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| cchelpbot | New news from http://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/index.php?title=special:recentchanges&feed=rss: CcPublisher Developer <http://wiki.creativecommons.org/CcPublisher_Developer> || MozCC Development <http://wiki.creativecommons.org/MozCC_Development> | 02:22 |
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| Roan | Hi all, when working with creative commons metadata and svg files I keep seeing xml namspace uri pointing to http://web.resource.org/cc/ (i.e xmlns:cc="http://web.resource.org/cc/"). Was this the original location for Creative Commons information? | 03:17 |
| Luke | Roan: I think that is just where the namespace definition resides | 03:19 |
| rejon | y | 03:20 |
| rejon | Hi Roan and Luke! | 03:21 |
| Roan | Thanks, Luke. Hi rejon. | 03:21 |
| Roan | I just noticed that some of the original licenses (ShareAlike etc.) info is pointed to this url space, but some newer license info is pointed to the creativecommons.org site. Didn't know if things were being switched to creativecommons.org or if they both will be valid | 03:25 |
| rejon | you should ask this question to the cc-metadata list | 03:26 |
| rejon | mlinksva can help clear this one up... | 03:26 |
| rejon | Roan, did you notice this in the Inkscape code? | 03:26 |
| Roan | Thanks rejon, yeah, I found this while using some svg graphics downloaded from ocal (created in inkscape) and from test ones I created with Inkscape. | 03:27 |
| Roan | I did find and join the cc-metadata list last night. I will post my question there. | 03:28 |
| rejon | yes | 03:29 |
| rejon | did you look inside of inkscape's code? | 03:29 |
| rejon | dialogs/rdf.cpp | 03:29 |
| rejon | it looks to me like the general licenses are pointed to on creativecommons.org | 03:31 |
| rejon | and the specific features of a license are pointed to on web.resource.org | 03:31 |
| Roan | yes, I first noticed it last night. The public domain "license" was pointing to web.resource.org/cc/PublicDomain, and I thought it should be pointing to creativecommons.org/licenses/publicdomain. Did you get my email from yesterday? I included a patch to dialogs/rdf.cpp to change the url to the creativecommons.org url | 03:31 |
| rejon | y (i just haven't had a chance to reply) | 03:32 |
| rejon | yes, I think this is right | 03:32 |
| rejon | looks like in Inkscape's code, Public Domain is the only one pointed to on web.resource.org | 03:33 |
| rejon | however, public domain is not a license fyi | 03:33 |
| rejon | http://creativecommons.org/licenses/PublicDomain | 03:33 |
| Roan | righto, that's why I've been using quotes around "license" when I refer to it. I guess dedication is the more correct term | 03:34 |
| rejon | y | 03:34 |
| rejon | hmmm | 03:36 |
| rejon | yeah, please ask these things on the list and just say we talked, curious about right approach | 03:36 |
| rejon | if we used the http://creativecommons.org/licenses/PublicDomain | 03:36 |
| rejon | it should be something like: http://creativecommons.org/dedication/PublicDomain | 03:37 |
| rejon | IMO | 03:37 |
| rejon | good to keep similar in usage | 03:37 |
| rejon | still not sure about why use web.resource.org, but tha is good to ask | 03:37 |
| Roan | Both http://creativecommons.org/licenses/PublicDomain and http://creativecommons.org/licenses/publicdomain return the same page. | 03:38 |
| rejon | cool...did you note my change in that URL I posted (with the dedication) | 03:38 |
| Roan | right, just got it--had to think about it after last comment :) | 03:40 |
| rejon | ;) | 03:41 |
| Roan | I see the point for keeping it semantically correct, however, if people are just taking a shot in the dark trying to find the page, they will probably try the licenses/ path since everything else (being a license) is in that path | 03:42 |
| rejon | y | 03:43 |
| rejon | still would be good to bring up in the email | 03:43 |
| rejon | how is the getid3 stuff going? | 03:43 |
| rejon | I got emails back from the devs. | 03:43 |
| rejon | i will forward to you | 03:43 |
| rejon | getid3 seems to have a much diff. approach to their community | 03:44 |
| rejon | I wish they would have cvs/svn up for the project | 03:44 |
| Luke | rejon: do you know how I can make a module for my code on the SF svn without checking out the whole cctools repo? | 03:44 |
| rejon | nathan or I will prolly have to create for you | 03:44 |
| rejon | you probably don't have enough privileges | 03:45 |
| rejon | I put experimental stuff into the experimental module | 03:45 |
| rejon | I'm going to push the getid3 guys to put their code into SVN | 03:46 |
| Luke | nathan gave me access to the SF repo and all that and said "Just create a new top-level module and the traditional trunk/, | 03:46 |
| Luke | branches/, tags/ sub-modules for your code." | 03:46 |
| rejon | what do you want in your project? | 03:47 |
| rejon | like what will it consist of? | 03:47 |
| Luke | what do you mean? | 03:47 |
| Luke | a Banshee patch? | 03:48 |
| rejon | is that what you want to check in, or current banshee with your patch applied? | 03:48 |
| Luke | i'm not sure... i was just going to do just the patched files | 03:49 |
| Luke | i've got the Banshee directory tree mirrored except with only the modified files in it so you can just copy and paste it to the banshee dir and apply the patch | 03:50 |
| Luke | actually no patch is needed if you copy and paste | 03:50 |
| rejon | ;) | 03:50 |
| rejon | but your code will come out as applied to banshee and not through the cctools tracker, right? | 03:50 |
| Luke | huh? | 03:51 |
| Roan | Thanks for making contact with getid3 devs. I did a little reworking of my initial code, it is more robust in checking that a file is a well formed svg file and it will read basic svg attributes, and works in the getid3 demos. So at on level it stands were it was, however the new XPath class I'm using will make dealing with the Creative Commons rdf easier. | 03:52 |
| rejon | cool | 03:52 |
| rejon | Roan: how about dealing with xml? | 03:52 |
| Luke | Roan: check out my ccBanshee patch. I wrote a clean XPath to parse the rdf info | 03:53 |
| Luke | its in C# though | 03:53 |
| Luke | i dont know what language your working with but XPath is the same syntax | 03:53 |
| rejon | Luke: you should extract your code so that others can use it | 03:53 |
| Roan | I'm using a XPath php class I found | 03:53 |
| rejon | probably similar approaches | 03:53 |
| Luke | rejon: ? | 03:54 |
| Roan | Starting to work on the creative commons rdf lead me to the namespace url questions. | 03:55 |
| Luke | right now i'm only using the web.resource.org namespace for the global ns. I've been using ccmixter as my main source of test cases | 03:56 |
| rejon | Luke: I mean the RD parsing/editing is valuable for other people | 03:56 |
| Luke | rejon: i want to eventually take over CClicenselib so i dont have to rewrite his regex stuff | 03:56 |
| Luke | but that will come when I finish ccBanshee | 03:56 |
| Luke | my methods are well abstracted so it will be a simple cut and paste | 03:57 |
| Roan | Luke: for now I'm trying to stick with php code. I'm adding code to the getID3 php code used by cchost.. | 03:58 |
| rejon | cool | 03:58 |
| rejon | Roan: are you absolutely sure you had to edit getid3.php ? (haven't had time to look at myself yet) | 03:59 |
| Luke | Roan: well what i'm saying is that the XPath is the same no matter what language you use | 03:59 |
| Luke | Roan: http://xpath.monoport.com/566 | 04:00 |
| Roan | Luke, ahh right--I can use your XPath logic and apply it to php. thanks for the heads up. that will make my life easier | 04:01 |
| Luke | Roan: there is a weird thing with the default namespace being "empty" so XPath could not find it | 04:01 |
| Roan | Luke: sorry I'm a little slow tonight--too much good food and wine at my friends house this eveing :) | 04:01 |
| Luke | it took me forever to solve. In the instance, you name it something arbitrary for XPath. My example uses "r:" | 04:01 |
| Luke | Roan: no problem. I just wanted to let you know. I spent a week debuging something that took me a day to write because of this weird XPath quark | 04:02 |
| Luke | with the namespaces | 04:02 |
| Luke | namespaces.AddNamespace ("r", "http://web.resource.org/cc/"); | 04:02 |
| Luke | even though the namespace is "", XPath needs to call it something so you have to arbitrarily name it | 04:03 |
| Luke | rejon: so did we ever resolve the svn thing? | 04:04 |
| Roan | I've just started with XPath and namespaces, I was basically just going to search the svg and rdf:RDF attributes for the web.resource.org/cc/ url to see what it aliased | 04:04 |
| rejon | I think you should just put it into the experimental module since its not for public consumption | 04:04 |
| rejon | then, if it becomes that way, or something, we can move over | 04:04 |
| Roan | rejon: yeah I'm positive I need to edit getid3.php. Both from an email I saw from James of getID3 to Bryce and from getting the examples to work on my machine | 04:05 |
| rejon | I figured so | 04:06 |
| rejon | not to second guess you or anything, just trying to keep the code changes down so they will accept it faster | 04:06 |
| rejon | ;) | 04:06 |
| mlinksva | the correct url to use for pd is http://creativecommons.org/licenses/publicdomain/ | 04:06 |
| mlinksva | i'll have to read the backthread to answer more fully but won't be able to do so for a couple hours | 04:07 |
| mlinksva | or maybe till tomorrow morning | 04:07 |
| Luke | rejon: ok thats fine. I have my own svn repo for it already. Is there any way I can keep the svn info? | 04:07 |
| mlinksva | i realize there is a discrepancy between the url used to describe PD unlike for the licenses. that is going to be fixed rsn | 04:07 |
| mlinksva | later | 04:07 |
| Roan | rejon: no prob., the changes are minimal, and occur for every new file type they support--so I'm guessing it's not a big deal to them | 04:08 |
| rejon | mlinksva: wrd | 04:08 |
| rejon | Luke: svn export | 04:08 |
| Luke | rejon: then how do i commit that? | 04:08 |
| Luke | rejon: basically i'm affraid of screwing something up in the repo | 04:09 |
| rejon | what module are you going to import it into? | 04:10 |
| Roan | mlinksva: thanks for the info. If it will be easier for you, I planned to post a message to cc-metadata with my questions about url info for the public domain license and the xml namespace url for creative commons licenses (ie xmlns:cc="...") | 04:10 |
| Luke | i dont know what is appropriate for me to import into | 04:10 |
| Luke | rejon: ^ | 04:10 |
| rejon | the module called: experimental | 04:11 |
| Luke | ok so how do I commit my current svn repo into that module? | 04:12 |
| rejon | actually, I haven't imported a pre-existing repo into a current one | 04:13 |
| rejon | did you try svn import? | 04:13 |
| Luke | you mean export? | 04:13 |
| Luke | i'm trying to read more about it now | 04:13 |
| rejon | yes | 04:13 |
| rejon | 04:13 | |
| rejon | ;) | 04:13 |
| Luke | the svn help files are pretty good at explaining this stuff too =) | 04:14 |
| rejon | http://developer.berlios.de/docman/display_doc.php?docid=394&group_id=2#import | 04:14 |
| rejon | similar principles | 04:14 |
| Luke | i just dont know how its going to work on the SF end with my permissions and all | 04:14 |
| Luke | rejon: i have a working 1.0 version of my code. Its not really experimental anymore | 04:16 |
| Luke | i'm just not sure how to package something like this | 04:16 |
| rejon | ok, what I'm saying is that your code is not going to be released on this system right? | 04:16 |
| Luke | Aaron Bockover was talking like he just wanted to patch it into Banshee HEAD right away | 04:16 |
| rejon | it is code that will be included in banshee | 04:17 |
| rejon | Luke: yes, do that | 04:17 |
| Luke | rejon: what system? cctools you mean? | 04:17 |
| rejon | that is a better approach | 04:17 |
| rejon | Luke: right | 04:17 |
| rejon | Luke: why would you want to put that code on cctools anyway? Its for banshee, right? | 04:17 |
| Luke | yea but its a CC patch for banshee | 04:17 |
| Luke | and its not in HEAD yet =) | 04:17 |
| Luke | aarons been away so i havent been able to talk to him more about this | 04:18 |
| Luke | see my delema? I'm ready for a release but because of the nature of my code... i'm not quite sure how to go about doing this | 04:18 |
| Luke | i want planning on using the SF repo but nathan suggested it | 04:19 |
| Luke | I realize this isnt really your problem so if you'd rather i just wait, thats fine | 04:20 |
| rejon | I think there is no point to put in cctools repo | 04:21 |
| rejon | better to give banshee dev the patch and then keep working against that | 04:21 |
| rejon | you don't want to confuse ppl. and be sorted to keep it in one place | 04:21 |
| Luke | yea that sounds like a good idea | 04:22 |
| Luke | thanks for your guidance =) | 04:22 |
| rejon | I think better to do this and make your wiki page really good to try and get more ppl. helping with your code and spend more time abstracting your code and moving forward | 04:22 |
| rejon | if anything, I think best to put that CCLicenseLIb into cctools and you should pick that up as your own project | 04:22 |
| rejon | i think you've asked enough times | 04:22 |
| Luke | Yea i'd like to do that as well | 04:23 |
| rejon | yeah, I think do that as well ;) | 04:23 |
| Luke | but I'd like to get a clean Banshee patch working before moving to maintianing a new project | 04:23 |
| rejon | drink a big caffeinated beverage and rip into it! | 04:23 |
| Luke | I'm talking like... pick up cclicenselib in a month | 04:23 |
| rejon | yes, agree...you are wise...my tendency is for doing too much ;) | 04:24 |
| Luke | http://www.openradix.org/archives/129 <-- this is what my plans are | 04:24 |
| Luke | as you can see... just having completed my Summer of Code goals, I feel like there is still a lot more to do with banshee | 04:24 |
| Luke | and then ending SoC with picking up maintainership of CCLicenceLib would be a nice clean transition | 04:25 |
| Luke | so as you can see... i've pretty much agreed to everything you've told me. =D | 04:25 |
| rejon | great | 04:25 |
| Luke | i'm excited about this | 04:26 |
| rejon | cool! | 04:26 |
| rejon | yeah, its all about getting code out and talking about it more | 04:26 |
| rejon | counter to the old models of hording it and showing less | 04:26 |
| rejon | ok, i gotta get cracking on finishing my presentation for tomorrow | 04:26 |
| Luke | i've had almost no responds from the banshee devs. I think the reason being is that aaron is really the one and only dev | 04:26 |
| Luke | rejon: ok cool | 04:26 |
| Luke | thanks agian | 04:26 |
| rejon | Luke: yes... | 04:28 |
| rejon | which is actually quite bad for a project and is why so many projects stay away from big projects like gnome where its hard to give people access | 04:28 |
| rejon | for openclipart.org, we have one person who helps just get people accounts...its all about getting more people keys and empower them to get their ideas in | 04:29 |
| Luke | totally | 04:29 |
| Luke | i think gnome is slowly becoming more open. its getting too big for the core devs and people are realizing it. | 04:29 |
| Luke | Aaron has been so enthusiastic about putting ccBanshee straight into HEAD but he's so busy that he doesnt have time to work with me on getting it ready. No one else in the banshee community really has any more authority than I do. | 04:30 |
| rejon | yeah, they should move it off to sf.net or another hosting provider so that more ppl. can help out | 04:31 |
| Luke | totally - but i'll let you work now =D | 04:31 |
| rejon | pce | 04:31 |
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| Luke | mlinksva: the sample and sample+ licenses... why are they not listed on cc.org/licenses? | 05:07 |
| mlinksva | Roan, thx, i'll respond on the list tomorrow | 05:09 |
| mlinksva | Luke, /licenses/ is just informational, not intended to point to every single license | 05:09 |
| Luke | oh really? | 05:10 |
| Luke | is there a site that points to them all layed out in a table like that? | 05:10 |
| mlinksva | not human readble, but http://creativecommons.org/licenses/index.rdf | 05:11 |
| Luke | actually this is better than human readable for me =) | 05:11 |
| Luke | thanks | 05:11 |
| Luke | oh wow I might be screwed | 05:12 |
| mlinksva | why? | 05:12 |
| Luke | there is no way I can deal with all those licenses in ccBanshee and keep it fast | 05:13 |
| Luke | right now I have a table of all the licenses on cc.org/licenses and their matching logos | 05:13 |
| mlinksva | that's probably not the right thing to do | 05:13 |
| Luke | do you think ccBanshee should deal with all these licenses or is there a subset which is mainly used for music? | 05:14 |
| mlinksva | i have to run now but let's chat about it tomorrow. | 05:14 |
| Luke | well actually going to the license site and parsing that too would cause a lot of overhead | 05:14 |
| Luke | alright | 05:14 |
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| cchelpbot | New news from http://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/index.php?title=special:recentchanges&feed=rss: Special:Log/upload <http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Special:Log/upload> || Special:Log/upload <http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Special:Log/upload> || User:Luke Hoersten <http://wiki.creativecommons.org/User:Luke_Hoersten> || Special:Log/upload <http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Special:Log/upload> | 05:41 |
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| cchelpbot | New news from http://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/index.php?title=special:recentchanges&feed=rss: CcBanshee <http://wiki.creativecommons.org/CcBanshee> | 06:03 |
| paulproteus | Whoa, since when do people *talk* on this channel? /me reads scrollback | 06:08 |
| Roan | only on sunday/early monday morning :) | 06:09 |
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| cchelpbot | New news from http://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/index.php?title=special:recentchanges&feed=rss: OSCON2006 <http://wiki.creativecommons.org/OSCON2006> || Extensible Desktop Applications with Zope 3 <http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Extensible_Desktop_Applications_with_Zope_3> | 11:26 |
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| cchelpbot | New news from http://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/index.php?title=special:recentchanges&feed=rss: Where to Release Software <http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Where_to_Release_Software> | 13:32 |
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| mlinksva | just reading back through last night's chat. Roan, the correct url for PD is http://creativecommons.org/licenses/publicdomain/ | 15:57 |
| mlinksva | luke, ideally an application like banshee doesn't know about any licenses | 15:58 |
| mlinksva | when encountering a url that claims to be a license, it looks up metadata for that url | 15:59 |
| mlinksva | the looked up metadata says whether commercial use is prohibited, etc | 15:59 |
| mlinksva | so what the code does need to know about are the license properties -- permissions/requirements/prohibitions | 16:00 |
| mlinksva | but no actual license urls | 16:00 |
| mlinksva | ideally when you encounter a license url you haven't seen before you cache its metadata | 16:00 |
| mlinksva | a very hacky but workable alternaitve would be to look for the path item following /licenses/ in the license url | 16:01 |
| mlinksva | and your code knows that "by" means attibution, "nc" noncommercial,etc., with some special casing for publicdomain and sampling | 16:02 |
| mlinksva | i mean capital-L Luke | 16:02 |
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| Luke | mlinksva: ah i think I can implement that without too many problems - thanks | 18:03 |
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| cchelpbot | New news from http://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/index.php?title=special:recentchanges&feed=rss: Fred Benenson's Free Culture in Second Life <http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Fred_Benenson%27s_Free_Culture_in_Second_Life> | 18:49 |
| mlinksva | Luke, i'd love to code review your implementation, please send me a pointer when appropriate | 18:54 |
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| cchelpbot | New news from http://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/index.php?title=special:recentchanges&feed=rss: SL CC Intern Lectures <http://wiki.creativecommons.org/SL_CC_Intern_Lectures> || SL CC Movie Workshop <http://wiki.creativecommons.org/SL_CC_Movie_Workshop> | 19:33 |
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