Thursday, 2009-03-12

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* SignpostMarv has a question about what license to put stuff under :-s03:01
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greg-gSignpostMarv: ask away.03:13
SignpostMarvwould no derivitives prevent people from recording lyrics as a song ?03:19
greg-gI am not a lawyer, but, my reading and understanding would say people are prevented from recording the lyrics as a song under an ND license.  I _believe_ that use would be classified as an adaptation (in other words, a derivative).03:22
greg-gjust as syncing music to video is considered a derivative03:23
greg-gin fact, the more I think about it, the more I believe that would not be allowed under a ND license.03:24
greg-g(and reading the legalcode, which you can find here: )03:25
SignpostMarvhehe. legalese ftl :-P03:25
greg-gwell, that is what you are agreeing to when you use the license. just fyi :)03:25
SignpostMarvso Share Alike should be sufficient then ?03:26
greg-gwhat do you mean, sufficient, and by ShareAlike you mean BY-SA or BY-ND-SA?03:26
ianwellera ND license, as i read it, basically means you can share the work but you can't make anything out of it or change it.03:28
ianwellerso if you put instrumental tracks for narration under a ND license they'd be of no use i guess03:28
greg-gianweller: that is how I understand it as well, yes.03:29
greg-gBY-SA is a great license, and I recommend it for a lot of circumstances.03:33
* ianweller agrees03:33
ianwelleri use BY a lot more though03:33
greg-gianweller: go CC0! :)03:34
SignpostMarvnow, the other question;03:36
SignpostMarvI'm wanting to do a parody lyrics site03:36
SignpostMarvnot sure if I can actually relicense parodies :-s03:36
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johndoigiiimorning nathany16:43
nkinkadenathany: There seems to be a problem with the license chooser for French and French (CA).16:43
nathanyin what way?16:44
nkinkadeThat's ugly, but should work (or not quite, really).16:44
nkinkadeThe Source URL is not displayed in the resulting HTML.16:45
nathanycan you tell me how it's not working?16:45
nkinkadeA bad translation causing a problem?16:45
nathanythat's the first thing to look at16:46
nathanyone moment16:46
nkinkadeThe same thing happens for French (CA) ... but it seems to be working for English and Spanish, so the problem may likely be in a badly translated string.16:46
nathanynkinkade: btw, can you go to and sign up for an account, complete the profile and let me know what your "link id" is?16:46
nathanyi need a backup admin for SoC16:46
nathanynkinkade: yeah, it's a borked i18n string16:48
nathanyi assume someone complained?16:48
nkinkadenathany: I still have my SoC account from last year: nkinkade16:49
nathanynkinkade: does that credential still work? they went to a new web app16:49
nathanynkinkade: yeah, it's all the french translations... i'll get that committed and synced up16:50
nkinkadenathany: It seems to.16:50
nathanyoh, cool16:50
nkinkadenathany: Should I make a ticket for that, or can you ping me when it's fixed so that I can respond to that person?16:50
nathanyi can ping you16:51
* nathany wishes we had a more automated way to push these things out16:51
nkinkadeThanks.  Meanwhile, I'm going to rebuild the HK Deeds.16:51
* nkinkade wishes that Deeds generated on-the-fly were viable.16:51
nathanyof course, i don't know french, but i'm assuming the source link goes @ the end....16:52
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* paulproteus could help if desired16:55
nathanypaulproteus: i forgot you know french, right?16:56
nathanydoes this look sane?16:56
nathanyBasé(e) sur une oeuvre à ${source_link}.16:56
nkinkadenathany: I just decided to create another GApps mail group for Nagios messages ... one for SMS and one for email notifications.16:57
nathanyok cool16:57
nathanybtw, if anyone else is trying to regenerate the XSLT for license selection (nkinkade, paulproteus), the arabic translation is broken so i've been removing it manually16:59
nathanyas the jordan port continues we'll need to let them know that their translation needs fixed17:00
paulproteusACK, nathany17:01
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nkinkadenathany: Does the process that runs cc.engine on a5 looks like this these days: /usr/bin/python2.5 ./bin/cc_engi17:24
nkinkadene -S /var/www/ -C z17:24
nkinkadedaemon.conf bin/paster serve deploy.ini17:24
nkinkade(at least something like that)17:24
nkinkadenathany: ^^ ... and also I'm having a problem running buildout on my local checkout of cc.engine/branches/production17:52
nkinkadeIt can't install lxml.17:53
nathanynkinkade: sorry was in a meeting17:54
nathanynkinkade: with respect to the latter (buildout) do you have libxml2-dev and libxslt1-dev installed? (system packages)17:54
nathanylxml isn't a new dependency for cc.engine... is it giving a specific error?17:55
nkinkadenathany: No, they weren't but they are now, and I'm re-attempting buildout.17:57
nkinkadeNot sure how I could have builtout before ... maybe the dev packages were removed with some upgrade.17:58
nathanynkinkade: we may have changed to a different version of lxml... it's possible there was an egg available for the other version (or for a different Python version?)18:01
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nathanynkinkade: the french issue is fixed18:06
nkinkadenathany: Thanks.  That was fast.18:07
nathanyi've had a lot of practice lately :)18:07
nkinkadenathany: Are we safe to shutdown tomcat on a8?18:26
nathanyi think so18:26
nkinkadeI'll try it and see if something blows up. :-)18:26
nathanyi mean, let's not go crazy and rip it out but yeah, give it a try :)18:26
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nathanynkinkade: what does the old watchdog script look for for cc.engine?19:05
nathany(or where is the watchdog script so i can take a look)19:05
nkinkadenathany: ^^19:06
nkinkadeI commented out the part that would normally have restarted cc.engine19:06
nathanynkinkade: do you get an email when the watchdog kills / restarts the license engine19:28
nkinkadenathany: Yea.19:32
nkinkadeWell, root gets a mail, which means I get a mail.19:32
nathanyi'm curious -- how often did you get one before the cut over?19:33
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nathanynkinkade: ^^19:37
nkinkadenathany: Usually 2 per day, or so.19:38
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nkinkadeIf the watchdog script weren't there to restart cc.engine it would have daily caused problems on a5 due to memory usage.19:38
nkinkadeEven as we speak paster is using 1.5G of resident memory.19:39
nathanynkinkade: right, but not causing problems as far as i can tell (or no?)19:39
nathanyi mean, that's a lot, yes19:39
nkinkadeThat seems excessive to me.19:40
nkinkadeEven Varnish is only using around 150M.19:40
nkinkadepaster is also consistently using between 25% and 50% of the CPU, as reported by top.19:41
nkinkadeThat too seems excessive.19:41
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nathanyi concur that it's a lot19:41
nathanyi don't think you can reasonably compare varnish and the license engine since they're totally different domains19:41
nathanyand i'm not saying we don't need the watchdog19:42
nkinkadeIt'd be nice if we didn't need it as a matter of daily maintenance.19:42
nkinkadeIn a perfect world.19:42
nkinkadeBut it was working well enough before to just restart cc.engine a couple times a day when it's memory usage got too high.19:42
nkinkadeBut what is cc.engine doing that would cause it use quite a lot more resources than anything else on the system?19:43
nkinkadeOr is it just the most used thing on a5 and unavoidable?19:43
nkinkadeThe Deeds are static.19:44
nkinkadeSo Apache gets those, and Varnish too.19:44
nkinkadeWhat is cc.engine handling that it's resource usage is so high compared to everything else?19:44
nathanyit's doing the license selection stuff, publicdomain, cc 0 (and deeds for cc0)19:45
nathanyi suspect we'll get some win when we dump the xslt stuff19:45
nathanyanyway, i'll get something in place wrt the watchdog today19:46
nathanyoff to lunch now19:46
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nkinkadenathany: It's probably worth devoting some time to doing an investigation of what cc.engine is using all those CPU cycles for and why it uses so much memory.  a5 seems to be humming along okay, but I worry that this isn't a good scenario for load spikes.  That is, it may be humming along now, but it may bog down badly if load increases for any reason.  paulproteus seems to enjoy tackling problems like this.  I'm not assigning him i19:53
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SterenI was wondering if you guys out there were aware of the FAC (Featured Artists Coalition, ) that is growing up these days. Maybe CC should try to participate in the talks, what do you think ?20:14
SterenI have to go, don't hesitate to email me if you want to talk about this, bye20:24
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robmyersFAC is in the UK. some of the people in it know ORG. it's more for musicians though.20:24
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paulproteusnkinkade, "I'm not assigning him i" (trunc)21:03
paulproteusTry re: memory usage21:03
paulproteusFeel free to assign me a ticket to look at cc.engine deployment/mem usage.21:03
nkinkadenathany: Do you have an opinion on this ^^?21:05
nkinkadeI'd love to make a ticket and have paulproteus give it a glance when he has a moment.21:06
nathanynkinkade: i think paulproteus has plenty on his plate21:06
nkinkadeYou're decision.21:06
nathanyfeel free to create a ticket21:06
nathanyi'm looking at a couple things now21:06
nathanypaulproteus: it appears just tells you how much it's using, not where it's using it, correct?21:07
nkinkadeBovinity: Are you familiar with the Javascript that is supposed to go in the footer of each contribution page in CiviCRM?21:07
nkinkadeAs in the past, it's causing problem with editing contribution pages because CiviCRM doesn't like to see <script> tags in the content.21:08
Bovinitynkinkade: i'm familiar with civicrm giving me errors when i would submit a page with JS in the footer, since it thought i was adding injection attacks21:08
paulproteusFWIW, I'd say Chinese FastCGI is likely to be a good answer, still, for cc.engine.21:08
nkinkadeI can override it, but I'm starting to feel that the JS in those pages isn't needed anyway.21:08
Bovinitynkinkade: i thought i pulled that code and made it generic enough toput into a js file21:08
nkinkadeVestigial, that is.21:08
paulproteusI could spend a lot longer and come to a more detailed conclusion, but if you just cycle the processes you'll go far.21:09
nathanyi don't think you've ever proposed that for cc.engine and that presumes we can run it with a fcgi front end21:09
nkinkadeIt appears to be code to auto-select some option in a list, but I think we've got that somewhere else now.21:09
Bovinitynkinkade: yes, we do, it shouldn't be in the footer entries any more21:09
paulproteus"still" means it's like a reflex now.21:09
paulproteusAnd it does presume that, yeah; as I said I've spent ca. 0s looking at this.21:09
nkinkadeBovinity: I'll pastebin the JS just so you can take a quick look.21:09
* nathany rolls his eyes21:09
* paulproteus goes back to lurking21:09
Bovinitynkinkade: yeah, i'm 95% sure that's now in an included JS file, just rewritten slightly to work properly21:11
nkinkadenathany: Regarding the watchdog script, I'll be happy to get it back in working order.21:11
nkinkadeI just wanted to make sure I knew which process(es) might need cycling these days, and if there might be new, bad side effects of doing so.21:11
nathanynkinkade: yes, please restore it; i'm looking at weeding some extra libraries from the app that may slim it down a little bit21:12
nkinkadeBovinity: I'm going to remove it from one page, test it, and if nothing seems wrong I'll remove it from all of them.  FYI.21:12
Bovinitysure thing!21:12
nkinkadenathany: I'll set it to cycle cc.engine when it's memory usage exceeds 1G.  So the master paster process is the one to go for?  It appears to be the one using most of  the memory and CPU.21:13
nathanynkinkade: yes, i think one side effect of the switch over is that things that were split into a couple processes before are in the same process space now21:13
nathanythere actually is a zdaemon process watching paster so you may be able to just kill paster and have zdaemon do the restart21:14
nkinkadeCool.  Thanks for taking a look at that.21:14
nathanynkinkade: ^^21:14
nathanymaybe test on staging to see if it does what you expect?21:14
nkinkadenathany: Would you prefer to test that right now, or shall I?21:14
nathany(if you plan on letting zdaemon pick up the slack)21:14
nkinkadeBetter plan.21:14
nkinkadeWe don't have a staging server for nothing.21:14
nkinkadeBovinity: Looks like that JS was still being used.21:19
Bovinitynkinkade: odd...21:19
nkinkadeBut I'd like to migrate it somewhere else.21:19
nkinkadeSee that page, for example.  Now you get the "Premium" fieldset box, with nothing checked.21:19
Bovinitynkinkade: oh, maybe i was just thinking of the Join/Donate transacts21:19
nkinkadeDo you have an preference for where the code should be relocated to?21:19
nkinkadesupport.js, or whatever it's called?21:20
nathanyjohndoigiii: just saw your bug message, looks like you're on the right track21:25
nathanyare you working in a "feature" branch?21:26
nathanybtw, paulproteus, nkinkade, Bovinity, johndoigiii, have you see
nathany(also, paulproteus, i think you'll appreciate
Bovinitynathany: neat21:27
Bovinitywhygitisbetterthanx is great21:27
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johndoigiiinathany yes I was on a "security_changes" branch but switched to master while I was working on the other issues21:28
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paulproteusI've seen both on the git mailing list and greatly enjoyed them. (-: For no good reason I don't use grb.21:28
johndoigiiiI can revert master21:29
nkinkadeNice. I'm getting fairly comfortable with using git for basic things, but I'm still vague on many things.21:29
paulproteusI kind of wish that they had made it a "git command", like $ git remote-branch create [...]21:29
nathanypaulproteus: grb?21:29
paulproteus(or git r-b for short, even)21:29
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paulproteusEr, grb == , linked-to from gitready.com21:29
hdworakhave you applied for GSoC 2009? :)21:29
paulproteusBut now I see... wow, this site is awesome.21:29
paulproteusI thought it was just a link to grb!21:30
nathanyhdworak: we are going to21:30
johndoigiiithis site is really cool21:30
nathanyjohndoigiii: i know that you pushed changes on master for the early issues you worked on and that's fine21:31
nathanyi was specifically referring to the https/open id stuff21:31
johndoigiiiyeah, I was working on a branch but prematurely merged21:31
johndoigiiijust installed a git plugin for Textmate21:32
paulproteusThis is like our phrasebook but actually maintained.21:32
nathanyi'd appreciate it if you can back that out (the merge of the security work)21:32
nathanyso i can more easily merge your other stuff21:32
johndoigiiiyup I will back it out21:32
nathanythanks :)21:32
nathanypaulproteus: yeah, i wonder if we should just kill the phrasebook :)21:33
paulproteus+2, Insightful21:33
paulproteusOkay, back to lurking for real.21:33
johndoigiiihow far back? nathany21:33
johndoigiiijust out of the https stufF?21:34
nathanyjohndoigiii: yes21:34
nathanylooks like two commits?21:34
nathany(at least that have been pushed to code)21:34
johndoigiiialrighty, just wanted to make sure the change email interface was fine21:35
nathanyyeah, absolutely21:35
johndoigiiiokay cool21:35
nkinkadenathany: Attempting to merge the newly created HK Deeds into branches/production of license.rdf is causing massive amounts of conflicts.21:38
nkinkadeWould that be a result of the changes??21:38
nathanywell conflicts are always the result of changes [in the files] ;) but i'm going to assume you're referring to the license engine changes?21:39
nathanynkinkade: ^^21:40
nkinkadenathany: Yeah. :-)21:40
nathanynkinkade: can you pastebin an example of a conflict? i don't know off the top of my head...21:41
nkinkadeIt appears that every single newly generated Deed conflicts.21:41
nkinkadeThe lang=en part, and that's just one of a many in a given file.21:42
nkinkadeSome are quite large.21:42
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nathanynkinkade: so that *is* the result of a change, but it's a pretty old one21:43
nathanyi'm think you should be able to just generate the deeds from cc.engine production with an output dir of license.rdf/b/production21:44
nkinkadenathany: What can be done?21:44
nkinkadeI'll try that now.21:44
nathanynkinkade: this is the sad fact -- merge algorithms are limited (although it *does* seem a little weird that it can't figure this out...)21:44
nkinkadeThere was another that I couldn't understand at all ... some new text inserted below some old unchanged text.21:46
nathanynkinkade: one second... let me look at something quick21:47
nkinkadenathany:  I can send you an entire conflicting file, if you like.21:48
nathanynkinkade: i just realized that a changeset (or more than one) leaked into production21:48
nathanyso production on cc.engine contains changes that we don't want to roll out yet (sigh)21:48
hdworak1just in case: GSoC's deadline for mentoring orgs is tomorrow noon21:48
nathanyhdworak1: yup21:49
hdworak1good luck21:49
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nathanynkinkade: short answer is you can't regenerate HK deeds today21:53
nkinkadenathany: I'll make a ticket for myself.21:54
nkinkadenathany: You were correct.  I just twice killed the master paster process on a7 and it was immediately respawned by zdaemon.21:55
nathanynkinkade: cool :)21:55
nathanyi'm glad there's a little good news21:55
nkinkadeI think I'll just let zdaemon handle the restarting, that way we don't have to worry about init scripts, and there is probably less overhead to let zdaemon do it.21:55
nkinkadeIs Allison in the office?21:55
nathanyshe's not at her desk21:56
nathanyshe was in earlier21:56
nkinkadeAh.  nathany: Just one more thing.  For a while now I've noticed that mkdeeds never gives me back the terminal when it completes ... doesn't even accept TERM signals .. I have to background it and then kill %1 it.21:57
nkinkadeBut this has been happening for quite some time, long before these changes.21:57
nkinkadeNot an action item, but just an FYI.21:57
nathanynkinkade: yeah, i remember you reporting that21:58
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nathanynkinkade: the GSoC webapp says you don't exist as a use22:23
nathanydid you complete your profile and set a link id?22:23
nkinkadenathany: Let me double check.22:24
nkinkadenathany: Try now.22:25
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nkinkadeI thought that was somehow related to the last year's GSoC stuff, for which I had setup everything to be a mentor, etc.22:26
nathanynkinkade: yup, thanks22:26
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Bovinitynkinkade: its been a while since you last looked, but any ideas off the top of your head why the RSS Importer part of the cc WP plugin won't add an initial feed?23:52
Bovinityi'm trying to set it up on my local machine for testing23:52
Bovinitysome config gotcha or anything23:52
Bovinitynkinkade: nevermind, the plugin isn't setting up wordpress properly, for me at least.23:57
Bovinitys/wordpress/mysql/ :/23:57

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