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| nkinkade | paroneayea: Do you happen to know if there is a way to select "None of the above" on the chooser via a query parameter? | 15:52 |
|---|---|---|
| nkinkade | ... sort like lang=? | 15:53 |
| nkinkade | I can select other jurisdictions by passing &jurisdiction=nl, for example, but not the Unported. | 15:53 |
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| ea4xgr | nathany: hi. I've started to rewrite the validator (= extractor) from scratch. I'm using my own hosting for this. | 16:40 |
| ea4xgr | http://git.robABCert.gust-barABCdon.org/index.cgi/extractor/ is the git repository | 16:41 |
| ea4xgr | http://extractor.robABCert.gust-barABCdon.org/ is the Web application (runs the source code found in the repository) | 16:42 |
| ea4xgr | I've also played with the VirtualBox OSE and Ubuntu 9.10 (Minimal and Standard) in order to see how much space does the current version of the validator require | 16:45 |
| ea4xgr | it turned out that the required Ubuntu packages are 79.7 MB (in case of the minimal installation) and 29.0 MB (in case of the standard installation); the installed validator.git is 83 MB more | 16:46 |
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| nathany | ea4xgr, interesting; I wonder why it takes more space when on a standard installation | 17:46 |
| nathany | not sure why that'd impact the dependency graph | 17:46 |
| ea4xgr | nathany: standard takes 29+83 (where 83 are mostly the eggs) | 17:46 |
| ea4xgr | minimal 79.7+83; these are the figures are came up with | 17:47 |
| nathany | ea4xgr, oh, i see; you're just counting the packages that need to be installed (79.7 for minimal)? | 17:47 |
| ea4xgr | yes | 17:47 |
| nathany | got it | 17:47 |
| nathany | ea4xgr, you might look at using something light-weight like webob for your request/response objects; it can help clean things up so you're not creating your HTTP headers by hand :) | 17:50 |
| ea4xgr | http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/999/nszrxv2i3v9xy3r2pvcim6a.png | 17:53 |
| ea4xgr | nathany: I assume you've taken a look at extractor/ARCHITECTURE | 17:55 |
| ea4xgr | nathany: my objective now is to use the standard Python 3 library to the maximum extent, even if it would result in, say, 50% more code | 17:56 |
| ea4xgr | nathany: should some parts prove really impractical to write from scratch, a dependency will be used | 17:57 |
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| * ea4xgr is rewriting http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Rewrite_Metadata_Validator/SoC_2008/IRC_Scanner to Python now | 18:01 | |
| nathany | ea4xgr, just read it | 18:08 |
| ea4xgr | nathany: I think starting from a Web app is a wrong way to go | 18:08 |
| nathany | ea4xgr, i thought that's why you split it into libvalidator v. validator last time around, so that the web app bits were isolated | 18:09 |
| ea4xgr | nathany: more like: CLI, Web service, Web application, GUI (or GUI before to the Web service stage) | 18:09 |
| ea4xgr | nathany: yes, but I'm referring to user/machine interfaces now | 18:09 |
| nathany | i see | 18:10 |
| ea4xgr | nathany: we encourage people to use XHTML+RDFa, but the current validator does not event state license information that way | 18:10 |
| ea4xgr | s/event/even/ | 18:10 |
| nathany | i'm going to go out on a limb and say that writing 50% more code instead of using a well known dependency is not what i'd consider a best practice | 18:10 |
| nathany | ea4xgr, right, the existing implementation is not perfect | 18:11 |
| ea4xgr | nathany: the other way round we end up in 100 MB Web app boiling down to two files that are real contribution (one almost trivial - the Web app validation controller) | 18:11 |
| ea4xgr | nathany: I think pyRdfa may still be essential, but this whole Pylons/Genshi/mysql (?) dependencies are way off | 18:12 |
| nathany | mysql is pulled in via rdflib, iirc, so if you want to pull license information from the RDF, you may still get that in the graph | 18:13 |
| ea4xgr | yes, required packages are libmysqlclient16 and mysql-common... | 18:13 |
| nathany | ea4xgr, required by... ? it might be interesting to use one of the dependency analysis tools to see what python deps are actually needed | 18:14 |
| nathany | (and by what) | 18:14 |
| ea4xgr | I've manually installed each required (Ubuntu) package one by one to see what's going on | 18:14 |
| ea4xgr | I think I've got the log somewhere | 18:15 |
| ea4xgr | nathany: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=wRHC1BKh | 18:17 |
| nathany | ah, right, librdf | 18:17 |
| ea4xgr | nathany: would it be possible to use rdflib instead of librdf? | 18:17 |
| nathany | (not rdflib) | 18:17 |
| nathany | ea4xgr, possibly; iirc rdflib has weaker SPARQL support, so that might be an issue | 18:17 |
| nathany | i haven't looked closely in a while | 18:18 |
| ea4xgr | please note that we end up using rdflib in the eggs regardless of the python-librdf dependency | 18:18 |
| nathany | rdfadict may declare it as a dependency | 18:18 |
| nathany | are you including gcc and git-core in your size analysis? | 18:18 |
| ea4xgr | git-core - yes, as the required package in both minimal and standard; gcc - only in minimal, since it ships in the standard | 18:19 |
| nathany | i see | 18:20 |
| ea4xgr | excluding git-core and gcc, we have 13.6+5.3+7.0=25.9 MB | 18:20 |
| ea4xgr | (for Ubuntu packages alone) | 18:21 |
| ea4xgr | (for standard Ubuntu) | 18:21 |
| ea4xgr | nathany: cc.licenserdf requires rdflib 2.4.0 or newer | 18:22 |
| ea4xgr | I'm going to check rdfadict | 18:22 |
| ea4xgr | yes, it also requires rdfadict | 18:23 |
| ea4xgr | and then cc.license requires python-librdf | 18:24 |
| ea4xgr | so, basically, cc.license requires both librdf and rdflib (through cc.licenserdf) | 18:25 |
| ea4xgr | why so? | 18:25 |
| nathany | ea4xgr, iirc we use rdflib where possible because it's pure python and easily installed as an egg; we use librdf in cc.license because we need fuller SPARQL support | 18:25 |
| ea4xgr | pyRdfa is also dependent on rdflib | 18:27 |
| ea4xgr | are there any alternatives to rdflib and librdf when it comes to SPARQL? | 18:30 |
| ea4xgr | maybe fyzz? | 18:30 |
| nathany | those are the two i'm most familiar with; not familiar with fyzz | 18:31 |
| nathany | logilab seems borked right now, can't read up on it | 18:31 |
| ea4xgr | http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=1QS3a079 | 18:32 |
| ea4xgr | there's an exemplary code at the bottom | 18:33 |
| nathany | interesting | 18:33 |
| nathany | looks like it only handles parsing, though, right? | 18:33 |
| ea4xgr | well, in fact they're post parsing, as they get to the abstract syntax tree | 18:33 |
| nathany | right, but it doesn't actually return a result set was my point | 18:34 |
| ea4xgr | yes, you're right | 18:34 |
| ea4xgr | a kind of library that could power rdflib or librdf, not end-user apps | 18:35 |
| nathany | right | 18:35 |
| nkinkade | mralex: That England-Wales flag looks bizarre. :-) | 18:35 |
| nkinkade | But I'm going to stay out of that one. | 18:35 |
| mralex | nkinkade: i know. ;) | 18:36 |
| nkinkade | Hey mralex, speaking of flags ... Mike mentioned that he thought you had a mock-up of an "international" flag. Is that right? | 18:39 |
| mralex | nkinkade: yeah, i'm working on it | 18:39 |
| nkinkade | Ah, cool. | 18:39 |
| mralex | also turns out the UN flag doesn't scale well. | 18:40 |
| ea4xgr | html5lib+pyRdfa (html5lib dep.)+rdflib (no dep.) = 998 KiB in total | 18:45 |
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| ea4xgr | we're using cc.license to provide some extra information about the extracted CC license (most likely stated by an URI); I dunno if this is essential, since by simply following this URIs, the user would see the deed which states everything we do now and more (title, permissions w/ icons, conditions w/ icons, link to legal, etc.) | 18:49 |
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| ea4xgr | nathany: do python-dev and libxslt-dev dependencies come from rdflib, librdf, or from something else? | 18:56 |
| ea4xgr | nathany: I recall that I've got a compilation error due to the lack of these packages | 18:57 |
| ea4xgr | I'll check one more time | 18:57 |
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| nathany | ea4xgr, librdf, probably | 19:00 |
| nathany | if you're compiling c extensions you need to have the python headers installed | 19:00 |
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| ea4xgr | nathany: it's rdflib, not librdf | 19:09 |
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| ea4xgr | so rdflib is not pure Python either, since it relies on bison to obtain the SPARQL parser | 19:41 |
| ea4xgr | maybe if they replace the Bison parser with fyzz, the software would become a pure Python library (w/ no reliance on gcc) | 19:43 |
| ea4xgr | fyzz uses a lexer and a parser generated by ANTLR and a Python antlr3 runtime | 19:49 |
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| * ea4xgr has finished porting http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Rewrite_Metadata_Validator/SoC_2008/IRC_Scanner into Python 2.6 and Python 3.1 | 21:13 | |
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| nathany | mralex, http://i.imgur.com/9Ykqh.jpg | 21:53 |
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| d00b | nathany, the missin 1 is flash , m i rite ?? | 21:56 |
| nathany | d00b, yup :) | 21:56 |
| ea4xgr | nathany: thanks for the tip re: git. do you want me to reply via mail to such letters (if you expect reply at all) or on Freenode? | 22:03 |
| ea4xgr | d00b: hi! what's up? | 22:03 |
| nathany | ea4xgr, no preference, just figured it was easier to forward that commit log to you so you had some more context :) | 22:04 |
| d00b | ea4xgr, I'm fine ..how u doing ?? | 22:04 |
| ea4xgr | d00b: fine, thank you :) | 22:05 |
| ea4xgr | nathany: I do receive any git-related e-mails, maybe that's because a) you're a git admin b) I've provided a fake e-mail address to git? | 22:05 |
| nathany | ea4xgr, they go out to an email list, cc-commits (I can find the signup if you're interested) | 22:06 |
| ea4xgr | nathany: anyway, I've been experimenting much with git lately, so I've done things like reset --hard, commit --amend, push origin +master, etc. | 22:06 |
| ea4xgr | I was not aware that my changes result in any e‐mails | 22:06 |
| nathany | ea4xgr, right; those are all really powerful commands, good to know how to use them, but when you've already pushed they can cause problems | 22:07 |
| d00b | ea4xgr, how's ur gsoc work is going on ? tuf competition dis time and even tougher for me | 22:07 |
| nathany | i don't mind the emails, just trying to offer some feedback on best practices; fwiw :) | 22:07 |
| ea4xgr | d00b: the GSoC is not started yet, so I cannot be doing any GSoC work, but I do work on the project that I've proposed to extend under the GSoC umbrella | 22:08 |
| ea4xgr | nathany: thank you, your feedback is much appreciated :) | 22:08 |
| ea4xgr | d00b: “even tougher”? why's that? I remember reading your CV and I was utmost impressed—fwiw, my “achievements” are nowhere near yours, not to mention that I'm like three years older than you; I know that bright future is awaiting for you; keep up the good work :) | 22:11 |
| ea4xgr | nathany: why does this mailing list: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-metadata have an awesome interface, whereas http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/cc-devel/ looks so humble? | 22:13 |
| nathany | ea4xgr, because cc-metadata has custom html to make it look like our website did in 2004 :) (hence why there are two jurisdictions under "icommons") | 22:14 |
| ea4xgr | ah, ok :) | 22:14 |
| d00b | ea4xgr, my project proposal is clashing with other guy, I really worked hard, but still It all depend on mentors, gsoc slot n other stuff , I can just hope for the best n I already started my work, so that I don't left any stone unchew | 22:15 |
| ea4xgr | d00b: ok, I see your point; it's great that you've already started | 22:17 |
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| ea4xgr | d00b: do you publish the current work anywhere (cc git or cc svn)? | 22:18 |
| d00b | ea4xgr, nopes.. I read the entire code from previous year gsoc ...will start shifting the code to OOo 3.x from tomm itself.. | 22:19 |
| d00b | ea4xgr, I lost 7 days in between for my GRE :( :( | 22:19 |
| ea4xgr | good idea | 22:19 |
| ea4xgr | the Graduate Record Examination? | 22:20 |
| d00b | ea4xgr, yes | 22:22 |
| ea4xgr | d00b: where does your summer break start? | 22:23 |
| ea4xgr | d00b: 'cause GSoC is tailored to the US summer break, you know | 22:24 |
| ea4xgr | d00b: for instance, summer break in .pl is July 1st-Aug 31st (or Sep 30th if you've passed all the exams in June) | 22:24 |
| ea4xgr | s/where/when/ | 22:25 |
| d00b | ea4xgr, I will apply for US next year, and rite now I'm free | 22:25 |
| ea4xgr | sounds like a plan | 22:25 |
| ea4xgr | :) | 22:25 |
| d00b | ea4xgr, long term plan , let see whether I'm successful or not, I will invest my gsoc money for applying to US Univ. (If I got selected :) ) | 22:26 |
| ea4xgr | I say, this could be one of the greatest investments of your life | 22:28 |
| ea4xgr | gsoc money in .pl is what the stipend that a doctoral student gets from the government (to support himself) for 11 months in total | 22:29 |
| d00b | ea4xgr, let c how it turns out to be, all depend on GSOC for my funding | 22:30 |
| ea4xgr | :) | 22:30 |
| d00b | ea4xgr, and at the same time gsoc has lifted the no of contributers 4 open source to great extend :) :) | 22:30 |
| ea4xgr | I wish that was true, but, as far as I know, although this is the main goal of Google (when it comes to GSoC), they've failed in this regard (in general) | 22:32 |
| ea4xgr | I'm referring to post-GSoC students-contributors | 22:32 |
| ea4xgr | in general, students do not stick to the organisation after they get the last instalment, sad but true | 22:33 |
| ea4xgr | not to suggest that I was in anyway different in these terms | 22:34 |
| ea4xgr | s/anyway/any way/ | 22:36 |
| d00b | ea4xgr, what's ur thesis for ur doctoral studies ?? | 22:36 |
| ea4xgr | I develop an architectural style for a Web application that would be targeting thin and thick clients architectures at the same time | 22:37 |
| ea4xgr | -architectures | 22:37 |
| d00b | ea4xgr, great thesis.. so how much u completed, I think u started ur work on 2007 , so whn ur thesis defense ?? | 22:38 |
| ea4xgr | to put it simple (though inaccurate), thin client would be the one w/ a JavaScript engine disabled, so no Ajax etc. | 22:38 |
| ea4xgr | the goal is the following: a Web developer writes an application for a thin client according to this architectural style I develop; then he/she runs a compiler and obtains a thick client (Ajax-powered) version of the application without any additional effort/programming | 22:39 |
| ea4xgr | I can discuss this in any detail, if you want to (maybe better on XMPP since it's unrelated to Creative Commons) | 22:40 |
| d00b | ea4xgr, I will certainly talk 2 u on ur thesis.. | 22:41 |
| d00b | later on :) :) | 22:41 |
| ea4xgr | ea4xgr: the doctoral studies last 4 years in Poland, I hope to defend the thesis at the end of those 4 years (which is September 2011 in my case) | 22:41 |
| d00b | best of luck frm my side :) :) | 22:41 |
| ea4xgr | thank you very much :) | 22:41 |
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