | we rely on teams of legal volunteers to handle the porting process | 17:44 |
| Krinkle | But the 'human readable' version hasn't changed from 2.5 to 3.0 right ? | 17:45 |
| nyergler | the human readable version is the same; the legalcode differs | 17:45 |
| nyergler | Krinkle, see http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/7249 for an overview of what changed from 2.5 to 3.0 | 17:46 |
| Krinkle | is there some central page (table ?) with what's ported and what not ? | 17:46 |
| Krinkle | :) | 17:46 |
| nyergler | Krinkle, as in what version different jurisdictions are at? | 17:46 |
| Krinkle | yup, which others are not 3.0 yet but were in 2.5 | 17:46 |
| nyergler | Krinkle, unfortunately we don't have a table :/ http://creativecommons.org/international lets you look at an individual jurisdiction and see the latest version | 17:47 |
| Krinkle | cause that could mean we have more 404 erros withhout knowing at Wikimedia Commons in the licenses | 17:47 |
| nyergler | Krinkle, we're working on getting a bunch of that information up in the wiki; probably later this summer | 17:48 |
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| nyergler | Krinkle, we have the information in RDF if you're interested in that... it'd just take some code to check things | 17:50 |
| Krinkle | nyergler: No, it's alright. Whenever a new translation pop's up users will notice and restore the templates. | 17:50 |
| nyergler | ok | 17:51 |
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| nkinkade | paroneayea: Did you re-launch the new cc.engine? | 18:07 |
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| paroneayea | nkinkade: yes | 18:07 |
| paroneayea | I haven't shut down the old one yet | 18:07 |
| paroneayea | I should do that now | 18:07 |
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| paroneayea | done | 18:16 |
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| will | nyergler: Is it on a todo list? | 18:46 |
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| paroneayea | nyergler: ping me when you aren't at lunch or whatever | 19:22 |
| nyergler | paroneayea, ping | 19:59 |
| nyergler | will, no | 20:00 |
| nyergler | will, the XHTML version is the canonical version; we might do txt at some point, not slated for engineering yet | 20:00 |
| paroneayea | nyergler: | 20:06 |
| paroneayea | 1 2 | 20:06 |
| paroneayea | | | 20:06 |
| paroneayea | o | | 20:06 |
| paroneayea | |.' | | 20:06 |
| paroneayea | ' | | 20:06 |
| paroneayea | '. | | | 20:06 |
| paroneayea | | | 20:06 |
| paroneayea | PONG | 20:06 |
| paroneayea | have time for a phone call re: the RDF deployment stuff? | 20:06 |
| nyergler | paroneayea, sure, a quick one; can i call you in a couple minutes after I finish writing this email? | 20:07 |
| paroneayea | nyergler: for sure | 20:07 |
| nyergler | paroneayea, pm me the # to call? | 20:07 |
| paroneayea | sure | 20:07 |
| paroneayea | okay | 20:14 |
| paroneayea | phone definitely screwed | 20:14 |
| paroneayea | sigh | 20:14 |
| paroneayea | thought it would be quicker to discuss via phone but I'll write it up | 20:14 |
| nyergler | paroneayea, ok, i have a coffee mtg offsite @ 145, but i'll look for the email | 20:15 |
| paroneayea | kk | 20:15 |
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| nkinkade | mralex: I just upgraded WP. | 20:59 |
| nkinkade | Things are working, seemingly, except for international pages. | 20:59 |
| mralex | nkinkade: on staging or production? | 20:59 |
| nkinkade | mralex: Production. | 20:59 |
| nkinkade | It would appear that something is broken with the worldwide plugin, I would guess. | 20:59 |
| nkinkade | Though I suppose it could be an API issue. | 20:59 |
| mralex | which international pages are you seeing problems? | 21:00 |
| nkinkade | mralex: All that was implemented before I got to CC, so I'm not totally sure how it all fits togehter. | 21:00 |
| mralex | it appears fine for me | 21:00 |
| nkinkade | mralex: The license lists aren't showing up. | 21:00 |
| mralex | oh, right, yeah | 21:00 |
| nkinkade | http://creativecommons.org/international/ec/ | 21:00 |
| nkinkade | So I imagine the worldwide plugin is the culprit. | 21:00 |
| mralex | probably, yeah | 21:00 |
| nkinkade | Do you know how all that works. | 21:00 |
| mralex | maybe a hook was removed | 21:00 |
| nkinkade | Is the theme involved? | 21:01 |
| mralex | i forget how it all fits together | 21:01 |
| mralex | i think there's a template that renders the jurisdiction views | 21:01 |
| nkinkade | mralex: Hmm. Not even flag is showing on each page. | 21:03 |
| nkinkade | It did before, right? | 21:03 |
| mralex | also showing "http://creativecommons.org/license-status/completed/weblog/2008/11/17/weblog/7334 | 21:03 |
| mralex | Mike Linksvayer, November 17th, 2008" | 21:03 |
| mralex | it'spossibly confused about what template to use | 21:03 |
| mralex | maybe the themeing system has changed slightly | 21:04 |
| nkinkade | mralex: Yeah, I was just inspecting the file category-21.php | 21:04 |
| nkinkade | The problem could be in there as well. | 21:04 |
| mralex | can we roll back and try to figure it out on staging? | 21:05 |
| nkinkade | mralex: Yeah. | 21:05 |
| nkinkade | mralex: Roll back complete. | 21:07 |
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| nkinkade | paroneayea: I'm going to move the vhost config for CC.org back to /etc/ | 21:49 |
| paroneayea | nkinkade: :) | 21:50 |
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