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| NameLess-js | hi i got question | 03:52 |
|---|---|---|
| NameLess-js | which license is best for source codes? | 03:52 |
| greg-g | NameLess-js: I would recommend either a GPL/AGPL or Apache/MIT depending on the style of license you want (copyleft or permissive) | 03:56 |
| NameLess-js | i have no clue about licenses :) | 03:57 |
| greg-g | NameLess-js: *none* of the CC licenses are for source code, however. They were not designed/written for the world of software | 03:57 |
| NameLess-js | ok | 03:57 |
| NameLess-js | so i should use spl | 03:57 |
| NameLess-js | and how do i state it? | 03:58 |
| NameLess-js | 'This work is licensed under the GPL License Agreement'? | 03:58 |
| greg-g | NameLess-js: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-howto.html | 03:59 |
| NameLess-js | thanks | 03:59 |
| NameLess-js | greg-g: the statement seems to be quite long, how can i just use i sentence? | 04:01 |
| greg-g | it tells you how you should do it | 04:02 |
| NameLess-js | i don't c | 04:03 |
| greg-g | NameLess-js: just follow the instructions in that guide. I'm sorry, I really need to go to bed now | 04:07 |
| NameLess-js | ok, sorry to disturb :) | 04:08 |
| greg-g | no problem. have a good <whatever time of day it is for you> :) | 04:08 |
| NameLess-js | :P | 04:08 |
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| paroneayea | o_O | 19:25 |
| JED3 | ping nyergler | 19:26 |
| nyergler | JED3: pong | 19:27 |
| * paroneayea puts himself in the ping queue after JED3 ;) | 19:27 | |
| JED3 | re: http://code.creativecommons.org/issues/issue740 you specify that morePermURL's must not contain more than 1 reference, does that adhere to whats spec.d in CC+? | 19:28 |
| nyergler | "spec.d in CC+" is a hilarious phrase ;) | 19:29 |
| JED3 | hehe yeah looking at it now | 19:30 |
| nyergler | it's not specified right now | 19:30 |
| nyergler | i don't know of anyone doing more than one at the moment (and don't know what we'd even do with it) | 19:30 |
| JED3 | i thought it was more explicit :) | 19:30 |
| JED3 | okay | 19:30 |
| nyergler | that'd be great if it were, but it's not at the moment. | 19:30 |
| nyergler | i suppose you can debate whether or not it makes sense to include that predicate in the list that triggers no-parse | 19:30 |
| nyergler | er, no-mark | 19:31 |
| nyergler | does that answer the question? maybe omit it from the list in 740 at the moment? | 19:31 |
| nyergler | i'm happy to annotate the ticket as such | 19:31 |
| JED3 | yes that answers the question, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't an oversight | 19:31 |
| nyergler | great | 19:32 |
| nyergler | paroneayea: your turn | 19:32 |
| nyergler | pong | 19:32 |
| paroneayea | nyergler: cool, so | 19:32 |
| paroneayea | looking at how to do the transifex client in cc.i18n | 19:32 |
| paroneayea | it's kind of annoying...... | 19:32 |
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| nyergler | figures | 19:32 |
| paroneayea | looking at the egg installed by buildout | 19:33 |
| nyergler | the tx egg? | 19:33 |
| paroneayea | it doesn't look like it has an entry point to the "tx" script | 19:33 |
| paroneayea | yeah | 19:33 |
| paroneayea | the transifex-client egg | 19:33 |
| paroneayea | instead... | 19:33 |
| paroneayea | transifex_client-0.3-py2.6.egg/EGG-INFO/scripts/tx | 19:33 |
| paroneayea | which is a script | 19:33 |
| nyergler | hrm | 19:33 |
| nyergler | so i wonder if they're using the old scripts syntax in setup.py | 19:34 |
| nyergler | (pre-setuptools) | 19:34 |
| paroneayea | oh | 19:34 |
| nyergler | uh, does scripts/tx just call into the tx package? | 19:34 |
| paroneayea | http://paste.pocoo.org/show/301487/ | 19:34 |
| paroneayea | also: | 19:35 |
| paroneayea | reload(sys) # WTF? Otherwise setdefaultencoding doesn't work | 19:35 |
| paroneayea | ;) | 19:35 |
| nyergler | OMFG | 19:35 |
| nyergler | of COURSE setdefaultencoding doesn't work! it's deleted by site.py | 19:35 |
| * nyergler looks in the python docs so he can be pedantic | 19:36 | |
| paroneayea | hehhh | 19:36 |
| nyergler | right: | 19:36 |
| nyergler | This function is only intended to be used by the site module implementation and, where needed, by sitecustomize. Once used by the site module, it is removed from the sys module’s namespace. | 19:36 |
| paroneayea | yeah I know :) | 19:36 |
| nyergler | right, sorry, i'm over my mini-tantrum | 19:36 |
| paroneayea | although, that looks like maybe it's some way to set setdefaultencoding after site.py deletes it | 19:36 |
| paroneayea | didn't know that trick | 19:37 |
| nyergler | yeah, it's pretty evil though -- i'm betting it wouldn't be thread safe | 19:37 |
| paroneayea | yes, pretty evil | 19:37 |
| nyergler | ok | 19:37 |
| paroneayea | guessing their code doesn't explicitly decode to utf-8 everywhere | 19:38 |
| nyergler | one second, i want to find the source tree for the tx client, see where that script comes from | 19:38 |
| paroneayea | sounds like other codebases I've seen somewhere! ;) | 19:38 |
| nyergler | (i suppose it makes sense that they need to do different encodings since they're doing translation) | 19:38 |
| nyergler | heh | 19:38 |
| nyergler | the evil part? ;) | 19:38 |
| nyergler | paroneayea: what's the pypi name for the client? | 19:39 |
| paroneayea | transifex-client | 19:40 |
| nyergler | paroneayea: ugh | 19:42 |
| nyergler | that is totally disgusting | 19:42 |
| nyergler | not totally, sorry, i saw Burlesque this weekend, brought out the drama queen in me | 19:42 |
| nyergler | Cher does that | 19:42 |
| nyergler | anyway | 19:42 |
| paroneayea | haha | 19:42 |
| nyergler | it does look like they're using the old syntax for the script, and keeping the code outside the package | 19:43 |
| nyergler | :/ | 19:43 |
| nyergler | http://code.indifex.com/transifex-client/src | 19:43 |
| paroneayea | nyergler: well that's easy enough to fix. I could write a patch for it and see if they respond within the week | 19:43 |
| nyergler | paroneayea: yeah, i think the patch does the following: | 19:44 |
| nyergler | 1) moves the main function into the txclient package (maybe a cli.py module?) | 19:44 |
| nyergler | 2) keeps tx in the tree but just calls into the package in __main__ | 19:44 |
| nyergler | 3) defines the console-script entry point | 19:44 |
| nyergler | so that setup.py has both definitions | 19:44 |
| paroneayea | sounds good, and pretty simple | 19:45 |
| nyergler | right, 30 minutes? | 19:45 |
| nyergler | i'd just for on bitbucket, then make a merge request | 19:45 |
| paroneayea | + time for me to stumble my way through hg, at least ;) | 19:45 |
| nyergler | make it super easy for them, and in the meantime use our forked repo to make an egg | 19:45 |
| nyergler | :) | 19:45 |
| nyergler | reasonable? | 19:46 |
| paroneayea | yeah | 19:46 |
| CC_Hudson | Yippie, build fixed! | 19:53 |
| CC_Hudson | Project deedscraper build (62): FIXED in 2 min 39 sec: http://code.creativecommons.org/hudson/job/deedscraper/62/ | 19:53 |
| CC_Hudson | JED3: Forcing metadata uniqueness before displaying info | 19:53 |
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| nkinkade | paroneayea: So I think I've got the tx CLI worked out for now. | 21:46 |
| paroneayea | nkinkade: oh yeah? | 21:46 |
| nkinkade | Basically, I don't thing there is anything you need to do. | 21:46 |
| paroneayea | wunderbar news | 21:47 |
| paroneayea | nkinkade: so by you got it worked out | 21:48 |
| paroneayea | what did you do / have you done? | 21:48 |
| nkinkade | paroneayea: The only thing we'll need to coordinate is how we push new stuff up to Tx.net. | 21:48 |
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| paroneayea | ok.. | 21:51 |
| paroneayea | did you put it on a cronjob somewhere? | 21:51 |
| nkinkade | paroneayea: I haven't set up a cron job yet. | 21:52 |
| nkinkade | It's on a7 /home/cronuser/transifex.net_i18n_checkout | 21:52 |
| nkinkade | That's a clone of git/i18n, and there is a tx CLI config file that seems pull from Tx.net just fine. | 21:53 |
| nkinkade | I haven't tried a push. | 21:53 |
| nkinkade | paroneayea: Really, there is no reason that you have to use that clone to do anything. | 21:54 |
| nkinkade | I suppose you're free to push new strings to Tx.net from your own checkout somewhere else. | 21:54 |
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| paroneayea | oyhhh | 21:55 |
| nkinkade | paroneayea: I suppose the best bet for us will be to use that single clone if we can, just for the sake of consistency. | 21:55 |
| paroneayea | nkinkade: I was wondering how you set it up when we couldn't get tx as a script to work with buildout yet | 21:55 |
| nkinkade | And to pull from Tx.net via cron job, but to push manually. | 21:55 |
| paroneayea | you just easy_installed to the global site-packages ;) | 21:56 |
| nkinkade | paroneayea: Why do you need buildout to work with tx? | 21:56 |
| paroneayea | nkinkade: well theoretically we want the scripts that work with our packages to be accessible from a self-contained buildout... | 21:56 |
| nkinkade | This clone of i18n will be used to pull down translations from Tx.net and push them to our repo. | 21:56 |
| nkinkade | So can't your buildout process just continue to work directly from our git repo and forget about Tx.net? | 21:57 |
| paroneayea | kk | 21:57 |
| nkinkade | paroneayea: Am I wrong? | 21:57 |
| nkinkade | I feel like nothing will need to change at all about how buildout works with regard to i18n. | 21:57 |
| paroneayea | nkinkade: I mean, the transifex-client package | 21:57 |
| paroneayea | I just meant the tx script | 21:58 |
| paroneayea | it's not a big deal | 21:58 |
| nkinkade | What about it? | 21:58 |
| paroneayea | well normally we'd access it from | 21:58 |
| paroneayea | i18n-checkout/bin/tx | 21:58 |
| paroneayea | is how we normally do things | 21:58 |
| paroneayea | (anyway, that's why I made those patches to transifex-client) | 21:59 |
| nkinkade | paroneayea: Okay, that's fine and I understand that, but I'm confused why you're wanting/needing to involve tx in the buildout at all? You mentioned on #transifex that you wrote some patches even. | 21:59 |
| nkinkade | As far as I know, your processes go on just like before, not needing to know anything about Tx.net or the tx CLI. | 21:59 |
| paroneayea | because presumably the tx script is populated via buildout | 21:59 |
| paroneayea | yes | 22:00 |
| paroneayea | I didn't mean the buildout that's set up currently | 22:00 |
| paroneayea | I just meant | 22:00 |
| paroneayea | instead of having the tx cli available globally ohn the system, it would be part of the scripts buildout sets up in bin/ | 22:00 |
| paroneayea | so that's why I made the patches | 22:00 |
| paroneayea | because their setup didn't allow for it | 22:00 |
| nkinkade | paroneayea: But my question is why you'd even want to include in i18n/bin in the first place? | 22:01 |
| paroneayea | nkinkade: well because I assumed that's how we'd do it, because normally we want a package and all its tools included in the buildout | 22:01 |
| paroneayea | nkinkade: but anyway, it doesn't have to happen that way | 22:01 |
| paroneayea | doing it system-wide is fine | 22:01 |
| nkinkade | paroneayea: I think we've got a disconnect here. | 22:02 |
| paroneayea | haha, probably | 22:02 |
| nkinkade | Let me clarify, maybe. In what way does your buildout script need to have any awareness of Transifex, whether it be Tx.net, the CLI, or otherwise? | 22:03 |
| paroneayea | I'm having a hard time explaining this in a way that's not what I said | 22:03 |
| paroneayea | nkinkade: because I assumed that we *wanted* it that way. It's not critical to the package, but normally we package tools *like* tx with the buildout | 22:03 |
| paroneayea | it keeps things self-contained to a buildout | 22:03 |
| paroneayea | but it's not *necessary* if you're okay with doing system packages, but as a rule in general we tend to avoid system packages for python things | 22:04 |
| paroneayea | I think if I say anything else I'm going to run back in a circle | 22:04 |
| paroneayea | (I already have I think) | 22:04 |
| paroneayea | anyway it doesn't hurt to help them have those packages, so they can use the more modern setup of using entry point based scripts | 22:05 |
| paroneayea | er, those patches, not packages | 22:05 |
| paroneayea | anyway! | 22:05 |
| paroneayea | that's all I have to say. | 22:05 |
| nkinkade | Okay, so your buildout won't change at all and nothing in the i18n package will communicate with or care at all about Transifex, right? | 22:05 |
| paroneayea | nkinkade: for now :) | 22:05 |
| paroneayea | eventually I might make tx available in bin/ | 22:05 |
| paroneayea | in case they accept my patches and also it ends up being useful for me to be able to push things from my end | 22:06 |
| paroneayea | push new translations I mean | 22:06 |
| nkinkade | Okay, cool. | 22:06 |
| paroneayea | yay, conversation resolved ;) | 22:06 |
| nkinkade | I can see the utility of being able to push new strings from any checkout. | 22:06 |
| akozak | what the heck is hal doing at the beginning of this video tility of being able to push new strings from any checkout. | 22:23 |
| akozak | err | 22:23 |
| akozak | http://labs.creativecommons.org/videos/tech-summit-dec-2008/ | 22:23 |
| paroneayea | akozak: you sound like a markov bot | 22:24 |
| akozak | ha | 22:24 |
| akozak | odd paste problem | 22:24 |
| akozak | no really though, the beginning of that video is odd | 22:24 |
| nyergler | yes | 22:32 |
| nyergler | it was odd to be there, too | 22:32 |
| akozak | haha | 22:32 |
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| luisv | boo. | 22:44 |
| paroneayea | yo luisv | 22:44 |
| luisv | Am I making this up, or did some of the CC 3 licenses have "also compatible with reciprocal licenses" clauses? | 22:44 |
| paroneayea | luisv: I'm not sure what you mean by that | 22:47 |
| luisv | I may be making it up :) | 22:48 |
| * paroneayea summons greg-g | 22:48 | |
| luisv | but I seem to recall that one of the SA licenses, at one point (maybe 2.0 and removed in 3.0?) had language that said something to the effect of "you can use this content under the CC license it was published under, or under other licenses if they also allow compatibility with CC" | 22:48 |
| paroneayea | luisv: do you mean http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/legalcode 4b? | 22:50 |
| paroneayea | I think it's standard copyleft in that the end-result derivative work ends up having to be able to be by-sa 3.0 basically | 22:51 |
| luisv | 4(a)(iv) | 22:52 |
| luisv | I mean | 22:52 |
| luisv | 4(b)(iv) | 22:52 |
| luisv | and 1(c) | 22:52 |
| luisv | which I was not finding in my copy of CC-SA | 22:52 |
| luisv | because I was looking at CC-BY :( | 22:52 |
| akozak | :) | 22:52 |
| paroneayea | :D | 22:52 |
| akozak | luisv, yea it only appears in by-sa | 22:52 |
| akozak | also see 1.c. | 22:52 |
| luisv | right | 22:53 |
| luisv | perfect, thanks. | 22:53 |
| paroneayea | I like 4b iv's phrasing of Creative Commons Compatible License | 22:53 |
| paroneayea | it sounds like | 22:53 |
| paroneayea | the CC Compatible License, 3.0 | 22:53 |
| luisv | ouch | 22:53 |
| luisv | that could be confusing | 22:53 |
| * paroneayea shouldn't spread confusions probably :D | 22:54 | |
| * luisv idly wonders if MPL would qualify | 22:54 | |
| paroneayea | luisv: MPL is still a per-file copyleft isn't it? | 22:55 |
| paroneayea | that'd be interesting but it sounds a lot to me like that recent identi.ca conversation on how-feasible-would-it-be-to-make-cc-by-sa-and-gpl-compatible | 22:55 |
| paroneayea | (that's a lot of hyphens) | 22:55 |
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| paroneayea | which bkuhn seems to think at least that there's no way to do that with two copylefts without explicitly stating "these two copylefts are compatible, I have decreed it" in the license | 22:56 |
| paroneayea | (iirc) | 22:56 |
| * paroneayea looks up that conversation again | 22:57 | |
| paroneayea | luisv: if you haven't read it, waste some time productively: https://identi.ca/conversation/57781943 :) | 22:58 |
| paroneayea | monster thread | 22:58 |
| luisv | I had started it ages ago | 23:00 |
| luisv | did not realize how long it got | 23:00 |
| paroneayea | http://identi.ca/conversation/57781943#notice-58517444 | 23:00 |
| paroneayea | there we go | 23:00 |
| luisv | yes, useful, thanks | 23:01 |
| paroneayea | luisv: actually GPL and MPL compatibility come up in there | 23:02 |
| paroneayea | MPL comes up a few times, text search for it! | 23:03 |
| luisv | yeah | 23:04 |
| luisv | I had seen some of those | 23:04 |
| luisv | hadn't realized they were all technically part of the same thread | 23:05 |
| luisv | brad lost me when he claimed it would be trivial to state MPL as a set of exceptions to GPL | 23:05 |
| luisv | I don't think anyone at FSF realizes that LGPL 3 is unreadable | 23:05 |
| paroneayea | best part of that whole thing is how it started as a joke | 23:05 |
| paroneayea | luisv: lol | 23:05 |
| nyergler | (btw, iirc the compatibility in 3.0 requires us to evaluate another license and say, "yes, this is compatible") | 23:05 |
| luisv | (and of course, he's not the only one to say 'just write it as GPL exceptions- it'll be easy') | 23:06 |
| luisv | (somehow none of those people has gone and done it) | 23:06 |
| luisv | nyergler: yes | 23:06 |
| luisv | nyergler: which no one has done | 23:06 |
| nyergler | right | 23:06 |
| nyergler | (sorry if that came up already, i didn't read the entire scrollback) | 23:06 |
| nyergler | nkinkade: is upgrading WP on labs on your task list? | 23:06 |
| nkinkade | nyergler: Funny you should ask. I just logged into a7 to upgrade labs not 30 seconds ago. | 23:07 |
| nyergler | :) | 23:07 |
| nkinkade | Weird timing. | 23:07 |
| luisv | "cross-copyleft compatibility is area of active research by best minds in #http://identi.ca/tag/copyleft thought;Answer's unknown,but clearly non-trivial" | 23:07 |
| luisv | heh | 23:07 |
| luisv | nyergler: the passage was referred to | 23:07 |
| paroneayea | active research by world's leading copyleft scientists | 23:07 |
| * luisv puts on white labcoat, pulls out flasks full of bubbling liquids | 23:08 | |
| luisv | nyergler: some folks at OSI have suggested we put similar clauses in MPL 2 | 23:08 |
| nyergler | ah | 23:08 |
| paroneayea | //// | 23:08 |
| paroneayea | /o-o-\ - We need to keep the | 23:08 |
| paroneayea | \ = / accelerator at full capacity, | 23:08 |
| paroneayea | /|-/| \ or else we'll all perish in | 23:08 |
| luisv | nyergler: but the face that no one has taken advantage of it in the CC case makes me leery | 23:08 |
| paroneayea | |\| |/| | the resulting fallout! | 23:08 |
| nyergler | luisv: don't cross the streams | 23:09 |
| nyergler | luisv: i suppose the thought experiment is, has no one done it for BY-SA because we have a dominant position in non-software public licenses? | 23:10 |
| nyergler | or because no one cares in any context? | 23:10 |
| nyergler | (ie, would people be more anxious with software since there's more competition) | 23:10 |
| luisv | nyergler: I think my intuition is the latter, but if anyone in your org thinks it is the former, or has any other intuitions on the matter, I'd love to hear it | 23:10 |
| paroneayea | well the foss gaming community cares, but nobody cares about the foss gaming community :( | 23:12 |
| * paroneayea stares grumpily at the schrodinger's box of game code/data | 23:12 | |
| nyergler | luisv: just asked mlinksva | 23:13 |
| nyergler | he pointed out the motivation behind that clause was getting to GFDL compatibility | 23:13 |
| nyergler | which we got in other ways | 23:13 |
| greg-g | luisv: I assume the reason I was summoned before is clear now (the reciprocal license thing) | 23:13 |
| luisv | greg-g: yeah | 23:14 |
| luisv | greg-g: thanks anyway :) | 23:14 |
| luisv | nyergler: ah, indeed | 23:15 |
| paroneayea | greg-g: I also summoned you to test my latest summoning spell | 23:15 |
| paroneayea | that you did not appear as a half-toad is evidence of its success | 23:15 |
| paroneayea | \'. | 23:15 |
| paroneayea | \ '. | 23:15 |
| paroneayea | \ \ | 23:15 |
| paroneayea | _L__L_ | 23:15 |
| paroneayea | //~ ~ | 23:16 |
| paroneayea | G > | 23:16 |
| paroneayea | / \\\\-------.__ * * * * | 23:16 |
| paroneayea | / ' \\\______ |T * MAGIC * | 23:16 |
| paroneayea | | \ \\ \| * * * * | 23:16 |
| * paroneayea thinks it is soon time to stop working on CC stuff and time to start working on making a snowman | 23:16 | |
| greg-g | paroneayea: snowman! jealous! we barely got a dusting here today | 23:16 |
| greg-g | paroneayea: and thanks for not making me a half-toad | 23:17 |
| paroneayea | no problem | 23:17 |
| * luisv finally groks the Collection/Adaptation distinction | 23:17 | |
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| *** erlehmann has quit IRC | 23:28 | |
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