Monday, 2010-06-28

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foo_just wondering if someone could help me here03:01
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paulproteusnyergler: For the call, we'll ring you at the office at 8 your time?14:57
nyerglerpaulproteus, sure14:58
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nyerglerpaulproteus, see
paulproteus5.0.5 was released ca. 2d ago15:02
akila87hello paroneayea,15:08
paroneayeaheya akila8715:11
paroneayeahow's it going15:11
akila87I used nyergler suggestion about tabs.15:12
akila87i updated the svn too15:12
akila87wait i'll send you the screen shots15:13
paroneayeaakila87: sounds great.  How about doing a blog post on this update?15:15
akila87sure ill post it by tomorrow.15:16
akila87sorry I didn't wrote it for two weeks :(15:16
paroneayeait's ok... but now we have a very good blogpost to make and we shouldn't waste the opportunity :)15:19
paroneayeaalso, I'm the first in #cc to mention the Bilski court ruling :B :B :B15:21
paroneayeaLooks *very* nice akila87!15:22
akila87you can scroll the legal code15:23
akila87but this theme doesn't show the scroll bar15:23
akila87and some times the buttons in the top can be little ugly.15:24
akila87we cannot use actual tabs for that.Currently SDK doesn't support for tabs.15:25
akila87nyergler, what do you think?15:26
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nyerglerThe lack of scrollbar is weird15:28
nyerglernot sure if there's anything to be done about it15:28
paroneayeayou can still scroll with the middle mouse wheel I assume?15:29
nyerglerakila87, so when you say the buttons can be a little ugly, do you mean that certain themes make them look bad?15:29
akila87ya sometimes.15:30
nyerglerI think these screen shots look great and that we should publish an XPI and ask for feedback15:30
nyerglermy one piece of feedback is the dialog title15:30
nyerglerpeople will almost certainly point out that CC0/Public Domain are not "licenses"15:30
greg-ghey, those things aren't licenses, they're waivers!15:31
* greg-g smiles15:31
nyerglerI wonder if something like "Sharing & Reuse Permissions" or "Copyright <something>" would work better15:31
nyerglerthank you, greg-g; i can always count on you ;)15:31
greg-gjust doing my job15:32
akila87this is the worst case
nyerglerakila87, worst case in terms of buttons?15:32
nyergler(also, "Creative" is mis-spelled in that one ;) )15:32
akila87greg-g, you mean the title? I'll change that :)15:32
akila87nyergler, yes15:33
akila87nyergler fixing... :)15:33
paroneayeaworst case wise that doesn't look too horrible15:41
paroneayeanyergler: is it okay timing for me to try to bring sanity back up now?15:47
nyerglernkinkade, we want the amd64 version of debian, right?15:48
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paroneayeagiving this another minute then I'm setting it back to the old engine15:55
paroneayeaI don't know why this happens.  Only on live, sanity sometimes seems to take forever to come up, if it does at all.15:56
paroneayeaonce it does there are no problems.15:57
nkinkadenyergler: I'm not sure.  Was the machine you bought 64 bit?15:58
nkinkadeI don't recall that it was, but it surely could be.15:59
nyerglerparoneayea, interesting that we see lots of scraper.fcgi instances in the process list, no ccengines (like i'd expect)15:59
nyerglernkinkade, yes, it's a Core i315:59
paroneayeanyergler: well I just reverted things15:59
paroneayeaso that might be why15:59
nyerglerparoneayea, right... do we have any information about where it's hanging?16:00
nyerglerdoes LogLevel debug give any useful information?16:00
paroneayeaI haven't tried that.  My next plan is to try mounting at cc.engine-fcgi *without* pointing any of the urls there16:00
paroneayeawith the old zope engine up16:01
paroneayeajust to see if it's accessible through fcgi in general16:01
paroneayeaafter that I'll check the LogLevel if necessary16:01
paroneayeawell that's working16:02
paroneayeawhen I reload the server it doesn't work for about 10 seconds16:03
paroneayeamy *suspicion* is16:03
paulproteusI suggest 32bit operating systems with 64 bit kernels.16:03
paulproteus(on 64b hardware, which all modern hardware is)16:03
paroneayeaduring that period we get a request pileup that overwhelms things and makes the server hard to start up16:03
nyerglerpaulproteus, didn't we go through the epic struggle to get on 64b on our other boxes? or was that just to get a 64b kernel?16:04
paulproteusOh, right, that was for Varnish.16:04
paulproteusYeah, for Varnish you want a 64b userland.16:04
paulproteusYeah, clearly you should just do a 64b userland, since any performance gains you get from being smaller don't matter on this machine, and Life Is Easy on 64b16:05
paulproteus(unless you have proprietary 32b-only stuff you want to run)16:05
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nyerglerwe don't16:05
* paulproteus nods.16:05
nyerglerparoneayea, that sounds plausible to me16:05
nyerglerparoneayea, i suspect that it's a combination of requests + heavy start up (ie, loading large RDF files)16:06
nkinkadenyergler: Sounds like you and paulproteus came to a conclusion.  :-)16:06
nyerglerwe did :)16:06
paroneayea is now coming up really fast16:07
paroneayeaI'm not sure how to resolve this problem16:07
paroneayeaI mean, I could restart at midnight my time when there's probably a lower request level(?) but16:08
paroneayeathat's a scary scenario if we can only restart at midnight.16:08
paulproteusYou could use Varnish to do to the switchover.16:09
paulproteusI suppose.16:09
paroneayeapaulproteus: clarification?16:10
nyergleri suspect paulproteus isn't aware we're moving from independent server to fcgi16:11
nyergler(or were trying to)16:11
paulproteusStep 1, move from indy server to fcgi in Apache, keeping FCGI at ccengine-fcgi/choose/16:11
paulproteusStep 2, Yay, Apache has finished starting16:11
paulproteusStep 3, Have Varnish does URL rewriting of /license/ to /ccengine-fcgi/choose/16:11
paulproteusThat way Apache is already live16:11
paulproteusBut maybe that's not enough16:11
paroneayeawell that might work for the /choose/ kinds of things16:12
nyerglerparoneayea, i concur that "restart at midnight" is no way to live16:12
paroneayeanyergler: I wish I could set the topic to that line16:12
paulproteusOh, so I guess I'm saying keep running the indy server in steps 1-3, and once Varnish has been updated to do URL rewriting, then you can disable it16:12
paroneayeasadly nobody appears to have ops here16:12
paroneayeapaulproteus: what I meant is the way that we do "deed caching" now:16:13
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paroneayeastatic files written to disk, served through apache if they've been written, routed to the engine if not16:14
paroneayeathe engine caches the deeds on-render now16:14
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paroneayeaso hence why I said I think it would work for /choose & dynamic friends, but maybe not for varnish?16:15
paroneayeaunless we could port that logic to varnish16:15
paroneayeaI don't know if that is possible or not.16:15
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*** paroneayea changes topic to "Creative Commons FAQ :: chat logs -> :: No answer? Email the lists - :: This channel has nothing to do with credit cards. Sorry scammers. :: <nyergler> paroneayea, i concur that "restart at midnight" is no way to live"16:15
paroneayeathx nathany :)16:16
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paulproteusOh, I see.16:18
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paulproteusYou could use "  MaxProcessCount             5" or somesuch in mod_fcgid so that at least FCGID won't fall over16:19
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paulproteus(copied from e.g. )16:19
paulproteusThen things will be really slow at first, until Varnish caches them.16:19
nyerglerparoneayea, what's MaxProcessCount right now?16:20
paulproteus...I guess you could start having Varnish cache things right now, actually, and fill its cache by having Varnish cache the Apache cache16:20
paroneayeaMaxProcessCount 500 :)16:20
paulproteusAnd then when Varnish's cache is nice and full, do the switchover.16:20
paulproteusThose are my thoughts for now.16:21
nyerglerparoneayea, i haven't been following the exchange with paulproteus that closely16:22
nyerglerbut might i suggest that 500 is insane :)16:22
paroneayeaI don't understand it well enough to understand varnish caching much.  But I'll lower it from the "insane" 500 value :)16:23
nyergleri wonder if we'd have better luck with, say 25 -- that way we're only trying to spin up 25 instances16:23
paroneayeaI'll try that.16:23
paroneayeaoh as a side note16:23
nyerglerparoneayea, i'm not sure the issue has anything to do with varnish; i think paulproteus was just trying to mitigate the issue using varnish16:23
nyergleri think your assessment is correct, paroneayea: it's getting flooded with requests and trying to bring things up16:24
paroneayeaokay.  I set it at 2516:24
paroneayealet's see how well it comes back up16:24
paroneayea :D16:25
nyerglerhuh, that seems to have worked?16:25
paroneayeayup :)16:26
nyerglerparoneayea, glad to hear it :)16:26
paroneayealooks nice and fast too.16:26
paroneayeathx paulproteus, nyergler :)16:27
nyerglernkinkade, is "backup" an OK hostname for the new machine?16:28
nyergleralso, paulproteus, does the debian installer expect the fully qualified hostname  (just curious)?16:28
paulproteusI think it's best to use one, but not necessary.16:28
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paulproteusI mean, rather, you should just "rose" in the hostname box but make sure "" is in the top of /etc/resolv.conf later16:28
paulproteusThe field you enter there is what the prompt says you're on.16:29
nyergleroh, ok16:29
nyerglerpaulproteus, one more debian question if you don't mind (actually more of an opinion question)16:33
nyerglerLVM -- yes/no?16:34
paulproteusI... uh... yes.16:34
nkinkadenyergler: "backup" is fine with me.16:34
nkinkadeHow does LVM get along with a single RAID array?16:35
nkinkadepaulproteus: ^^16:35
paulproteusJust do LVM on top of the RAID block device.16:36
paulproteusThen it gets along "fine"16:36
nyerglernkinkade, i think it'd just run on top of RAID + the root device16:36
nyergler(since we're talking about doing the root filesystem on the 160G drive, right?)16:36
paulproteusexcept that (when last I checked) fsync() doesn't work all the way through LVM and Linux MD?16:36
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paulproteusBut that's hearsay (I don't have a source) and I don't actually care anyway.16:37
nkinkadenyergler: Yeah, as far as I knew the plan was to install Debian on the 160G drive.16:37
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nyerglerhi will17:33
akila87nyergler, paroneayea how's this
nyerglerakila87, i like it17:34
willwhere can I get the CC-BY-SA 3.0 in plain text format?17:38
paroneayeaakila87: looks good :)17:38
nyerglerpaulproteus, suggestions on what to do if grub-install fails, complaining it can't read /boot/grub/stage1 correctly?17:41
nyerglerwill, we don't have plain text readily available right now17:42
nyergleryou can get minimally-styled HTML at
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Krinkleat Wikimedia Commons somsone created a cc-template for Colombia ('co'). Everything seemed to go well untill we checked the links to creativecommons.org17:43
Krinkle404 error17:43
Krinklehelp ?17:43
paroneayeaKrinkle: that could be a regression.  Looking, 1sec17:44
nyerglerKrinkle, Columbia is @ 2.5, not 3.017:44
Krinkleany reason ?17:44
nyerglerKrinkle, see
paroneayeaoh, not a regression then :)17:44
nyerglerthey haven't ported to 3.0 yet17:44
nyerglerwe rely on teams of legal volunteers to handle the porting process17:44
KrinkleBut the 'human readable' version hasn't changed from 2.5 to 3.0 right ?17:45
nyerglerthe human readable version is the same; the legalcode differs17:45
nyerglerKrinkle, see for an overview of what changed from 2.5 to 3.017:46
Krinkleis there some central page (table ?) with what's ported and what not ?17:46
nyerglerKrinkle, as in what version different jurisdictions are at?17:46
Krinkleyup, which others are not 3.0 yet but were in 2.517:46
nyerglerKrinkle, unfortunately we don't have a table :/ lets you look at an individual jurisdiction and see the latest version17:47
Krinklecause that could mean we have more 404 erros withhout knowing at Wikimedia Commons in the licenses17:47
nyerglerKrinkle, we're working on getting a bunch of that information up in the wiki; probably later this summer17:48
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nyerglerKrinkle, we have the information in RDF if you're interested in that... it'd just take some code to check things17:50
Krinklenyergler: No, it's alright. Whenever a new translation pop's up users will notice and restore the templates.17:50
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nkinkadeparoneayea: Did you re-launch the new cc.engine?18:07
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paroneayeankinkade: yes18:07
paroneayeaI haven't shut down the old one yet18:07
paroneayeaI should do that now18:07
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willnyergler: Is it on a todo list?18:46
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paroneayeanyergler: ping me when you aren't at lunch or whatever19:22
nyerglerparoneayea, ping19:59
nyerglerwill, no20:00
nyerglerwill, the XHTML version is the canonical version; we might do txt at some point, not slated for engineering yet20:00
paroneayea    1          220:06
paroneayea          |20:06
paroneayea    o     |20:06
paroneayea |.'      |20:06
paroneayea   '      |20:06
paroneayea    '.    |        |20:06
paroneayea          |20:06
paroneayea        PONG20:06
paroneayeahave time for a phone call re: the RDF deployment stuff?20:06
nyerglerparoneayea, sure, a quick one; can i call you in a couple minutes after I finish writing this email?20:07
paroneayeanyergler: for sure20:07
nyerglerparoneayea, pm me the # to call?20:07
paroneayeaphone definitely screwed20:14
paroneayeathought it would be quicker to discuss via phone but I'll write it up20:14
nyerglerparoneayea, ok, i have a coffee mtg offsite @ 145, but i'll look for the email20:15
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nkinkademralex: I just upgraded WP.20:59
nkinkadeThings are working, seemingly, except for international pages.20:59
mralexnkinkade: on staging or production?20:59
nkinkademralex: Production.20:59
nkinkadeIt would appear that something is broken with the worldwide plugin, I would guess.20:59
nkinkadeThough I suppose it could be an API issue.20:59
mralexwhich international pages are you seeing problems?21:00
nkinkademralex: All that was implemented before I got to CC, so I'm not totally sure how it all fits togehter.21:00
mralexit appears fine for me21:00
nkinkademralex: The license lists aren't showing up.21:00
mralexoh, right, yeah21:00
nkinkadeSo I imagine the worldwide plugin is the culprit.21:00
mralexprobably, yeah21:00
nkinkadeDo you know how all that works.21:00
mralexmaybe a hook was removed21:00
nkinkadeIs the theme involved?21:01
mralexi forget how it all fits together21:01
mralexi think there's a template that renders the jurisdiction views21:01
nkinkademralex: Hmm.  Not even flag is showing on each page.21:03
nkinkadeIt did before, right?21:03
mralexalso showing "
mralexMike Linksvayer, November 17th, 2008"21:03
mralexit'spossibly confused about what template to use21:03
mralexmaybe the themeing system has changed slightly21:04
nkinkademralex: Yeah, I was just inspecting the file category-21.php21:04
nkinkadeThe problem could be in there as well.21:04
mralexcan we roll back and try to figure it out on staging?21:05
nkinkademralex: Yeah.21:05
nkinkademralex: Roll back complete.21:07
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nkinkadeparoneayea: I'm going to move the vhost config for back to /etc/21:49
paroneayeankinkade: :)21:50
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