| mlinksva | paulproteus, just noticed a yacy update in freshmeat ... i've seen a few other distributed crawler projects over the years, but it looks like this is distributed search too ... on my pile of stuff to check out. | 00:24 |
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| cchelpbot | New news from http://creativecommons.org/weblog/rss: You're on Music Dutch Video <http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/6030> || Ask Lessig a Question <http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/6029> | 00:48 |
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| paulproteus | rejon, How is that different from Planet? | 03:55 |
| paulproteus | Also, did you hear about my "rssgrep" idea? | 03:55 |
| paulproteus | It sounds like applying XPath to RSS would be the easiest way to do that, but I don't actually know XPath. | 03:55 |
| rejon | google for content | 04:08 |
| paulproteus | rejon, I have no idea what you mean. | 04:11 |
| rejon | Well, since ccHost spits out atom feeds (amongst others), we could create a good search engine that we could feed feeds to | 04:13 |
| rejon | I guess we wouldn't need to | 04:13 |
| rejon | could just use wordpress and an agreggator plugin | 04:14 |
| * paulproteus nods | 04:14 | |
| rejon | but then the search is shitty still | 04:14 |
| paulproteus | I hear FeedWordPress is a good such plugin. | 04:14 |
| rejon | not granular and focused on media types, licensing, etc | 04:14 |
| paulproteus | Right, that's true. | 04:14 |
| paulproteus | There needs to be more search that understands data, not just treats everything as plain text. | 04:14 |
| rejon | yep | 04:14 |
| paulproteus | The Google Revolution is that treating everything as plain text gets you really far really fast. | 04:15 |
| rejon | well, thinking of a way to aggregate content since cc is not about aggregating content nor having a db of content | 04:15 |
| paulproteus | So I've heard. (-: | 04:15 |
| rejon | how to have an indy site that could be something like opencontentpool.org or something | 04:15 |
| rejon | which ppl. could feed their media feed to to find media | 04:16 |
| rejon | hmmm | 04:16 |
| paulproteus | Maybe it would be better as a desktop app that did smart search against all known ccHost installs? | 04:16 |
| rejon | there are big holes in my thought | 04:16 |
| paulproteus | Oh? | 04:16 |
| rejon | however, trying to think of a distributed way to collect content | 04:17 |
| rejon | ha | 04:17 |
| rejon | primarily from feeds | 04:17 |
| rejon | hmmm | 04:17 |
| paulproteus | I've been imagining a desktop application RPC system that goes across language boundaries lately. | 04:17 |
| paulproteus | Each program tells a central authority on the desktop "if you want (this property) of (this type of object), tell me". (this property) is defined as the middle thing of an RDF triple, and (this type of object) is the first part of an RDF triple. | 04:18 |
| paulproteus | And the central authority caches the responses so performance isn't crazy bad. | 04:18 |
| rejon | hmmm | 04:18 |
| rejon | hmmm... | 04:18 |
| paulproteus | Then you could stop writing interoperability software for everything. | 04:18 |
| rejon | we should start pooling ideas for this on the cc wiki | 04:18 |
| rejon | interesting | 04:18 |
| rejon | maybe some of these things exist already | 04:19 |
| paulproteus | Right, a good point. | 04:19 |
| rejon | or at least can extend | 04:19 |
| rejon | probably best strategy | 04:19 |
| paulproteus | Probably definitely best strategy. | 04:19 |
| rejon | y | 04:19 |
| paulproteus | That reminds me, would it be okay to support OpenID logins on the CC Wiki? | 04:19 |
| paulproteus | I'm soon going to play with OpenID in MediaWiki, and the (Free) world needs to start pushing OpenID hard imho. | 04:19 |
| rejon | why don't you do it first on ccHost | 04:20 |
| rejon | sure | 04:20 |
| paulproteus | Because there's already an OpenID plugin for MW. (-: | 04:20 |
| rejon | aha | 04:20 |
| rejon | that would be great | 04:20 |
| rejon | lets do it | 04:20 |
| rejon | pass it by mike, but i'm sure he's into it | 04:20 |
| paulproteus | mlinksva, read this in the scrollback and tell me what you think. (-: | 04:20 |
| paulproteus | There was this "CC Licensing desktop search" thing I saw on the wiki. | 04:21 |
| paulproteus | Was that just a mockup? | 04:21 |
| paulproteus | It's a good example of why a richly-semantic desktop would be great. | 04:22 |
| paulproteus | So is the problem where XChat and gaim can both tell Evolution if someone is online. | 04:22 |
| rejon | yeah, i created | 04:22 |
| rejon | yep | 04:22 |
| rejon | I find creating mockups really gets dev. interested | 04:23 |
| rejon | learned this well with inkscape | 04:23 |
| paulproteus | Just like screenshots gets users interested. | 04:23 |
| paulproteus | Ah, nice. (-: | 04:23 |
| rejon | y | 04:24 |
| rejon | works really well, plus keeps myself from starting a million projects | 04:24 |
| paulproteus | Yeah, I need your skill of creating good ideas others latch onto. | 04:24 |
| paulproteus | That really rules. | 04:24 |
| rejon | yeah, i learned from kees and bryce (another inkscape dev) | 04:27 |
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| rejon | paulproteus: who owns freeculture.org | 05:43 |
| rejon | paulproteus: i have major idea and news | 05:43 |
| paulproteus | rejon, Uh, the domain, or the org? | 05:43 |
| rejon | ping! | 05:43 |
| paulproteus | rejon, #freeculture might be more appropriate? | 05:44 |
| rejon | the domain | 05:44 |
| rejon | nelson@fc.o | 05:44 |
| paulproteus | He's skyfaller on #freeculture. | 05:44 |
| rejon | aha | 05:44 |
| rejon | cool | 05:44 |
| paulproteus | I'm the web team, though. )-; | 05:44 |
| rejon | ok, where do you have cchost installed on there? | 05:44 |
| paulproteus | freeculture.org/host/ , but it's mostly broken iirc. | 05:45 |
| rejon | ok | 05:45 |
| paulproteus | Sometimes I wish my todo list would fit on a page. | 05:45 |
| * paulproteus is late-night hacking on a Drupal upgrade for laroia.net | 05:45 | |
| rejon | cool | 05:45 |
| rejon | is there a wiki on fc.o | 05:45 |
| paulproteus | wiki.freeculture.org | 05:45 |
| rejon | ok, i need to get more into fc.o | 05:46 |
| rejon | basically, myself and some inkscape devs. just thought up a really great project | 05:46 |
| rejon | you've seen revolution os, right? | 05:46 |
| paulproteus | Ages ago. . . . | 05:46 |
| rejon | ok, so bryce and i were trying to think up a way to make a new film like that, but more informative...to explain modern open source | 05:48 |
| rejon | mainly to get more ppl. into it | 05:48 |
| rejon | but then realized we shoudl run it like an open source project | 05:48 |
| rejon | but then realized | 05:48 |
| rejon | that we should just use ccHost | 05:48 |
| paulproteus | Whoa, the upgrade didn't entirely break. | 05:48 |
| paulproteus | In fact, it looks normal. | 05:48 |
| rejon | and during the next year at diff. events get interviews, etc, from other ppl | 05:48 |
| paulproteus | That's a shock. | 05:48 |
| rejon | cool | 05:48 |
| paulproteus | Oh, right on. | 05:49 |
| paulproteus | re: ccHost | 05:49 |
| paulproteus | Film clips on ccHost would be neat. | 05:49 |
| rejon | yep | 05:49 |
| WillySilly | Good idea | 05:49 |
| paulproteus | And it would be a good tool for showing the editing process, too. | 05:49 |
| rejon | we were initially thinking about making it about opensource, but then realized free culture is the term for the larger movment | 05:49 |
| paulproteus | (-: | 05:49 |
| paulproteus | I think getting filmers to actually produce it would be hard, though. | 05:50 |
| rejon | that encompasses open content, source, free software and free content | 05:50 |
| paulproteus | Getting film kids excited about software freedom is tough. | 05:50 |
| rejon | sooooo.... | 05:50 |
| rejon | getting to that | 05:50 |
| * paulproteus awaits further instruction (-: | 05:50 | |
| rejon | then, there is the idea of spread.____.org | 05:50 |
| WillySilly | I know of one flim student who'd probably do it | 05:51 |
| rejon | sooo...what would you think about having spread. fc.o | 05:51 |
| rejon | cchost that mofo | 05:51 |
| rejon | and start collecting clips | 05:51 |
| rejon | then..... | 05:51 |
| paulproteus | (Random aside: I hate how my (A) priority tasks depend on (B) and (C) priority ones.) | 05:51 |
| rejon | get davis guggenheim (cc board and filmmaker behind inconvenient truth), among others into making a master powerful edit in a year | 05:51 |
| paulproteus | Well, if they would really do it, that would rock my socks. | 05:52 |
| rejon | but, the general idea is to have this constant flow of video (and possibly other media) aroun these ideas, but mainlyl interviews and whatnot | 05:52 |
| rejon | by developers and others | 05:52 |
| rejon | around these ideas | 05:52 |
| paulproteus | That is in fact an interesting idea. | 05:52 |
| paulproteus | Because the film paradigm is really powerful. | 05:53 |
| paulproteus | Reminds me, I wonder how the "open source road trip" went. | 05:53 |
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| rejon | i dunno...good question | 05:58 |
| paulproteus | (This is why it would have been nice if the Free Culture Intern had been active with FC.o. . . .) | 06:08 |
| rejon | hahaah | 06:09 |
| rejon | agree majorly | 06:09 |
| paulproteus | Margot was great, anyway, don't get me wrong. | 06:09 |
| rejon | i know | 06:09 |
| rejon | i know what you are saying | 06:09 |
| rejon | ok, I will ramp up my participation with FC.o | 06:09 |
| paulproteus | Well, no matter, that's what the rest of the year is for. (-: | 06:09 |
| paulproteus | rejon, Awesome, thanks. | 06:09 |
| paulproteus | I get the feeling that your participation is a lot like magic pixie dust. | 06:09 |
| rejon | yeah, just so hard to stay involved in eerything | 06:10 |
| rejon | thx for the compliment | 06:10 |
| paulproteus | Got only so much pixie dust, eh? | 06:10 |
| rejon | i turn ppl. to faeries | 06:10 |
| paulproteus | lol, that's *exactly* what we need! | 06:10 |
| rejon | yeah, thats why the new cc shirts are going to be only in rainbow | 06:10 |
| rejon | trying to take a stronger presence in san francisco | 06:11 |
| rejon | yeah, i think my time would be better used in FC.o rather than icommons | 06:11 |
| rejon | because you guys are doing it from the bottom up | 06:11 |
| paulproteus | I thought iCommons was interested in doing it bottom-up, too. | 06:11 |
| rejon | yeah, ok, interested in both | 06:12 |
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| manmadha | i want to do graphics programs using "c" cc can compile the programs?? | 11:11 |
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| manmadha | any body there? | 11:33 |
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| cchelpbot | New news from http://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/index.php?title=special:recentchanges&feed=rss: Film <http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Film> | 16:18 |
| cchelpbot | New news from http://creativecommons.org/weblog/rss: Blip.tv ranked #1 video sharing site by Light Reading <http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/6031> | 17:00 |
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| cchelpbot | New news from http://creativecommons.org/weblog/rss: Lucky 7s: Awesome CC-licensed jazz music <http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/6033> | 18:10 |
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| cchelpbot | New news from http://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/index.php?title=special:recentchanges&feed=rss: Popular Science Concert <http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Popular_Science_Concert> | 19:50 |
| * paulproteus listens to "Code Monkehy" | 19:54 | |
| * paulproteus makes a typho | 19:54 | |
| BjornW | Hi all! I had a discussion with a friend about the differences between crypto and drm, but somehow I can't really find a good argument to show the difference between the two. Anyone care to share their thoughts about this? | 20:17 |
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| rolandalton | Another question: We are working on a timestamp service for licensed works, mainly for non-U.S. creators (who cannot use the U.S. Copyright Office’s registration service). We'd like to use the validation-URL in the rdf. Is this still a valid concept? Looks to me a bit unsecure. | 20:33 |
| mlinksva | BjornW, drm (typically) is a use of crypto, but the more typical use of crypto is to protect a message from third party attackers, while the typical use of drm is to "protect" the content from its user | 20:36 |
| mlinksva | this comes up all the time, but i'm not finding any great references.... | 20:37 |
| mlinksva | http://www.techliberation.com/archives/037844.php has a couple useful paragraphs | 20:37 |
| BjornW | mlinksva: yeah, I know. I spoke this guy from Philips that claimed that drm will be necessary for people so they are able to share their digital 'life' with friends and keep it protected from others. Would this by this definition still be called drm or not... | 20:39 |
| mlinksva | rolandalton, i'm not exactly sure what you're referring to. do you have a url? | 20:39 |
| BjornW | mlinksva: thanks for the link. Checking it now | 20:39 |
| BjornW | rolandalton: are you working on registratedcommons ? | 20:40 |
| rolandalton | yes, RegisteredCommons shall provide a timestamp for those who wish | 20:41 |
| rolandalton | URL - that's exactly my problem - I've read it somewhere on the CC development pages but can't fond the exact specs anymore. | 20:41 |
| rolandalton | I remember, that you can embed a URL in the rdf, pointing back to a reference page | 20:42 |
| BjornW | rolandalton: I tried to be at the talk from Marcus @iSummit, but somehow missed it. I hope to join you guys in Berlin during Wizard of OS | 20:43 |
| rolandalton | We had a PLONE developer sprint here in Austria with guys from Limewire last winter and we were trying to find out more about this backlink. | 20:43 |
| mlinksva | BjornW, i suspect it is DRM but it depends on exactlty what is meant by "protected from others" | 20:44 |
| rolandalton | We were not convinced, that this is a secure reference concept. | 20:44 |
| rolandalton | Just wanted to know, if there has been a further discussion on that issue somewhere. | 20:45 |
| rolandalton | BjornW: Great to meet you in Berlin. We'll have the launch party there ;-) | 20:46 |
| mlinksva | rolandalton, you're probably thinking of http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Nonweb_Tagging | 20:46 |
| rolandalton | ah, yes, it's dc:identifier | 20:49 |
| rolandalton | well documented (as all tech pages on CC) - just couldn't remember the keyword ... | 20:49 |
| rolandalton | The page also says: "Third parties can also build authentication services that provide additional assurance that the data is valid." That's exactly what we intend to offer. | 20:50 |
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| rolandalton | We generate a hash code around the work and store that together with the timestamp. We also need to ensure, that the dc:identifier doesn' gte altered. | 20:53 |
| rolandalton | Will discuss it with the team. Thanks for the hint :-) | 20:53 |
| BjornW | mlinksva: 'other' would be all those not getting the rights from the content creator/owner. They would not get access or limited access. | 20:56 |
| BjornW | rolandalton: I haven't had the time to really go into it, but I would like to investigate the possibility to use your system in combination with Simuze (www.simuze.nl) and give people the ability to register their work. However before doing so we need to research the dutch situation a bit more thorough. Are you open for collaborations? | 20:58 |
| BjornW | mlinksva: I was recently asked to participate in a panel about drm somewhere in october and therefor I am researching this topic again. This time I plan to write a Dutch essay about drm as there isn't that much written about it in Dutch as far as I know. So if you have more reference material feel free to let me know ;) | 21:01 |
| rolandalton | simuze-coop: RegisteredCommons V1 will only have singular item registration by web. We don't have the resources until mid September to build APIs, which we probably would need to connect to your service and do bulk-registrations. | 21:03 |
| rolandalton | ... but certainly this is our goals to co-operate with other content hosts. | 21:03 |
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| rolandalton | ... so we'll talk in Berlin about it. There we'll also discuss the business model in the Friday 15th morning workshop. | 21:06 |
| BjornW | rolandalton: interesting...I'll probably can only be there late in the evening at the 14th, but you guys are up for the 15th? | 21:06 |
| rolandalton | We'll arrive 14th Sept afternoon and will be at WOS4 until Sunday. We'll have a little booth with the tOSSad.org project, so it should be easy to find us. | 21:08 |
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| BjornW | Ok. I'm already part of the mailinglist you set up so keep me updated and hopefully we'll meet in Berlin ;) | 21:17 |
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| mlinksva | BjornW, i don't generally bookmark links about drm, so i don't have a list of resources offhand. http://benlog.com/articles/2006/08/06/drm-failure-by-presumption-of-guilt/ from a technical advisor to CC is a great story. it woud be great if you could throw in a bit about CC and digital righs expression contrasted with digital rights metadata. i may have a couple slides of potential use that i could sned you. | 22:39 |
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